FBI Must Reveal The Code It Used To Hack Dark Web Pedophiles (engadget.com)

schwit1 writes: A judge has ordered the Federal Bureau of Investigation to turn over the complete code it used to infiltrate a child pornography site on the Dark Web, Motherboard reports. The FBI seized the Tor-based site known as "Playpen" in February 2015 and kept it running via its own servers for two weeks -- during this time, the bureau deployed a hacking tool that identified at least 1,300 IP addresses of visitors to the site worldwide.

Playpen was "the largest remaining known child pornography hidden service in the world," according to the FBI. Roughly 137 people have been charged in the sting so far, Motherboard says. On Wednesday, a lawyer for one of the defendants won the right to view all of the code that the FBI used during the Playpen operation, apparently including the exploit that bypassed the Tor Browser's security features.

Comments

FBI not in trouble?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the bigger story here is that the FBI actually ran a child porn site instead of knocking it offline... WTF. We all understand the premise of why they did it but that can't be a legal way to catch those people. You can't break the law to uphold the law. That's an oxymoron right?

Re:FBI not in trouble?

[dgatwood]

Its no different to an undercover cop pretending to be a drug dealer and engaging in a drug deal so the hidden cops can spring forth and bust the bad guy.

Uh, it isn't even similar. In a sting operation, the operation ends when the person buys the drugs. The purpose is to get them to buy the drugs, but at that point, they arrest the person. In this case, they download the fake porn that tattles on them, but they also continue to download real porn from systems run by the government, upload new porn to systems run by the government, and trade porn in a marketplace run by the government over an extended period of time.

This is more closely equivalent to a rogue CIA agent infiltrating a drug cartel and then continuing to run it for a decade, growing and selling drugs, killing members of competing cartels, and advertising the availability of drugs in an effort to entice (entrap) people who otherwise might not have bought them, all under the pretense that while his or her organization deals drugs, he or she will also periodically slip the police a list of some of the people who are buying so that they can eventually do a sting operation and bust them....

This is so far outside the bounds of what should legitimately be legal in a free society that it is downright terrifying. There's a bright line between pretending to be part of a criminal organization and participating in the operation of a criminal organization, and from what I've read about this operation, I would say that they crossed that line by a large enough distance that they couldn't even see it in their rearview mirrors....

Re:FBI not in trouble?

[Anonymous Coward]

So does the mob that hangs the politicians.

Re:FBI not in trouble?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lying isn't illegal in and of itself.

It depends upon who lies to whom. Lying to an FBI agent investigating a crime is itself a crime. That's what they got Martha Stewart on, not the actual insider stock trade but lying to investigators about her level of involvement in the scheme. That's why any competent attorney will advise their client never to answer questions unless the attorney is present and able to advise the client on whether or not to answer a particular question and the advice to the client, when answering, will always be to answer truthfully or else refuse to answer the question on 5th amendment grounds. Of course the investigators are free to lie or trick the person being interviewed which is what makes speaking to the police without an attorney present so incredibly dangerous that nobody should ever do it.

Suggestion for submissions

[Anonymous Coward]

Submissions should preferably link to primary sources instead of sites that just repackage the story from the original, i.e. just link to Motherboard's article to begin with and give them the clicks instead of Engadget.

Could the FBI hide behind 3rd party code?

[swb]

Let's say the FBI wanted to do some task with software, but didn't have the expertise in house. So they discuss what they want done with a third party, who decides they can do it but will only license the software to the FBI, not sell it to them outright. As part of their agreement, they supply a binary module (like a graphics driver blob file) to the FBI they can interface with.

Now, the FBI ends up being required to reveal its code to a defendant. The third party module ends up being key to the defendant's discovery. The FBI doesn't have the source code to the module, so they can't supply it -- in fact, they have a binding contract saying they can only have the binary module.

Does the third party have to reveal their source code? Can the FBI effectively hide behind their contract with the third party?

If yes, it seems kind of scary -- the FBI can basically outsource their techniques and then hide behind their contracts. Scary because I would imagine the defendants might be making a case that the evidence convicting them is false, but because the FBI could hide behind a third party contract, the defendant can't verify the claims. The FBI, could, in theory at least, use sham agreements to ensure their dirty work remains beyond discovery.

The similar kinds of things I can think of are the DWI cases that were challenged over the source code to breathalyzers and the contract language of at least one of the Stingray makers who forbid the details of their device being revealed.

Re:Could the FBI hide behind 3rd party code?

[JoeRandomHacker]

Possibly, but the defense has the right to question how the evidence against them was collected. If such a tactic were to prevent such inquiry, it could be grounds to have the evidence tossed out.

Sexual deviants today, political deviants tomorrow

[MindPrison]

This is all just a game.

FBI have no real interest in the sexual deviants, they only want the tools and to be allowed to use the tools for whatever they want. The entire stings are public pleasers, get whoever the public have decided to hate this decennial and get the tools to get EVERYONE (not only the sexual deviants), but eventually when they LEGALLY got whatever tools they want - so NO one is safe, regardless of belief, creed, sexual orientation or political beliefs - the point is they want access to whatever you do, think and consider, every opinion that you have - so this can be used against you in a world with more and more rules, the masses being ruled by the few that wants it all.