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Putin Says Panama Papers Part of US Plot to Weaken Russia (go.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Russia President Vladimir Putin says he has no links to offshore accounts unveiled in the Panama Papers. Moreover, Putin believes that these leaks are part of Western efforts to weaken Russia. As ABC News reports, Putin criticised Western media for involving his name in offshore business even though his name didn't feature in any of the leaked documents. Speaking in St Petersburg, Putin added that it certainly seems like a US-led disinformation campaign waged against Russia. Putin also defended a cellist friend who was named as the alleged owner of an offshore company, noting that his friend is a philanthropist.People in Russia, sadly, don't seem to care much about Panama Papers. As Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reports, most Russians haven't heard of -- or don't care about -- the Panama Papers. The media house interviewed 30 people on the street, of which it found only 1 person thought it was wrong. (video).

41 of 207 comments (clear)

  1. in Soviet russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Panama papers leak you!

    1. Re:in Soviet russia... by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm always amused, mind you, why autocrats always view themselves as effectively the "state", so that when some allegation is made against them, suddenly, it's all about destabilizing the "state".

      As it is, Putin's presence in the Panama Papers, so far as I understand it, is notable by his absence. Just about everyone around him is multi-zillionaires, but Putin is not to be found. The same goes for the Chinese Premier, an apparently very poor man with lots of rich relatives.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:in Soviet russia... by Archtech · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Putin is thought to be the richest man in the world.

      "is thought"??? The unattributed, anonymous passive voice? Is that honestly the best you can do?

      You are thought to be a ridiculous dork.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    3. Re:in Soviet russia... by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

      Shouldn't you be deleting a Wikipedia article right now?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  2. Polls by Princeofcups · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "People in Russia, sadly, don't seem to care much about Panama Papers. As Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reports, most Russians haven't heard of -- or don't care about -- the Panama Papers. The media house interviewed 30 people on the street, of which it found only 1 person thought it was wrong. (video)."

    Does not follow. You mean to say: only one person was willing to speak out against it. Polls have little to do with what people think. They only tell you what they are willing to admit.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    1. Re:Polls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, it was a sample of 30 (Ooooo) random people on the street. For all we know, these were people who just left a Putin Indoctrination Meeting or people leaving a bar that was closing in Moscow.

      Truly, Journalism is Dead. Also in other news. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

    2. Re:Polls by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Russians aren't stupid just because they're drunk. They know that talking to foreign reporters (or pretty much any reporter) can get very, very career-limiting.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:Polls by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a known fact in Russia one does not speak out openly or things will happen to you. Bad things. Just ask Boris Nemtsov.

      Oh wait, you can't. Putin ordered his assassination in a pathetic attempt to silence the work he and others had done showing the systemic corruption in Russia.

      Go ask the Tartars of Crimea who have their homes invaded by Russian police searching for anything that is against the official party line or that references Tartar culture. Since Russian's invasion of Crimea this is a daily occurrence, not to mention any Tartar newspaper radio service being shut down.

      Just the other day Putin ordered the creation of a "national guard", over 400K strong with tanks and artillery to be used, he claims, to fight terrorism. The reality is with conditions worsening in Russia due to sanctions over its invasion of Ukraine and plunging oil prices, with elections in the fall Putin is planning to use this national guard to suppress any vocal opposition to his hand chosen candidates. In other words, if you speak out against Heir Putin, the national guard can and will shoot you on sight, no other order necessary.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    4. Re:Polls by fbobraga · · Score: 2

      It's a known fact [...]

      Caution with that! Normally, it's a lie (I don't mean it is in this case...)

    5. Re:Polls by nickol · · Score: 5, Funny

      I live in Russia and I can confirm that most Russians are sure that most Russians haven't heard of -- or don't care about -- the Panama Papers.

  3. To be fair by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Funny

    I live in the US and I barely care about the Panama Papers either.

    Actually... the first thing I think of when I see "Panama Papers" is David Lee Roth for some reason...

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re: To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The largest bank in the Nordic countries was caught hiding client money in Panama etc. Tax evasion is sort of a big deal there with all the commies and so on. You should all expect a big mess with European banks because of all this. Also expect the US to put some sanctions and set some fines on those darn banks too.

    2. Re: To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tax evasion is sort of a big deal there with all the commies and so on.

      Much of what is documented in the Panama Papers is tax avoidance, not tax evasion.

      In fact, this is the big story here, just how much tax avoidance has been made legal by western governments at the request of the rich and powerful.

    3. Re:To be fair by gtall · · Score: 2

      That's because in the U.S., we have Delaware, no need to go to Panama.

    4. Re: To be fair by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The wealthy will always avoid paying taxes. Taxes are for us little people, always have been. Useful idiots like Bernie always talk about the 1% to distract the tax increases being passed along to everyone else. Taxes are regressive. All of them.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    5. Re: To be fair by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And yet the US has lead the way in shutting down probably the most infamous haven; the Swiss banks. It was the US who put the most pressure on Switzerland to reform banking practices and start abiding some reasonable standards of transparency. In fact, I'd say the popularity of other tax havens in the intervening years is because Switzerland is no longer so friendly to those seeking to hide their cash.

      The reality here is that the one government who could do a lot to reduce avoidance and out and out evasion and laundering is Britain. It's overseas dependencies are some of the most notorious tax havens, but every attempt to close loopholes has been met with resistance. Judging by the increasingly hot water David Cameron is in, I think we know why.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re: To be fair by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As Simon Jenkins at the Guardian notes, while tax avoidance may be legal, the use of them, particularly by lawmakers, is just plain wrong. David Cameron, in particular, has stood against closing loopholes, and now it turns out that, because of his old man's dealings, he has been a beneficiary.

      And this is the crux of the problem that the Panama Papers reveal. Yes, there is certainly a criminal element to all of this, in that these havens are used by people out and out evading taxes, and some criminals are using these havens to launder or hide their money (much as they used to do with their private Swiss bank accounts). But the real scandal here is that it is the very people who make the laws that create tax havens who are either directly making the laws (like Cameron) or have an extraordinary amount of influence over the laws being passed. These aren't just Joe and Jane Average using a few tax deductions or trusts to reduce their tax bill, these are some of he wealthiest people in the world, the kind of people that can put all sorts of pressure on lawmakers to make sure that their "avoidance" schemes stay legal.

      The Panama Papers are an example of a worse kind of crime that evasion and money laundering. They are an example of the fundamental corruption of many even "liberal" political systems. In a way, this makes someone like Cameron no better than Putin, except Putin actually looks to be a lot smarter than the Prime Ministers of Britain and Iceland.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re: To be fair by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Yes, and those poor American workers from circa-WW2 to the early 80s cried all the way to the bank, until Reagan saved them from their plight.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re: To be fair by Agent0013 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And yet the US has lead the way in shutting down probably the most infamous haven; the Swiss banks.

      Yeah, I'm not so sure they are actually trying to fight this stuff. If they were then the three states that allow anonymous shell corporations would not be so popular. The US is rated third in the world for "Offshore" shell games.

      The Tax Justice Network ranks the U.S. third in terms of the secrecy and scale of its offshore industry, behind Switzerland and Hong Kong but ahead of the Cayman Islands and Luxembourg.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    9. Re: To be fair by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Gini is an interesting concept. But I wouldn't call it anything other than what it is, socialist (Fascist) crap.

      Redistribution of wealth is a noble idea, but sucks in practice, as it is entirely elitist driven. Elites decide who is "too wealthy" and then tax the poor and middle class in an effort to get the wealthy's money. Meanwhile the wealthy buy access to those in power, and move their wealth to places that aren't taxed and none of it actually helps anyone.

      The strange thing about socialism is that it works in theory, but never works in practice. Because eventually you run out of other people's money.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    10. Re: To be fair by Rakarra · · Score: 2

      Taxes are regressive. The rich will avoid them, and the middle class and poor cannot. You can say it is "BS" all you want, but I have evidence, and you have your "BS" ;)

      Yet in the US, the top 1% of earners paid nearly half of the federal income taxes. The top 20% paid around 85% of the federal income taxes, which makes up about half of the federal budget. Those numbers come from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a progressive think-tank, but they don't seem to be controversial to conservatives or progressives. They certainly don't square with the notion that the rich can just avoid all their taxes. They certainly have more ways around some taxes, but they certainly have more taxes aimed at them that the poor don't have to pay either. Where the poor gets hit more is with the payroll tax, but the services the payroll tax funds (social security, Medicare, unemployment insurance) are not supposed to act as wealth redistributors -- you get out what you put in. Theoretically. In reality, money moves through the federal government in creative ways.

    11. Re: To be fair by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Yes, the real problem is the hypocrisy. Government leaders who on one hand will be encouraging citizens to dutifully pay their taxes, or who campaign that they side with the little people instead of the wealthy, then end up looking like fools or liars when they're caught playing tax tricks with their money.

  4. Putin would make a helluva SJW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Legitimate criticism of my wrongdoing, backed up by objectively verifiable facts, is in fact harassment and will not be tolerated."

    Just give him some neon hair, a side-shave and some problem glasses and have him write blogposts about how objects in C++ are oppressive toward womxn.

  5. Charitable foundation by rfengr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hell, in the USA you just need to establish a charitable foundation like the Clintons.

    1. Re:Charitable foundation by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Exactly this. Instead of paying 50% in taxes, you spend 10% being a "charity", and keep the difference for personal use. But they get a pass because they aren't (R) (who are just as bad).

      Talk the BS, but don't have to walk it, same for both (D) and (R), just different BS being spewed

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Charitable foundation by mi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or Mark Zuckerberg or the Koch Brothers or anyone else who has millions/billions and don't want to pay taxes on the money.

      In countries, that do not tax wealth, only your actual income matters to your tax-bill. What you already have is irrelevant.

      After all, I'm sure there's not a single Republican lawmaker who's upset at Bill Clinton for having such great economic success [...]

      Whether other politicians are squeaky clean or not, you've got to admit, the Clinton Foundation racket is something special — not just for the scale, but also for the brazenness of it...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  6. And out came the conspiracy theorists ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Informative

    The conspiracy theorists are playing right along by saying there are no Americans mentioned in the Panama Papers so it must have been scrubbed, despite (1) hundreds of Americans being named in them, and (2) you don't have to go offshore to hide money. The US works just fine for hiding money.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:And out came the conspiracy theorists ... by swb · · Score: 2

      I'll mostly buy that argument, but one thing that seems weird is how the NY Times did almost no reporting on the topic. The silence was so deafening that the Public Editor or whatever the column is called actually wrote a column on why they hadn't reported much on it.

      The closest non-conspiracy angles I could come with for this were:

      1) They weren't invited to the journalism party on this "leak" so they could on report on it as the documents were released, and responsible journalism meant a lot of work trying to verify information. This was basically the Public Editor column.

      This could also be called "not invented here", a deliberate attempt to downplay a story they weren't part of and had to play catch-up on.

      2) It's *kind of* a non-story -- before the Panama Papers, did anyone go to bed at night assured that tin-pot dictators weren't somehow funneling money into overseas bank accounts? I believe Donald Trump is more honest about building a wall Mexico will pay for than I do that dictators aren't siphoning money into personal bank accounts.

      I do think it's weird that Putin would funnel money overseas for personal use. Is he planning on retiring to Costa Rica or something? My guess is that Putin is boss and lives in Russia forever, which means he basically has the entire resources of the state at his personal disposal. Why bother moving money overseas at all? When a time comes that Putin isn't boss, he will either live in relative luxury at state expense or he will be taking a dirt nap, at state expense. There is no scenario where Putin lives in the South of France as a expat and has to cover his own caviar and vodka tab.

      The paucity of influential Americans on the list I mostly just assign to the fact that influential Americans' wealth is already dollar denominated and doesn't need to be surreptitiously converted from local Monopoly money into dollars, rich Americans already set the tax code to their benefit and are far better off just parking it in whatever Congressionally approved tax sheltered investment they can buy.

    2. Re:And out came the conspiracy theorists ... by PRMan · · Score: 2

      My guess is that Putin is boss and lives in Russia forever, which means he basically has the entire resources of the state at his personal disposal. Why bother moving money overseas at all?

      It's good for dictators to have a backup plan...

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  7. Big surprise? by wwalker · · Score: 3, Informative

    Don't forget, Panama Papers is just a subset of data that was released. Heavily edited. Conveniently, not a single US politician mentioned in the released data. Also, Putin's name isn't there either, just his "childhood friend". Yet in all the newspapers it was reported that Putin was directly implicated. So, what else would you expect him to claim? Also, he actually wasn't the first to come to the same conclusion:
    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/...

    1. Re:Big surprise? by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      Don't forget, Panama Papers is just a subset of data that was released. Heavily edited. Conveniently, not a single US politician mentioned in the released data. Yet in all the newspapers it was reported that Putin was directly implicated

      From wikipedia:

      McClatchy Newspapers, the only participating US news organization, has found four Americans in the documents, all of whom were previously either accused or convicted of financial crimes such as fraud and tax evasion.[43] In 2008, Mossack Fonseca reportedly utilized a 90-year-old British man to conceal the offshore accounts of Marianna Olszewski, a well-known US businesswoman.[197]

      In response to the lack of American individuals in the documents, the editor of Süddeutsche Zeitung said: "Just wait for what is coming next."

      Also, it has been revealed that Mossack Fonseca created over 1000 US corporations in the last 15 years. And most accounts I have read have not directly implicated Putin, however quite a few people and entities closely associated with Putin (such as his eldest daughter's godfather-a professional cellist-who had assets of $100million in the leaked documents, or Rossiya Bank) are included in the documents.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  8. Get what you deserve by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    People in Russia, sadly, don't seem to care much about Panama Papers.

    Yeah, I really don't care. The people of Russia clearly aren't terribly interested in a free press, an uncorrupt government or any semblance of a modern open democratic state. If that's what they want, that's what they get and I'm not going to get too worked up about their choices.

    The Russian people don't need the Panama papers to see the obvious corruption and political nepotism. The Olympics should have provided more than enough proof and most people didn't care. If they don't care, I don't care.

    1. Re:Get what you deserve by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People in Russia, sadly, don't seem to care much about Panama Papers.

      Yeah, I really don't care. The people of Russia clearly aren't terribly interested in a free press, an uncorrupt government or any semblance of a modern open democratic state. If that's what they want, that's what they get and I'm not going to get too worked up about their choices.

      You are correct. I can't tell you why it's that way though, but it's been that way for a long time. I posted on this earlier in the week. There are stories going back to the days of the Tsars where the Tsar would send out his minions to rough up or kill the peasants and the survivors would wail and say "If only the Tsar knew what was happening, he would save us!" when what happened was because he ordered it. Russians love to believe the guy at the top is wonderful and kind and it's really the people under him who are evil. This is why it's not difficult at all to find people in Russia who revere Stalin still, which to me is just a hair breadth's of difference from revering Hitler. I've read that Putin himself doesn't seem to own much of anything but his daughters, son-in-law and close friends have billions. So it allows him to provide enough plausible deniability that he's not corrupt and crooked for the public to buy it. They really don't care.

  9. Re:Follow the Money by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2
    There are over 300 Americans in the Panama Papers. Also, the US is now the #1 tax haven. Just search for "US #1 tax haven" and choose your poison, Forbes, Bloomberg,etc.

    Why would Americans wanting to hide stuff go off-shore when they can do everything they need to do right in the USA?

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  10. Re:No argument here by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The money lost to tax avoidance can give everyone an extra couple of grand a year in their pockets. It's not "free money" - it's returning your money, that was stolen from you because others refused to pay their fair share, from them, making restitution to you.

    Think of what that extra money would do for the economy. For yourself.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  11. Re:Follow the Money by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And there's the Russian troll. Considering USAID distributes food, medicine and shelter, and helps those countries who want to have some form of democracy, unlike Russia, it is quite clear why you trolls would mention an NGO.

    After all, Russia has a long history of paranoia when it comes to groups trying to help people better themselves or understand why oppression, such as is practiced in Russia, is not how countries become strong and independent.

    How's the weather in St. Petersburg? Is Uncle Putin still paying you in rubles which decline in value each day? Has your vodka allotment been increased to keep you under control?

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  12. Re:Follow the Money by Quzak · · Score: 2

    If Putin is willing to pay then people are free to accept. I don't know about you but bribes are always welcome in my house. Those bills aren't gonna pay themselves!

    --
    Support your local school shooter, give them your firearms.
  13. Re:Summary is proving Putin right by mi · · Score: 2

    So the papers have nothing to do with Putin

    Yeah, Putin had nothing to do with it — it is perfectly common for a cellist in Russia to have $2 billion in Panama. Right...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  14. Re:So what? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    Even David Cameron is under an incredible amount of pressure. The Telegraph, or as some affectionately call it, the Torygraph, is calling him out. I think, particularly in an age when many governments are imposing austerity measures on their citizens, to have the very politicians who are invoking the necessity of austerity turning around and hiding their own income, and helping their wealthy friends hide their income, is becoming an unforgivable kind of hypocrisy. That the average family will have to pay higher taxes or receive less or a lower quality of various government services, while the men and women lecturing them on the necessity are protecting themselves from that measure is just not something a lot of people will stand for.

    As for Cameron's pleas for privacy, considering it's his government that is trying to get the Snoopers Charter passed, well, that only demonstrates just how much of a hypocrite he really is. I don't know whether he will fall over this, but between this and the EU referendum, I'm thinking Cameron's political future doesn't extend to the next UK general election, regardless of any results.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  15. Re:No argument here by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    I think that just makes you a moron. Defending very wealthy people hiding their cash and making sure the system is gamed so they can is not laudable, and it takes a complete fucking idiot to be making a relatively small annual salary to think what they're doing is some sort of stab at the heart of the Big Bad Government.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  16. Re:Follow the Money by codeAlDente · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, and zerohedge has also pointed out that this just eliminates competition for the Rothschilds.

    --
    He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.