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Why Buses Need To Be More Dangerous

HughPickens.com writes: Is there such a thing as being too safe? Jeff Kaufman writes that buses are much safer than cars, by about a factor of 67 but buses are not very popular and one of the main reasons is that if you look at situations where people who can afford private transit take mass transit instead, speed is the main factor. According to Kauffman, we should look at ways to make buses faster so more people will ride them, even if this means making them somewhat more dangerous. Kauffman presents some ideas, roughly in order from "we should definitely do this" to "this is crazy, but it would probably still reduce deaths overall when you take into account that more people would ride the bus": Suggestions include not to require buses to stop and open their doors at railroad crossings, allow the driver to start while someone is still at the front paying, allow buses to drive 25mph on the shoulder of the highway in traffic jams where the main lanes are averaging below 10mph, and leave (city) bus doors open, allowing people to get on and off any time at their own risk. "If we made buses more dangerous by the same percentage that motorcycles are more dangerous than cars," concludes Kauffman, "they would still be more than twice as safe as cars."

10 of 400 comments (clear)

  1. Interesting idea by Carewolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never going to happen though. Once someone as much as mentions a potential risk, the result with the current culture is an overreaction to avoid it.

    1. Re:Interesting idea by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not even a cultural problem. It's fairly simple: if there's an accident, and it's the bus company's fault, the bus company is going to pay. If medical costs are involved, it's going to pay tens of thousands at minimum. Ticket prices would have to rise to cover these costs, and even if the bus operator decided that 1/4 of the accident rate for cars was an acceptable risk, we'd still be looking at a company that would require an average passenger pay $100 or more in tickets and passes per year on top of what they pay already.

      I'm sympathetic to the argument, but without simpler liability rules (as in, if you step out of a moving bus and break your leg, your insurer, not the bus company's, should cover the costs), and universal healthcare (to ensure that the medical bill can get paid), I don't think it can go anywhere, in the US at any rate.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Interesting idea by Chrondeath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I feel like there's an "agency" aspect to this that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Even if, overall, people are safer on transport they don't control (buses, airplanes), the fact that they have some control over the risk when they drive makes them feel like it's less risky even if it really isn't. "Those 1,000 car deaths were probably all distracted idiots or maniacs or drunks--I'm a better driver than that."

  2. Stupid story.. stupid idea.... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No what is needed is having bus routes not suck. Wan to know why i drive instead of taking the bus? Because I dont have 1.5 hours for my commute to take the bus that goes from the stop near my home, to the mall, then to the other community and then finally downtown. Public transportation needs 2X the number of buses and 2X the number of routes.

    PLUS there needs to be high speed limited stops large bus lines from suburbs to city and small cities around the large one at the fare rate that makes them usable.

    Greyhound service is available from my city to where I work 40 miles away... at 3X the price of me driving and 5X the amount of time it takes to get there.

    Public transportation in most american cities are not set up to be used, they are set up for the unemployed where they have 2 hours to fuck around on bus routes to get somewhere.

    And that is not even covering the subject of the old man that smells of puke in the back that is screaming passages from revelations and never get's off the bus.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Stupid story.. stupid idea.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The same is true even in places with much better public transport systems. The only thing making public transport (sometimes) faster than driving is the shear level of congestion... And the fashionable thing here seems to be to force more and more people onto the already overcrowded public transport systems by making driving more difficult and more expensive.

      One place i often work is 20 minutes away by car without traffic, 40 minutes in typical commuter traffic, the same journey is 2.5 hours by train during peak times, over 3 hours at off peak times (less frequent/slower trains) and completely impossible at night when the trains stop running.

      For the job i'm doing i only need to interact with some computers, it could be done remotely if they set it up accordingly, or it could be done at any time of the day or night, yet they insist on us going there at the busiest time of day.

      The answer to transport problems is to simply travel less, its good for the environment, good for the people, good for everyone.

      Instead of opening your offices in the business district where noone can afford to live close by, open them somewhere else where theres a good supply of housing within a 15 minute walk. Employees will save a lot of time and money plus get a little exercise if they can walk to work, and people are less likely to arrive late.

      If people are doing a job that doesn't really need them to be in a particular location, don't force them to be there.

      Dont force everyone to work at the same time, this comes from the days of people working in fields and needing sunlight to do so. A lot of work is not time critical, and can be done at any time, a lot of businesses you need to interact with are now 24/7 or even automated operations, a lot of cross-timezone business is done these days too.

    2. Re:Stupid story.. stupid idea.... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I really doubt there's a way to build enough bus routes to take people from arbitrary point to arbitrary point in an efficient manner. Public transportation works pretty well at major transportation hubs, when you can move huge concentrations of people to and from specific, highly popular destinations (like to extremely dense city centers). But it doesn't work nearly as well when you're trying to move between two arbitrary points in, say, a large semi-densely suburban region dotted with small to medium-sized cities in which the journey an individual is likely to take is not nearly so predictable.

      The problem is that without hub and spokes, you're trying to solve a N x N hard problem (with N being the number of possible destinations in a given region) in the worst case scenario. Each additional hub you add drastically reduces the number of routes needed, but at the cost of increased travel time and inconvenience.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  3. Wrong title: Buses need to be faster by bederson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Buses need to be faster, even at the cost of reducing safety. Arguing that buses need to be designed to be more dangerous is disenguous. No one *wants* more dangerous buses. Better title: Buses need to be faster, even if more dangerous.

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    - Ben Bederson Professor Computer Science, Human-Computer Interaction Lab University of Maryland
  4. Re:Or... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Buses are far more flexible than rail, for the simple fact that you can re-allocate buses, and create new routes anywhere you have a road.

    ...which is exactly why trains and trams are better. Frequently changing bus routes, numbers and timetables is a good way to kill off your ridership because who wants to learn a new timetable every few months and have to refigure the best way to get home or get to work? When the buses were privatized in the town where I grew up huge numbers of people ended up switching to driving because the company kept switching the timetables around to optimize them and everyone got fed up of trying to work out the new timetable every few months.

  5. Re:Thrill by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The most "unfunny" part of bus rides is that they often goes in a zig-zag pattern all over the city between origin and destination causing the average speed to be slower than a bicycle, albeit usually not as sweat-driving as a bicycle ride.

    Buses and trams are good for short rides, subways are good within a city including suburbs while trains are when you are reaching further away to more distant parts.

    The key part is to keep public transportation competitive with cars, but the catch is that politicians now have figured out that if we make car use more cumbersome without improving the public transport system then more people will use public transports. But that's not necessarily true, it would just make people despise politicians even more.

    The hop-on, hop-off style is an interesting method, and works for normal healthy people but not for people with disability, children or elderly people. However I don't rule it out completely because having variation in transport modes would make the transportation more efficient, even if disabled people may feel discriminated. Just make sure that those that may suffer a discrimination because they are unable to do the hop-on, hop-off get other advantages instead.

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    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  6. Re: Oh absolutely by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We had them, nobody used them. Who wants to be waiting in a wheelchair in a snow storm? Instead, you can book a special handicapped bus or taxi door to door for the cost of a bus ticket, with the transit company making up the difference. Turns out it doesn't cost much more to the system, while allowing greater throughput and more precise scheduling of bus stops. An adapted minivan can take 3 wheelchairs and 3 attendants. A handicapped minibus can take more. We did keep the ability of the buses to lower the right side to make it easier for people with reduced mobility to get on and off. You'll get people to give up their cars if you make the service good enough.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.