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Bob Ebeling, Challenger Engineer Who Forewarned of Shuttle Disaster, Dead At 89 (huffingtonpost.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from HuffingtonPost: For three decades, retired NASA engineer Bob Ebeling blamed himself for being unable to stop the 1986 launch of space shuttle Challenger. He had warned that the shuttle might explode, and it did shortly after liftoff, killing seven crew members. Ebeling was one of five engineers at a NASA contractor then called Morton Thiokol who warned the space agency that cold temperatures predicated at the time of the launch could prove disastrous. The warning was ignored. The night before the launch, Ebeling reportedly told his wife, Darlene, "It's going to blow up." He told another daughter, Kathy Ebeling, that he had toyed with the idea of bringing his hunting rifle to work to threaten NASA not to launch, according to an article last month in The Washington Post. In the final weeks of his life, however, thanks to an outpouring of support following a National Public Radio story in January on the 30th anniversary of the disaster, Ebeling, 89, finally found peace. Ebeling died Monday in his home in Brigham City, Utah, after a prolonged illness with prostate cancer, NPR reported.

35 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Sad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    RIP Mr. Ebeling.

    A tragedy that did not have to happen because "sales and marketing" ignored the engineer with the technical knowhow.

    1. Re:Sad. by Lisandro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      NASA had to launch in order to keep to their promised schedule (which was already stretched several times before the incident) in order not to lose funding. Someone made the call to consider the freezing an acceptable risk and launch even with several warnings not to do so.

      There was a a "product" and a "sale".

    2. Re:Sad. by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, then it's the next batch of cluprits ... PR and management. Which I gather in this case is exactly what happened.

      The night before the launch, Ebeling and four other engineers at NASA contractor Morton Thiokol had tried to stop the launch. Their managers and NASA overruled them.

      That night, he told his wife, Darlene, "It's going to blow up."

      When Challenger exploded 73 seconds after liftoff, Ebeling and his colleagues sat stunned in a conference room at Thiokol's headquarters outside Brigham City, Utah. They watched the spacecraft explode on a giant television screen and they knew exactly what had happened.

      Three weeks later, Ebeling and another engineer separately and anonymously detailed to NPR the first account of that contentious pre-launch meeting. Both were despondent and in tears as they described hours of data review and arguments. The data showed that the rubber seals on the shuttle's booster rockets wouldn't seal properly in cold temperatures and this would be the coldest launch ever.

      What's really sad is this poor bastard did everything he could to avert it, and got told to STFU.

      It's sad that he carried guilt for something he properly identified and did everything he could to prevent it.

      "I think that was one of the mistakes that God made," Ebeling says softly. "He shouldn't have picked me for the job. But next time I talk to him, I'm gonna ask him, 'Why me. You picked a loser.' "

      No sir, that's not how the rest of us interpret that.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Sad. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Informative

      There was a a "product" and a "sale".

      The product was the first teacher in space. The sale was the State of the Union address by President Ronald Reagan. According to various reports, Reagan wanted to chat with her while she was in orbit on national television. NASA and the administration categorically denied that the launch was tied to the speech.

    4. Re:Sad. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 5, Informative
      Says someone who didn't read the Rogers Commission Report including Feynman's addendum where NASA actually believed their own (completely made up) hype about 1 loss per 100,000 missions.

      Note also that the exact same causes were also listed as contributing factors in the loss of the Columbia.

      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ... Richard Feynman

    5. Re:Sad. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not only did they ignore the warnings, in some cases they directly ignored the protections in place to protect against unsafe launches. A few years back, I had the privilege of being seated next to Roger Boisjoly, another of the Morton Thiokol whistleblowers, who was to be a guest lecturer for 650 engineering ethics students at Texas A&M University the following day. It was fascinating to hear him describe his firsthand account of the conference calls and back-and-forth taking place the night before the disaster.

      From what I recall of what he said, prior to every launch, NASA required that Morton Thiokol engineers sign off on their systems, and one of those sign-offs fell to him, but he refused to sign anything due to the concerns he had about the O-ring in cold temperatures. While Morton Thiokol management tried to convince him to change his mind, they were on a conference call with NASA, who was asking what the delay was about. Morton Thiokol management played it off as a minor issue on their end that was being worked out (i.e. "He's driving into the office right now...just give us a minute" sort of stuff). When they were unable to convince him to sign it, his non-engineer manager relieved him of duty and signed-off on the launch himself, completely contrary to protocol.

      NASA accepted it regardless of that fact, and the rest is history.

    6. Re:Sad. by leonbev · · Score: 2

      I guess that the only thing he didn't try was leaking the problem to the press. Something tells me that a "NASA Engineer Warns Of Impending Shuttle Failure" headline in the New York Times would have got NASA's attention.

      It would have been more effective than going into the office with a rifle, anyway. They just would have declared him to be a mad man, arrested or shot him, launched the shuttle anyway, and would have eventually had the same problem in either that launch or another one soon after.

      Sure, he probably would have lost his job, but if he was proven right he could have sued them for unlawful termination and got a nice settlement to retire on.

    7. Re:Sad. by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How NASA came up with the 1 loss per 100,000 figure is a great lesson in misapplied statistics. Most of that risk was due to O-ring failure. Mating the segments of the SRBs was a difficult task, and inspection of the SRBs after test firings showed that something like 1 in 50 O-rings sealing the joint was failing (burning through). This was correctly deemed unacceptable. NASA's "solution" was to put in 3 O-rings at each joint. That triple redundancy meant that the chance of a complete burn-through (failure of all three O-rings) was 1 in 50*50*50 = 1 in 125,000. Presto! You've taken a system with unacceptably high risk, and through the clever use of statistics turned it into something reliable.

      Unfortunately, that math only works when the failures are independent events. When a common event compromises all three O-rings - like cold weather - they all fail together and your redundancy offers no additional protection.

      The same thing happened at Fukushima. They knew the nuclear plant would need diesel generators for backup power in an emergency. Diesel generators can be finicky to start, especially if they haven't been usd much for years. So they added redundancy by installing multiple generators - 2 per reactor, plus a switching station which would allow them to shunt power from any generator to any reactor. 12 diesel generators in all for the plant.

      Again, that assumes the diesel generator failures are independent events. A common event (flooding from a tsunami) wiped out all but 2 of the generators, and those 2 (in another reactor further up the hill that had been shut down for maintenance) were useless because the flooding also wiped out the switching station.

      When you took Intro to Statistics the book said to get the overall probability, you multiply probabilities for independent events. That little bit at the end there is really important.

    8. Re:Sad. by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing that really bothers me is that these whistleblower engineers have Wikipedia pages about them, they're listed by name in discussions or articles (including Wikipedia) about the disaster, etc.

      But where is the list of names of the managers who were *directly responsible for the deaths of the Challenger crew*? These people are guilty of **murder**. Yet we never see their names anywhere, they're just referred to as anonymous "managers".

      Why is this? These murderers should be publicly listed and shamed for the scum that they are.

    9. Re:Sad. by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What I want to know is, why is it the whistleblower heroes are listed by name, but we never see the names printed of any of these managers (at Thiokol or NASA) who *murdered* the Challenger crew. All we ever hear about these people is the names "bureaucrat" or "manager". Somehow these people have completely escaped all culpability, including having their names aired in public for their misdeeds.

    10. Re:Sad. by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mating the segments of the SRBs was a difficult task

      It was a needlessly difficult task. The fundamental problem was that the SRB sections would deform while being shipped long distance by train, making both the O-rings and the alignment of the sections critical. They were shipped long distance by train so that they could be manufactured in the district of someone important to funding. Earmarking was the root cause. Make the SRBs on-site and avoid the need for O-rings entirely.

      The alignment problem was aggravated by really poor markings on the sections, because the "usability" of the alignment process was ignored, leaving the techs stuck trying to line up these small and cryptic markings.

      Feynman's book on all of this was a great read.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:Sad. by ed1park · · Score: 2

      "but they had failed to take into account a number of factors (the most notable being the change in performance characteristics when exposed to cold temperatures), leading to the last-minute warnings as they realized the potential for disaster."

      Bzzt wrong. The managers took the cold temps into account, and ignored the pleas of their engineers to delay the launch because previous damage sustained from temps that were not even as extreme on that day.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02...

      There is risk, and then there is stupidity/negligent manslaughter. Thiokol management should have been put in prison and ruined.

    12. Re:Sad. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      They were shipped long distance by train so that they could be manufactured in the district of someone important to funding.

      That "someone" was Senator Jake Garn of Utah, who chaired the appropriation committee for NASA's funding. He not only had the SRBs made in Utah, but he also got himself a ride on the Space Shuttle at a cost of tens of million to the taxpayers, despite being completely unqualified and spending near all his time in space puking from motion sickness.

      Make the SRBs on-site and avoid the need for O-rings entirely.

      They did not have to be made on-site. They could have been made in a single piece anywhere on the east or gulf coast and moved to the launch site by barge using the Intercoastal Waterway. That was the original plan, before Senator Garn used his chairmanship to have construction shifted to Utah, increasing the cost, and decreasing the structural integrity.

    13. Re:Sad. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      a culture of invincibility

      Coming off of Apollo, this was the whole downfall of the Shuttle Program as NASA believed they could do anything and oversold their own capabilities. A little while later when they were running into problems the had to go to congress to make them the sole launch provider for the US to get the rates up high enough to meet the cost promises. That led to design changes needed by customers, primarily the DoD who didn't want the thing in the fit place but were being forced to use it.

    14. Re:Sad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Additionally, googling "Robert Lund" finds articles from 1986 naming the others: Joe Kilminster, Jerry Mason, and Larry Mulloy.
      While those 4 all had a part, the one ultimately responsible appears to be Joe Kilminster, who recommended the launch, and should have listened to Ebeling.

      http://articles.latimes.com/1986-03-13/news/mn-19612_1_morton-thiokol

      "Calvin Wiggins, who was demoted to deputy."

      "authority previously held by Jerry Mason, senior vice president of Wasatch Operations, and by Robert Lund, vice president of engineering."

      "It was Wiggins, Mason and Lund--along with vice president Joe Kilminster--who overruled the safety warnings raised by rocket engineers the night before Challenger was launched."

      https://www.dcbureau.org/20060126617/national-security-news-service/challenger-twenty-years-later-lessons-never-learned.html
      Also says Jerry Mason, Joe Kilminster and Bob Lund, as well as Larry Mulloy

      "When Larry Mulloy, MTI’s SRB manager, heard Roger’s explanation for the failure, he refused to accept it."
      "nothing was acceptable to Mulloy who insisted Roger did not have enough data to support a no-launch recommendation."

      "Larry Mulloy asked MTI’s vice-president and program manager Joe Kilminster for his launch recommendation, to which he replied, “Based upon the engineering information that was just presented, I do not recommend launching Challenger tomorrow.” With those words, relief flowed over Roger’s body in a wave of euphoria. Thiokol had done it. It had convinced them to stop the launch. But euphoria quickly turned to despair as Larry Mulloy asked MSFC’s Deputy Director of Science and Engineering, George Hardy for his recommendation."

      "Roger and Arnie watched as MTI’s top executives, Jerry Mason, Joe Kilminster and Bob Lund continued to twist the engineering data to support a launch decision."

      "The managers then handed their new launch criteria to Joe Kilminster and asked him to present them to NASA. After reconnecting with the attendees at MSFC and KSC, Kilminster issued the launch support rationale and recommended that the launching of Challenger proceed as planned."

  2. Stay Healthy. Keep Your Mouth Shut. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    This guy spoke out. Now he's dead.

  3. May he RIP by Lisandro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The worst part is reading about how the incident scarred him for life, as he felt directly responsible for the disaster. The guy spoke up and no one wanted to listen.

  4. I remember this as a child by holophrastic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was 6 years old, and interested in space tech. I became very aware of what had happened, and it shaped my life. I learned a valuable lesson from Bob.

    The lesson I learned wasn't to listen to warnings, or to double-check things. The lesson I learned was to stand my ground through escalation.

    Bob did his job. And had he been a psychopath, he could have been happy with what he did. But that's not me -- because of these events.

    In my case, yes I'd have grabbed my hunting rifle. But I wouldn't have walked into NASA offices with it. You don't believe me that it's going to blow up from the cold, fine. Bang. Now it's going to blow up from that hole that I just shot into it.

    I've followed this lesson quite a few times in my career, and in my life. Being willing to sabotage my own interests (clients, projects, money, property, relationships) in order to do what I strongly believed was the right thing has ensured that I sleep really damned well, each and every night.

    Thank you Bob, for giving me the lesson that would shape much of my life.

    1. Re:I remember this as a child by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sucks that in today's world we are forced to choose between sleeping well and living well.

    2. Re:I remember this as a child by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The lesson I learned wasn't to listen to warnings, or to double-check things. The lesson I learned was to stand my ground through escalation.

      You only learned that 'lesson', because Bob Ebeling and the other Morton Thiokol engineers only tell half the story - the half that makes them look good.
       
      They don't tell you their initial design was flawed. The don't tell you that they 'fixed' it by putting a band aid over it. They don't tell you that the flaw resurfaced when the Shuttle began flying. They don't tell you that the flaw was bad enough that a Challenger type loss was possible even well within the temperature spec. They don't tell you they papered over the problems because the design "hadn't actually completely failed". When they tell the tale of their too little, too late attempts to reverse themselves, they leave out all these things.
       
      Bob Ebeling and the other Morton Thiokol engineers should feel responsible for the death of the Challenger's crew - because they are. The loss of Challenger is every bit as much a tale of engineers fucking up as it is of managers failing to adequately oversee them.
       
      Posted Anon mostly because I don't want to deal with the clueless morons who only know the urban legend version of Challenger's loss (that is, they haven't actually read and understood the Rogers Commission Report - they only repeat what they've heard from other, equally clueless, morons), or with the idiots who worship engineers as a religion.

    3. Re:I remember this as a child by countach44 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's say he brought the rifle and maybe even shot the actual shuttle. The news report would be "shuttle engineer goes crazy, shoots at shuttle, launch delayed" And, for the sake of this story let's say that NASA never attempts a launch in kind of cold again. He would just always be a crazy guy that shot at a shuttle.

      As a lot of us know firsthand, this is the kind of job where if everything is going well no one knows that you exist... how many times do we warn management of risks and then things turn out okay anyway? Even with a 99.9% probability of failure, that 0.1% chance of success is still a possible outcome.

      Either way, he seems like a great guy who tried to do the right thing. It's a shame that he was ignored and even had to consider taking drastic actions. Despite his doing exactly the best he could, I know if I were in his shoes I would be second-guessing everything I could've done - not an easy burden to bear.

  5. No non-technical managers allowed by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There should have been, at NASA, a launch validation team composed entirely of top-notch mid-to-senior level engineers and scientists.
    They should carefully consider each known risk prior to each launch.
    They should debate it only in terms of risk level = probability of occurrence x probability distribution of consequence severity.

    That team should make the go/no-go call, fully documenting their reasons.

    Any divergence from this sort of technical review with final authority is a gross violation of responsible process for something as complex as this.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  6. That's why some engineers are Professionals by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fortunately, most people won't have the weight of something like this when faced with the decision to keep pushing your position or keep your mouth shut. I've had a number of times where I've suggested something isn't going to work the way people think it will, or that a course of action isn't the right one. Sometimes I've been listened to, and others I've been told I'm "too negative" or "overly cautious" or similar. It happens a lot in IT -- most of us don't work on safety-sensitive systems and don't design things that may fall down and/or kill people. Because of this, lots of projects fail and billions of dollars are just flushed down the toilet. Look at any ERP implementation in a large company; almost none are completely successful and yet those same consulting firms keep raking in money year after year.

    I heard this guy's story on NPR a couple months ago, and it really is a sad end; he was tortured for the rest of his life by the fact that he felt there was something more that he could do. It's similar to a development project getting taken over by the salesweasels and marketing people -- the actual engineers who know what's really possible are just ignored and an unrealistic date is promised, a vaporware feature that can't be built is sold, etc.

    Before I retire, I would like to see IT including software development start acting more like professional engineers (real PEs) and less like a bunch of cowboys with no guidance or standards. Things that work should be standardized to some extent so they're easily repeatable. Civil engineers, for example, don't go back to first principles designing a run of the mill highway interchange. They use reference designs and only get inventive/creative when the situation warrants it. Contrast that with IT, where Web Framework Of the Month changes every month and there's no standard anything.

    1. Re:That's why some engineers are Professionals by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Before I retire, I would like to see IT including software development start acting more like professional engineers (real PEs) and less like a bunch of cowboys with no guidance or standards

      Yeah, no kidding.

      I've spent a lot of years in regulated industries where overseeing agencies have no patience for "oops". And lives, huge fines, or both can be on the line.

      As such my approach to change management is very rigid, very paranoid, and to some people, way over the top. The people I've worked with have all come to see it as a good thing, because they know damned well we're not just making changes without telling someone just because it's easier. I had one manager defend me to someone who went over my head because he "just wanted to make a quick change", and the manager said "hell no, you follow his way or you don't touch the machine". The next day the guy who wanted to make the quick change brought down another prod system by doing something stupid and ad hoc. Nobody ever questioned my apparent paranoia about the production systems again, and my manager knew damned well I was doing it to look out for the company's interests. Quick change guy? I'm not sure he lasted much longer, because it was a very risk averse environment and he didn't get that.

      I've known a lot of people who are like "oh, I did that wrong, OK, I'll just make a quick tweak on the Prod system and fix the mistake". I've seen several instances of things being suddenly dead in the water and someone nervously saying "no, I don't know what happened" even though they basically caused the outage and knew it. Getting caught being the culprit AND getting caught trying to hide it is not a good choice.

      Building stuff, or maintaining stuff, is a lot harder to do if you insist on not cutting corners. Sucks to be that guy standing there sheepishly trying to explain how you were just making one tiny little harmless change, that turned out to be not so harmless.

      For some stuff, sure, agile and off the cuff is probably OK. But when the stakes go up, the rigor needs to go up as well. And the cowboys don't understand that they can't just keep winging it and saying "don't worry, it'll be fine". Because when it's not fine, someone's ass might be on the line.

      And while I could relax my paranoia about change management in the right environment (but it wouldn't be my natural instinct), the people who do stuff by the seat of their pants can't suddenly start doing more rigorous stuff, because they never learned and don't see why they'd do it. Which means they always try to cut corners and believe that nothing will happen.

      Apparently I was doing things like ITSM before I knew what it was.

      The world needs more technical types to stand up and say "this is a terrible idea, and we should not do this", exactly like this guy did. What's really sad is these guys predicted a massive tragedy which could have been avoided, and nobody listened -- and that as often as not someone in management is overruling that and saying "shut up, we need to do this now".

      Because those people are often the first to try to blame someone else, usually the people they overruled in the first place.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:That's why some engineers are Professionals by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

      "No thank you. IT is one of the last places where smart people who don't want to kiss the iron ring can still ply a worthwhile trade."

      Agreed somewhat, but consider this fact -- IT is also one of the only places where someone can:
      - Slap any old system into place to solve a problem, even claiming "best practice" or whatever
      - Screw up so badly that they lose data or cause a company to lose massive amounts of money
      - Get fired, clean up their resume and go get another job as if nothing happened
      - Repeat over and over again, with no repercussions

      I've worked with a lot of incompetent people -- not just ignorant, because no one knows everything. I'm talking about people who are completely unsuitable for the job and get past HR filters and incompetent managers. There is nothing wrong in my mind with guaranteeing a basic level of knowledge, education and experience for each level of employee you hire. It would really cut down on the people with only paper certification knowledge, people who went to "coder bootcamp" because they heard they could make lots of money in IT, and so on.

      The key, which you allude to, is striking the balance between a professional organization and an all-controlling guild.

    3. Re:That's why some engineers are Professionals by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 2

      Maybe not a perfect solution, but it's something...

      Here in Alberta you must be a part of APEGA (the Association of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of Alberta) in order to practice engineering (there are similar entities in just about every province in Canada). Any engineering company that wishes to operate in Alberta must have a Permit to Practice, and employ a so-called "Responsible Member" (of APEGA) that oversees and approves all engineering related decisions or designs. This person has the final say on all engineering decisions, they cannot be overridden by anyone; not the President/CEO, not the Board of Directors, not the shareholders.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    4. Re:That's why some engineers are Professionals by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 2

      They lose their Permit to Practice unless they assign someone else as the Responsible Member. That other person would be bound by the same rules of ethics and standards of practice, and they must inform the Association of the change, and the reason for it. Plus, there is no at-will (or right to work, or whatever the hell it's called) nonsense in Canada, if you fire someone for something like that you get a big fat wrongful dismissal lawsuit. And, since the Association has the sole legal authority to determine what constitutes negligence or incompetence in the practice of Engineering, the company has to prove it to them, not the normal court system.

      If the person who was fired suspects that the reason was to skirt regulation in some way, they are obligated to report it. If the claim is serious enough (i.e. it represents a danger to the public) the Association will suspend the Permit pending the result of the investigation, which could take months, and is probably not in the best interest of the company.

      There may be other protections in place for the Responsible Member, I'm not familiar with all of the rules. But I do know that part of getting the corporate Permit is providing a detailed breakdown of the company structure and procedure, to ensure that the Responsible Member is capable of meeting their obligation.

      It is self-regulation, but the companies don't regulate themselves, the Professionals do. You have almost nothing to gain and everything to lose by violating the Code of Conduct. I never said it was perfect (in fact I said the opposite), but it's something, and it seems to work pretty well from what I've seen.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  7. And yet on the flip side... by DumbSwede · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The world is full of people that are sure in their minds they are right and will do whatever it takes to stand up for their beliefs.
    The suicide bomber in Brussels I'm sure was convinced he had rightful justification for his actions.

    Escalate, yes,
    Fight the system, yes.
    Commit dangerous, illegal, criminal acts in defence of your beliefs, NO.

    Not everyone can be IN CHARGE. While there are many bad outcomes from following the chain of command, on average it is probably better than the anarchy that would reign without it.

    Perhaps you are engaging in hyperbole with your rifle example, but do you really want every halfwit in our country destroying things to back up their beliefs, because they "KNOW" they are right?

    1. Re:And yet on the flip side... by holophrastic · · Score: 2

      That's a good point, but I've always drawn a firm line. I won't let you cross the line between money and safety, law and life. Damaging a rocket, and letting everyone know that you've damaged it, doesn't have any life/safety consequences. In my world, Bob would have sabotaged the shuttle, been fired, and everyone would have moved on. We celebrate a russion who didn't push a button for the same reason.

      My hyperbole was "rifle" and "shoot". Those are dangerous terms. "Obviously sabotage" is what I wanted to communicate.

      As for the anarchy of it all, you know, I don't think it just jumps to anarchy. Bob still gets fired for the sabotage, as anyone would for breaking that chain of command. So you've got to be willing to take those consequences, and fight them out after-the-fact. And I do believe that a very quick system would appear on its own -- was the person an expert/in-the-know? then we accept their heart-felt belief as an excuse from the "criminal" qualification, and we simply label it, at worst, an on-the-job mistake.

      Someone's got to be responsible for catching these types of dangers. Perhaps the big-wigs didn't understand the warnings. Pehaps Bob had a cold and sneezed and wasn't entirely understood. Perhaps the big-wig was ill that day and not thinking straight. At some point, we need to allow people the ability to save others. We're not talking about an intern, or a student, or someone from far away. We're talking about someone on-the-ground, right there, touching it.

    2. Re:And yet on the flip side... by Raenex · · Score: 2

      In my world, Bob would have sabotaged the shuttle, been fired, and everyone would have moved on.

      In your world, Bob would have been fired and put in prison, a new part would have been made or already available, and the accident would have happened anyways.

  8. Another Engineer ? before Ebeling by BoRegardless · · Score: 2

    Rudolph Krueger, PE, was asked to bid on designing the details for the booster tank seals, as he had done seals many military projects including for fighters and satellites.

    Rudolph replied back that he didn't think the proposed design was viable and declined to bid.

    Rather than someone questioning a certified professional engineer as to "What is wrong with the concept.", no one ever asked

    That is where the first failure occurred.

  9. A Burden Misplaced - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sometimes I think the reason that we blame ourselves for bad things happening, even when we have no power to foresee or stop them, even we've done everything that was good and right to keep those things from happening, even when we had nothing to do with the cause of those events... is because it's easier to believe that we could have done something and didn't, than to accept that we couldn't do anything.

    Mr. Ebeling clearly believed that there was something that he could have or should have done, and that his inaction resulted in catastrophe. Not only was he innocent, and not only did he do everything within his power to make certain that the launch did not proceed, but the forces which pushed the launch forward rested entirely outside of his control. Maybe his hunting rifle plot would have made a difference - we'll never know. What's important to note, though, is that threatening his friends and colleagues with deadly force to delay the launch is a plan that probably appealed much more in the clarity of hindsight.

    Sometimes we entertain power fantasies for unselfish reasons. We envision ourselves being able to use power that we oftentimes lack in order to correct some grave wrong in our lives, or to prevent tragedies both foreseen and unforeseen. Sometimes these lines of thinking are helpful in preparing us to take useful action later in our lives, so we can prevent the same thing from happening again. Other times... well, just look at Mr. Ebeling. This kind of thinking can eat you up inside, and suffering this way is no form of redemption, if redemption is even called for at all.

    When any sober assessment of one's actions shows that a negative event which they've experienced truly was not their fault, why is it that some people continue to imagine that they could have done something about it, believing against all reason that they're to blame? It is because acknowledging that they were powerless to stop it, and accepting that powerlessness, hurts at least as much as the event itself. Blaming oneself numbs the pain that comes with acceptance, and to many it is treated as the lesser of two evils whether they're aware of it or not. It isn't, and persistently avoiding the pain of acceptance creates even greater suffering in the end.

    Rest in peace, Mr. Ebeling. You've taught us many difficult lessons - lessons which will hopefully save (and have already saved) lives. The final lesson you gave us, however, is a lesson in guilt and the importance of acceptance. Perhaps that lesson will save lives as well.

  10. Re:Rest in Peace by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes. He suddenly died at 89 because he was going to reveal a secret he just remembered about.

  11. Re:Sad/Enough by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You think murderers should just go free and just have to live with their consciences? Great, let's just let everyone out of prison now!

  12. You have no idea what you're talking about. by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

    The tires on your car are known to fail sometimes. The cases are well documented, we've known about tire blowouts for decades, and yet we continue to put cars on the road with tires that could fail on any given drive.

    Tire blowouts (in terms of individual tires) are rare - the Shuttle primary o-rings suffered damage caused by leakage on nearly every flight. They suffered significant damage on (IIRC) twelve flights prior to Challenger. They suffered damage nearly to Challenger levels on two of those - with launch temperatures in the eighties. Let's break that down - on nearly 50% of the launches pre Challenger, the primary o-rings experienced some significant degree of failure. On 8% of the launches pre Challenger the primary o-ring suffered severe failure that resulted in severe damage. And Ebeling and Boisjoly stood silent.
     

    The odds that both the primary and backup could fail on a particular launch were estimated to be infinitesimally small

    The primary o-ring wasn't supposed to fail at all (the specification was no leakage) - but it leaked significantly on almost half the launches prior to Challenger. Any responsible engineer would raise the roof when a component that wasn't supposed to fail did so routinely. (Fifty percent of all launches prior to Challenger!) Ebeling and Boisjoly stood silent.
     
    In fact, that the primary o-ring failed routinely was known during ground development and qualification tests of the SRB's. Ebeling and Boisjoly stood silent.
     
    In essence, there was no backup - one o-ring, which was supposedly the second line of defense, routinely served as the only line of defense because of a design flaw in the joint. This is completely and utterly inexcusable.
     
    The SRB field joints were a deeply flawed design and a ticking time bomb in the Shuttle that could have gone off on STS-1 as easily as they did on STS-51L. Ebeling and Boisjoly had to have known that - but they said nothing or went with the party line that since the joints hadn't actually failed there wasn't a problem. Managers can't make proper decisions if their engineers fail to properly inform them or actively mislead them.