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Cheap, High-Performance Green Battery Runs On Rotten Apples (gizmag.com)

Zothecula writes: Researchers at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) have repurposed discarded apples to build cheap and high-performance sodium-ion batteries, making a green technology even greener. The advance could find use in grid storage and, after further development, compete with lithium-ion cells to power portable electronics and low-end electric cars.

89 comments

  1. I wonder by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Funny

    How would this compare to using discarded oranges.

    1. Re:I wonder by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, there's no comparison!

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:I wonder by sconeu · · Score: 1

      But in this case one GOOD apple spoils the rest....

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:I wonder by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      Naw, "antique citrus" as the industry prefers to call it, is better suited to solar cells.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    4. Re:I wonder by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      Same here. Is there something special about apples? Would it work with pears or guavas too? TFA mentions "hard carbon" as an enabling factor, but doesn't explain why. A google search turns up a paper on the subject, which says, "Hard carbon is found to be less prone to passivation due to the high electrochemical stability of the ionic liquid." (I'm not quite sure what that means, but it sounds cool.)

      In any case, I'm always happy to see more folks making more advances in battery tech. Elon is blazing a trail with the Giga-Factory, but there's a whole bunch of others lining up in the wings. I think we're going to see a 'boom' in this sector in the next few years.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    5. Re:I wonder by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Oh, there's no comparison!

      This is Slashdot. Apples get compared to oranges all the time here. :-P

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    6. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? On Slashdot people are usually saying that Apples are all lemons.

    7. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm not sure in which state Karlsruhe is, but once again: Kudos to our world-class American Engineering!

    8. Re: I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the state of Germany...

    9. Re: I wonder by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 3, Funny

      I guess the parent AC learned geography from a world-class American School.

    10. Re:I wonder by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      Apples are terrible for gaming.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    11. Re:I wonder by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I insist on gluten-free batteries.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the dumber half of Slashdot anyway.

    13. Re: I wonder by Memnos · · Score: 1

      So, umm.. where did you all learn sarcasm?

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    14. Re:I wonder by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I want to know who the hell is gonna eat all these apples? No, really... Other than a fairly short part of the year and at an apple processing company, where are they gonna get enough apples for this?

      As an aside, I had a hell of a time figuring it out based on the title alone. I was really curious as how they figured out when an iPhone was rotten.

      And, for a completely off-topic link:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    15. Re:I wonder by sjames · · Score: 1

      If the internal structure of the carbon matters, then apples and oranges would be quite different. It's probably harder to dehydrate an orange.

    16. Re: I wonder by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Well, Poland has a shitload of rotten apples now that they were hit with the revenge sanctions by Russia last autumn.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    17. Re:I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Apples always got compared to Androids and Windows.

    18. Re: I wonder by pollarda · · Score: 1

      This technology despite the claims of the article isn't green at all. If anything it is overripe since I t is a ripe time for technology such as this.

    19. Re: I wonder by sconeu · · Score: 1

      This technology despite the claims of the article isn't green at all

      Maybe they use red apples?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    20. Re:I wonder by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see how it does on Rotten Tomatoes.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    21. Re: I wonder by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      World-class Canadian schools, eh?

  2. Rotten apples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those that refuse to be decrypted?

    1. Re:Rotten apples by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Those that refuse to be decrypted?

      No, those that have a worm.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  3. JUST the low end cars? by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    Perhaps the high end cars will come with filters that only accept electricity from fresh apples, rejecting any electricity generated from rotten apples.

    After all, it's not like electricity is a commodity that we can send anywhere - just as the water knows it's going to a sink rather than a toilet, the electricity from rotten apples won't go to high end cars.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:JUST the low end cars? by samwichse · · Score: 1

      They'll call that "PREMIUM" apple electricity, and it'll be 30% more at the meter :(

  4. I ust need enough to power the inverter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until the sun comes up.
    And then just enough for the heat pump all night will do.

  5. So... by Matheus · · Score: 1

    How do you like them apples, huh??

    1. Re:So... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Apparently they don't like them apples, which is why they get made into carbon....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  6. Real Life Mr Fusion? (Finally) by dav1dc · · Score: 2

    Real Life Mr Fusion?

    Sorry, but I have to go here: http://i192.photobucket.com/al...

    Finally?! ^_^

    1. Re:Real Life Mr Fusion? (Finally) by cogeek · · Score: 1

      Where we're going we don't need roads!

    2. Re:Real Life Mr Fusion? (Finally) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're going to quote, quote properly.

      Where we're going, we don't need roads!

  7. Dangerous Ideas by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Many people were on the ethanol bandwagon due to the notion that alcohol could be made and less oil used for fueling cars and machinery. But there was a huge issue not considered. Farmers raising crops to create ethanol caused the price of food to severely increase. After all the land once farmed for food was suddenly farmed for fuel. So the next idea was to use more land to make crops. That also penalized all of us. Less natural land meant more pollution, with bad effects on nature and human health and also involved the use of water which in some areas is in critical shortages. Now suppose we simply use all the apples that don't look nice or have bad spots on them to help make electricity. You can bet that all those apples have been used to feed hogs and other livestock as well. Even orange peels are used to feed cattle. The world is in a terrible bind and the crucial fact beneath it all is that we very much need to reduce the reproductive levels of the population. No matter how far we push science and technology we still have an urgent need to limit births are we simply will all perish. As I type this, billions of gallons of fresh water, contaminated from sugar cane farming is being dumped into Florida's India River Lagoon, which is a salt water lagoon. The effect is so radical that we can not touch the water without risk of disease and the wildlife is being murdered in this huge lagoon. The reason the water is being dumped has to do with the farms being flooded with fresh water and the risk of the dyke around Lake Okeechobee collapsing and killing thousands of people. Yet there is very little choice but to farm that land due to our nation's need for food.

    1. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make Jesus cry.

    2. Re:Dangerous Ideas by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 2

      I don't think farmers are going to be growing rotten apples.

    3. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm anti-ethanol as well, but that's far from universally true about why it was a bad idea.

      Many regions of useful farmland were being subsidized to not grow crops so that the other farmers could make enough profit to cover their expenses. The ethanol craze gave an incentive to grow some crop that could be processed into an alcohol. The farmers that wanted in on the ethanol scam were mostly old corn farmers, and corn is a possible source of ethanol, so corn ethanol was legislated into standard. Now the fallow farms and some former food farms are being used to lower mpg by 5% (IIRC) while making no improvement in the gross petroleum usage or pump pricing.

      Corn is a possible source of ethanol, but far from a good one. The process to convert corn matter into ethanol takes almost as much energy as the ethanol will be able to release when burned. While that can be powered by any form of generator, it does increase demand on the grid and flammable hydrocarbons are still the easiest plants to build and scale to demand. Additionally, one of the dominant fertilizers that does a good job to restock the nutrients corn takes from the soil (and corn is a pretty greedy crop in that regard) is petroleum based in its own right.

      So, while it is possible to make corn based ethanol using solar power and natural fertilizers, it's cheaper and faster to use a fairly similar amount of oil to what will be displaced by that ethanol at the gas station. And all that with federal "green" subsidies instead of (or possibly in addition to) the old "don't flood the market with food" subsidies.

    4. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First read the article. They are using rotten apples. Second, learn a bit about apple farming. There is quite a bit of waste. If the apple is undersized, damaged, etc, it never makes it anywhere other than a rotting pile. Apples, rot quickly if not stored properly and those apples never make it to feeding livestock.

      Not to mention, here in the apple capital of the world, plenty of people have apple trees in their yards they never do anything with and the apples just fall and rot on the ground. The residences (non-farmers) of a single county in Washington state could probably go a long way in supplying this industry with all of the apples they need.

    5. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people were on the ethanol bandwagon due to the notion that alcohol could be made and less oil used for fueling cars and machinery.

      Not really, no. In the US, Ethanol was primarily used because of the increased oxygenation it would allow, reducing the pollution from the gasoline burned.

      Only places like Brazil wanted to go heavy into ethanol replacement, that's why they favor E85 and even E100.

      But there was a huge issue not considered.

      Not considered, eh? At all? When would you say the discussion started, so we have a framework to look in?

      Farmers raising crops to create ethanol caused the price of food to severely increase.

      Really? You have numbers for this?

      After all the land once farmed for food was suddenly farmed for fuel.

      Nothing sudden about it, it's been a slow and gradual process, actually.

      So the next idea was to use more land to make crops. That also penalized all of us. Less natural land meant more pollution, with bad effects on nature and human health and also involved the use of water which in some areas is in critical shortages.

      Ok, so how much more land is under cultivation now?

      Now suppose we simply use all the apples that don't look nice or have bad spots on them to help make electricity. You can bet that all those apples have been used to feed hogs and other livestock as well. Even orange peels are used to feed cattle.

      Imagine we stopped eating beef and pork, and other meat products! You can bet we'd waste a lot less food on them.

      The world is in a terrible bind and the crucial fact beneath it all is that we very much need to reduce the reproductive levels of the population. No matter how far we push science and technology we still have an urgent need to limit births are we simply will all perish.

      The world isn't even close to a terrible bind, actually. There is no urgent need. However, some of the things we should do, would actually reduce the birth rate.

      Including simply making everybody live a better life.

      As I type this, billions of gallons of fresh water, contaminated from sugar cane farming is being dumped into Florida's India River Lagoon, which is a salt water lagoon. The effect is so radical that we can not touch the water without risk of disease and the wildlife is being murdered in this huge lagoon. The reason the water is being dumped has to do with the farms being flooded with fresh water and the risk of the dyke around Lake Okeechobee collapsing and killing thousands of people. Yet there is very little choice but to farm that land due to our nation's need for food.

      Not at all, there's no need to farm that land, it could be uncultivated and the nation's food supply would not be at risk. It's the farmers who live there who would cry, not the country as a whole.

    6. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...But there was a huge issue not considered. Farmers raising crops to create ethanol caused the price of food to severely increase. After all the land once farmed for food was suddenly farmed for fuel. So the next idea was to use more land to make crops. That also penalized all of us.

      It's funny to me that you think this was a huge issue that was not considered.

      Point here is not all of us were penalized. Most of us did, while the greedy bastards who designed the whole fucking thing saw it as a resounding success. Sorry, but capitalism and greed that goes along with it cannot convince me that the humans involved in such a design didn't have the fucking forethought to understand the impact of food crops turning into fuel crops. They knew damn well what they were doing, and they knew the groups that would profit the most from it.

      Every bill. Every law. Every ruling. Every precedent. Good or bad, they all have one thing in common. Someone created them for a reason, and that reason is usually profit for someone involved.

    7. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The process to convert corn matter into ethanol takes almost as much energy as the ethanol will be able to release when burned.

      That's amazing, you can violate the laws of thermodynamics.

    8. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know where you're buying your apples, but when I buy them, I'm not real careful with how I store them and they take weeks to start going soft. Probably one of the longest shelf lives of any produce I ever buy. Like, maybe carrots last longer, but that's the only one that comes to mind.

    9. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Americans used fake sugar extracted from corn.

    10. Re:Dangerous Ideas by blindseer · · Score: 1

      "No matter how far we push science and technology we still have an urgent need to limit births are we simply will all perish"

      Or we could use nuclear power and not burn our food for fuel. Not nuclear power like we did fifty years ago but waste annihilating molten salt reactors that consume the waste from those old reactors, produce plenty of energy, and produce valuable radioactive isotopes for medicine and industry.

      Add that plentiful energy from uranium and thorium to a synthetic fuel technology like what the US Navy is working on, turn seawater into jet fuel. That closes the carbon loop, no more carbon footprint, no nuclear waste, plenty of food and energy. Then when the Earth can't take any more human births we will have the energy and technology to colonize Mare and Uranus.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    11. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Even worse, there are millions in the world who are thirsty while we are pouring alcohol in our cars.

    12. Re:Dangerous Ideas by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Many people were on the ethanol bandwagon due to the notion that alcohol could be made and less oil used for fueling cars and machinery. But there was a huge issue not considered.

      I think that was considered, and was dealt with via market forces.

      Farmers raising crops to create ethanol caused the price of food to severely increase. After all the land once farmed for food was suddenly farmed for fuel.

      Um, you know you there is no such thing as an ethanol tree? Ethanol is made from feed crops, that either get sold for food/feed or fuel depending on who pays the most.

      So the next idea was to use more land to make crops.

      I don't recall that. I'm sure in some third world countries with no regulations it happened, but in most cases farmers simply trade unprofitable crops for profitable ones.

  8. Pfft by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Funny

    Android has had this feature from day one. Glad to see Apple is finally catching up.

    1. Re:Pfft by sconeu · · Score: 2

      I guess they're going to be using Apple /// computers. Those were pretty rotten.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Pfft by maroberts · · Score: 1

      I was expecting to read about how they'd used old Apple phones or Steve Jobs corpse to generate electricity.....

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    3. Re:Pfft by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of Newtons.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  9. Hard C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article (I know, for some reason I actually read it) mentions hard carbon. Isn't that diamond?

    1. Re:Hard C by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      In this case, Hard C means Hard Cider.

    2. Re:Hard C by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I want to know how they convert a rotten apple into "hard carbon" beyond just dehydrating them. Do they just make charcoal out of them or something? Which if true, why don't they do the same thing to the solids AFTER they are pressed to get the juice out of them?

      Inquiring minds want to know....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  10. What a shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...to see German engineering innovation squandered on pointless, feel good green malinvestiments like this.

  11. Finally, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something useful you can do with a Mac.

    1. Re:Finally, by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I always thought they made good movie props... I guess they can squeeze them into other forms now.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  12. Not Cheap. by WorBlux · · Score: 1

    20% of the cost of Lithium ion per unit capacity is still not cheap compared to the cost of electricity from the grid. For widespread home storage you need to bring costs down to less than 5 cents per kW/hr, (1/2 grid costs ... significantly less than grid to combine with rooftop solar) and grid you likely need less than 2 cents per kWhr. (1/10-1/4 retail,) (the difference between the spot costs from base-load or fuel-less sources of (nuclear coal, wind, solar) and that of oil/fast-start natural gas)

    1. Re:Not Cheap. by DamonHD · · Score: 1

      Please don't mix energy with power or with storage capacity, and there is no such unit as kW/hr unless you are manufacturing non-SI generators perhaps.

      Rgds

      Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    2. Re:Not Cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell are you talking about? The W/hr is the standard unit of measurement for all energy storage. Seriously, read the battery in your phone, it'll state the mW/hr capacity.

      Me's thinks you don't know what you're talking about.

    3. Re:Not Cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...there is no such unit as kW/hr

      Units of kW/hr, while technically non-SI, are accepted for use in the SI system as valid method of reporting power rate (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=kW%2Fhr).

    4. Re:Not Cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're getting things a bit mixed up there, you're never going to find a power storage system that cheap. Your average house here in the US uses about 900 KWh of electricity per month. So you're wanting something that costs $45 that can store a homes electrical needs for a month. A much more reasonable unit (say about 200 KWh, or about a weeks storage) for say around $1,000 would lead to a vast change in the electrical grid. Even if it had to be replaced every 5 years it would still only be $16 a month), tied in with a few solar panels/wind turbines and the grid charging up the storage unit during low cost per kwh times and I don't see how it could be more expensive than your average power bill. Sure if you try to go off grid and build out 10KW of renewable generation you're going to get pretty expensive but your average user isn't going to do so.

    5. Re:Not Cheap. by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Most residential electric bills in the U.S are charged in terms of kW/hr, the kilowatt hour. For a battery bank you calculate the potential deliverable kW/hr , you roughly take capacity X cycles. The cost is the cost of the battery. Divide total cost by the potential deliverable. To be even more accurate correct for efficiency loses.

    6. Re:Not Cheap. by x0ra · · Score: 1

      it's kWh, not kW/h

    7. Re:Not Cheap. by x0ra · · Score: 1

      no, it's kWh. It's an amount of energy, in J (approximated to a unitless conversion constant). Power is a rate of doing work, measured in W, where W = J / s. kW/s make no physical sense, it would measure the rate of the rate of doing work...

    8. Re:Not Cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops, yeah. My bad. But none the less, unless you're being a pedantic ass or are the most clueless person on earth, you can figure out what's meant if somebody says W/hr in the context of battery capacity. And remember, nobody like a pedantic ass. Pedantic asses usually deserve a fist to the face. The only time it's called for is if mixing up terms can introduce confusion.

    9. Re:Not Cheap. by hawk · · Score: 1

      Not "kW/hr", but "kW*hr" . . . . more than a little different

      hawk

    10. Re:Not Cheap. by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Yes, thank you, my mistake.

  13. nifty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So when can I charge my cellphone and get a shot of penicillin?

  14. Another Science Fair Wonder! by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wake me when you can run a toaster with it.

    It seems that every week we some "green power" technology that produces 0.3 yoctowatts of power, involves the slight jostling of 3 electrons, and claims industrial level of application.

    I call bullshit. Stop stealing ideas from the local school science fair and develop something that will power something useful, and demonstrate it.

    --

    Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

    Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    1. Re:Another Science Fair Wonder! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      With a farm full of windfalls and rejects definitely, but then again you could also get a pile of methane out of it like sewerage treatment works have been burning to run stuff for decades.

    2. Re:Another Science Fair Wonder! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You could run a toaster from this type of battery. It's grid scale stuff. Various types of sodium battery, particularly sodium-sulphur, are used for smoothing the output of wind farms or large scale grid backup. Japan has been selling 50MW+ batteries to utilities around the world for a few years now. I believe that Hawaii has some.

      The stated energy density for these things looks reasonable. It doesn't have to be the best, since it's also cheap, recyclable and shows little degradation after many cycles.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  15. Green power, huh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this only works with green apples?!?

    What about rotten MacIntosh apples. There should be loads of those around.

  16. Oh my by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Rotten Apples?
    So, the DOJ won.

  17. KIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can not take anything coming out of that university seriously since they renamed themselves to Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) to leech off the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) brand. Their Wikipedia entry reads like a brochure, too. Goddamn posers.

  18. My eyes read potable electronics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just sayin'.

  19. unintended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of the apple batteries discarded have perfectly functional cells. The connections between them corrode quickly because they started using politically correct solder instead of lead, sending millions of perfectly good batteries to the dump

  20. Is sodium-ion any more green than ethanol? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the sodium-ion battery with rotten apples any better than extracting the alcohol (ethanol, specifically) and burning it for fuel? I thought the best use of sugary crops (sugarcane or corn seem to be ethanol favorites) was to create ethanol?

  21. and all this time.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought you were supposed to use a potato :O

  22. It is about time. Late actually by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    It was predicted by Dr Emitt Brown that by 2014 we will be producing energy from food scraps, 88 Gigawatts to refuel the flux capacitor. No need to steal plutonium from Libyan terrorists.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:It is about time. Late actually by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      It's 1.21 jiggawatts. Sheesh.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    2. Re:It is about time. Late actually by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      No it's one point twenty-one jiggawatts. Sheesh. (1.21 is pronounced one point two one)

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  23. It's like they say by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    One bad apple increases the electricity generating capabilities of the whole bunch.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  24. Recycling Apple Products by TylerJWhit · · Score: 0

    I've always been under the impression that once a Mac or another Apple product died, you replaced it. Now I know that they are still useful.

  25. Do the Apples need decrypted? by TylerJWhit · · Score: 0

    I suppose it's a good thing for KIT that the courts are requiring Apple to decrypt their devices.

  26. Use this for aluminum by blindseer · · Score: 1

    They want to use this technology to turn rotten apples into carbon anodes for electric batteries? I have what I believe to be a better idea. A process that uses consumable carbon anodes is aluminum refining. Right now they are made from coal, but if made from fruit this closes the carbon cycle on that process and we won't be digging up carbon any more to just dump it in the air.

    There are some crazy people out there that think we shouldn't be using aluminum anyway, but also use wind and solar power. What nut jobs, what do they think that solar panels and windmills are made from? Apples?

    Use the rotten apples to make aluminum. Keep digging up aluminum for windmills and wires. The stuff left over from the aluminum mining can be mined further for uranium and thorium. Put the uranium, thorium, and spent nuclear fuel from all those old nuclear reactors into a waste annihilating molten salt reactors. Those molten salt reactors will destroy the old waste, produce energy, and give us vital radio isotopes for medicine and industry. The energy from the reactors can be used to make more windmills, synthetic fuels, and leave the ethanol for making wine, whiskey, and beer.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  27. This could save on taxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Police stations could be self-powered.

  28. Rotten apples? by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

    I think I might rather have my batteries catch fire.

  29. yeah, but why not sour grapes? by yodleboy · · Score: 2

    I'd think running on sour grapes would drastically increase supplies and yield more potent batteries.