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Israeli Troops Who Relied On Waze Blundered Into Deadly Palestinian Firefight (washingtonpost.com)

Posted by yaelk on from the fast-but-dangerous dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Israeli forces mounted a rescue mission in a Palestinian neighborhood after gun battles erupted when two soldiers mistakenly entered the area because of an error on a satellite navigation app, Israeli authorities said Tuesday.The clashes late Monday in the Qalandiya refugee camp outside Jerusalem left at least one Palestinian dead and 10 injured, one seriously. According to initial Israeli reports, the two soldiers said they had been using Waze, a highly touted Israeli-invented navigation app bought more than two years ago by Google. The smartphone app, which has a settings option to 'avoid dangerous areas,' relies on crowdsourcing to give users the fastest traffic routes.

37 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Why is this here? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sod it all, I want tech or geek news.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Why is this here? by Your.Master · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was going to say that this would be the "people blindly follow satnav without engaging their brains" aspect of technology. However, upon reading the article, I see this:

      the driver deviated from the suggested route and, as a result, entered the prohibited area.

      So fuck that, this article is about when the people DON'T use satnav technology. Yet they are blaming it on an error in Waze paragraphs earlier. Maybe they think it's an error that Waze came close enough that a small deviation lead to disaster? Well, they also say that the soldier who went astray had turned off the "avoid dangerous or prohibited areas" setting, which is also a user error.

      Something doesn't quite add up about the Waze aspect of the story.

    2. Re:Why is this here? by jason.sweet · · Score: 5, Informative
      FTA

      “In this case, the setting was disabled,” the official told the news agency. “In addition, the driver deviated from the suggested route and, as a result, entered the prohibited area.”

      User error, as usual

    3. Re:Why is this here? by blackomegax · · Score: 2

      The publisher/centralized approach is flawed too. There is no perfect solution.

    4. Re:Why is this here? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      The concept is stupid. Since the info is crowd-sourced, what's to keep the other side to mark dangerous areas as safe and then shooting fish in a barrel?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:Why is this here? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      So then they can mark safe areas as dangerous, driving people to dangerous areas that aren't yet marked, or blocking all passage.

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      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:Why is this here? by jrumney · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its an excuse. A couple of soldiers went rogue and shot up a Palestinian refugee camp, and the IDF needs a cover story.

    7. Re:Why is this here? by qbzzt · · Score: 2

      Actually, they might need to separate "dangerous area" by population. A Jewish Israeli would find a refugee camp dangerous, and a Jewish settlement safe. A Palestinian might find the reverse (although he's likelier to be denied entry at the gate of the settlement than be shot). An Israeli Arab might be safe in both places.

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      -- Support a free market in the field of government
    8. Re:Why is this here? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

      Yes. They also had to cross a freakin' checkpoint., that might have been a clue they were entering the West Bank.
      Also, those "security forces dressed in civilian clothes" didn't need Waze as an excuse to enter Qalandia in 2013 :
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    9. Re:Why is this here? by nashv · · Score: 2

      No, your expectation that crowd-sourcing is an accurate source of information is flawed. Crowd-sourcing is a way to get high quantity information, not necessarily high-quality information.

      The Israeli soldiers used the app incorrectly.

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      Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  2. umm by darkitecture · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're relying on a commercial and/or free app or program for life-or-death situations, I think you're doing it wrong. If said option is the only option, then you have to take it at face value and accept some self-responsibility. I'm not going to trust my life to crowdsourcing for surgery or medication, so why would I trust my life to crowdsourcing for navigating near a war zone?

    1. Re:umm by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 2

      I'm thinking they forgot to check the box that said "Avoid areas that are dangerous to Israeli soldiers"... because I'm pretty sure the area was safe for most Palestinians.

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    2. Re:umm by blackomegax · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Warning, firefight reported in 500 meters"

    3. Re:umm by tsotha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nah, they're not safe for Palestinians either. It's just that nobody cares when Palestinians kill each other.

  3. There's your problem right. there. by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're using crowdsourcing to figure out the safe way to go, someone's got to be the first one to report a hazard.

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    1. Re:There's your problem right. there. by sunderland56 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe 8 people *did* report it as being a hazard..... but then 23 muggers reported it as perfectly safe.

  4. Waze doesn't seem to have "avoid dangerous areas" by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just looked through my Waze settings and I don't see "avoid dangerous areas", does that just show as an option for some third world places like Palestine or NYC?

    The closest thing I found was "avoid dirt roads"

    It seems Waze is sadly lacking the option to mark a hazard for "active firefight".

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. What error? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    two soldiers mistakenly entered the area because of an error on a satellite navigation app

    And what was this supposed "error"?

    According to the article (or at least, the most informative quotes in the article), the "dangerous places" setting was switched off and the driver wasn't actually on the Waze-suggested route.

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    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  6. That's not the app's fault by drew_kime · · Score: 5, Informative

    A gun battle broke out in a Palestinian neighborhood late Monday after Israeli forces tried to rescue two soldiers who had mistakenly entered the area because of an error on a satellite navigation app, Israeli authorities said Tuesday.

    Really?

    Agence France-Presse quoted a Waze official on Tuesday as saying that the setting to warn about areas “dangerous or prohibited for Israelis to drive through” had been switched off on the device the soldiers used.

    “In this case, the setting was disabled,” the official told the news agency. “In addition, the driver deviated from the suggested route and, as a result, entered the prohibited area.”

    I'm having a really hard time seeing how that's the app's fault.

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    1. Re:That's not the app's fault by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 2

      Especially since they had to go past a check point to get into the area.

  7. give it a few more years of Isreali resetlement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    policy and the map will be correct!

  8. Re:Military vs. Civilian by alantus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since we are talking about Israel, you can replace "two soldiers" with "two 18 year old kids".
    In most countries, kids graduate high school and start getting drunk and laid in college. In Israel kids finish high school and start their military service. And this is for both genders.

  9. All relative by taniwha · · Score: 2

    Of course one person's "dangerous neighbourhood" is someone else's "home" .... crowd sourcing the distinction is probably a silly idea - or was there an "Occupying Army" switch they forgot to turn on to tell it what side they were on?

    1. Re:All relative by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Waze is an Israeli product, and has a feature in the Israeli version that helps avoid areas that are considered dangerous to Israelis. It's one of the reasons I don't use it any more.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  10. In 300 meters by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

    "In 300 meters, shoot left."

    "...recalculating..."

    "In 200 meters, throw hand grenades right."

    "...recalculating..."

    "Arriving at ambush location, on right."

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  11. Very strange headline.... by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Isn't this like a police officer reporting that waze failed to warn him about his speed trap before he set it up and gave out four tickets?

    How exactly was a navigation app supposed to warn the soldiers an area was dangerous when the only thing that made it dangerous was two soldiers walking into a peaceful neighborhood then subsequently shooting it up, killing a person and injuring 10 others. Or are they really suggesting they walked into a pack of heavily armed dangerous Palestinians who unexpectedly opened fire on them, all missing with every surprise shot, with the result of them walking away chuckling and talking about a smartphone app leaving a trail of bodies behind because they are just that damn good.

    Have they ever considered the possibility that Google is okay with people of both sides of their holy war using the app and considers an area safe until someone on either side reports a couple murderous militant assholes shooting someone who prays to wrong flavor of the same sky fairy?

  12. Re:It wasn't a dangerous area by harrkev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Invaders? You do know how Israel came to possess those areas, right? They took that land after all of their friendly neighbors tried to wipe them off of the map. Israel's caution has been proven to be right time and time again as Palestinians constantly try to kill Jews. If Mexico tried to destroy America, who could blame us if we took part of it to make sure that no weapons could get close?

    Here are a couple of examples of how Israel's friendly neighbors only want peace and the extermination of every Jew:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Now, can you show me any Jewish holidays dedicated to killing all Muslims, or Israeli TV shows that try to indoctrinate toddlers to kill people?

    The Israelis live in the ONLY Jewish country. If only there were some other Muslim countries in that part of the world that the Palestinians could move to...

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  13. Re:Military vs. Civilian by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

    And his case (just like mine, as I did the same thing) was voluntary. In Israel it's compulsory for ALL of them.

  14. Re:Military vs. Civilian by KGIII · · Score: 2

    > In Israel it's compulsory for ALL of them.

    It's conscription in name only. Only about 50% serve, according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Re:The only question is by qbzzt · · Score: 2

    On that day, in that place? Probably zero. There wouldn't have been a confrontation.

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  16. Don't you mean: by nazsco · · Score: 2

    crowd sourcing can be blamed just like the weather to justify military action that was not sanctioned by the people.

  17. Re:Feeding the troll by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Israel has a right to exist. A right to occupy territories and plant settlements in them outside its borders...no.

    Try coming uninvited into my home and see where that gets you, jackass.

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    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  18. Re:Military vs. Civilian by hyades1 · · Score: 2

    Not true. There's exemptions, and a lot of them use them.

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    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  19. Re:It wasn't a dangerous area by Hunter-Killer · · Score: 3, Informative

    They took that land after all of their friendly neighbors tried to wipe them off of the map.

    Not exactly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

    Jewish militias started killing Arabs, Arabs fled, Israel blocked their return, and redistributed their property/lands to Jewish immigrants. Israel's hands are just as bloody as anyone else's.

    I don't fault Indians for scalping my ancestors whenever they had the opportunity, and I don't fault the Palestinian people for attacking their occupiers whenever they get the chance. Israel can certainly do quite a bit to right their wrongs--honoring the Palestinian right of return would be a start.

  20. Re:It wasn't a dangerous area by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

    So, when will you start the Native American insurrection against the Occupiers? When will you condemn the Occupation of Cypress?

  21. Re:give me Bonestorm or GO TO HELL! by BlackPignouf · · Score: 3, Informative

    PROTIP: If you want to take the moral high ground, you might want to stop calling some humans baboons.
    Also, "These guys wearing regular civilian clothes in a civilian vehicle" are not always just passing by for no reason at all : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  22. Re:Feeding the troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You don't know much about the HISTORY behind those occupied territories, do you? They're occupied strictly because of the wanton belligerence of every single arab nation around Israel for the last 70 years. They're occupied because as it stands now, if they were NOT, they would most probably fall into ISIS.
    Also, YOU may think Israel has a right to exist, but try to open a book from a palestinian elementary school, and see where THAT gets you, jackass.

    Loved that "try coming uninvited into my house" bit, btw. Real redneck stuff right there. You're a great american. Stand Your Ground and all that shit. MURICA!!!