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FCC Complaints For the 2016 Primary Debates (muckrock.com)

v3rgEz writes: Wish that you could have tuned into all the primary debates without a cable subscription? You're not alone. According to MuckRock analysis of primary-related FCC complaints, that was one of the most common complaints, as well as allegations of corporate bias, candidate preferences by the networks, and general gripes about how corporate supposedly open debates have become. I wish there was a database to consult for complaints about the U.S. primary system, too.

178 comments

  1. Corporate bias? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2

    In America?
    I'm shocked.

    Hint: the candidates themselves are bought and sold on the marketplace. They're rich fucks trying to get elected to better serve their corporate masters, who bankrolled their campaigns. What does it matter if their lies and their antics are broadcast on Fox or PBS?

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Corporate bias? by JackieBrown · · Score: 0

      What's your solution? I know it's not revolt since most people that complain about corporate bias generally support an unarmed civilian population.

    2. Re:Corporate bias? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's your solution? I know it's not revolt since most people that complain about corporate bias generally support an unarmed civilian population.

      It's just a statement of fact. I have no solution, I'm not offering one, and quite frankly, I don't believe there is one.

      Besides, the American republic has always been that way. It's never been founded as a true democracy. So I'm not sure there's anything to fix in the first place. I just find it ironic that the only thing people seem to complain about is fairness in reporting - a fairly peripheric issue - when the entire system is unfair to the core.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're right. The US has (thankfully) never been a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. There is a difference. The government has powers (and the problem is that lovers of democracy ... ummm... make that dictatorships ... want an all-powerful, all-knowing government. And then they wonder why things collapse upon themselves.

      Here's an idea. Have a government that provides the basics: protects you from invaders and insures the following of agreed upon rules; and be very careful in adding extra responsibilities.

      Now for those unfamiliar with the US Constitution the above applies to the FEDERAL government. If a state wants to provide universal health care. Fine. But that is not the role (or should not be the role) of the FEDERAL government.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    4. Re:Corporate bias? by khasim · · Score: 4, Informative

      The US has (thankfully) never been a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

      That claim keeps popping up. It's wrong.

      We are "constitutional" because we have a Constitution. But that a bit of a tautology.

      "Republic" means that we are not a monarchy.

      We have a "representative democracy" where laws are voted upon by "representatives" who are voted for by our citizens.

    5. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's a lot pf 18th C literature, including the Federalist Papers, which elaborates on the issue. The distinction between a republic and a democracy is carefully laid out. In short a democracy is where a majority can pass anything that suits their fancy; the phrase "Constitutional Republic" was created to show how this new experiment was to differ. Namely that the powers of the FEDERAL government were carefully enumerated and thus limiting the power of both government and majority. Hence - NOT a democracy.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    6. Re:Corporate bias? by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      What's your solution? I know it's not revolt since most people that complain about corporate bias generally support an unarmed civilian population.

      It's just a statement of fact. I have no solution, I'm not offering one, and quite frankly, I don't believe there is one.

      I've thought about this problem a number of times. One thing that always comes to mind (because nobody yet has refuted it) is to cap "campaign contributions" to something a middle-class person could potentially afford, say $1000. Then you further enforce that corporations cannot hire shills to further donate and give themselves a louder voice. Granted, corps like Comcast can afford to spend $1k on hundreds (or thousands) of separate campaigns, but at least their voice will be the same volume as the general public.

      Of course, you'll never get the policymakers to pass such a law since it means a direct cut to their wallets. You'd also have to get the general public a bit more involved by throwing money and opinions at their representatives. If money truly does talk, then 10,000 people throwing $10 saying "municipal broadband is good" compared to $1k from Comcast saying "it'll destroy my business" should get things going in the right direction.

      Getting straight stories from news outlets is another issue altogether. Folks with a political bias tend to show that bias in their discussions, such as how Fox News referred to our President as "Mr Obama" or "Senator Obama" instead of "President" for a number of weeks (months? years?). CNN also seems to throw more opinion toward the GOP than toward the Dems, they tend to use more negative terms when referring to Trump and Cruz (deserving or not) than they do Hilary or Bernie.

    7. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The US has (thankfully) never been a democracy. It is a constitutional republic

      You're wrong there, and that's because you're trying too hard to play with semantics by treating "Constitutional republic" and "Democracy" as though they are mutually exclusive terms, when that's far from true. "Democracy" is the more general term which encompases several types of republics and a whole lot more. A constitutional republic as found in the US, for example, falls under the more specific subset of democracy known as a liberal democracy.

    8. Re:Corporate bias? by riskkeyesq · · Score: 1

      Now for those unfamiliar with the US Constitution the above applies to the FEDERAL government. If a state wants to provide universal health care. Fine. But that is not the role (or should not be the role) of the FEDERAL government.

      Have another go at reading the Federalist papers.

    9. Re:Corporate bias? by Archfeld · · Score: 2

      GO one step further. A corporation is NOT a person and should not donate ANY money to the political process. I'd also suggest that as part of the FCC's license agreement, each network be required to donate EQUAL time to each candidate that qualifies for the primary. I'd also like to see an actual debate, in which each candidate responds to the same question with the same time limits instead of the media circus we are getting now.

      PAC's and SUPERPAC's are utter rubbish.

      --
      errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    10. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now for those unfamiliar with the US Constitution the above applies to the FEDERAL government. If a state wants to provide universal health care. Fine. But that is not the role (or should not be the role) of the FEDERAL government.

      I'm quite familiar with how our federal government system works. Familiar to know that the SUPREME COURT ruled 6 to 3 against your argument.

    11. Re:Corporate bias? by boskone · · Score: 2

      I'd argue the Trump and Sanders are the least "bought and paid for" serious candidates we've seen in ages.

      Doesn't mean you have to like them, but I think the two of them propbably are pretty free.

    12. Re:Corporate bias? by CaptainLard · · Score: 1

      I have no solution, I'm not offering one, and quite frankly, I don't believe there is one.

      MAYBE....it is currently fixing itself. The candidate who spent the most money and had the most political connections dropped out early in the race. The one with all the hype (albiet a billionaire) is leading mostly because he's playing to america's inner racist (the only policies I know of that trump has actually talked about are religious and ethnic discrimination). If trump is their candidate it will pretty much blow up the whole corporate oligarchy the republicans have created. On the other side, the big H is likely going to win and she is pretty establishment but Bernie is a lot closer than most expected and he is as close as you'll ever get to being free of corporate interests.

    13. Re:Corporate bias? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "What's your solution? I know it's not revolt since most people that complain about corporate bias generally support an unarmed civilian population."

      I know. They've rigged the system pretty well eh?

    14. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >to better serve their corporate masters

      I'm a Trump supporter and what is this?

    15. Re:Corporate bias? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      We actually did pass that law. First, there was the Federal Election Campaign Act Amendments of 1974, and then the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002, better known as McCain-Feingold.

      Unfortunately, the restrictions on corporate "soft money" were tossed by the Supreme Court in the Citizens United v. Federal Elections Commission Supreme Court decision. Thus, the unlimited money that Super PACs and corporations can dump into elections now.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    16. Re:Corporate bias? by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Sanders is pretty much out at this point. Unless Hillary has a heart attack and keels over at a $900,000 speech to Goldman Sachs she is going to be the Democratic nominee. Trump is Trump, and is looking increasingly likely to be the Republican candidate, even though his chances in the general are pretty poor. A Clinton/Trump vote is good for Republicans though, since although Clinton is likely to win the Presidency, the enthusiastic support for Trump is likely to elect quite a few Republican congressmen and governors and further cement the Republican hold on the legislative branch.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    17. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US has (thankfully) never been a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

      That claim keeps popping up. It's wrong.

      We are "constitutional" because we have a Constitution. But that a bit of a tautology.

      "Republic" means that we are not a monarchy.

      We have an oligarchy.

    18. Re:Corporate bias? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "I just find it ironic that the only thing people seem to complain about is fairness in reporting - a fairly peripheric issue - when the entire system is unfair to the core."

      Most people get their information and knowledge of the system via reporting and each other (who again, mostly got it from reporting) therefore what and how things are reported is perceived as what and how things are and most of your peers see it the same way.

      People have also been found to respond better when given a choice and some kind of justification for behavior. For example, if one says "Hey guys, go dig me an outhouse." Everyone is likely to say, "Go fuck yourself." But if one says, "It stinks in here, which of you want to dig the hole and which would rather work on the closet." About 66% will choose either option A or B, with 33% doing other. Mostly people flock like birds so if you seed the group with people who will agree right away to each task you'll head off other speaking first and also capture most of other as they go along with the group. That is why the powers at be have two major parties.

      They even switch them up, 1984 style, what is D today used to be what R stood for and vice versa just like pink was once a boy color and blue a girl color. It helps keep everyone divided so there are historical counterpoints on either side. Of course it is really all a big dog and pony show with the same agenda spun different ways combined with a bunch of emotional issues that polarize people but the powers at be don't really care about.

    19. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Elaborate on that please. How did/does the US Constitution, or the arguments put forth in the Federalist Papers, limit or prohibit a state from providing universal health care to its residents?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    20. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And Bush spent $81 million in primaries and never got over 4%. You liberals are so obsessed with censorship you don't even care if your ideas will work or not, its just an attempt to silence people who disagree with you at any cost.

    21. Re:Corporate bias? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      After bloody revolution the people had all powers and authority. The Constitution is a grant of power from the people and the source (and limit) of power for both the state and federal governments. The Constitution sets limits on government which apply to both the states and the federal government but only enumerates the powers of the Federal government without actually specifying what is granted to the states.

      The Constitution did indeed separate out military power, only allowing the federal government to control a navy and no domestic forces while reserving all domestic military force of arms to the people. The US Army is illegal, as are the marines (which are just a second army within the navy just in case this were ever enforced), and the airforce is unspecified but it's domestic war potential should put it in the control of the people, the same of course for the blue angels, the again redundant backup within the Navy. Your aircraft carriers would just need to be loaded up with militia craft after a congressional declaration of war meeting the full constitutionally outlined requirements.

      As for universal healthcare, unlike most of the overreach of both the state and especially federal government it is pretty solidly within federal authority as the congress is empowered to make laws for the general welfare and good health is good for ones welfare and universal is quite decidedly general in scope.

      Let's be honest, you just don't want to pay for it. The UK provides total healthcare for less tax dollars per citizen than the US spends per citizen providing no healthcare at all. In theory if we did it like the UK you could see a tax cut in addition to not having to pay health care expenses. But really, the people of the UK pay an awful lot in taxes overall so starting to copy them might be a slippy slope and who says our government wouldn't screw it up where they got it right. After all, a lot of the expense is from FDA costs which can raise the cost of something that took $50 to design and prototype to a shelf price of several thousand dollars in the US and you want to get rid of that red tape and cut the costs that way. I don't think that will ever happen but I can understand the argument.

      Really, you aren't a monster who wants everyone in our supposedly great nation to have poor health or to limit it to just those exceptional gifted/lucky few who are born with means or are able to break out of their station and achieve the American dream. You just don't want to have to pay for it. I don't blame you. But your Constitutional argument is the illegally ratified amendment to the Constitution that enabled income tax and made everyone a federal citizen and the illegal and treasonous ruling by the supreme court upholding an amendment that did not meet the requirements of the Constitution. Some people will bring up that whole slavery thing but it's highly questionable whether slavery was legal under the Constitution in the first place and an act of congress could have abolished it. Again, for the general welfare. I think most of us can agree, being made a slave is not so much good for one's welfare.

      Without that amendment, we are state citizens. 50 states can potentially have 50 different taxation systems and the federal government can be funded by the states.

    22. Re:Corporate bias? by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      *slams forehead on desk*

      Yes and originally the senators were supposed to be chosen by the states, not the people. Hey, at least an amendment changed that! I see nowhere in the enumerated powers of congress that give federal government the authority to make it illegal for me to grow certain plants or funguses on my own property. Where's the fucking authority to tax people contingent on whether or not they've purchased a government-certified good or service? Alcohol prohibition and income tax both needed amendments. That's just what immediately comes to mind.

      This ship has long sailed. Get used to it.

      Also: there is no reason an amendment couldn't authorize congress to implement single payer health care or a universal basic income. Hell, an amendment could actually make the plants and funguses I'm interested in growing illegal instead of just relying on collective brain damage routing around the 9th and 10th Amendments.

      The people are COWS. You can shout "hurr durr federal republic not democracy!!eleven!!!1!!one!11!!" until your face is blue. It's not a fucking magic spell or some fucking occult magick that will undo how fucked the USA is right now thanks to how fucking uneducated Americans are.

      Trump? Clinton? Either way, we're fucked. Start stockpiling.

    23. Re:Corporate bias? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      I suppose that depends on when you are talking about. Democracy once meant the people ruled whereas a Republic was rule by representative. Declaring all sorts of not democracy to be flavors of democracy is what has evolved since because it is very political to call something democracy.

      We certainly do not really have democracy here in the US. The people do not even elect their representatives, see the electoral college. Within the major parties see the delegates and super delegates as well as the currently discussed brokered convention.

    24. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Nice comment.

      Key points - the phrase "general welfare" does not mean "welfare" in a 20th C sense, as a handout from government. Government's role is to protect your enumerated rights (see Bill of Rights). There were some who opposed including the Bill of Rights as they argued that the Federal Government -- congress -- only had the power to pass laws as listed in Article I Section VIII (if I remember correctly).

      As Congress was not granted the power to pass a law regarding speech or religion then the first Amendment was superfluous.

      What Europe does or does not do is immaterial to this conversation. The question at hand is - does the Federal Government have the power. I say no. You say yes. I point to the Constitution and say "it's not here". You point to the constitution and say "interstate commerce" applies to everything and even if I grow wheat in my own backyard the fact that I didn't have to buy wheat from someone else means that my growing wheat is part of "interstate commerce".

      That, along with the interpretation of "general welfare" is one of our many points of disagreement.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    25. Re:Corporate bias? by riskkeyesq · · Score: 1

      Elaborate on that please. How did/does the US Constitution, or the arguments put forth in the Federalist Papers, limit or prohibit a state from providing universal health care to its residents?

      It did not. However, in contrast to your statement, "But that is not the role (or should not be the role) of the FEDERAL government.", Madison (and Jay) makes clear that the very definition of "universal" is the Federal purview.

    26. Re:Corporate bias? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I disagree completely. (I may be wrong though.)

      From what I see, everyone on the right absolutely despises Hillary. I do *not* see Cruz voters, for instance, voting for Hillary over Trump. They might be saying now how much they dislike Trump, but when it comes down to Trump versus Mrs. Benghazi, I just don't see them voting for her. Similarly, there's a lot of Bernie voters who despise Hillary and have vowed to vote for Trump over her.

      While I agree that this race will come down to Hillary vs. Trump (unless, as you said, she keels over during a Goldman Sachs speech--we can only hope), I think it could really go either way. Both Hillary and Trump have very high disapproval numbers, but as Trump has proven over and over now, you can't use these poll numbers to make any good predictions, which is why I don't think it's valid to predict a winner based on their relative disapproval numbers, just that the fact they're both high means lots of people are going to be voting *against* someone in this race, not for someone.

      You might be right about the GOP getting even stronger in Congress though. I think the Democrats are really shooting themselves in the foot by pushing Hillary. There's a couple of scary scenarios here:
      1) Hillary wins, and the GOP controls Congress, but not veto-proof. Congress impeaches her based on her prior actions (like the "damned emails"). The federal government grinds to a halt for 4 long years. This'll make MonicaGate look like a cake-walk. It could even lead to a Constitutional crisis, and a new Constitutional Convention of the states (which would actually be a good thing).
      2) Hillary wins, but the GOP makes big gains and gets a veto-proof Congress. Hillary becomes mostly ineffectual and GOP pushes all kinds of regressive policies through by overriding her veto. Hillary refuses to enforce them, and makes a bunch of signing statements, and SCOTUS backs her, so Congress cuts off all funding for the government indefinitely, again grinding the government to a halt for 4 long years, leading to a Constitutional Convention.

    27. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      LOL!!!

      Well put.

      I don't remember that distinction but I will take a look.

      This clearly shows the ambiguity of language.

      Let me rephrase, if you will: "neither the US Constitution nor the Federalist Papers limit or prohibit a state from providing health care to it's residents."

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    28. Re:Corporate bias? by spacepimp · · Score: 1

      Are you aware that you are wrong and that by making this shit up you are proving yourself a fool or someone who is deliberately lying to others?

    29. Re:Corporate bias? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There is no solution, other than to put up with it as long as you can, try to vote to improve it, and jump off when the ship starts sinking too much, if you can find a better ship to take you.

      Voting is the best thing you can do, but here you can only do as much as the system, and the other voters, allow. If the other voters are so dumb they're all going to vote for the corporate-owned candidate, and your non-establishment candidate can only muster up a third of the vote or so, well, you just have to live with that. Maybe the next election will be better. It does appear on the right-wing side that people have really woken up and gotten tired of the establishment candidates, though their non-establishment choice is rather questionable. But over on the left-wing side, it appears that people are strongly in favor of the corporate-owned war hawk.

    30. Re:Corporate bias? by riskkeyesq · · Score: 1

      Let me rephrase, if you will: "neither the US Constitution nor the Federalist Papers limit or prohibit a state from providing health care to it's residents."

      I agree, but with the stipulation that such care meets the Federal standards. Thanks of taking this in the spirit it was intended; a conversation, and not an arguement. Here's a fun read: http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R4...

    31. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you translate this to be a liberal-only problem? It's just as bad for relative conservatives, in other decades.

    32. Re:Corporate bias? by TopherC · · Score: 1

      I just read this and thought: Google the phrases "you liberals" and "you conservatives" and see if there is an asymmetry in the search results.

      "you liberals": 196,000 reslults
      "you conservatives": 60,400 results

      I don't know what to make of that, but it's some measure of how pervasive partisan politics (us vs them) is among the major parties.

    33. Re:Corporate bias? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      A Clinton/Trump vote is good for Republicans though

      No, a Clinton/Trump election is not good, regardless of which party you claim. In January, Gallup reported that Trump had the highest unfavorability rating recorded, and yesterday Clinton's unfavorability hit a new high. 60% of people actively dislike Trump, and 55% of people actively dislike Hillary. Those are 2 people who are both disliked by a majority of the country. That's not good. They are the only candidates over 50%. Jeb! peaked at around 45%, the evangelist Ted Cruz is at 37% unfavorable and noted socialist Bernie Sanders is at 31%.

      31% of the country dislikes a socialist in a presidential election, and 55% dislike the presumptive Democratic nominee while 60% dislike the Republican. That's not a good sign that things are going well in this country. If this election comes down to Clinton and Trump without any big-name independents you're going to see the lowest voter turnout in recent history and a lot of unhappy people feeling like they are not represented.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    34. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liberals cry and scream about Citizens United case, which prevented individuals from putting on TV commercials for a candidate they like within 90 days of an election. You read that right, McCain-Feingold prevented INDIVIDUAL citizens from expressing their political opinion with threat of jail time if they do. Citizens United overturned that unconstitutional law. Liberals are the only ones saying it should have been held up and are always promising to reinstate it, like Clinton is.

      Bush showed without a doubt that money doesn't equal votes. If it did, yesterday would have gotten Bush the GOP nomination. He literally spent $25,000 for EACH VOTE he got in Iowa. He would have saved money if he bought everyone who voted for him a new car.

      I understand what I am saying doesn't make sense. Its not the kind of thing people who complain about Citizens United want mentioned, but they know this already and don't care. Liberals can't stand freedom of speech.

    35. Re:Corporate bias? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The people do not even elect their representatives, see the electoral college.

      The electoral college applies only to one office, one branch, of the government. That office was not intended to represent the people who elected him, it was to be a check and balance on the people who do represent the citizens, and those who represent the states that make up the union.

      The representative part of the government is, indeed, elected by the people, even those who were supposed to represent not the people's but the state's interests. Somewhere along the line the concept of "representation" got twisted into thinking that the only important representation is of the people directly, and so states began holding general elections for senators instead of using a method of appointment that would ensure the senator represented the interests of the state itself.

      And this is why we now have what appears to be a dual legislature where one is redundant. And why we have the mistaken impression that there is some "popular vote" that should select the President.

    36. Re: Corporate bias? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Does the phrase "shit sandwich or turd croissant" ring any bells?

      Does "bought and paid for congress" seem familiar?

      Does/do any or all of terrorism, save the children, for your own good, in god we trust, infringe, interstate, amend, warrant, war on drugs, surveillance, censorship, corporate ownership of broadcasting... seem familiar?

      I'm thinking "fixing itself" doesn't mean the same thing to you and I.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    37. Re: Corporate bias? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      There are three boxes to use in support of liberty:

      o The idiot box
      o The Amazon box
      o Any box from the liquor store

      You just can't fool Americans. We know how to keep the status quo stable.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    38. Re:Corporate bias? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Government's role is to protect your enumerated rights (see Bill of Rights)."

      The portion of the Constitution empowering congress to pass laws for the general welfare was written before there was a bill of rights and there is an amendment for the explicit purpose of making clear that the bill of rights are explicitly enumerated rights but that all rights not granted were reserved to the people. Just because it isn't in the bill of rights doesn't mean it isn't a right. For example, the right to privacy which is cornerstone logical principle behind some of the restrictions on government in the Constitution but not listed in the bill of rights.

      Welfare did not and still does not mean "welfare" in the handout to the poor sense if that is what you mean. It was and is synonymous with "well being" and "good", Congress is empowered to pass laws which directly benefit the well being of the general population. The term general here prohibits any kind of limiting provision except possibility to citizens. As long as something would be a benefit to any person, and is potentially applicable to every person it qualifies as potential congressional action. Universal healthcare meets this provision although it wasn't a potential consideration at the time. You can not pursue happiness if you are sick or dead. The provisions in the Constitution such as a right to trial by jury, the requirement of a warrant for search and seizure, the right to move freely between states, collective bargaining with foreign entities, etc are actually examples of the kind of things congress is intended to do. The federal government primarily exists to pass laws to prevent the abuse of citizens by state and local government, to protect citizens rights, including the right to engage in the pursuit of happiness.

        "You point to the constitution and say "interstate commerce" applies to everything and even if I grow wheat in my own backyard"

      You are mistaken on this point. Interstate commerce clearly indicates any and all actual commercial transactions which actually involve parties in different states.

    39. Re:Corporate bias? by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Low turnout elections are fantastic for Republicans. They'll get so many seats.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    40. Re:Corporate bias? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      I got the same result for "you liberals." "you conservatives" resulted in "About 28,900,000 results (0.41 seconds) "

    41. Re:Corporate bias? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not for a revolution at this point, but I am definitely opposed to an unarmed populous.

    42. Re:Corporate bias? by DoctorBit · · Score: 1

      You got 28,900,000 results because you forgot to use quotation marks.

    43. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Papers you clearly misunderstood. The US was founded the way it was in an attempt to resurrect the ancient idea of democracy. 2000 years of history told the founders that without a sovereign a large state cannot function. So they came up with the idea of a sovereign made of paper. A constitution as ultimate authority but created democratically... the will of the people became the king.
      This also means constitutional origanilism is a contradiction in terms that flat out disrespects the spirit and nature of the constitution. Its not holy writ. Its the exact opposite. Its supposed to be a living document constantly updated to reflect the will pf the king (i.e. the voters) at any given time. James Madison wanted a congress every decade to ammend or even rewrite tge constitution based on refferenda of ordinary citizens demands. One could argue about whether this was a good idea or not. One could claim that the gradual erosion of this ideal was a good thing.
      But to pretend the authors would not insist that America today needs, for example, a referendum on scrapping the second amendment or making medicare for all a constitutional right os flat out ahistorical wishful thinking. Whatever good reasons you may have to argue against either change the will of the founders isnt one. Their will was that your generation must decide everything for yourself and the next for themselves.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    44. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Originalism refers to the fact that words have meaning within context. Imagine you hear of a person who tied up two gay men to poles and burned them alive. And his defense for his action was a law written in 1870 (and had never been repealed) which stated that, within this jurisdiction "... it was prohibited to burn more than three f@gg0ts at one time."

      And his defense was that he had burned only two f@gg0ts so he was clearly within the boundaries set by the law.

      Would you agree with his reasoning (even though you would be appalled by his actions), let him go and vow to review all laws with the word f@gg0t?

      Or, would you argue that the word f@gg0t refers to bundles of sticks and not to homosexuals and therefore the person is guilty of murder?

      TL/DR - the meanings of words change over time. (Pick up any play by Shakespeare) It's the concept, and often the context, that counts.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    45. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      If that was what constitunional originalists actually did it would merely be stupid. In practise its an excuse to prevent rights existing for people who didnt have them 200 years ago.
      Even then its stupid. Any trained linguist will tell you every word had multiple meanings 200 years ago just like today, and context must be derived from tangential sources where invariably there are mukultip contradictory ones. Which meaning a judge ends up accepting as the original is always and without exception a purely subjective judgement call selected to support whatever interpretation fits the judge's own politicam beliefs about what the law "ought" to say. We can know this as absolute fact because objectively determining the meaning of a word in a 200 year old text is provably an absolute impossibility.
      When no two linguists agree what a line in shakespeare really meant this is harmless and in fact linguistics is improved by having solid arguments for all possible meanings.
      When judges declare some meaning of an old text absolute despite the flat out scientific impossibility of them being right (except by pure chance) then they destroy all the ideals of a free society.

      Ironically a much more accurate reading can provably be derived by looking at past interpretations in court cases and tracing how they changed over time and changing in the same way for present questions. By simple scientiffic fact the majority in Obergefell for example was therefore more right than Scalia's originalism as they correctly noted that the meaning of marriage has changed many times in US history and should be intetpreted according to current knowledge and social norms. Exactly what the founding fathers intended: a living constitution that always reflects todays views.

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    46. Re:Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      "Interstate commerce clearly indicates any and all actual commercial transactions which actually involve parties in different states."

      Unfortunately that is not the case. There have been cases where the Supreme Court, in the most blatantly disgusting way, has held that the interstate commerce clause applied.

      "The Agriculture Adjustment Act of 1938 (AAA) set quotas on the amount of wheat put into interstate commerce and established penalties for overproduction. The goal of the Act was to stabilize the market price of wheat by preventing shortages or surpluses. Filburn (P) sold part of his wheat crop and used the rest for his own consumption. The amount of wheat Filburn produced for his own consumption combined with the amount he sold exceeded the amount he was permitted to produce.

      Secretary of Agriculture Wickard (D) assessed a penalty against him. Filburn refused to pay, contending that the Act sought to limit local commercial activity and therefore was unconstitutional because it exceeded the scope of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause." http://www.lawnix.com/cases/wi...

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    47. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Re rights: how about passing a new law versus trying to twist an old one to fit one's needs?

      Re 14th Amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Did that apply to native americans who were at war with the US. In other words were the Apaches and Sioux American citizens who were in rebellion? Obviously not. If not - to whom did "persons" apply to. AND, if it did not apply to native americans in the 1860s why are we expanding the definition today?

      What is speech? Is burning a building speech? How about a flag? What does speech mean?

      These discussions are not silly. It is part of what needs to be done at all times. Sometimes, for instance, words have a specific meaning to a specific time. Example: "cruel and unusual punishment" - This applies, not to the punishment itself (hanging, electrocution, imprisonment, fines, corporal punishment) but that the punishment to said individual is consistent with punishments handed out in other similar cases. For instance if the punishment for peeing on the sidewalk, is normally, a fine of $100.00 then placing someone in jail for 10 years would be cruel and unusual punishment. It is not the jail term that is "cruel and unusual" only that the punishment was "cruel and unusual" in comparison with other similar crimes.

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    48. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      And every one of your examples is better supported by precedent based applied reading than by originalism.
      No court today needs to determine if Apaches were citizens in 1840. But one may face a question on whether an Apache can run for president. That question would be best answered by analysing all court decisions on similar matters there are. And is likely to then conclude "yes" even thougj this was probably not possible in 1840.

      As for writing new laws. Like I said the founding fathers wanted a new constitution every decade or two. That got lost. A process via the supreme court has thus ended up filling much of the gap. You cannot conceivably remove that process unless you institute an alternative (Madisons desire or something else) first.

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    49. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      But the 14th A does apply to migrants who drop a kid and say that the child is an American citizen. Did the 14th A apply to this situation or only to whether or not ex-slaves were to be considered citizens? Notice the clause "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

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    50. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Standard principle of law dating all the way to the roman republic: a law applies to everyone not explicitely excluded. Confirmed that way through 2500 years of precedent.
      What you mean is "when the ammended was written did its authors forsee this modern question and consider it ?" And you want me to conclude "no... so it does not apply" but that conclusion is false. The right conclusion is "it does not matter. The law as written does not exclude anybody so it applies to everybody until repealed".

      The definition if marriage in US law has been changed at least 4 times since it was first written and never once has that been done through a new law. The court was merely, at each moment, applying the contemporary societal definition to the question before it.

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    51. Re:Corporate bias? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Ahh - you are correct. I will add that one of the reasons this number might be so much lower is conservatives are usually referred to as extreme right wingers.
      Change it to
      "you left wingers"
      About 8,750 results (0.49 seconds)
      "you right wingers"
      About 38,600 results (0.36 seconds)

      I'm sure we can play with this a lot.

    52. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Did the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" explicitly exclude anyone?

      I think it did.

      If no. Were the Sioux at Little Big Horn American citizens?

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    53. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Again... a purely academic question of historical interest only. Its answer is less than useless for answering imigration policy today.

      And its perfectly valid to interpret that phrase to mean 'as well as any other teritories under the jurisdiction of the government' which rather than exclude native americans would give citizenship to, for example, those born in American Samoa. Something they surely deserve. Hell more Somoans are veterans per capita than any other group or location in the US and the dont have a VA.

      Arguing which meaning was intended all those years ago is a futile effort. Its provably impossible to get it right. Instead it makes much more sense to deliberate on what tjose words ought to mean today. Both the originalist and non-originalist judges actually do that and only that anyway - but at least the latter is honest about it and their justifications can be asessed on merrit.

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    54. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's "impossible" to get right. Let's read the debates over the 14thA.

      Was all the discussion surrounding ex-slaves or did it include immigrants and indians. If the discussion was focused upon the newly freed slaves and their legal status then there it is: the 14th A refers to ex-slaves who were freed by the emancipation proclamation and the 13th A.

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    55. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Its not an opinion that its an impossible task. You are actually expecting judges to di something no history professor would dare. It cannot be done. Its as fundamentally beyond the ability of history as a science as a perpetual motion machine is beyond engineering.

      History 101: there is no such thing as historical fact. You have physical evidence but that proves nothing except the existence of itself and even that requires scepticism since hoaxes exist. What the evidence means ? Every theory is as good as every other. The 'orthodox' theory is whatever most historians consider the best argued theory. Overnight the orthodox theory can change (and regularly does) without a shred of new evidence - simply because some body had another idea on what the evidence means and could make a better argument to defend it.

      And you want judges to choose a right answer to historical questions ? You want them to make an objective determination on what somethings means ? By definition a subjective question.
      We will colonize the surface of the sun vefore any judge ever actually does what originalists think they can do.

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    56. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I have a graduate degree in history (medieval and early modern, in case it matters).

      It's done all the time. As a matter of fact it's being done to the point of ridiculousness. It's called giving "voice to the voiceless."

      I approach history as a case of evidence, especially while analyzing text. We have the historical record. We KNOW they were talking about newly freed slaves. We have tons of records:

      From the Congressional Record:

      mr. doolittle. That does not meet the case at all. If my friend maintains that at this moment the Constitution of the United States, without amendment, gives all the power you ask, why do you put this new amendment into it on that subject?

      mr. howard. If the Senator from Wisconsin wishes an answer, I will give him one such as I am able to give.

      mr. doolittle. I was asking the Senator from Maine.

      mr. howard. I was a member of the same committee, and the Senator's observations apply to me equally with the Senator from Maine. We desired to put this question of citizenship and the right of citizens and freedmen under the civil rights bill beyond the legislative power of such gentlemen as the Senator from Wisconsin, who would pull the whole system up by the roots and destroy it, and expose the freedmen again to the oppressions of their old masters.

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    57. Re: Corporate bias? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      And what proof do you have that this historical record has not been tampered with by 200 years of clerks in archives ? None.
      Clerks in congress today are regularly caught altering the current record and even adding entire clauses to laws that were never voted on. Do you think that would happen unless they mostly get away with it. What proof do you have the record was even accurately written down when we know for a fact that they routinely arent ?

      How can you be sure of your interpretation of that record when that depends on the meaning of every other phrase in there ? If any phrase's meaning is uncertain all phrases are. That doesnt prove your reading. It merely raises more unanswerable questions.

      Get a copy of the harcourt brace anthology of drama published before 2000. There is a paragrapg in there that declares that Greek actors wore high heels. But no copy published after that date includes this claim. Yet the evidence has not changed at all. The theory which was unremarkable and sound history during the many years it was included sprang from solid archeological proof. A figurine found in athens of an actor with spikes on the heels.
      It was removed when somebody suggested "maybe the spikes was just so you could pose the figurines on a board with holes drilled in it".
      At least as reasonable an interpretation of the evidence as the former standard theory. But its mere existence precludes stating either as absolute fact anymore.

      My history classes still taught that the minoan ruins many walls were mazelike and probably indicates that the complexity of the castle inspired the minotoar legend - the explanation first proposed when they were originally dug up. But that theory is almost universally rejected today. In fact most contemporary scholars dont think its a castle at all but a temple and the reliefs depict priests not a king.
      What will they be next year ?

      Its a conservative article of faith that the Weimar republics keynesian spending destroyed the economy and led to the rise of Hitler. But Hitler's 1921 coup failed because he lacked popular support. He never had majority support but he won a few seats in 1929... no doubt economic collapse opened the door... but not from spending. If the spending hadnt worked the coup would have succeeded but ina mere 3 years there was enough recovery to deny him success and he couldnt even get the minor support he leveraged into absolute power until he had the great depression to help him. Power he then solidified by greatly relieving the effects of the depression through a Keneysian spending plan.

      So which interpretation is true ? Neither is the answer. Real history s far too complex for either of these simple stories to be true. Neither considers the impact of the hitlerjugend for example - which was decidedly not an economic matter but definitely helped him gain power.

      History is a field of incredibly useful speculation. But facts ? The only subjects that ever offers those are entirely abstract ones like maths or fine art (and the kind of facts in the latter is usually only true for exactly one person at one moment in time - this photo is beautiful to me)

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    58. Re: Corporate bias? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      I agree that there is much interpretation - and you bring up an interesting point of altered records.

      But if words don't have meaning then of what use are they? Does it mean whatever the majority thinks it means? "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ..." Are there any exceptions there? No. The words have meaning.

      And context matters. All the Bill of Rights constrain the federal government. Why would anyone think that the 2nd A constrains individual ownership of weapons when context of the Bill of Rights (plus numerous other documents) clearly shows how to interpret the 2nd A clause "A well regulated militia ... "

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  2. How about "I wish they were debates" by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A joint press conference is not a debate. Trading insults in an unstructured (except for time) way is not a debate. BSing and not being able to get called on it is not a debate.

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    1. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by by+(1706743) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it would be kinda fun if candidates were allowed full use of their team during debates, and maybe even allowed to show multimedia if necessary (news reports, court rulings, etc.). It'd be complete chaos the first few times, but maybe after a while it'd get so that people wouldn't spew BS for fear of getting called out by their opponent right then and there, with irrefutable proof.

      Plus, debating is a skill that, in my opinion, is less indicative leadership than the ability to assemble a smart team.

    2. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      To "do it right", written debates would probably be better so that there is room and time for sufficient caveats, footnotes, citations, etc.

      However, most of the public won't care about that. TV debates are mostly a style and personality contest, not a substance and policy contest. TV debates are a very poor forum for the latter.

    3. Re: How about "I wish they were debates" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say that only because you're on the right. Sigh.

    4. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by boskone · · Score: 2

      honest question... why is "nationalistic" a bad thing?

      I want the politicians i'm elected to work int he best interests of MY country and OUR citizens.

      They can have a secondary goal to "help all mankind", but their job is to help their own country.

    5. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you propose would end up just like discussion at Reddit, Hacker News and even here at Slashdot. Those on the right will present cogent, researched, well-informed positions based on fact, logic and rational thought. Those on the left will ignore it all and scream about discrimination, intolerance, or how somebody somewhere might have possibly had their feelings hurt. Those in the center will watch this, thinking "What the hell is wrong with the left?!" Then those on the left will organize a downvote brigade and proceed to censor the centrists and the rightists.

      I know you're probably trolling, but really, it's more like:

      Those on the right will present antagonistic, fearful, nationalist positions while claiming that these are supported by their faith and the constitution. Those on the left will ignore it all and scream about discrimination, intolerance, or how somebody somewhere might have possibly had their feelings hurt. Those in the center will watch this, thinking "What is wrong with both of these crazy parties?!

      One comment is modded troll, the other is not. Q.E.D.

    6. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I'd be happy if there was some in-auditorium fact checker, so when someone spouts off with some nonsense that has been long disproven, they hit a big red button that sounds a loud game-show style buzzer, and it also cuts the mic of the candidate who is speaking, and they forfeit the remainder of their time for that question.

      I think a simple change like that would greatly increase the tone and substance of these debates.

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    7. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like no one will present cogent, researched, well-informed positions based on fact, logic and rational thought, those on the left and right will do nothing but scream about discrimination, intolerance, family values, war on X and Y, terrorist, and anything else they can think of. Those in the center will be thinking "what the hell is wrong with the left and right?!"

    8. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Puff the magic dragon lived by the sea,

    9. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by jandrese · · Score: 2

      Because in the long term pretending that you aren't part of the world is counterproductive. For the most extreme example see North Korea. Beyond that however there are several problems that require the cooperation of the entire world to address, and that's not possible if everybody is only looking out for #1. Resource depletion, pollution, and even global political stability are all things that can't be handled at the national level.

      --

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    10. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by shaitand · · Score: 1

      A carefully controlled forum in which only positions on the issues the two parties like to distract us with are allowed talking time might technically be a debate but who gives a damn about it?

    11. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "I think it would be kinda fun if candidates were allowed full use of their team during debates"

      You aren't under the impression they are winging it are you? They do have earpieces.

    12. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      -1 Stupid. The people on the far right are typically highly religious, and religion is the diametric opposite of rationality.

      You do have a point about far-leftists whining about their feelings being hurt though. The other responders are right: the people in the middle will all be watching this wondering, "WTF is wrong with these crazies?"

    13. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I agree with this but add to the game show buzzer with a mild electric shock. Not enough to permanently injure the candidates, but enough to stop them from speaking and make them experience some pain. (Of course, some politicians might develop an immunity to electric shocks, but we can cross that bridge later.)

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    14. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      The chance of inadvertently breeding a new race of electric-shock-resistant politicians notwithstanding, I like it!

    15. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm not sure how much more on-point the questions need to be. Examples of what's being left out?

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    16. Re:How about "I wish they were debates" by Livius · · Score: 1

      Have someone be able to throw a challenge flag, the one who's wrong forfeits participation in the following two debates. Professional sports make this sort of thing work, right?

    17. Re: How about "I wish they were debates" by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      There isn't a lot of actual nationalism on display in the US. Mostly what is smeared all over everything is jingoism. Nothing wrong with nationalism in a world comprised of discrete nations. The trick is finding any.

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  3. What are you complaining about ? by vikingpower · · Score: 1

    What with the usual bragging about a free market, neoliberalism and capitalism. Corporate bias for a candidate ? Neo-liberal version of capitalism. Live with it, or emigrate to Costa Rica, Europe, New Zealand.

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  4. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by JackieBrown · · Score: 0

    The sad thing is that many liberal will read this and it will play straight into their bias on how they think conservatives really think.

  5. That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Despite living in an area where Comcast has the government-granted monopoly, they are blocked by the city from offering service to our block. That means no Monday Night Football, limited college football, no HBO, etc.. That was merely a pain, but now that the cable companies are blocking us from part of the democratic process, it's getting intolerable.

    1. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People around here are anti-Internet so don't expect anything to improve for a long time. The city can't even fix sewer leaks, there's three within two blocks of my house, so don't expect telco infrastructure to ever be up to date.

    2. Re:That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would bet real bitcoins that you have not complained to the public utility commission governing your municipality about it.

    3. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even worse is that they don't allow downloading of content. I could download it and watch it later with my ISDN line, but streaming is impossible.

      And, this isn't the *one* bad thing about living in Seattle. There's also the hipsters.

    4. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish someone would sue the city of Seattle to try to put a stop to their blocking of access. When they use that to take our voice, they need to be stopped.

    5. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What!?! Seattle has been owned by the Democrats since forever. What do Republicans have to do with it? Oh, maybe you're a Bernie man and for 20 years have demanded free cable TV and Internet?

    6. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Seattle has been owned by the Democrats since forever. What do Republicans have to do with it?

      Six corporations own 90% of the U.S. media markets. Corporations tend to be conservative rather than liberal.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

      Even MSNBC is moving away from being a source of liberal news.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/02/msnbc-and-the-move-away-from-left-wing-tv/385798/

    7. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by PPH · · Score: 1

      Hey! This guy needs broadband more than you do. So just wait your turn.

      - Seattle City Council

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    8. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably meant that as a joke, but it's true:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/seattle-homeless-internet_n_6215632.html

      The city provides faster Internet access than I have at home or any of my friends have while passing even more restrictions for telcos and cable companies that want to upgrade equipment and cabling.

    9. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right about sewer leaks. I live in Queen Anne, and there's two leaks I know if on my block. We should be upgrading phone and cable while digging up the streets and yards, but the insanely long permitting process blocks that. In a couple of months I'm selling my house to move into an apartment that has gigabit. I can't work from home with dialup so despite the large cost, it's still worth it since I can save about six hours a week commuting.

    10. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The city can't even fix sewer leaks,...

      http://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/a-dirty-secret-side-sewers-can-become-a-homeowners-nightmare/

      My neighborhood has had continuous sewer-related construction since I moved here eight years ago. For most of the repairs, you have to dig-up the streets, but still the city won't let Comcast upgrade their wiring or pedestals so Internet access will work reliably. I understand the larger pedestals don't look good and the NIMBYs are strong here, but it's ridiculous. My neighborhood has fought for cable upgrades since before I moved here, and as far as I know, only one street has succeeded. People even petitioned CenturyLink to keep gigabit DSL out of the neighborhood.

    11. Re:That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lived in Seattle for nearly twenty years and was never able to get cable TV or Internet.

      I had cable in rural NC 35 years ago, but haven't had it once in the three places I've lived new downtown Seattle. It sucks living literally in the shadow of the tallest building in the city, but not having cable to the building. I understand that digging up city streets is very expensive, but it's more expensive to not have it. I've had quite a few friends move to 20+ miles outside of the city or to the bay area in order to live somewhere with better than dialup access.

    12. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd lose that bet. I donated money and office space to two candidates that ran against Kshama Sawant. She is pro-Microsoft, thus anti internet. She has supported even more limitations to Comcast and CenturyLink upgrades, and instead replace them with a city-controlled corporation that even she admits would never be able to cover everyone that doesn't currently have access.

    13. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Six corporations own 90% of the U.S. media markets. Corporations tend to be conservative rather than liberal."

      Nonsense. At least if you are implying the political parties typically called "conservative" and "liberal."

      The copyright, patent, and communication corporate cartels are openly and directly supported by D type spin. In practice if not spin their candidates also support the massive corporations in the defense (defense spending hasn't dropped under Obama), insurance, and healthcare industries (FDA granted immunity and high barrier to market entry, healthcare initiatives that require everyone to roll dice at the insurance casinos).

      The big players in industries complain about regulatory expenses while actually backdoor funding them. These expenses are a simple cost of doing business which are far far cheaper than competing with smaller more agile competitors. The regulatory agencies themselves are normally staffed directly from the ranks of these industries and given extremely lucrative golden parachute "consulting" or "lobbying" jobs at the end of their terms.

      Of course, the R's act in the interests of the same people they just do so with a different spin. The only reason you have both is to give the illusion of choice and having opposing spin means you can claim victory on the results that are consistent with your spin and blame the other guys for the compromises. But whichever way the spin flows, the actual results will always benefit the above corporations one way or another.

    14. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by operagost · · Score: 1

      Not sure who ever decided that crony capitalism was a conservative principle.

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    15. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. At least if you are implying the political parties typically called "conservative" and "liberal."

      It's nonsense because we don't have a liberal party in this country, we have a conservative party and a really conservative party.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    16. Re: That is one bad thing about living in Seattle by PPH · · Score: 1

      Gotta log onto that Silk Road 3.0.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  6. Primary? by bondsbw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wish there was a database to consult for complaints about the U.S. primary system, too.

    The problem with the primary system is that it matters so much. It wouldn't if there were more than 2 parties (and thus 2 candidates) that counted.

    To fix this we need to fix the US election system. Here's why that matters.

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    1. Re:Primary? by Ormy · · Score: 2

      Mod parent up for being correct and concise despite the link doesn't load any actual content. (If I have to enable questionable 3rd party domains in Noscript to see the main content of a page then that page has 'no content').

    2. Re:Primary? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      To fix this we need to fix the US election system.

      One solution is to use non-partisan open primaries, and then make the general election a run-off between the top two. This also eliminates the Spoiler Effect. Unfortunately, open primaries are unconstitutional.

    3. Re:Primary? by bondsbw · · Score: 2

      Here is a direct link to the first video (6.5 minutes long):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    4. Re:Primary? by bjdevil66 · · Score: 1

      In the spirit of those CGP Grey videos and major election reform, CA has gone to a "Top 2 vote getters for ANY party in the primary compete in the general election" primary system.

    5. Re:Primary? by TopherC · · Score: 1

      I don't see much activity on this front, but I like the material at rangevoting.org. I wonder what the status is of current efforts to get range voting implemented in the US?

      They make an interesting argument that it's better to lobby for range voting than approval voting, because it's a little harder to repeal. The graph at the bottom of the home page, for me, is a shockingly strong argument. With the plurality system, we do not do much better than picking a winner at random. If we actually value democracy, we should place more emphasis on this issue. The electoral college system is also badly flawed, but I'd honesly go after the voting system first.

      I think challenging the two-party system (a stable equilibrium of plurality voting) is extremely important for political debate because, for one, mud-slinging is most effective when there are only two viable candidates. At rangevoting.org they argue that range voting helps independents more than any of the other systems considered.

    6. Re:Primary? by laughingskeptic · · Score: 2

      The Republicans and our Supreme Court may well have destroyed the US's two party system by removing the constraints on political funding. The Republicans shortsightedly thought that they would be the primary benefactors of unrestrained political spending. We are seeing the results. The party no longer dictates the flow of money. Anyone who can tap one deep pocket can make a go of it. 8 years ago, Rubio would have been cut off from funding and forced to exit the election by the party. The party no longer has this control. Now the impotency of the party just has to sink in to the national consciousness. Once it is realized that the parties no longer control the money, they will become much less relevant in this new political funding landscape.

    7. Re:Primary? by rsborg · · Score: 2

      To fix this we need to fix the US election system.

      One solution is to use non-partisan open primaries, and then make the general election a run-off between the top two. This also eliminates the Spoiler Effect. Unfortunately, open primaries are unconstitutional.

      Open primaries are not a panacea. You need to have more than 2 real choices, or those two who are chosen will just end up being the targets for the real bribes (arhhrm - lobbying - sorry, forgot my US lingo).

      You need single transferrable vote, or some other voting system change that eliminates the basic FPTP approval voting (Condorcet method is what's used by smart groups, though Instant Runoff is good as well).

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    8. Re:Primary? by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      Agreed, I like range voting a bit better too. I would also consider the ranked voting methods. Just about anything over plurality.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    9. Re:Primary? by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      One solution is to use non-partisan open primaries, and then make the general election a run-off between the top two.

      Thereby eliminating any chance for anyone on a non-mainstream party from ever holding office again. If you can't make the top-two, you don't stand a chance.

      It's also pretty easy to create a pathological case where your system results in the worst people being elected, so no, it isn't a solution either.

      There is nothing wrong with parties using primaries to choose their candidates and then the election being held to pick which of the several candidates that leaves. You may want to have a way in who the Republican party candidate is because you don't want them to have any chance at getting elected, but if you aren't a Republican (or Democrat for Democrat primaries) you have no business being involved in the primary for the other party. You get to pick YOUR best candidate.

      For the OP who wants to complain about the primaries themselves and not just the television shows that are called "debates", there is a place to complain. It's called your own state legislature. Each state's primary system is under the control of the state. If you don't like the way your state does it, talk to your elected state officials.

      As for complaining that some television shows are held on cable networks and some on broadcast, well, television is television. I'd really like it if all NHL games were on broadcast TV, but should the FCC force the NHL to sell broadcast rights only to the major networks for OTA use only? I'd consider that a vast overstepping of the authority of the FCC, as would I consider them forcing the debate sponsors into an exclusive OTA rights deal.

    10. Re:Primary? by TopherC · · Score: 1

      I'm worried that half-measures like this do more harm than good, because they can create dissatisfaction with voting reform efforts. Get it right, and do the math. Start with replacing plurality / first-past-the-post with any other system. CA's system by itself will probably cause havoc because of the spoiler effect. I like reweighted range voting best for multi-seat elections, but would be happy with transferrable votes and probably others as well.

    11. Re:Primary? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      The Republicans and our Supreme Court may well have destroyed the US's two party system by removing the constraints on political funding.

      The US doesn't have a two-party system. The US has two varyingly successful parties. The US system is the one described by the constitution (and to a certain extent the sub-systems described by the constitutions of the 50 states). That constitutional system is completely silent on the matter of people assembling into political parties and taking advantage of shared resources in order to get behind a potential candidate that they like. To the contrary: the constitution expressly forbids the government from getting in the way of political speech, assembly, etc.

      Which is why striking down McCain-Feingold (which was exactly an example of the government shutting people up as they tried to express their political views and support) was perfectly in keeping with the constitution's very first and most important amendment. Are you really thinking that the country had been laboring under McCain-Feingold's capricious limits on political support and speech all along, and it was suddenly ripped away? No. It was a fairly recent piece of legislation, it was loudly protested as being counter-constitutional when it was established, and it failed a test of its constitutionality in a plain-as-day case government muzzling someone's political film making.

      The Republicans shortsightedly thought that they would be the primary benefactors of unrestrained political spending.

      No, they thought that it was unconstitutional to tell you personally that depending on the date on the calendar, you weren't allowed to speak your mind. Or that your ability to offer your political support would be allowed or squashed depending on what sort of business your run or group you form.

      If you think the first amendment should be waived so that government can shut up the people you don't like to hear from (but not you or the people you like), then you're going to have to propose something a lot more clever than McCain-Feingold, which never passed the 1A smell test.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    12. Re:Primary? by laughingskeptic · · Score: 1

      You have falsely convolved free speech and money. Are all bribe givers now merely free-speakers?

      Until now, money in politics has long been regulated: https://www.washingtonpost.com... . McCain-Feingold may have been an overreach, but the Supreme Court's resulting decision was extreme and not only struck down McCain-Feingold but also effectively killed other finance regulations going all the way back to 1907's Tillman Act. I stick by my assertion that we are in a new era of campaign finance and that we are going to see more of these multicandidate races and I believe this will evolve into multicandidate non-party races.

    13. Re:Primary? by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Here here!

    14. Re:Primary? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      You have falsely convolved free speech and money. Are all bribe givers now merely free-speakers?

      No, you're falsely equating running an ad to say you're in favor of politicians that (for example) want to protect consumer encryption products from government mandated back doors with somehow bribing those same people.

      Which mechanism for putting money into a politician's campaign fund do you find to be suddenly un-regulated? Or are you confusing your right to run an ad that says you approve of a given political point of view (or that you disapprove of one) with putting money directly into a politician's pocket, as a bribe?

      I believe this will evolve into multicandidate non-party races

      So what? Are you worried that you are too weak-minded to still vote for the person you prefer, even when the Sierra Club, or AARP, or the NRA shows you an expensively produced ad trying to convince you otherwise? Let's cut to the chase: your real issue here is that you think everyone but you can't be trusted to vote with a purpose.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    15. Re:Primary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a US city that's 99% likely to adopt Reweighted Range Voting next week. Not for public elections, but the city government using it to vote on legislative priorities.

    16. Re:Primary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the primary system is that it matters so much. It wouldn't if there were more than 2 parties (and thus 2 candidates) that counted.

      There are more than 2. The system has many failures including public - direct or indirect - financing/supporting of campaigns, esp via FCC-regulated mechanisms.

      Your failure to count is not one of the failings. As far as fixes ... I wonder if a 1st choice/2nd choice might work where 1st choice is awared 1 vote and 2nd choice is awarded 0.5 votes. So a big H supporter might give 1 vote to H and zero to anybody else (which maximally supports H). Someone on the fence might - not feeling the burn but a slight warming sensation - can give the big H 1 vote and the B, 0.5 votes. The same can work at the general election where partisans might only give out 1 vote (R or D, likely) but the idealouges might give out 1/2 a vote (or a full vote!) to a 3rd party. Fencesitters can acutally support R&D - which they do anyway, statistically. At least this might encourage them to think about alternatives.

      Of course, I have no idea the failure modes for this and don't anticipate tweaks to change the culture overnight. It is the culture - IMO - that is 99% of the problem. People seem to think picking the winner gets them a prize it won't. Or more bizzare, they think their one vote among millions will flip the election this way or that way. It won't.

  7. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    he sad thing is that many liberal will read this and it will play straight into their bias on how they think conservatives really think.

    Heh. Is that reaaally the fault of the biased liberal?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  8. FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I wish there was a database to consult for complaints about what a waste of oxygen timothy is.

  9. perhaps you dont understand the purpose? by nimbius · · Score: 1

    the candidate debates arent meant as a meaningful or informative approach to education of the viewer as to the appropriate policical candidate to select for office. Debates drive ad revenue and clickthrough rate for major media corporations, which in turn fuel contributions to candidates the networks deem fit-for-purpose to operate the nation. As for allegations of corporate bias, this is intended. you may be voting for a candidate, but through a convoluted system of redistricting, superdelegates, electoral colleges, shadow donors, overt print television and radio bias, and voter ID and registration regulation as a form of vote-suppression the real candidates you are in fact to choose from are quietly selected for you.

    This isnt to say major corporations want you to vote for their candidate, far from the case. the plutocratic class wants you to want to vote for their candidate. Without you overtly insisting your support, the entire concept of voting is revealed to be a sham. The most egregious theme of american elections however is this: even without a majority turnout of americans, and with that minority still largely uninformed and voting on personal opinion at best, the united states continues to elect a president and that president continues to be one for which overwhelming support by a corporate citizenry is undeniably afforded.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:perhaps you dont understand the purpose? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you don't understand the complaint. It's nice to know you have your head up your ass but it would probably help to take it out once in a while.

  10. Diseased agencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The FCC is just as politically tainted as the Department of Justice, EPA, IRS, BLM, DHS, HHS, HUD, SSA, VA and the rest of Obama's diseased agencies. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Their man Obama benefited from the same corrupt media treatment in the last 2 elections. He still does.

    1. Re:Diseased agencies by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Their man Obama benefited from the same corrupt media treatment in the last 2 elections.

      Let me guess... because he's a... millionaire?

    2. Re:Diseased agencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TLDR: Someone not on my team runs things, so everything's corrupt.

  11. Silly Americans by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    If you can't afford cable you shouldn't be voting. Jokes aside, it's nice to see all the anti establishment fervor plus some of the old alliances ( the rich and evangelicals for one) breaking down. Maybe we'll see some real change.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  12. Content should be accessible both ways by unixisc · · Score: 2

    I have internet access but no TV. I tried watching the debates live on YouTube, and have only sometimes been successful. I wonder why CNN or FNC or the other channels don't either stream LIVE (for NON-cable subscribers) or allow live streaming feeds on YouTube.

    Content wise, they're being paid for it either way - whether I watch it on TV or on Internet, the channel is still getting paid. Even the carriers - Charter in my case - are being paid regardless of whether I watch it over TV or over the internet. I just don't see the arguments from the Carrier POV of forcing people to get a cable connection to view content that can also be available online.

  13. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    Why are you feeding the troll?

    As a good rule of thumb, ignore Anonymous Cowards.

  14. Parties are private groups, not government by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At this stage of the game, the internal dealings of a political party isn't any different than the internal dealings of the local bowling club. People are free to assemble and do what they want on their own terms. If that happens to include choosing CNN to host their debate, so what? That's no different than a club renting out a church basement or local legion hall for their monthly meeting. A political party is a private association of people who are, among themselves, deciding who they might want to put forward as a candidate in a general election.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Parties are private groups, not government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As long as they accept tax money to run these primaries (http://ivn.us/2015/07/30/story-behind-pay-party-primaries/), they can be told by the public how to run those primaries.

  15. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it my fault if I believe the rest of the world is populated by savages because I've only ever watched the national geographic channel? Yes, yes it is. As it is for me paying too much attention to a TV channel, it means they pay too much attention to CNN and never bother to go out and actually meet and converse with a real life conservative.

  16. Can we have a Young Turks/Slashdot/Reddit debate? by gQuigs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd really like to see debates run not by the 6 largest media companies.. They have a vested interest in keeping money *in* politics (because they get a lot of it!)

  17. My biggest gripe w/ the US primaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't like any of the 5 remaining viable candidates, yet I feel compelled by my civic duty to vote.

    Where is "none of the above/uncommitted" when you need it?

    Yes, I do know that bothering to show up at the poll but abstaining from the Presidential race is a legitimate way of protesting, but it's not nearly as satisfying as "none of the above."

    Also, there are down-ballot races on one of the major party's primaries where I do feel good about supporting at least one candidate over his/her competitors.

  18. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    Is it my fault if I believe the rest of the world is populated by bare-breasted women because I've only ever watched the national geographic channel?

    FTFY

  19. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

    Is it my fault if I believe the rest of the world is populated by savages because I've only ever watched the national geographic channel?

    I would just like to point out the hilarity of you bringing this up without asserting that NatGeo misrepresented the 'savages'. Thank you for supporting my point. ;)

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  20. Top-two primaries are used in several states by davidwr · · Score: 1
    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  21. There's no line to draw here by tgibson · · Score: 1

    Having read the article (don't be afraid to read, the article's quite short), the analysis shows that the complaints are coming from left, and right, and center. It even includes a bit of "conspiracy theory" about someone whose cable went out during two debates and suspects foul play. For all the ills of corporate-run media, the alternative is government-run media which itself has negative connotations derived from examples in history. Even the putatively benevolent PBS is considered biased by large swaths of the population. For the issue of who hosts debates, I see no solution that is better than the current landscape. There are certainly different approaches, but not better.

    Regarding requiring paid cable. I believe this is a more valid complaint. That said, an argument can be made that even free broadcast requires one to support manufacturers by purchasing their radios and TVs. So then we ban the airwaves altogether and force candidates to speak loudly in an open-air theater. (We can't have sound support, that's to submit to the sound-system manufacturer's cartel!).

    Before I wander off mumbling to myself, I will say that all this fist-shaking and hand-wringing over corporate influence, the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, money in politics, etc. seems a waste of energy better spent elsewhere. No amount of money or corporate influence helped Jeb Bush, and Hillary's many years of grooming the electorate hasn't made her journey to the general election the cake walk everyone expected. The unprecedented nature of this election cycle is a wonderful counterexample to so many arguments that have been made across the political spectrum.

    1. Re:There's no line to draw here by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      "That said, an argument can be made that even free broadcast requires one to support manufacturers by purchasing their radios and TVs. "

      That high school education paying off for you. Wow just wow. It's called commercials - look them up sometime. That's what pays for content on TV.

    2. Re:There's no line to draw here by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Wow just wow. It's called commercials - look them up sometime. That's what pays for content on TV.

      You can't watch OTA TV without a TV. You have to support some manufacturer by buying a TV, but you don't have to watch the ads.

      A more important reason why the "OTA" argument fails is that by forcing the debates to OTA you keep anyone who cannot receive the major networks from seeing the debates. I'm one of them. I get two PBS, two Fox, a CW and something even less mainstream OTA.

      Any argument you make for where the debates must be carried leaves some people out.

  22. All the little people don't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you still believe individuals elect Presidents of the US you've been smokin' too much Colorado weed. For one nobody but Trump is bankrolling almost all of his campaign so far. Not Hillary Clinton or Sanders, or Cruz, or anyone else. Among those who basically are in the wealthy hands of big donors. That my friends goes to the Clinton's. Not only that but the Super Pac's end up forking a lot of the bill for the smear ads in media and the "town hall" campaigning is simply a means to make the little guy feel important.The real money was had long ago in private super expensive dinners people like Hillary have months, years before the campaign kicks off. What popular Donald Trump has yet to realize that he may have the people's vote, but because he fails at being in the pockets of special interests he won't have a chance. Trump and Sanders threaten the boys club and carefully mated marriage between government and big business. Clinton, Cruz, Rubio, they are all in on it.

    1. Re:All the little people don't matter by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      So that explains Romney's loss.....

    2. Re:All the little people don't matter by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because spending untold millions of dollars in this primary has had a correlation of who's doing the best. Ask Jeb! how that worked out for him.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  23. Can't be a debate by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    A joint press conference is not a debate. Trading insults in an unstructured (except for time) way is not a debate. BSing and not being able to get called on it is not a debate.

    It can't be a real debate. A real debate requires that each of them be trying to persuade a fairly neutral party who has the power to shut them down and the intelligence to recognize when they are bullshitting. That way they have to actually know facts and understand how to use them to present their position. Pretty much the only time it ever happens is in the appellate courts.

    1. Re:Can't be a debate by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      You think it's impossible because you cannot find a fairly neutral party? A smart person who wants to moderate them?

      I would think that there's a ton of potential solution, if we give up on "the power to shut them down" And I don't know why that would be important. If you have five minutes, and 4:20 of them are spent on lies, then you looked dumb for 4:20

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Can't be a debate by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

      No; it's impossible because they need to have an incentive to communicate an answer, which they don't have. They expressly have incentives to talk past one another and score cheap points. They have no need to convince a neutral, intelligent person. Because of that the debates are exercises in not intelligently addressing problems, but rather in sounding to a wide and largely uninformed audience that you are capable of doing so. (Even most of the really smart audience members are not deeply educated on the particular problems that are being addressed. Any time you are well-educated about *anything* the candidates talk about, nine times out of ten you understand know there are, at best, profound flaws in their talking points about it.)

  24. 3 billy goats gruff by Archfeld · · Score: 2

    What is sadder is that you wasted your time responding to an obvious troll, that put very little effort into his or her post. Don't feed the trolls and they will crawl back under bridge from which they spawned.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    1. Re:3 billy goats gruff by bjwest · · Score: 1

      Don't feed the trolls and they will crawl back under bridge from which they spawned.

      Unfortunately, no they won't. May as well have some fun with them.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
    2. Re:3 billy goats gruff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's even sadder than that is that he complained about liberals generalizing about conservatives by generalizing about how liberals behave.

    3. Re: 3 billy goats gruff by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      We've been dealing with trolls... well, pretty much forever. Lots of fun to be had. No actual need to get pushy. A light hand is customary here (well, except for moderation, but of course that's completely broken, so it gets ignored a lot. Moderation without accountability and that permanently submerges perfectly good comments on a very regular basis can never be worth a tinker's damn.)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    4. Re: 3 billy goats gruff by Archfeld · · Score: 1

      Get off my lawn !!! It is kind of funny we used to call them Llamas because they were so very lame, but times change and people get older but not wiser. As for moderation I agree totally. I've been hanging here for many years, through several owners, things have been better, gotten worse and then just plain weird but all along I've enjoyed the side-show. I just hate to feed such an unskilled and obvious troll. Make them at least exert some effort. Cheers fyngyrz

      --
      errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  25. YouTube by NotInHere · · Score: 1

    I don't know whether its legal, but I find all the debates I hear about in the news on youtube. In fact, I even can't subscribe to a cable plan, as I don't live in the USA.

  26. Feeding the trolls ... by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Hey, it's April Fools Day +/- 1, that is, + a month and minus a day, so here's some troll-food for laughs, bold is where I fixed it for you

    Here's a list of inconvenient facts[citation needed] that liberals and Slashdotters love to deny:

    There is no evidence that humans evolved from any animal, ape or otherwise. The evidence of humans evolving from other Homo species and other primates is similar in strength to other this-animal-evolved-from-that-one evidence, where the animals are similarly related and both diverged as far back as modern man diverged from other Homo species and from other primates. The fact that you only call out humans and not all animal evolution is very telling of your likely bias. God created humans as they are today. I assume you mean as they were 4+ thousand years ago, because if he created me as I am today, why do I have memories of being a child? Oh, I get it, God created me as I am today, with those memories of events that never happened already existing. Thanks for the edumacation [NOT].
    Geologic evidence shows the Earth is between 6,000 and 10,000 years old. While there may be some evidence to support this claim, the evidence to support a claim of a 4+ billion-year-old earth, or at least a many-millions-of-years-old earth, is much more consistent and compelling This lines up perfectly with the Bible. I will grant you that the best scholarship puts the age of the Bible at less than 10,000 years old
    Humans lived on the Earth alongside the dinosaurs. Their fossilized remains are frequently found at the same level in the ground. Strata alone does not prove co-existence. It is evidence that cannot be merely brushed aside, and scientists have an obligation to try to offer theories as to why two things would be in the same strata that are just as testable as the theory that they co-existed.
    The Earth is nearly flat. Much of the supposed evidence for a round Earth is actually the result of optical illusions caused by the atmosphere.Given the pictures we have from space, I don't even know how to respond, other than to say "Bless your heart".
    The sun and the oceans regulate global temperature. Human activity has a negligible effect on the Earth's temperature. You are technically correct, in the sense that +/- several degrees C allegedly caused by human behavior is noise given that without the sun, we would be several hundred degrees C colder and without the ocean, the temperature profile of the planet would be vastly different. However, that difference of a few degrees C has non-negligible effects on both human and non-human life.
    Historical cycles in Earth's temperature shows that the Earth is far more likely to experience another ice age in the next century than global warming.[citation needed]

    You can thank me later for telling it like it is. I would, if you were. I did, and you can.

    ----

    For the record: I am a Bible-believing Christian who knows Jesus died for my sins (and yours too - but if you don't believe me I'm not going to bother you about it unless you want me to) and goes to church several times a week (not that going to church makes you a Christian any more than being in a car makes you a driver). I also accept that either the universe is about 13B years old and the planet is about 4.5B years old -OR- that God, in his infinite wisdom, made it look that way for a good reason. Setting up the world to look that way so Christians could argue with each other doesn't seem like the kind of "goodness" that the God I worship values. So, the world may very well be 4 thous

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re: Feeding the trolls ... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      And I'm a cradle of filth fan who knows Jesus is a cunt.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    2. Re: Feeding the trolls ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: Jesus is a cunt.

      That's odd - every person I've known with that name CLAIMED to be a male. Not that I bothered to check.

  27. Re: Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your coat's on fire.

  28. Should have been ... by PPH · · Score: 2

    ... on pay per view. I want to see a combination debate/WWE event. And watch Trump take on Brock Lesnar

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Should have been ... by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      Better yet, have him take on Ronda Rousey or Holly Holm. Ooh, tag-team!

  29. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Take that statement, correct the grammar, then swap out the liberal and conservative parts leaving the rest intact and it still works!

    If there is one thing that seems pretty clear it's that Sanders and Trump are both hated by the elite of their party and the sleeping giant of "None of the above" voters are starting to notice and believe they might be viable ways to strike back at them. Both those who normally vote lesser of two evils within the parties and those who don't think it matters because they all do the same crap with different spin.

    Are these guys really any different? I doubt it but their success just on the perception they are combined with the appearance voting for them could rock the boat is enough to send a serious message.

  30. Re:Can we have a Young Turks/Slashdot/Reddit debat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can see it now

    Slashdot Moderator: If you were to implement universal health care, what programming language would you use to create the government portal?

    Reddit Moderator: Which Meme best describes your position cat videos?

  31. It doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the clown show debates for this year's election prove anything it's that this two part system just doesn't work. Vote third party, vote independent, vote for a write-in, vote for someone who really is a good choice, but for the love of God whatever you do don't vote for "the lesser of two evils" and don't vote for a name or the letter in parentheses beside it. Become informed and make a smart choice. Vote because the candidate deserves it, not because they are part of a particular party. Stop thinking that if you can only choose from two people and anyone else is "throwing away your vote", because the reality is that we are stuck that way because everyone thinks that way, but that can change once we start to think differently. Please think. Our future and the future of our children depend on it.

  32. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    If there is one thing that seems pretty clear it's that Sanders and Trump are both hated by the elite of their party and the sleeping giant of "None of the above" voters are starting to notice and believe they might be viable ways to strike back at them.

    Only half true. The sleeping giant of "white people without a college degree" (and a bunch who do) are indeed waking up and voting for Trump in the primaries. It looks very much like Trump will win the GOP nomination.

    However, on the Democratic side, it appears this isn't the case. While the Bernie supporters are putting up a good fight, it just isn't enough: outside of states that already aspire to be like Denmark and don't have any black people, the Democratic voters are voting for Hillary in droves, and apparently minorities are really leading the way here. It's great that roughly 1/3 of them are voting for Bernie, but that doesn't help when the other 2/3 are voting for Mrs. Goldman-Sachs. For some strange reason, the minorities (particularly blacks) are turning their backs on the guy who marched with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr (in the "March on Washington" where King delivered his famous "I have a dream" speech) and instead voting for the woman who called young African-American men "super-predators" and helped push legislation that has destroyed black families. It's mind-boggling.

    As best as I can tell, what we're seeing here is the dumb older generations of Democratic voters screwing over the younger generations because they're gullible enough to believe Hillary's lies and desperately want to see a female--any female--in the White House before they're dead, even if she's a blatantly corrupt, ultra-wealthy war hawk who'll sign disastrous trade deals like the TPP and further push policies to spy on Americans with the NSA, and most likely start yet another war in the middle east, destabilizing the area even more, increasing the power of ISIS/Boko Haram, and resulting in the deaths of millions.

    Based on all this, Trump actually looks like the rational choice in November. At least he called Bush's Iraq war "stupid", unlike Hillary who voted for it.

  33. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by bjwest · · Score: 1

    The sad thing is that many liberal will read this and it will play straight into their bias on how they think conservatives really think.

    The real sad thing about this is that there is a, unfortunately not small, portion of the population that actually believes this. Well, maybe not the flat earth part, but the rest is gospel truth and gospel truth wins out over actual truth to them.

    --

    --- Keep the choice with the user..
  34. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real problem that the Democrat and Republican parties are facing is that they each have an outsider candidate, who is not part of their party but just "running as" a member, who is either blowing everyone else out (Trump) or putting up a much more substantial fight than expected (Sanders). If the election actually came down to Sanders versus Trump there would be a lot of democrats and republicans looking around feeling like they don't have a candidate in the election, and rightly so. That's the conclusion to the Democrat policy of "more Obama" and the Republican policy of "stop Obama". It's not all about Obama, and plenty of people want to move in a completely different direction than where either party wants to go. You can still see it with the Republican-majority Congress vowing to just stonewall any attempt by the president to do his job and nominate a new SC justice. Congress is there to do a job that they are just outright refusing to do because the other guy is Obama, and it seems stupid to a lot of people. Or the dozens of times that republicans have tried to repeal or cripple Obamacare, knowing full well that Obama will veto any attempt. They know that they are wasting their time, and they do it anyway instead of actually getting anything done. The people watching that happen are the kinds of people who are voting for Trump or Sanders.

    At this point it's not unthinkable that Trump fails to secure the majority he needs to be the nominee, it goes to the brokered convention, the convention votes to nominate a different person, Trump breaks off as an independent and takes 40% or whatever of Republican voters with him, the Democrats anoint Hillary, Sanders says F this and signs on as an independent, and then Bloomberg jumps in for good measure to stir the pot a little more. A general election with 5 major candidates, in addition to people like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, might be what we need at this point. The two-party bickering has reached a level that is no longer sustainable, and that's why Sanders and Trump are where they are.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  35. I wish... by KenHansen · · Score: 1

    I wish there was a database to consult for complaints about the U.S. primary system, too.

    There is, it's called Facebook...

  36. Re:Can we have a Young Turks/Slashdot/Reddit debat by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

    So do it. Nothing is stopping you from trying. You'll need enough money to produce it, and enough media presence to guarantee an audience sufficient to get the candidates to spend their time. Note that those last two requirements, if met, will mean that you, too, will have a vested interest in keeping money in politics because you, too, will be getting your cut of the pie.

  37. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by shaitand · · Score: 2

    You are confusing the primaries with the actual election. In most states people who are not registered as democrats aren't allowed to vote in their primaries. Polling among the general population of registered voters shows Bernie as being the most favored candidate across the board by a wide margin at 60% and solidly beating all Republican candidates on a head to head election basis by a solid margin. Hillary only beats Trump and only by 3% and loses to all other candidates.

    The primaries are far from over. Obama was losing after super tuesday as well. It would help if he announced Warren as his running mate. Sanders is a very old man, his VP has a good chance of becoming President, especially if he went a second term.

  38. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by shaitand · · Score: 1

    "The real problem that the Democrat and Republican parties are facing is that they each have an outsider candidate, who is not part of their party but just "running as" a member, who is either blowing everyone else out (Trump) or putting up a much more substantial fight than expected (Sanders). If the election actually came down to Sanders versus Trump there would be a lot of democrats and republicans looking around feeling like they don't have a candidate in the election, and rightly so."

    You say that like it's a bad thing and isn't the very reason Trump and Sanders have so much support. Obama won just saying the word "change" people actually want change, for real, the population wants the establishment out. Coming up very soon 80% of congress seats will be up for re-election and the chance to oust these guys is upon us.

    If Bloomberg jumps in the polls show it hurts Hillary but not Sanders. If either Trump OR Sanders drop for whatever reason while the other is still in, a good portion of their support might jump ship to the other. And things could change drastically after the primaries because in most states voters are locked into whatever they said when they registered and independent means no dice. Polls show less than half the general (registered voter) population like Hillary OR Trump while Sanders is the most favored by a large margin at 60% and solidly beats all other candidates head-to-head in a general election by solid margins. Hillary beats only Trump and only by 3% while trailing any of the other potential Republicans by a few percent.

  39. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    I'm not confusing the primaries with the actual election. That's great that some polls show Bernie as being favorable to a wide swath of American voters, but the problem is that our shitty Presidential election system isn't designed to capture the desires of mainstream voters, it's rigged to perpetuate a corrupt, two-party system and keep people like Bernie out. Bernie has to win the Democratic primaries in order to go to the general election, so people registered as Democrats need to vote for him to make that happen. If they don't, then he's out, or he has to run as an independent which is unlikely (I'm pretty sure he said he wouldn't do that). If there's one thing I don't like about Bernie, it's that he's much too soft on Hillary (as Ralph Nader noted in his blog). Maybe he'll change his mind; it'd be interesting to see a 3-way race between Hillary, Trump, and Bernie.

    Bernie is old, but he's not that much older than Hillary or Trump. Bernie is 74, Trump is 69, and Hillary is 68. There's a 6-year difference between Bernie and Hillary. The age thing is a canard that anti-Bernie people are using to attack him. Maybe if you're a Cruz or Rubio supporter it's a somewhat valid charge, but if you're a Hillary shill, then no, it's not valid at all. Hillary has had a bunch of health problems and is likely to keel over sooner than Bernie.

    However, I do thank you for pointing out that Obama was also losing after Super Tuesday, that's a very good point.

  40. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Um, I'm not a lawyer like you, but I thought the problem with a wide-open 4-person (or more) race like what you're describing is that no one would win enough electoral votes, and then the House of Representatives would choose the President.

    Otherwise, I think your analysis is spot-on.

  41. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    Right, but the Democrats don't want to nominate Bernie because then there wouldn't be a Democrat in the election, similar to the Republican side.

    I like that people want actual change, I've been pushing for it for the last 5 years or so. In this election I would vote for Sanders or Johnson (or maybe Stein), but none of the others appeal to me. I'd like to see both Bernie and Trump run even if they don't get the party nomination, because I want to see a change in the election and debate system. People deserve to have more than 2 choices, we need to get away from the system where people vote against someone because there isn't a viable candidate that they feel actually represents their beliefs. A big part of moving away from that system involves major televised presidential debates featuring people with something other than a D or R after their names, the Commission on Presidential Debates needs to get shut out of the system in favor of actual choice. I'd love to see Sanders, Trump, Bloomberg, Johnson, Stein, Clinton, and whatever Republican all on the same stage having an actual debate about substance, it would be the best election season in memory and it would force the CoPD to either change its ways or be passed by.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  42. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    I don't think that's a reason to remove choice from the popular vote. It might be a reason to get rid of the electoral college, but it's not a reason to restrict choice. If I were the dictator then the general election would have Sanders, Trump, Clinton, Bloomberg, Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, and whoever the Republicans decide to send. If the House wants to make someone president who got 5% of the popular vote instead of someone who got 30%, then I'd like to see what happens after that. I think several of those representatives would have to head back home and try to justify why they did what they did.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  43. Re:Can we have a Young Turks/Slashdot/Reddit debat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing will stop you from doing it. Here are two huge things that will stop you from doing it...

  44. Re:Can we have a Young Turks/Slashdot/Reddit debat by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

    If the difference between the words "doing" (your word), and "trying" (my word) confuse you, I suggest a dictionary.

  45. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I'm not arguing in favor of the current (broken) system, I just stated what I understood to be the (crappy) electoral process as stated in the Constitution. Am I incorrect?

    I'm all for eliminating the Electoral College. In fact, I'm all for eliminating the Constitution itself and replacing it with a better one. This one is completely broken. I think we should switch to a Parliament, like every other developed nation has, and at the same time implementing some type of better voting system for ALL elections.

  46. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you, AC. This ignorance is what leads to the year from hell. It gets better, trust me. I am a time traveler from the year 2042. My mission is to study the effects that John Titor's radical acts had on divergence measurements and the Stein's threshold.

    I became deeply concerned when my divergence measurements jumped a full 0.5% from 2016-02-29 18:00 to 2016-03-02 6:00. This is unprecedented. I do not think it bodes well. Granted that's an almost 2% chance that Clinton will not be the next president, and my prior recollections may not be entirely predictive concerning this worldline.

    I found this YouTube video that accurately portrays what will happen when the year from hell starts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... . At least 2 billion lives were lost to starvation during that year. There was nothing we could do. Our best engineers and biologists worked around the clock to save the rest of us. We value human knowledge in the year 2042, for it was the only thing to save us from extinction.

    My own mission is to observe new perturbations in order to test our Stein's threshold theory. Personally, I do not think the Stein's threshold can be crossed, not with technology that exists in 2042. Give or take 50 years, the year from hell will happen.

    Stay away from major cities beginning around 2019. There will be no elections in 2020, that is certain whether Clinton or Trump are the next president.

    The walk to the gas station will be for your own good.

    UNLESS

  47. Why not a straight up Jeopardy quiz show format? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps combine entertainment with serious opportunity for candidates to show us what they're actually made of, if questions were well designed. (With goofiness to lighten it up, maybe a musical guest. Im thinking Sabado Gigante guy as MC. ) Hell, just cast 'em on all the game shows, for that matter and let 'em at it. Who would'nt love that? The categories you could come up with. . . It could help reduce the rancor and show us how they think . . on their toes. . or who has a working brain cell. . . . or a heartbeat.

  48. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by shaitand · · Score: 1

    74 vs 68 may not seem like a huge gap but gender comes into play here. Men simply do not live as long.

  49. Re:Inconvenient truths the liberals won't address by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    It looks like the 12th amendment spells that out. It says that if no one gets a majority of the electoral college votes, then the House will choose the president. Each state gets a single vote (not each representative), and only the 3 highest vote getters from the general election are eligible. This part:

    a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.

    Sounds to me like 2/3 of the states need to be present in order for a vote to occur, and that someone needs a majority to be elected. If the House fails to elect a new president then the previous vice president takes over as if the president had died.

    So, maybe Biden will get to be president after all. I admit, if that happens it would be funny as hell and would probably be the end of the electoral college.

    We're in an age when each person's vote is equal to any other person, so the electoral college serves no purpose now. The popular vote should elect the president, then we would see the end of all of that obnoxious "swing state" campaigning and news reporting (Wolf Blitzer is going to need to find something else to talk about over and over). Look at this map, it shows where Bush and Kerry (and their VPs) either visited (the waving hand) or spent $1 million in advertising in the 5 weeks leading up to the 2004 election. That shit is ridiculous. Look at this graph, it shows the number of people in each state per electoral vote. In Wyoming you only need less than 200,000 people for a single electoral vote, but in Texas you need almost 750,000 for a vote. So the people in Wyoming, Washington D.C., Vermont, North Dakota, Alaska, and Rhode Island have all of their votes mean more than the people in California, Texas, New York, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and Arizona. That's also pretty stupid, my vote should count the same as any other vote regardless of which state they live in. And, for that matter, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, etc should all have their votes counted also if they're going to be under our jurisdiction.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  50. Mandatory Coverage on 3 Major Broadcast networks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mandatory Coverage on 3 Major Broadcast networks is required. Both on radio and on TV. Anyone in a rural location should be able to tune in with their AM radio and hear the debates.

    Coverage of politics is in "the public good" and needs to be mandatory for FCC licensing.

    We cannot mandate CATV - though coverage would be provided by mandating 1 of the 3 major TV networks provide coverage.

    We cannot mandate Internet - though internet streaming services should cover it as well.

    No copyright of the debates allowed. Freely re-broadcast forever.

    How do we fix the debates? Automatically control the microphones of the candidates. That would control the time limits - no going over time, period. If the candidate goes off topic, shut-off his mic and he/she/it loses the rest of their time for that answer. Talking over someone else and they lose their next time. Do it twice and escort them from the building.

    Civility is important in our political world. You don't have to like the other person, but you do need to treat them with respect. Being rude is NOT allowed.

    Every candidate with 5% of the polled voters gets invited to the debates. No hand-picking of who can and who cannot be there. Which polling companies are used much change for each debate.

    Don't get me started on campaign finance reform. My simple rule is this - if you cannot vote in the election for the candidate, then you cannot give money or services which help or harm that candidate. We want the government to represent voters, right? The only way to make that happen is to only have voters fund a campaign - PERIOD.