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What's Frying the Electrical Systems On BART Trains? (ieee.org)

Tekla Perry writes: Earlier this month, BART engineers shut down a substation in hopes that the closure would quiet the power surges that were frying the electrical propulsion equipment on BART cars -- a peak of 40 in just one day in February. The shutdown seemed to solve the problem, but BART officials weren't sure they'd really found the answer. Yesterday, the power surges popped up again, on an entirely different section of tracks, damaging 50 cars before BART closed off that section, rerouting passengers onto buses. Track inspections yesterday revealed nothing, and BART reports that it has reached out to experts around the country and asked them to fly in and help solve the mystery. Do you have a theory? Note: BART is the 5th-busiest heavy-rail rapid transit system in the U.S.

12 of 250 comments (clear)

  1. I-squared-L? by swschrad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    could there perhaps be enough inductance in the multi-motor systems that it is generating its own connect/disconnect/connect surges? try isolating those DC motor controllers from both the track and the motors with some diode stacks and snubber caps.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:I-squared-L? by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On one hand, if the (looks like 000 gauge) conductors connecting the rails are being stolen, that could post a problem. On the other hand, since there are 4 paddles on each side of each car (as the 3rd rail can be on either side, depending on which side the platform is on at the next station), each car maintains contact with both rails as it transitions from one to the next. Likewise for the wheels, making the ground connection for each car. Coupled with the fact that cars share power, a 10 car train will be in contact with 4 or 5 rail pairs at any given moment, a majority of the bonding conductors would have to be missing or severely damaged to cause even a minor power issue. Cars are sized such that when the front of the train is crossing a rail threshold, the rear of the train is in the middle of a rail, so good contact is guaranteed at all times unless the first or last car is severely damaged and missing at least two paddles on the 3rd rail side. Even then, the likelihood of damage is minuscule.

      It is almost certainly a supply problem.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  2. I suspect ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... some sort of interaction between filter/power factor capacitors in the new substation and the inductive reactance of the tracks and distribution system. Transients caused by the inherent imperfect third rail to car contacts causes a ringing (oscillation) in the system which, with the new substation on line, happens to be on or near a frequency that some of the rolling stock motor controllers don't like.

    Throw some power quality analyzers on various sections of the track and watch the system's transient voltage response with power sources in various configurations.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  3. vitrification of grounds and more rain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So the A & B cars having inductions motors seem to be fine, while the problem seems to be confined to the C cars having the DC motor. That's one difference.

    Also, what else has changed? Take a look at wunderground to see that the Bay Area is having a wet season.

    Why would the C cars have been mostly fine all along and having trouble now?

    So there's charge building up in the DC motors that they can't handle and that makes them blow out. The charge has nowhere to go. What controls the flow of charge? Grounding. What can go wrong with grounding? Good grounds can go bad when a lot of discharge causes the sand in the soil to vitrify (melt into glass) after discharges and lightning strikes have been shooting through it for decades. Better grounds can unexpectedly form when more highly conductive paths form up. The AC induction motors will suffer a power loss but can handle the charge jumping back & forth in unexpected ways, while the DC motors can't.

    Add it all up. This has to be a grounding problem aggravated by the wet season, and an underlying assumption that once you sink a ground it's good forever. It isn't.

    1. Re:vitrification of grounds and more rain by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Throw together something to actually log what is going on. Even something like this, with the right voltage divider plugged into a little rugged PC like this or similar would probably work and you could create the logging code with Labview.

      You're in university or work in research aren't you? In the rest of the world we just hire off the shelf logging equipment specifically designed for the task and move on.

    2. Re:vitrification of grounds and more rain by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This has to be a grounding problem aggravated by the wet season

      Grounding problems are the cause of problems in the rail cars for many different reasons. My favourite is when an Australian train company decided to go green and implement regenerative breaking on all their equipment without any forethought. After purchasing an entire fleet of fancy new green trains they found the power goes out at the train station every time the train approaches.

      But really this is not helped by the fact that ground forms an important part of the electrical path in a rail system, and not just a safety mechanism as in most other cases.

  4. Re:control computers probably spygrading to Windws by freeze128 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I visited the Bay area in 1987, and I remember seeing the ticket sales machines having the big blue IBM logo on them. I bet the controllers run OS/2 warp.

  5. perhaps someone is testing by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    a cyber attack.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  6. Re:Solar flares by kenwd0elq · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My "go to" excuse for any electronic problems is "sunspots, or stray cosmic rays". However.....

    The Sun has been very quiet for the last several weeks, and Solar Cycle 24 is on a steep downward trend. I expect that we'll begin an extended Solar Minimum by the end of 2016 which may last 3-4 years (the "average" is 2 years, and the last Solar Min was nearly 3). I also expect that the next few solar cycles will be fairly quiet. Perhaps not Maunder Minimum quiet, but probably Dalton Minimum quiet, or nearly so.

    You should visit www.spaceweather.com periodically to keep up to date on this.

    Also; it's going to get somewhat chilly by and by.

  7. Re:Who stands to benefit? by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Considering that it's aged - don't rule out aging wire insulation that no longer does its job.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  8. Re:Real Time Monitoring by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm truly surprised that they don't have intensive real time monitoring with sensors through their whole system.

    Outside of a power generation company looking at maybe one or two substations away from their plant you'll find power infrastructure monitoring to the level that could aid predictive maintenance is non-existent. Even in utilities it's non-existent. Even in companies that don't run their equipment into the ground it's non-existent.

  9. Re: You can't defer maintenance forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Conservatives hate talk about externalities. Their so called free market relies on you not noticing, and God forbid holding them accountable for, pollution, congestion, oil subsidies and tax breaks, a huge military devoted to guarding overseas private assets (oil wells and shipping lanes), poisoning of water supplies, seizure of land for private gain, mandatory insurance at predatory prices (which is somehow not ok with healthcare, except for the predatory pricing part), inefficient use of resources (automobiles in daily service won't last 40 years), and the list goes on and on. The ones who demand you pay and pay and pay for every last thing never actually want to pay their own way, but they sure like to make you think they do.

    But they'll complain mightily about public transport being subsidized, particularly when it involves things like rail systems, and especially when it's because rail systems tend to cause good externalities like reduced traffic congestion, better energy efficiency, etc. After further review, busses still suck though.

    I love my car, but I live in the South where they make sure public transport is slow, inconvenient, and only for poor and minority people. It's kind of alien to me when I visit a place where people from all walks of life use it. I've discovered I like not having to use a car for everything.