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Federal Judge Admits Existence Of NSA's PRISM Program (vocativ.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the assumption-based-truth dept.

An anonymous reader writes: A U.S. judge has just admitted the existence of the NSA's infamous PRISM program by name, apparently the first time any federal judge has done so. PRISM has been an open secret since June 2013, when documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden were first made public. An ominous NSA PowerPoint training slide claimed that PRISM allowed "collection [of user data] directly from the servers" of major American tech companies like Yahoo, Google, and Apple, though those tech companies immediately and fiercely protested that no, to their knowledge, they didn't give the NSA such access. It's since been generally accepted that the NSA wasn't physically accessing those companies' servers with PRISM, but instead creating a streamlined legal process to compel those companies, via orders processed in the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, to turn over users' data. Since the program's disclosure, most government reports and redacted FISA court orders have referred to PRISM by the legal authority the NSA claims authorizes it, Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But that's confusing, because 702 also authorizes what's called Upstream collection, which gives the NSA access to raw internet data -- not the same thing as PRISM, which is more specifically targeted.

18 of 82 comments (clear)

  1. ... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Years ago when we told others about the existence of Prism and many other oppressive projects, people say we wore tinfoil

    Thanks to Snowden and many other brave souls, now the world knows how despicable the American government (at least part of it) has become

    PRISM is far from being the only thing Uncle Sam has under its sleeves, there are other programs with equal dastardly scope / aim, or worse ... exposing those will take more time

    The world deserves to know how the American government - once the epitome of world Liberty - has become

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Thanks to Snowden and many other brave souls, now the world knows how despicable the American government (at least part of it) has become"

      Unfortunately, this behavior will continue until we stop giving it money and power.

    2. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hello AC.

      I see you have drunk the Koolaid.

      Points in contention:

      1) Holding the government accountable for its actions is not the same as "hating" the country. Please stop pretending that it is.

      2) "Terrorist" is such a loosely used word (when used by the US government) that just about anyone that exposes, or otherwise makes the US look bad for its blatantly anti-civil behaviors is branded such, because apparently being accountable for their actions is "Terrifying" to government officials. Yes, this means that if you mention the NSA spooks installing listening equipment next door to a public restroom, you will be branded a terrorist, and ooops, I guess now you are a bad bad man, and deserve to go to GITMO! See how loose definitions work there? Not good. Just because the government labels somebody a "Terrorist" does not mean that they enact political change through the use of mass terror. (You know, what a REAL terrorist actually does.)

      Underlying both of those points of contention is the false notion that disobeying government's wishes is fundamentally wrong/immoral. I hate to Godwin, but by that logic, the people who refused to tell the germans where all the jews were hiding were horrible people.

      Basically, I am with Taco above-- I do not "hate America", I hate what America is becoming, through the blind obsequiousness of people like you.

      Please, for the love of all that is wholesome and good, stop drinking the government koolaid.

    3. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by pepsikid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NOPE NOPE NOPE
      No, you may not do that.

      The NSA, FBI and other over-reaching spying agencies are NOT the USA.
      The USA is the 340 Million "free" people who comprise the citizens of the country.

      By fiercely protecting the privacy of those people, we show our love for the USA.
      Those apologists for the manipulative and disgraceful spy agencies, and those who echo their false narratives are the ones who hate the USA.

    4. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by DivineKnight · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Come, let us do evil that good may result."

    5. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I point out the problems with my country not because I hate it but because I love it.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      I suggest you go to China and say that very thing, it will quickly demonstrate the primary difference between the two countries.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Remember ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Remember ... by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      Then you do it anyway, very very publicly, and make it clear that you've been threatened and then point out to the public that they can assume any bullshit that happens to you or your family is a direct result of you pissing of 'the man'

      And maybe they do something to you, but the resulting backlash will actually result in a change where as if you just do what they tell you because you're afraid of losing your freedom then you're really no different than they are.

      Being a coward isn't an excuse for not doing the right thing.

      We should be teaching our children to stand up and take one for the team if need be, but make sure the team isn't a bunch of lying politicians first. Not teaching them that its okay if the government threatens you to let them get by with it.

      You do realize the reason they get by with it is because people are cowards who don't care about anyone but themselves, right?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:Remember ... by tlambert · · Score: 5, Informative

      Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

      Cite?

      I only know of two forms of gag orders under US law [national security letter] / [court order]

      So which one of those are you talking about, or are you referring to another that the public hasn't been made aware of?

      There are also:

      Patent secrecy orders under 37 CFR 5.2: "When notified by the chief officer of a defense agency that publication or disclosure of the invention by the granting of a patent would be detrimental to the national security, an order that the invention be kept secret will be issued by the Commissioner for Patents". The compensations provisions under the law pretty much suck, too.

      Suspicious activity reports, under Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 / Annunzio-Wylie Anti-Money Laundering Act, Pub.L. 102–550, 1517(b), 106 Stat. 4060.

      18 U.S.C. 2705(b) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 / Stored Communications Act; this is where all the security "canaries" in the disclosure reports from companies tend to originate.

      18 U.S.C. 3123(d)(2) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986; this is what prevents disclosure of pen registers.

      California Electronic Communications Privacy Act -- gag orders on all cases concerning electronic search warrants.

      There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

    3. Re:Remember ... by KGIII · · Score: 2

      Yes but he can say that because he's not in that position and it's not something we can ever verify.

      To be fair, so can't I. It's hard to say what we'd really do. I'd like to think I'll have courage and be a true Patriot. (Capitalization intentional.) I'd like to think that I'd suffer the consequences stoically and with dignity. Hell, I spent eight years enlisted - I'd like to think I'd do the right thing, the right thing being deciding for myself if a request is moral or not and aiding or not depending on that judgment. In other words, given the types of scenarios that I'm envisioning - I'd like to think that I'd go to the media in a whole bunch of creative ways and provide as much documentation as I can.

      At one point, I was willing to die for this country. I had a lot more to lose then than I do now. More importantly (to my mind) is that I was willing to kill for my country. Dieing is pretty easy, any fool can do it. Today? Today, I'm old and I've not actually got any real regrets. I don't have any major aspirations. I've done everything I've ever wanted to do, been everywhere I wanted to go, met everyone I want to meet, lived, laughed, loved, and cried. Death doesn't fear me but long and drawn out suffering scares the hell out of me.

      I'd like to think that I'd do the right thing.

      But will I?

      Talk is cheap and neither him, you, nor I are there in that position. I don't really know what I'd do. I'd love to lie and say that I'm absolutely certain that I'll do the right thing, regardless of the costs. I can't say that. I won't say that. Should the time come, hopefully you'll know that I did the right thing. I'd like to think that my kids wouldn't mind, I'd like to think they'd be proud. They know where I stand on things like this or, more accurately, they know which side I'd like to think I'd stand on.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Remember ... by shawn2772 · · Score: 2

      Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

      Cite?

      I only know of two forms of gag orders under US law [national security letter] / [court order]

      So which one of those are you talking about, or are you referring to another that the public hasn't been made aware of?

      There are also:

      Patent secrecy orders under 37 CFR 5.2

      Valid point, but not relevant to this discussion.

      Suspicious activity reports, under Housing and Community Development Act of 1992

      Also valid but not relevant.

      18 U.S.C. 2705(b) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 / Stored Communications Act; this is where all the security "canaries" in the disclosure reports from companies tend to originate.

      18 U.S.C. 3123(d)(2) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986; this is what prevents disclosure of pen registers.

      Yes, this is the legislation that authorizes the FBI to issue NSLs seeking metadata. It's exactly the first form of gag order that I mentioned. Thank you for providing the details, but calling it an additional example is misleading to the point of deceptive.

      California Electronic Communications Privacy Act -- gag orders on all cases concerning electronic search warrants.

      This is state, not federal, and it requires a search warrant, which means that it's just a codification of the judge's extant authority to issue gag orders. So this is a special sub-case of the other form I mentioned.

      So... you have not been able to cite any additional relevant situations in which gag orders can be issued. But at least you got a +5 out of it, so there's that.

      There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

      Bullshit.

  3. We supply terrorists weapons !! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know ... it's a 'whoosh' moment, but the 'terrorist' thing that you've brought up deserves more exposure ...
     
    A lot of weapons the terrorists are using came from the United States of America, and a lot of those weapons were supplied by the government of the United States of America

    You may think that I hate America. It's the contrary !

    I am an American and I love my adopted country

    Because of my love for the United States I do not like what is happening to my government

    The government of America not only runs shitty programs such as PRISM, but is actively supplying weapons / training / logistical supports to many terrorist groups (which the Obama administration term : friendly forces)

    Those so-called 'friendly forces' are carrying out things that are as bad as the ones IS has been doing - they behead people, crucifying people, kidnapping young girls from minority tribes (usually the Christians) and use them as sex slaves, and so on, and so forth ...
     
    ... and yet, the government of the United States of America, under Obama, chooses to ignore what is happening and continually to give support to those terrorists, supplying them weapons, and so on !
     
    Just in case you don't know, the biggest terrorist group there is right now is running Turkey. Recep Tayyip ErdoÄYan is an Islamofascist, and his wife just publiclly called for the re-establishment of "Ottoman Harem', where teams of young girls are kept as sex slaves
     
    What is the United States government doing?

    Of course, continue its support for Recep Tayyip ErdoÄYan, the Islamofascist government !

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:We supply terrorists weapons !! by buck-yar · · Score: 2

      This is just how it looks from your perspective. The vast majority are good people just trying to help the country. Sure, sometimes they may get a little over zealous and overstep their bounds, but if they didn't try, I'd question their enthusiasm for law enforcement.

  4. Re:"DIRECT" access by wierd_w · · Score: 2

    And that is the danger inherent with any secret court.

    It astounds me that some people consider the very idea of the FISA court to be a good one.

    If those people are afraid of terrorists, why the fuck arent they afraid of the biggest terrorist in the room?

  5. Re:Copyright violation.... by KGIII · · Score: 2

    I have seen some of the most unusual claims about the law here on Slashdot. Everything from, "Beyond all doubt." to, "They didn't read me the 5th when they gave me that speeding ticket!"

    One of my favorites is the "fiduciary duty." That one gets completely mangled. The 4th, 2nd, and 5th get mangled quite bit. Oh, the 1st gets mangled a lot. Right here on Slashdot, during the Reddit thing a while back, someone was claiming that Reddit's censorship was illegal.

    I am not a lawyer but it's be awesome if we could find one and ask 'em to give us some lessons in law, procedural law, jargon, and things like that. Also, financial advice - or at least taking the time to explain how it works so that people can get a good idea about how to protect themselves, that should be done.

    As for the legal aspects, people should know what protections they have and what protections they don't actually have that they think they do. Maybe we can find a judge that has done a bunch of work on cases involving tech and get them to do an Ask Slashdot. I think we'll need a whole lot more than 10 questions as the limit. Hmm... Maybe we can hire a lawyer and have them answer generic questions. I'd chip in for that.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  6. Re:PRISM began 2007 by buck-yar · · Score: 2

    Technically it began in 1998 with the Verizon Business partnership.

    MS hasn't even been secretive, why should they? They're just assisting law enforcement in doing their jobs

    http://www.cnn.com/TECH/comput...

  7. Re:NSA was intercepting traffic between data centr by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 2

    Correct. PRISM was not a streamlined legal framework. It was a way to eavesdrop on data between corporate datacenters, and then decrypt, store and index it. e.g. in the case of traffic between Google datacenters, the NSA had to decypher the serialized Google protocol buffer format for Google data, then figure out which data corresponded with which Gmail service.