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Over 1,400 Vulnerabilities Found In Automated Medical Supply System

An anonymous reader writes: Security researchers have discovered 1,418 vulnerabilities in CareFusion's Pyxis SupplyStation system -- automated cabinets used to dispense medical supplies -- that are still being used in the healthcare and public health sectors in the US and around the world. The vulnerabilities can be exploited remotely by attackers with low skills, and exploits that target these vulnerabilities are publicly available. Things already seem to be getting out hand.

85 comments

  1. Re:Should have used APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But only if you put an APP in your APP so you can APP while you APP.

  2. No surprise by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Medical and healthcare companies consistently seem to have *no idea* whatsoever about security, and *no idea* that they actually need to hire someone who knows security.

    Anything with a computer in it needs to take into account security. If you're putting code into your product and don't know security and aren't hiring someone who does, you're doing it wrong. Medical devices, cars, even Bluetooth toilets. If it communicates with the outside world or is exposed to users who aren't authorized full control over the device, it needs security. If you don't do it, your product is a ticking time bomb waiting for a researcher, if you're lucky, or a malicious attacker, if you aren't, to notice the lack of security. This will keep happening until everyone gets the message.

    1. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for that heavy insight. Seriously. Good job!

    2. Re: No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An Internet connected toilet is a ticking time bomb?? Ewwwwwww

    3. Re:No surprise by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

      At one time that was the case, but things are changing. These organizations have become well aware of what breaches can cost them from news related to the legal ramifications, and that's what finally gets people motivated to beef up security... the dollars at risk.

      The problem is exacerbated by the shoestring budgets that health care orgs run on these days, due to declining reimbursement, an increase in government as payor reimbursement models (but I repeat myself), and ever-increasing levels of unreimbursed care mean that money (and thus, the will) to refresh hardware and legacy systems is not there - particularly when clinical staff will say these older systems "are working just fine".

      Things are changing, but government efforts to massively increase the volume of care being given while simultaneously driving down reimbursement does not help security to become better.

    4. Re:No surprise by WarJolt · · Score: 0

      The problem is a false sense of security due to draconian development processes put in place to accommodate FDA oversight. It creates unhealthy dynamics that lead to poor security.

    5. Re: No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can easily flush a nation down the drain!

    6. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't believe it can happen to them. I worked at a major vendor of enterprise software that stored the master password to the central database in plaintext on every single customer's machine. With that password any person could remotely manipulate the database with no possibility of an audit trail. When your database consists of financial and employee time card data, that's really stupid. When I pointed out the vulnerability to management they just sais, "nobody's going to find that." When I wrote a proof of concept application that caused the software to show that I had clocked in for 12 hours on every Saturday and Sunday for the past year, they still didn't care. Oh well.

    7. Re: No surprise by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      An Internet connected toilet is a ticking time bomb?

      Only at Taco Bell during the lunch hour rush.

    8. Re:No surprise by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I was waiting for someone to blame it all on gubment.

    9. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If Jackie keeps stealing oxy from the Pyxis, Eddie's gonna get fired and they're going to replace it with a Pill-o-matix.

    10. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As someone who has worked on FDA approved medical devices, while the development processes can be a hassle to work with, ultimately they aren't the cause of poor security. What is the cause is that noone is willing to pay for it because a more secure product doesn't cause more checkboxes on the spec sheet to be filled out.

    11. Re:No surprise by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I was waiting for someone to blame it all on gubment.

      Well they do bear some of the responsibility for the situation.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    12. Re:No surprise by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Are you calling for more gubment regulation?

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    13. Re:No surprise by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

      Not government, it's the false belief that security is sufficiently handled by following a process. It's not enough to check the boxes if the boxes are wrong.

    14. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true about Medical and healthcare companies. Even if you work at one (i do) and point out Obvious security flaws, you will not be there very long.
      There are things that have happened with medical devices and systems that were known issues Years ago, that no one in management thought was important to address, even to this day.
      There are a lot of serious flaws in medical test equipment that can be used to alter the outcome of medical tests and/or data. You will hear about them as the months go by because they are so easy to find and exploit.

      I have suggested to one medical device manufacturer to use fuzzers and penetration testing to find issues before they ship. The fuzzers found more than 10 ways into the device(s) in the first 60 seconds.

      What sucks is that I have some integrity. But I have to work in the medical device industry to make a living, and integrity infers you do not work in the medical device industry to make a living.

    15. Re:No surprise by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Now that I'll totally agree with.

    16. Re:No surprise by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Are you calling for more gubment regulation?

      I'm calling for the gubment to accommodate normal software update practices in certified software.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    17. Re: No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you never know, it could be full of DORMANT CYBER PATHOGENS! We should get the FBI to inspect every toilet, just in case.

    18. Re: No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not "no idea", it's psychopaths running the hospitals.

      I quit a job over a Pixis machine - out models estimated 1-2 deaths per year in a medical system due to a lack of error handling and the CIO would not fund the required work. "Cheaper to settle the lawsuits" he said.

  3. Wat? by wkwilley2 · · Score: 0

    Things already seem to be getting out hands.

    Getting or giving? Big difference.

    On a completely unrelated note, I could use a hand.

    --
    Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
    1. Re:Wat? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      "The vulnerabilities can be exploited remotely by attackers with low skills"

      This also applies to the editors, for whom apparently the ability to edit text into something coherent in the English language is only a soft requirement.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. Re:Should have used APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should've done an Easter special post on Sunday... like:

    If these LUDDITES used eggs instead of LUDDITE software, everything would be 100% eggy, because only eggs can egg eggs!

    Eggs!

  5. End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by bigdady92 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No Shit sherlock.

    Windows XP and Windows 2003 systems are prone to all sorts of horrible security flaws. Reading the Fucking Article I see that the newer, non EOL, equipment isn't prone to any of these problems.

    I wonder how many vulnerabilities are in older Cisco routers that haven't been patched since 2007?

    --
    Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The bulk attacks that are likely enabled by XP/2003 I would agree with you on. However, they are representative of many other problems with brand new Pyxis units from what I hear. The unspoken word seems to be that it is still less vulnerable than the traditional human-centric supply systems. The typical solution is defense in depth, with a key-code door lock to the room and a camera in the room-- so things can be tracked by belt and suspenders in a failure/attack.

    2. Re: End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      These things sit in the hallways on every floor in my hospital.

    3. Re:End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by JoeDuncan · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many vulnerabilities are in older Cisco routers that haven't been patched since 2007?

      42

    4. Re:End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      ++++

      This.

      Nothing is going to be inherently secure in the medical field. Too many people need to get at information / equipment / supplies. You will have breaches.

      For a Pyxis-type system you need to be able to see if someone is shortchanging the loading of the drug or taking out drugs where they shouldn't. You also need to ensure basic database integrity (surprisingly the vendors don't seem to think much of this concept). These machines don't control anything else and don't have much patient information in them.

      So you monitor by other means, you audit and you realize that Pyxis is so old that one is visible in the scene in 'Serenity' when Simon infiltrates the lab River has been kept in. Think back about the state of network security back then. When spaceships had toggle switches and blinky lights (and plumbing fixtures on the bridge attached to old industrial power cabinets, but I digress).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re: End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      For sterile products or drugs?

      Who really cares about sterile products...

    6. Re: End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      That's not exactly the best design. There are a lot of ways around the problem - you put them in nurses' stations where the likelihood of someone observing an intruder is very high, you put cameras on the area, you limit accounts from being able to dispense meds when outside their proper work area, you put them on a separate network. I'm an anesthesiologist. If I need to get into a drug dispensing machine I need to get into it right the hell now, but my login only works in the operating rooms and the obstetric suite. It's a bit silly (if I wanted to divert drugs, I could do so easily, as I go through enough that taking 10% of the total would be more than enough to supply anything less than a hardcore habit), but it does exist.

      I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but until we have perfect computer security, you're going to have to have the other methods as well. Even very good security doesn't save you much (if any) money.

    7. Re:End of Life systems prone to New Attacks= by plover · · Score: 1

      Sure, you need to audit the systems (as the anesthesiologist pointed out above, he believes he could siphon 10% of his prescriptions without notice.) But the human side isn't the security issue here. Any automated dispensing system is going to need auditing of the inventory, regardless of how "digitally secure" the appliance is, because it's full of really valuable drugs.

      The real problems at stake are access when it's needed; and integrity that the drug dispensed is the drug prescribed in the correct quantities and dosages.

      An ordinary hacker could infect the Pyxis system with ransomware just by chance, because the dispenser happened to be on the same subnet as the nurse who opened the infected Word attachment. That's a classic denial of service, and in the wrong circumstances could delay access to lifesaving medicine.

      Worse, a dedicated hacker could get malware on there to try to cause havoc; perhaps the patient who was prescribed 2 250mg capsules of Tylenol actually received 2 500mg capsules of Oxycontin. Sure, the nurse scans the patient's bracelet before administering the dose, but the system reports that it dispensed exactly what was prescribed; so nobody catches the error until it's too late.

      There are plenty of Hollywood scenarios that could play out here; watch the (terrible) movie The Net to see one happen to Dennis Miller's character.

      --
      John
  6. This should surprise no one by ranton · · Score: 2

    I worked at a competitor of Pyxis who created similar automated drug dispensing cabinets, and the market research at the time was that they all were pretty insecure. When I left my company they were dealing with a defect where anyone with a screwdriver could bypass the locking mechanism of our newest model (meant for the area where the schedule 2 drugs were kept).

    At the time (almost 10 years ago) these devices were meant to help with inventory management, not to be ultra-secure safes. Anyone with even moderate training using these devices could steal drugs if they wanted. Most thieves were caught only because of the sheer volume of drugs they stole over months or even years.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    1. Re:This should surprise no one by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think that's the major issue with medical IT and computing in general. The products are designed to do something, and security is an afterthought. That's made worse because many of the products were designed a long time ago and not updated for various reasons, including a long regulatory approval process to get them to market.

      So you have a supply cabinet that was designed to help with inventory, but now we expect it to be a safe. And the network infrastructure that probably grew ad hoc in the hospitals was just meant to enable interconnection and security only became an eventual concern as attacker capabilities grew. Because the product cycle is so long for medical purposes, they don't react in a timely way to anything, especially something that is not the primary concern of the equipment that is being deployed. So now you have this issue.

      I don't think this is a permanent problem for hospitals, but there will be some sacrificial lambs before the process changes. Once those cases are over, there will be more money put into security at those places.

      Unfortunately, it's just another thing that is likely to raise the cost of medical care because they will continue to be bad at it, but now they'll be trying to compensate for their incompetence by overpaying for security products and services.

    2. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also used to work at a similar company. Everything was a joke. They were fighting to even make the things work, let alone do it well and securely. Pass users between management system web interfaces by passing only the integer user ID in the redirect URL? Sure, why not? Only our system can generate a URL.

      Most of these companies don't bother investing in security audits for their websites, let alone their machines. The one time I saw the result of an audit, they never even got past our homepage. Full access to everything. Web, internal, dev, production: everything. Hospitals should start demanding security audits before procuring these things.

    4. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, about as secure as the old med carts :) Sure they had a key...AND a 5 button combination, either works. What is that 25 possible choices?, took me all of 3 minutes to get in.

      Awesome tool chests, they 'lock' themselves if you leave them unattended :) Hey, 3 minutes beats zero and a deal for $50.

    5. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5 buttons is 3125 possible choices, you musta got lucky. Or else all that masturbating you do has really made your fingers fast.

    6. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you factor in the operation of the buttons? You can only press each one once as it sets the tumbler in the lock.

    7. Re:This should surprise no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      120 = 5*4*3*2*1

  7. Infection??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The submitter should scan his system. He may have that evil keyboard-changer joke infection that wasn't supposed to be released until this Friday (March 32nd).

  8. Re: Should have used APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you want to APP while you CRAP?

  9. Beware of those "Getting out hands"! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because, well, just because.

    1. Re:Beware of those "Getting out hands"! by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Especially if they are the hands of fate!

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  10. War Story on Medical System Security by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    . . . . year or two back, my oldest daughter entered a program to learn the "EPIC" medical records system. Now, admittedly, we're a geekhaus, my daughters were doing computers at age 5, and my youngest managed to hack the oldest by examining her browser cache at age 8.

    But she came back from the first day or two of training, shaking HER head. Not only was there no folder security, but, at least as configured there, every user was an admin.. Each of which could mess with another's files and account settings.

    Worse still, they were being trained at the site where the system was being hosted for production. No physical security. No backup power: in fact, zero redundancy whatsoever. And data backup ? "What's that ?"

    She wrote up a 2-page summary of problems SHE saw (and her training was in Medical Administration, although she DID learn Security from me. . .). She sends it to the POC at the Hospital the system was in the process of being installed for. . . .and the EPIC people dropped her from the course.

    There's a cherry on the top of this Sundae of Fail: she was eventually hired by the Hospital as, surprisingly enough, a Ward Medical Admin. And the IT Department comes to HER for help and suggestions. . . .

    1. Re:War Story on Medical System Security by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      EPIC is like any other big system the base design sucks, no different than any big Oracle or SAS application.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:War Story on Medical System Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, EPIC is pretty evil. They also attempt to keep any of their ex-employees for working in the field.

    3. Re:War Story on Medical System Security by dmr001 · · Score: 2

      Epic is a big suite of applications that run on top of a big iron server - typically Unix (ours is AIX, I think). There's fine-grained user permissions in the application itself. End users do not have shell access or filesystem access or MUMPS prompt access, and everything has an audit trail. A select group of IT nerds get access to a text-based system running as a (Unix) application (with audit trails), and, at least at our organization, next to no one gets MUMPS prompt access or shell access. We have hot swappable servers located on opposing coasts of North America. I can't speak to the implementation at your daughter's site.

      There may be examples out of there of hackers breaking into Epic; I'm not aware of any. Since our implementation was modeled after Epic's recommendations my impression is they've got their heads screwed on straight, security-wise.

    4. Re:War Story on Medical System Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Meditech user here. Still uses MUMPS though.

      I can tell you for a fact that if you have access to their report writer you have access to MUMPS. Although the vendor has attempted to exclude access to the more "dangerous" functions (basically anything that is a write operation), their logic for doing so has some giant holes in it.

      This is, in a generic sense, the problem with a lot of these old systems. They don't have modern object or scoped security and what they do have has gaps in it. Gaps that can be exploited.

      Now this isn't a huge problem when the users doing the exploiting are employees who have a business justification for what they do. When you expose the system to malware and hackers though, then the system reveals it's weakness.

      All these vendors talk a good game. Mostly they've not been tested by real black hats and they are complacent and sitting on a mountain of technical debt. It's not pretty but I'm convinced that only some epic hacks (hah!) will change the minds of a Neil Pappalardo or a Judy Faulkner. Nothing else will cause the behaviour changes needed.

  11. Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by khz6955 · · Score: 1

    "The vulnerabilities can be exploited remotely by attackers with low skills"

    Then what the f**k are these devices doing even directly connected to the public Internet?

    1. Re:Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The vulnerabilities can be exploited remotely by attackers with low skills"

      Then what the f**k are these devices doing even directly connected to the public Internet?

      Outsourced IT management vendors or company IT staff in another building needing to access or monitor equipment, etc. Not that these are good justifications, just common ones.

      That, and "remotely" doesn't necessary mean over the Internet - it could also be on-premises wireless access.

    2. Re:Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was more trouble in trying to figure this f'ing line out:

      "Things already seem to be getting out hands."

      Are the carts now giving out hands? Are things getting out of hands? HOLY SHIT

    3. Re:Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by JoeDuncan · · Score: 1

      ...what the f**k are these devices doing even directly connected to the public Internet?

      Dispensing drugs to script kiddies?

    4. Re:Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a typo filled description of a non related story (a recent ransomware attack, whereas this is a story about vulns in a specific device)
      Probably meant to say "getting out of hand"

    5. Re:Vulnerabilities found in dispensing system by plover · · Score: 1

      Then what the f**k are these devices doing even directly connected to the public Internet?

      I'm not aware of any such devices being directly connected to the public internet. But, they're on a hospital or pharmacy's internal network, and those networks almost always have direct access to the Internet.

      Hospital network admins have a thankless job. They have to secure their networks against all this kind of crap, but every time they lock down some terrible gaping security hole, the doctors scream "I need this Ultrasound machine to send PDFs to my office! You can't disable the FTP function or close the FTP ports on the firewall just because you claim there's a security flaw! I need them sent NOW!!"

      With luck, the admins can do some simple things, like segregate the WiFi hotspot traffic from the internal hospital traffic. They can run IDP appliances, and sometimes they can configure switches to detect rogue MAC addresses. But when it comes to the devices that the doctors interact with, no excuses are acceptable.

      In a hospital, the doctors give God orders.

      --
      John
  12. I hate it when things get out hands. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate it when things get out hands.

  13. Re: Should have used APPS! by WarJolt · · Score: 1

    Oh... who doesn't APP while they CRAP?

  14. I weep for what Slashdot editing has become... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Things already seem to be getting out hands."

  15. Need to leave backdoors for the zombie apocalypse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't want raiders and minutemen unable to access medical supplies locked in a secure machine

  16. epic MUMPS by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    Does MUMPS even do security or does it need root / admin to run at all?

    1. Re:epic MUMPS by Salgak1 · · Score: 2

      No clue. . . but as MUMPS is now 50 years old, it's entirely possible that it was built without multi-user systems in mind. Looking at the basic description in Wikipedia, and perusing the Annotated MUMPS standard, I don't even see provisions for accounts, much less security. . .

    2. Re: epic MUMPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EPIC runs on Intersystem's Cache, which is a descendant of MUMPS. And Cache does have it's own multiuser security layer, but application developers can make poor choices on how to use it.

    3. Re:epic MUMPS by tengu1sd · · Score: 1

      The original MUMPS started on VMS VAX computers. Security was baked into the operating system. Users ran in captive accounts restricted to application access. You could run multiple departments on one platform with restricted rights. The grandchild, CACHE now runs on UNIX and Windows as another back end database.

  17. Re:Need to leave backdoors for the zombie apocalyp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw this guy driving a pickup truck yesterday that said "ZOMBIE RESPONSE TEAM" on the side.

  18. 3rd party vendors control devices in hospitals by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    3rd party vendors control devices in hospitals and by control it can be way more then just IT control of them.

  19. Re: Should have used APPS! by wizkid · · Score: 1

    You people are APP'ING CRAZY!

    you just can't app the app! You need to load the app for that.

    --
    I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong :)
  20. COST by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    This is why I don't feel like my expertise is a frivolous cost, no matter how many times corporations try to tell me that.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  21. I'd be proud by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

    I don't know about you, but I'd be proud as hell if I'd managed to write an application that had 1400+ vulnerabilities.

    It must have taken a lot of work and testing to make sure it was that porous and vulnerable. I mean, just think of all the work involved in taking out all of the bounds checking, sanity tests, input validation, error checking, etc etc.

    IF ($INPUT){
          GRANT FULL ADMIN SUPERUSER ACCESS OMG;
    }ELSE{
          GRANT FULL ADMIN SUPERUSER ACCESS OMG;
    }

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  22. Primary Design Considerations by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Pyxis (& similar supply cabinets) were primarily concerned with keeping unauthorized staff from taking prescription drugs from the cabinets and properly documenting the authorized clinicians who did access drugs.

    From what I've heard hear in this post, it seems security mostly stopped at that level of clinician access limitations.

  23. Hack yourself and sue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long until someone gets hospitalized, hacks their own medicine dispenser in a harmless yet threatening way and then sues the hospital for millions? That might easily end up being far more lucrative (and, possibly, easier?) than ransomware-ing the place...

    1. Re:Hack yourself and sue? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      How long until someone gets hospitalized, hacks their own medicine dispenser in a harmless yet threatening way and then sues the hospital for millions? That might easily end up being far more lucrative (and, possibly, easier?) than ransomware-ing the place...

      "Hey Barb - what's that guy in the patient gown and a laptop doing in front of the Pyxis?"

      "Dunno, maybe he's the tech - it was acting wonky last week."

      "Oh, I guess you're right. We'll just let him work."

      Sometimes imagination is a bad thing.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Hack yourself and sue? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Better yet. it could be a good way for Americans to cover their healthcare costs!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:Hack yourself and sue? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and if you get busted the jail / prison will pick up the healthcare bill.

  24. Re:You HOPE somebody will throw you same CHANGE. L by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obamacare has nothing to do with this story at all, but don't let that stop you from getting your dig in on big government: The issue here is entirely 100% due to the war on some drugs and the government telling everyone what they can and can't put in their bodies.

  25. "Professionals Know Best" Syndrome by jasnw · · Score: 2

    I've seen this problem in many organizations run by people who consider themselves to be in a "profession" like doctors, lawyers, and to a varied extent anyone with a non-computer PhD. The attitude seems to be that "I am smart, so I can figure this out without paying someone who knows what they're doing, and I'll do a better and less expensive job." This applies to many aspects of running an organization, with IT and finance/budget being two very egregious areas. I've seen many a small R&D company fail because its principle owners/operators try to do the finance/budget side after the company has become larger than a couple of people, and lots of computer security issues in companies where this "we can do it all" attitude holds sway. They can't quite see that people pay them for their expertise, so why should they balk at paying other people for expertise they don't themselves have. I've been expecting a security meltdown at hospitals and medical facilities ever since the big money pushed in a few years ago by the Government to drag medical IT into at least the last decade of the 20th century. This will be quite the roller-coaster ride.

    1. Re:"Professionals Know Best" Syndrome by Kevin+by+the+Beach · · Score: 2

      Good Point... I helped a Lawyer friend upgrade his systems. He didn't want an in-house IT person, so I strongly recommended the cloud based solution. One of his practice partners had too much regulated and sensitive data to move to the cloud (I warned them about the common practice of cloud vendors with their contracts which absolve the cloud vendor of nearly all accountability...) That contract had so many red lines by the time they were done it was funny.

  26. Getting out hand anything like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    giving out head?

  27. Carefusion is a holding company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Carefusion just buys other companies, e.g., ventilator companies.
    Not surprising they don't care about security (or safety of ventilators, look it up).
    Internet of critical sh*t.

  28. "Security researchers" by ressolute · · Score: 1

    Apparently "security researchers" now means "anybody who can run a Nessus scan. I am disappointed.

  29. Insane amount of work to fix downstream too! by Kevin+by+the+Beach · · Score: 1

    CRAP... I don't want to clean up the mess when somebody does a knee jerk reaction and jumps first (without looking at downstream dependencies)

  30. Medically Secure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone supporting one of the largest integrated health systems in world, I'd say part of the issue is that there is tremendous pressure to keep costs low across the healthcare industry (expect for maybe the drug makers), and this creates tremendous pressure to deliver "functionality" at the expense of non-functional things, such as security. I'm amazed constantly the lack of quality that comes from the IT products in this industry. Riddles with security holes. While I'd like to say it's something as simple as "get the developers to write better more secure code" there seems to be a cultural thing across the industry at the executive management level that whenever quality and security are brought up there seems to be an acceptance it takes a back seat to functionality, as this all costs money, something that they're unwilling or unable (budgetary) to spend. Unfortunate.

  31. Fixed these things 2009-2013, my reaction - meh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Security-through-obscurity

    SupplyStations are usually located in remote/very small medical facilities and DID NOT utilize the Supply Station server at the care facility. Most of the ones I encountered used a dialup modem to communicate with a 3rd party pharmacy or other billing party every 15-30 min. SS Servers were located in pharmacies, more on them below. To be fair, though, I don't know what if any, encryption they used in this specific implementation.

    For the SSs having an actual LAN connection and SupplyStationServer onsite, the entire SupplyStation implementation was isolated on its own subnet and any outside communication was blocked, NATed, or over VPN to specific third parties including Cardinal Health/Carefusion support. I forget the name of their remote support software, but it's similar to Bomgar.

    Getting physical access to these machines is pretty difficult at a facility. Nurses are pretty aggressive asking you who you are, what are you doing here and the machine are usually in locations where they congregate.

    Carefusion support and engineers are typically excellent. HIPAA is a big deal and Carefusion doesn't like lawsuits any more than any other company.

    [More on me, I was an affiliate/subcontractor for CF. I worked for a company holding a contract with CF. I made on average $11.50 an hour, no bennies with this company... They stopped trusting affiliates to use their remote support software 6mo after I started working for them (awesome). I didn't help with actual IT implementation unless it was to move a heavy thing from one place to another - the above is from conversations with CF engineers, facility IT staff, CF call center personnel, and hindsight illuminated by subsequent career experience ]

  32. What are the actual vulnerabilities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought I RTFA but I don't understand what the actual vulnerabilities are. I work in a hospital with hundreds, if not thousands of these (no idea if ours are EOL or not), but I can't figure out what the actual clinical implications of these vulnerabilities are (mostly because I can't see what what the vulnerabilities allow).

  33. Re: Should have used APPS! by davester666 · · Score: 1

    It hurts whenever I CRAP an APP.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!