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Apple Lawyer Ted Olson: Creating Unlock Tool Would Lead To 'Orwellian' Society (9to5mac.com)

Apple's lawyer, Ted Olson, explained in an interview with CNN that what the government is asking Apple to do is "limitless." Olson explained that if the tool that the government wants is created, any judge anywhere could essentially order to list to any customer's conversation, track location, and much more. The lawyer likened it to an Orwellian "big brother" type society. When pressed about how Apple could potentially help fight terrorism by creating a tool to access locked devices, Olson explained that while Apple will help the government defeat terrorism in every way that it can, it can't be done by breaking the Constitution.

23 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. pretending that back doors dont exist by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pretending that back doors don't exist is what will create an Orwellian society.

    The back door is already there. Thats the problem. The problem isn't that the government wants Apple to use it, and certainly not that the government wants Apple to create one (remember the original narrative?)

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
    1. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You miss to point: Apple - and Google, and Microsoft - would much rather do the big-brothering themselves for their own profit, and don't want to give that power to the government.

      1984 is already happening, but Orwell got one thing wrong: the tyranny is coming from the private sector, not the government.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by Rumagent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spot on!

      Apple i perfectly capable of cracking your device. They are not fighting for privacy. They are fightning for the appearance of privacy because it is good for business.

      It seems to me that either they follow the legal requests (which they are) or they get their shit together and create a phone that is actually secure.

    3. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe they already have made one that's more secure. Apparently this particular attack vector only works on older iPhones, which the shooter had in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if the next phone is completely impossible (so much as anything can be at least) for even they themselves to hack. Apple makes all of their money from selling expensive hardware, not customer data, so they don't have much financial motive for needing an access to that data and their inability to do so only makes the hardware more attractive.

    4. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe they already have made one that's more secure. Apparently this particular attack vector only works on older iPhones, which the shooter had in this case. I wouldn't be surprised if the next phone is completely impossible (so much as anything can be at least) for even they themselves to hack. Apple makes all of their money from selling expensive hardware, not customer data, so they don't have much financial motive for needing an access to that data and their inability to do so only makes the hardware more attractive.

      What if the governements orders Apple to create iphones that are breakable ? Thought about that ?
      People are fucking stupid and don't understand that technology is never the answer to a societal problem.
      Politics is. Apple is doing the right thing. If the government wants to break the iphone they have at their disposal billions of dollars, talent and infrastructure beyond even what is available to Apple. So why don't they do it ? Because once the precedent of making a company do your bidding is made private companies are fucked for life. The government is playing the big game here. If they break Apple we'll never ever again have a computer industry that protects the consumer. We don't live (at least for the time being) in a dictatorship and the constitution is still valid. You can't just through it away because of crime or "insert any other bogey man of the week".

    5. Re: pretending that back doors dont exist by beheaderaswp · · Score: 3, Informative

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      There is a while bunch of privacy law that hangs on this.

      --
      Another consultant who stuck it out.

      "We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
    6. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by ranton · · Score: 2

      The back door is already there.

      Prove it or STFU

      Apple has claimed it will take "two to four weeks [...] for six to ten Apple engineers and employees dedicating a very substantial portion of their time" to comply with the government's request.

      If a company the size of Apple can spend about $100,000 of developer time to get to your data, I think it is only semantics to say the back door doesn't already exist. It would be the equivalent of me saying your house is secure from me breaking in because it would cost me 25 cents to create a master key to your home.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    7. Re: pretending that back doors dont exist by Mass+Overkiller · · Score: 2

      The Constitution provides the rules to run the government. It does not provide the rights of the people. The rights of the people are automatic and "god" given. The Constitution restricts the function of government. Therefore, rights of the people are inalienable. The right to privacy is automatically granted. There is no need to establish it as a 'right'. The Bill of Rights is an affirmation of the inalienable rights already granted by 'the creator', or by the universe, or whatever. The Constitution is a document that creates and restricts government. It does not restrict the rights of the people.

    8. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      If unlocking your phone is done by the OS, and Apple can update your OS without your consent, then they can always unlock your phone.

      Unlocking the phone requires the passcode. There is absolutely 100% no way to unlock the phone without the passcode. What the FBI wants Apple to do is remove a security feature that erases the phone after ten incorrect attempts. Which would be good enough because the phone uses a 4 digit passcode. With an eight digit passcode, nothing Apple or anyone can do.

    9. Re:pretending that back doors dont exist by brantondaveperson · · Score: 2

      can be compromised by $100k of development.

      Not correct. It can be compromised by $100k of development by an organisation in possession of Apple's private signing keys, will only work on older phones, and can be defeated even on those simply by having a longer passphrase.

    10. Re: pretending that back doors dont exist by sconeu · · Score: 2

      And the Tenth.

      The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

      Which translates to, "If we didn't say the Feds can do it, they can't."

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  2. Goodbye, Thirteenth Amendment? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    We of the dark side are often accused of invoking the slippery slope argument too soon. But in this instance, if the FBI is able to convince courts that forced labor is a valid tactic to use in a terror investigation, it already has nine new cases (more according to some sources) for which it wants Apple to be forced to write custom crack code in hopes of solving. And every single one of these new cases involves the drug war, not terror.

    1. Re:Goodbye, Thirteenth Amendment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not just a demand for forced labor, they're trying to compel legally-protected speech, and to set a legal precedent in the process.

    2. Re:Goodbye, Thirteenth Amendment? by currently_awake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they can be forced to help unlock a phone after the terror attack, then why can't they be forced to install spy programs on a known terrorist phone before the attack?

  3. Re:Apple speaking out 2 sides of their mouth by kenwd0elq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "unreasonable" part. It's "reasonable" for Apple, on receipt of a court order, to turn over to the FBI all data in its possession concerning the terrorists, which Apple has done.

    Demanding that Apple force its programmers to write custom software THAT DOES NOT NOW EXIST to allow the FBI to break into one particular iPhone is "unreasonable", and I think Cook, and Apple, are correct here.

    Further, concerning the 1789 "All Writs Act", signed by George Washington back before there was much Federal law at all; if the All Writs Act can be perverted so far as to demand that Apple write software that does not exist, then what government demand does it NOT permit? Because if there aren't any limits to THIS PARTICULAR LAW, then the Constitution died in 1789, barely two years after its ratification.

  4. Re:Let's just be honest by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    Let's not pretend that Tim Cook, or virtually any executive at Apple, gives a shit about the US Constitution.

    Whether he does or doesn't isn't terribly relevant. Tim "cares" about the privacy of his users. The 4th Amendment "cares" about the privacy of the people. They're aligned.

    The Constitution that authorizes the government restricts the powers of said government. The government specifically is not authorized to obtain General Warrants; what they're asking for is the digital equivalent of King George's abuses.

    Now, one might argue that the USG is no longer, practically, bound by the Constitution. But if that's the case, it's no longer authorized either. Most people would rather pretend it somehow is than admit they're living under despotism.

    There's also another argument that the people need a fresh reminder of how abusive governments can be, every few generations. Jefferson wrote frequently on this, but then again he thought the Constitution should expire every 19 years so that each new generation could enter into the agreement voluntarily, and not be bound by the decisions of their ancestors.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  5. Re:Apple speaking out 2 sides of their mouth by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    However, the FBI screwed it up by changing the password to the cloud storage so the phone can no longer be paired to the cloud

    Either the FBI is very incompetent or that was a deliberate act by the FBI to create the situation that now exists. A situation that is the best possible scenario for the FBI to force Apple to unlock a phone.

    The FBI has lied about this case time and time again. They even had the gall to blame the San Bernadino health department for resetting the password.

    I am not convinced that there was a screwup, but instead the FBI got the password changed, knowing exactly what the consequences would be.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  6. facecrime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    "It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime, it was called."

    "The telescreen recieved and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever the wanted to. You had to live- did live, from habit that became instinct- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."

    -Some quotes from 1984

  7. Re:Apple speaking out 2 sides of their mouth by MrKrillls · · Score: 2
    "Demanding that Apple force its programmers to write custom software THAT DOES NOT NOW EXIST to allow the FBI to break into one particular iPhone is "unreasonable", and I think Cook, and Apple, are correct here."

    Exactly. The FBI should have asked. And Apple would have and should have refused, as they have.

    Instead, the FBI screwed up and then are trying to strong-arm Apple into repairing the mess the FBI made. Typical overreach and use of force instead of brains.

    --
    Don't step on the baby.
  8. Good move Apple by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 2

    Since his wife was killed by terrorists on 9/11 he's a good choice to counter the fed's "But we need this because terrorists" argument.

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  9. Re: oh boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is simply not possible to build the required tool in a way that:

    - it will only run on this iPhone

    AND

    - it can not be trivially adapted to run on every other iPhone

    The first part is completely possible, but the second part is impossible - by building the tool, you have done 99.999% of the effort required to do it for another phone. Maybe not quite that for secure enclave devices, but certainly for everything pre-A7.

    This isn't a 4th amendmant issue - it's a government owned phone. The same government that:

    - bought, but did not use Mobile Device Management software that would have let them unlock the phone

    - did not use Apple's free Device Enrolment Program, that can make MDM mandatory & non removable for institutionally owned devices

    - did reset the ICloud password so the backup was no longer recoverable

    For institutionally owned devices, Apple has already supplied a tool set to do exactly what the government needs here.

    They chose not to use it, and now want Apple to build a new tool set that digs them out of the hole they found themselves in, due to their incompetence.

  10. Re:Apple speaking out 2 sides of their mouth by kenwd0elq · · Score: 2

    Don't SAY stuff like that, not even in jest! Some congresscritter (or staffer) is likely to be lurking here, and get the idea that this might actually WORK!

    But there is case law concerning the All Writs Act; demands made regarding it are required to be "reasonable", which the FBI's demand in this case is not.

    But now Apple will spend a billion dollars litigating this all the way to the Supreme Court, and Apple is pretty sure that's how far it'll go - because you don't hire the former Solicitor General of the United States, who represented the U.S. at the Supreme Court, unless you're pretty sure that's where it is going.

    And the fact that Ted Olson took the case is a pretty clear statement that he doesn't think this case is about terrorism. Olson HATES terrorists; his wife was on the airplane that hit the Pentagon on 9/11/01.

  11. Re:Apple: stop the posturing and fix your phones by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 2

    Somebody is wearing a tin foil hat...