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Global Majority Backs a Ban On 'Dark Net,' Poll Says (reuters.com)

Alastair Sharp reports for Reuters: Seven in 10 people say the 'dark net' -- an anonymous online home to both criminals and activists fearful of government surveillance -- should be shut down, according to a global Ipsos poll released on Tuesday. The findings, from a poll of at least 1,000 people in each of 24 countries, come as policymakers and technology companies argue over whether digital privacy should be curbed to help regulators and law enforcement more easily thwart hackers and other digital threats.

38 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    good luck with that

    1. Re:luck by graphius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you know, maybe we should make crime illegal or something...

    2. Re:luck by phrostie · · Score: 2

      I'm sure they got what they paid for.

      no where does it say 1000 randomly selected people.
      the countries do appear to be random, though stopping at 24 was odd.
      I guess it gave them what they needed.

    3. Re:luck by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I, for one, support outlawing bad and will gladly sign a petition saying that bad should, in fact, be banned. Only the bad would support bad. And so I must support good, as must anyone who is good. I will, for that matter, go so far as to say that bad is bad and that good is good--and would take issue with anyone who would say otherwise.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:luck by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if all of that was done properly, they don't provide a copy of the poll questions so who knows what they actually asked.

      Consider the following question "Do you agree that the dark net, a part of the global internet that houses illegal drugs, child pornography, and other illicit activity should be banned by the world's governments?" along with the usual strong agree, agree, etc. options. Of course you'd naturally expect people to agree it should be banned. You could make up something called the dragon net and people would overwhelmingly be in favor of banning it, even though it doesn't exist.

      Of course you could phrase the question another way and paint the dark net as a place where people go to escape government censorship or authoritarian surveillance and I'd bet you'd get people voting that the U.S. should do more to fund it. Without knowing the question which was asked, the answer is almost meaningless.

    5. Re:luck by msauve · · Score: 2

      Just require that the dark net be RFC 3514 compliant.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:luck by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you download the Detailed Tables 2 file from the article it has the start of the question:

      " A part of the Internet known as the "Dark Net" is only accessible via special web browsers that allow you to surf the web anonymously. Journalists, human rights activists, dissidents and whistleblowers can use these services to rally against repression, exercise their fundamental rights to free expression and shed light upon corruption. At the same time, hackers, illegal marketplaces (eg. selling weap"

      But it's cut off there. However I do wish they would post the full questions right with their results in order to be transparent.

    7. Re:luck by DutchUncle · · Score: 2

      None of this is new. Confucius was very big on obedience to established authority, as were some of the ancient Greek philosophers. "Being disruptive" is obviously bad - "disruption" is definitely negative. The use of this word to describe business and social changes that are supposedly positive is, in itself, a recent style change; and the ready acceptance of such word redefinition is similarly a slightly longer-term-recent style change.

    8. Re:luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Evil will always triumph because GOOD is DUMB.

    9. Re:luck by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Notice that Ayn Rand was not for outlawing things she thought was bad.

      That's the province of social conservatives, progressives and the rest of the control freaks out there.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    10. Re:luck by kwbauer · · Score: 2

      According to those who still ask for it (seemingly the majority of the western world), it has gone extremely well. So well, in fact, that we should do more of it.

      Given the fact that Europe has been having issues with people using guns that are extremely difficult to legally own even in the "decadent" (by gun control standards) US, I'm not sure reality is on their side.

  2. The other 3 out of 10... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...have some fucking clue about how the internet works.

  3. ..I.. by zenlessyank · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..I..

  4. A ban on invisibility? by AlexanKulbashian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This reminds me of the Penn and Teller BS episode where people sign petitions to "End Womens' Suffrage". They need to know what it is before they vote on it. This is the problem on getting your computer education from CSI Cyber.. .like getting your cooking education from the Chef on the Muppets

    1. Re:A ban on invisibility? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Call it "dark net, home of criminals and terrorists" and what do you _think_ public opinion will be.

      Call it virtual private networks, home to banking transactions, corporate and personal communications - then what's the response?

      Both are encrypted and impenetrable to normal eavesdropping methods.

    2. Re:A ban on invisibility? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      I'm sure a "global majority" support outlawing the other guy's religion, too.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:A ban on invisibility? by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How about the darkest nets of them one, the ones where government secrets are kept from citizens so that corrupt politicians can stay in power. I vote 100% for the removal of those. So get rid of them first and then government agencies and then all businesses worth more than one hundred million dollars and then all religious organisations in fact any organisation with a tax free status and then I have no problem with them coming for the rest of us. Of course to be fair, I already have no digital privacy and encryption would definitely create problems for me (better to let them digitally in, then have them force their way physically in).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:A ban on invisibility? by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actual question:

      Q13. A part of the Internet known as the "Dark Net" is only accessible via special web browsers that allow you to surf the web anonymously. Journalists, human rights activists, dissidents and whistleblowers can use these services to rally against repression, exercise their fundamental rights to free expression and shed light upon corruption. At the same time, hackers, illegal marketplaces (eg. selling weapons and narcotics), and child abuse sites can also use these services to hide from law enforcement. Do you agree or disagree that the "Dark Net" should be shut down.

      I'm not sure it's that poorly worded. But it is an "internet poll", whatever that means.

      And looking at the actual data, in the US for instance it's only 33% who selected "strongly agree". 58% selected one of the wishy-washy "somewhat agree" or "somewhat disagree" boxes. Only 9% selected "strongly disagree".

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:A ban on invisibility? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      Problem solved - Be it resolved as of today, February 29, 2016, the Dark Net is officially dead.

      For all your criminal and paranoid needs, please use Unicorn Net, now with 5 extra rainbows out its ass.

    6. Re:A ban on invisibility? by Sabriel · · Score: 2

      It's poorly worded; specifically the paragraph ends with a conclusory phrase to which one is to agree or disagree: the "Dark Net" should be shut down.

      People tend to instinctively associate formal surveys with an "authority figure" in their mental space, and feel inclination or pressure to conform to expectations, so when an "authority" asks someone to agree or disagree with a conclusory phrase...

      Conducting a truly unbiased survey is difficult, even if that's what you're trying to accomplish.

    7. Re:A ban on invisibility? by houghi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Many years ago a newspaper asked me about a child porn case where the city was giving out webhosting. This was in 1997 or 1998.
      One of their questions was if it was OK for the city to hand out a place to host child porn for free at the cost of the citizens.

      It was obvious to me that they were trying to set me up to say that it was terrible that a city gives out places to host child porn.
      My reaction was to separate the hosting of child porn and the giving away of webspace. I praised the city to give people the opportunity to get a website (not evident then where I lived) and the fact that it is up to the police, whom I had informed about the child porn and they had done nothing, to go after illegal usage.

      I am well aware many people will not see what the intend of the questions is (besides from getting an answer)

      In the end the police tried to bully me by saying I was distributing childporn (I had send the URL to them, after I saw it in a Usenet group that fights Internet abuse), identity falsification (because I used face info to activate a free email account) and found me by calling my company telling my manager that they wanted to talk to me concerning a child porn case. Luckily my boss wasn't stupid and even offered to pay for a lawyer if anything ever came of it.

      Somehow after that I NEVER saw anything illegal anywhere ever again. Not online, not offline.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  5. depends on how the poll is worded... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a poll can be bend to agree with anything the sponsor wants.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:depends on how the poll is worded... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Q. A part of the Internet known as the "Dark Net" is only accessible via special web browsers that allow you to surf the web anonymously. Journalists, human rights activists, dissidents and whistleblowers can use these services to rally against repression, exercise their fundamental rights to free expression and shed light upon corruption. At the same time, hackers, illegal marketplaces (eg. selling weapons and narcotics), and child abuse sites can also use these services to hide from law enforcement. Do you agree or disagree that the "Dark Net" should be shut down.

    2. Re:depends on how the poll is worded... by x0ra · · Score: 2

      mention "child abuse" last and profit !

  6. Assuming it's not just an outright fabrication ... by fnj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This was probably a bullshit fucking push poll worded to elicit a certain response. But whether it was or it wasn't, here's a hearty disdainful BAAA BAAA BAAA to the fucking sheep who made up the 71%.

  7. It's probably more like this: by kheldan · · Score: 2

    The findings, from a poll of at least 1,000 people hand-picked by the respective governments in each of 24 countries, come as policymakers and technology companies argue over whether digital privacy should be curbed to help regulators and law enforcement more easily thwart hackers, identify malcontents, whistle-blowers, criticizers of governments and government leaders/officials, 'undesirables', and other digital threats.

    Emphasis mine, of course
    The U.S. is far from being the only country in the world that has a problem with nosy government and 'law enforcement' (more like 'will enforcement' in some cases, to be honest). We're just (still, for the moment) allowed to actually talk about it (without [much] fear of being made to disappear).

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  8. How about dark libraries? by Nkwe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Perhaps we should also ban all of the books in dark libraries? - that would be any book not found in a public library. After all there could be dangerous information in books that haven't been screened and approved for general public consumption by your local library staff.

  9. Global majority has no idea what 'Dark Net' is by kwerle · · Score: 2

    Poll indicates that 9/10 people have no idea how technology works.

  10. Summary: by vanyel · · Score: 2

    ...7 in 10 people don't understand the Internet

  11. Partial question wording by daremonai · · Score: 2
    If you're interested, here's the beginning of what appears to be the wording of the poll question in English. This is from a PDF on the Ipsos website, which unfortunately truncates the question. No idea how it was rendered in other languages, sorry:

    Q. A part of the Internet known as the "Dark Net" is only accessible via special web browsers that allow you to surf the web anonymously. Journalists, human rights activists, dissidents and whistleblowers can use these services to rally against repression, exercise their fundamental rights to free expression and shed light upon corruption. At the same time, hackers, illegal marketplaces (eg. selling weapons and narcotic ...

  12. Another way of putting it by aliquis · · Score: 2

    "A majority of societies are ok with how societies work and don't care enough for protecting the freedom of expression and opinions of those who don't, at-least not if that also allow more extreme people who don't like their society to act as-well."

    Such fucking news.

    Maybe they can with correctness call it "for democracy" as long as that democracy mean "for the views we the majority has decided to be the only correct ones", if the idea of a democracy is to be able to spread various opinions and effect society however then I don't see how it's democratic regardless of what those views are.

  13. All about the wording by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2

    "Do you agree that the government should be able to ban, monitor, or log all traffic on non-public networks, such as your home Wi-Fi or office?"

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  14. Future precedents... by jouassou · · Score: 2

    1. First, outlaw these darknets used by those pesky pedophiles and terrorists;
    2. Then, interpret "darknet" to cover all anonymous and/or encrypted communication;
    3. ???
    4. PROFIT!

  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Re: Shock by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Outlaw encrypted connections. No more SSL, no more legal VPN services, no more standardized, general encryption for connections. If you see anything you can't inspect the packets for at the telco without decryption, you order telecoms to dump those packets into the bit bucket at the router.

    Only exception: if you want to do business with someone securely, you have to register with them so you can receive the appropriate key which only works from your identity to their servers. That key is available to the government, and might even be already on file so they don't even need to ask the business for it. Maybe it is the government that issues your private key. Your packets have your ID number in the header, and the routing can only happen between your registered key and the IP address(es) of the merchant site.

    Not likely to happen in the US, but a place like China could force it. They already force all sorts of registration. If it was a real program, they'd have to phase it in or their economy flounders, but I think China is moving in that direction. They just need to re-write some protocols and get a few more capabilities.

  17. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  18. War on Darknets == covert War on Privacy by Morgaine · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of the Penn and Teller BS episode where people sign petitions to "End Womens' Suffrage".

    Your observation is accurate beyond mere criticism of the survey. The governments are deliberately raising the profile of this new "War on Darknets" because they don't dare call it what it really is, namely their War on Privacy . The deception created by tech-sounding wordplay which the majority don't understand is central to making their plan work, because otherwise they encounter pushback from the masses who value their privacy.

    "Darknet" has no specific meaning in CompSci, and so it can be used to denote any communication which NSA, FBI and DOJ do not control. This is very much a "thin end of the wedge" issue, because their desire to see and control everything will end only when there is no privacy left at all. These people don't believe in limits on their power.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
  19. Good bad and bad good by TiggertheMad · · Score: 2

    I noticed that you waffled on grey areas....

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!