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India's Audacious Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2 Billion People (bloomberg.com)

Saritha Rai, reporting for Bloomberg: India is trying to yank its cash-based economy into the 21st century. But how do you get 1.2 billion people, many of whom have never seen a bank or opened an account, to send digital payments to each other? The government's answer is an effort it has named the Unified Payment Interface. Debuting Monday, it's a system designed to make transferring and receiving money as easy as exchanging e-mail or text messages. The goal is to bring banking and financial services to hundreds of millions of citizens, many of them poor and disadvantaged, in one fell swoop. The network was created by India's retail banks and backed by India's central bank -- and they're confident it will work because it's built on top of an even more audacious project: India's biometrics-enabled national ID system, called Aadhaar after the Hindi word for foundation.The idea is to make mobile payments and utilization of other services between users with accounts in different banks frictionless. The Aadhaar number, or a virtual address, will serve as the single identifier. This will also allow a person to use several services of a bank without being its customer, explains Forbes India. The UPI app is in phase-I and is operational for a closed user group. The app is expected to be launched for public in the coming months.

57 comments

  1. This will be a disaster: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (grabs popcorn)

    1. Re:This will be a disaster: by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm just not sure if it'll be a "Come for the dystopian surveillance; stay to enjoy the fraud!" or the other way around...

    2. Re:This will be a disaster: by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm just not sure if it'll be a "Come for the dystopian surveillance; stay to enjoy the fraud!" or the other way around...

      The main motivation for this scheme is entitlement reform. In the past, India provided subsidized rice to the poor, and about 80% of the rice was typically stolen before it reached the intended recipients. Under this new system, the poor will have money transferred directly to their e-accounts, so they can then buy rice (or something else that they need) in local markets. So even if there is plenty of fraud, it will still be better than what it replaced. One thing that Indians have plenty of is low expectations.

    3. Re:This will be a disaster: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think So?

      Look at this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa -- It works, and in places like where this is used, a single cigarette or squeeze of toothpaste can be handled as easily as paying a taxi fare, etc. Tracking that would be like NSA vacuuming up all US phone call info -- how long will it take them to do anything with the data (Billions and trillions of records.)

    4. Re: This will be a disaster: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. In India they riot to have their status LOWERED. Granted it is to game the system put in place to help the destitute, but those are low expectations!

    5. Re:This will be a disaster: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the small cost of the government owning your entire identity and, er, well, everybody knows that the bigger the government the less corruption it sees, right? It'll be alright, they promised. Pinkie-sworn honest!

      Which philosopher was it again that argued it doesn't matter what you do, as long as your intentions are good? I think these are some very laudable intentions indeed. A little inept maybe, a whiff of misguided too, and so on, but boy are the intentions totally good.

    6. Re:This will be a disaster: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who needs a bank when Indians all work for free?

      Or so the person telling me that an H1-B can replace me if I don't tow the line says.

  2. India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What good does access to digital currency and "financial services" do for anyone but the banks?

    1. Re:India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What good does access to digital currency and "financial services" do for anyone but the banks?

      Imagine you're an Indian farmer and you take your goods to a buyer. Now you can be paid immediately and electronically, and you won't be robbed as you and your oxe and cart make your 20km journey back to your village.

      Imagine you're a woman in India doing piecemeal work. Now you can be paid on your 2G flipphone and your husband can't take your earnings and blow it on liquor.

      Imagine you're a worker working in Mumbai and your wife and family are in Delhi. How do you get your money back to them without paying huge fees? Just transfer it digitally.

    2. Re:India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, for each 5 rupee electronic payment the bank will get a 400 rupee service payment. Or monthly subscription banking service for 190 rupees for virtually unlimited amount of transactions, just like it is with the certain Nordic bank who recently got mixed up with the Panama papers. Cheap as in Hell.

    3. Re:India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Imagine you're an Indian farmer and you take your goods to a buyer. Now you can be paid immediately and electronically, and you won't be robbed as you and your oxe and cart make your 20km journey back to your village."

      The amount the banks will "rob" the villager with fees and penalties will outweigh any roadside robberies.

      "Imagine you're a woman in India doing piecemeal work. Now you can be paid on your 2G flipphone and your husband can't take your earnings and blow it on liquor. "

      Then the husband would beat the wife.

      "Imagine you're a worker working in Mumbai and your wife and family are in Delhi. How do you get your money back to them without paying huge fees? Just transfer it digitally."

      That should be an improvement in theory, but I still expect them to get screwed somehow.

    4. Re:India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 0

      The amount the banks will "rob" the villager with fees and penalties will outweigh any roadside robberies.

      Hey Anonymous Coward, in India, financial services to the poor are largely delivered through the post office.

    5. Re:India's Audacious Plan to Enslave 1.2 Billion by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      and you won't be robbed as you and your oxe and cart make your 20km journey back to your village

      It's comforting to know that you won't be captured and held hostage until you transfer the money electronically.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  3. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 1

    AKA the most important experiment on the way to the eerie cashless society.

  4. Will we see end of cash? by sasparillascott · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Quite the audacious plan, be interesting to see how it rolls out.

    Wondering if we'll see the end of cash / anonymous / private purchases in our lifetime? I don't want that, but boy are the banks & governments ready to log and track everyone together.

  5. If they've never seen a bank... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    >> But how do you get 1.2 billion people, many of whom have never seen a bank or opened an account, to send digital payments to each other?

    Where, pray tell, did these people get the "digital money" from then if they've "never seen a bank" or "opened an account."

    1. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      Presumably they pay cash to their cellphone company and then use the "minutes" they have bought as units of exchange.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    2. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      Then may I suggest an obligatory "value of not-money" cartoon:
      http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

    3. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by audi100quattro · · Score: 1

      Not so much, it's a bit more like turning every place you can recharge your phone into a bank deposit/withdrawal counter.

    4. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I enjoyed the cartoon, thanks. I suppose I see it a little like a pay it forward version of cramming.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    5. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less than a year ago they discussed a huge problem in India; How to get people to stop shitting in the streets. (I am NOT joking) maybe sanitation is more important than "digital currency"?

    6. Re:If they've never seen a bank... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      I think I saw a TED talk on that. Clean it up, install toilets and make it nice. No one wants to be the first to mess something up.

  6. How about food and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    India should come up with a way for its citizens to not need firewood to cook with first.

    1. Re: How about food and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? What's wrong with firewood? Or do you believe there's only one right way, and it happens to be your way?

    2. Re: How about food and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is Hank Hill you are talking to sir. He sells propane and propane accessories.

    3. Re:How about food and water by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You think pumping hydrocarbons out of the ground and burning them is a better method? At least with firewood, you're only participating in the short carbon cycle, and not increasing the level of greenhouse gases from a long-term view.

      There's only a few ways of cooking, because it requires the use of heat: 1. burning wood, 2. burning fossil fuel, 3. electricity, and maybe 4. concentrated solar power. I guess there's also 5. nuclear fission, but that's rather infeasible, and there's also 6. various other exothermic chemical reactions, but that again is generally far more expensive than 1-4. #3 requires a power source to generate electricity, which means either burning fossil fuel (#2), nuclear power (#5), or renewable sources (solar/wind). In third world nations, by far most electric power is generated by burning fossil fuel.

      So basically you're proposing for poor people in India to abandon burning wood (which regrows in a decade or three), and either buy fossil fuel and burn it, or buy electricity which was generated from fossil fuel. I don't see how this is in any way a better solution: it's both more polluting and probably more expensive for them.

    4. Re:How about food and water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the whole implicitly racist thing where developing nations are somehow not allowed short cuts to enabling technologies unless they've managed to fix all the things on the prejudice ticklist.

      To which I might reply: when you've sorted out clean, drinkable water for Flint, Michigan -- a town in a first world nation -- come back to your prejudice. In the meantime, let India experiment with a cashless economy and see what progress it enables.

  7. Progress is Great by phantomflanflinger · · Score: 2, Funny

    Soon Indians won't need to rely on the first world anymore: they'll be able to phone people and steal their bank account details using local-rate instead of international calls.

    --
    shin phantomflanflinger
  8. Given this is India... by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 2, Funny

    I am surprised that they did not call it Rational Unified Payment Interface.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    1. Re:Given this is India... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice! They can use these R.U.P.I.s to pay for pretty much everything!

    2. Re:Given this is India... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the motivation is rations not reaching poor. so yes.

    3. Re:Given this is India... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will once the management process of the monitoring process of the payment system development process reaches level 5 of the CMMI and publishes the UML stereotypes related to its activities and creates the meta-meta model required for model transfer for the adjunct government management processes. This leveraging of bureaucracy assets will also be required to be approached with CMMI level 5 level fortitude.

  9. Excellent by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    So, the next time the Indian people get uppity, or vote the wrong way, the payment system experiences "technical difficulties" and the wrongdoers are instantly punished. Or they can use the carrot instead of the stick and people who voted the correct way suddenly find their account awash in rupees. Either way the government becomes bigger, stronger, more powerful, and gains a reach into the day-to-day lives of its subjects. I mean, citizens. What could possibly go wrong?

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  10. Derpcoin to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's digital and widely accepted, right?

  11. I support this. by tommyjcarpenter · · Score: 2

    Clearly the optimal future is cashless, based on a competent Digital system. I emphasize competent because I don't think we are there yet. It's still a vision. But in theory, it's the future. Cash costs an abhorrent amount of cash to keep in circulation. In most countries the taxpayers have to fund this. When I lived in Ontario, removing the penny from circulation alone reported to have saved the taxpayers millions of dollars over the long run. Cash is also difficult to store/transport. Bank vaults, Armored trucks, soilders, and what not. With a competent digital system, just make sure everything is secured properly (the proper encryption, etc) and these problems disappear. This ties to the article as follows. I think the biggest barrier to a cashless system Is that too many people in the world do not use banks or the Internet. You can't just leave all the poor people stranded while the middle and upper class switches over. If India can somehow solve this problem, I'm confident much of the world can.

    1. Re:I support this. by sichbo · · Score: 1

      Lately I've been working on a monetary system. Bit different to fiat or blockchain currencies. It's using a p2p distributed hash table for data storage, encryption happens strictly "on the client" for RSA signing procedures, it includes a basic cost of living, implicit taxation, and it has more of a focus on "good standing" rather than debt. It's probably not exactly ready for prime time, but I'd be interested in yours, or anybody else's thoughts: http://pretend.money/preview My account for example is http://pretend.money/preview/#... Mostly I just wanted to see what a monetary system that is not based on "debt" might look like. Bit of fun.

    2. Re:I support this. by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

      It may be inefficient but cash is essential to anonymity and anonymity is essential to liberty. If the government can track every purchase you make they can begin to control every purchase you make.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    3. Re: I support this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If it is truly transparent the public gains more than any individual loses. Imagine seeing every penny that moves between everyone. The people with the most money have the most anonymity to lose.

    4. Re:I support this. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      A cashless world is Stalin's wet dream.

  12. Traslation by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    Debuting Monday, it's a system designed to make government surveillance of transferring and receiving money as easy as government surveillance of exchanging e-mail or text messages.

    FTFY

    1. Re:Traslation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... government surveillance of transferring and receiving money ...

      In other words, what the USA has already forced all other countries to do.

      In Asia, limited welfare (food, education, health) services means government isn't just oppressive, it is the enemy: So the citizens willfully defraud their own government. Of course, the elected people have the same attitude and control the purse strings; so corruption is endemic. Once again, government is targeting the behaviour of the multitude. For that it needs a permanent, difficult-to-fake identifier for each person. Fingerprints (and other biometrics) cannot be transferred or altered, so they match the criteria perfectly. Plus, the government doesn't have to issue them, making their use much cheaper. Yes, when these are linked to an online identity, online fraud is possible. Obviously, the government should prepare for that, otherwise it's just pushing the problem around. But as you've indicated, online banking is easier to track, so the government will be able to identify the criminals with some ease.

  13. Frictionless mobile payments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How about mass surveillance. For the vast majority of purchases I don't see what is wrong with carrying a few dollars (or rupees), compared to your economic freedom.

  14. Hope they can resist ther USofA by houghi · · Score: 1

    In Belgium transferring money can be done the same day. System is completely automated. Oh, wait, that is working days. PCs do not work during the weekend, And if you transfer money to a company, it takes 3 days.
    The reason is that the US needs to see who is paying what to whom. Well, not officially, but that is the reason. Because terrorism.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  15. Audacious! by Tighe_L · · Score: 1

    What an odd word for a news story title.

  16. Public Sanitation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They should do Public Sanitation first.

    The majority of people there are still crapping in the bushes.

    1. Re: Public Sanitation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like downtown sam francisco then?

    2. Re: Public Sanitation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the more than 500 million Indian citizens who lack such facilities.

    3. Re: Public Sanitation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like the 640 million Indian citizens who lack such basic service. Way to go, India.

    4. Re: Public Sanitation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? they are trying to reduce corruption and maybe some of this money goes into sanitation. *every* *damn* *discussion* about India is about its lack of toilets. They launched a satellite into space - what about sanitation. They was a reasonably secure UUID for each citizen - what about sanitation. Their economy is growing - what about sanitation.
      Seriously, you'd think we did not go through this. London was a shithole 300 years ago and New York as late as early 20th century. These guys have serious issues no doubt (including apparently the lack of interest in using such sanitation even if the government provides it) but every damn discussion brings up toilets. Watch the Daily Show episode with Trevor Noah about what we think of Africa. It's the same - a bunch of dimwitted condescending pricks who'd like to summarize entire countries and civilizations to one liners than meets their self righteous approval.

  17. The real reason by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    The real reason is the wet-dream of the power-hungry world wide: to track the 'little-people' financial transactions in real time. It will always be justified by the efficient and equitable application of taxation, but the real motivation is tracking the activities of the Enemies of The State (AKA, the Power Elite). But make no mistake: the One Percent will be exempt from scrutiny as they always have been.

  18. Still no toilets though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that technology is too hard to master.

  19. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    India has decided to outsource their tech support due to cost overruns.

  20. Yet in America..... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    We cant even get banks to transfer money from bank to bank without major difficulty and huge fees. and Simple shit like setting a rule of "1% of all deposits go into a separate account" are impossible here in the USA.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  21. showing an impudent lack of respect by rdelsambuco · · Score: 1

    Audacious -- perhaps, but is it also bold and world-class?

    --
    I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
  22. Tranction fees... by Macdude · · Score: 1

    Cash: No transaction fees.
    Electronic payment: Transaction Fees

    Now you know why the banks are interested in pushing electronic payments.

    Cash: Anonymous transactions
    Electronic Payment: All transactions recorded.

    Now you know why government is interested in pushing electronic payments

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
  23. I hope it's not fell! by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    The pedant in me needs to point out that the phrase "in one fell swoop" doesn't mean what the author thinks it does. "Fell" in this context means cruel, malevolent, or destructive. I really hope that's not the case here.

    Then again, it's being done by banks, so maybe that description really is right.

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."