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Photos Show The Lingering Radioactivity At Chernobyl And Fukushima (mashable.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the nuclear-legacy dept.

mdsolar quotes a report from Mashable: In areas of Russia and Japan that have been decontaminated by the government, allowing for people to move back, life has tried to continue but evidence of radiation remains. Greg McNevin, a photographer working with the environmental group Greenpeace, set out to visualize the radiation that persists in many of these areas. The resulting project juxtaposes radiation data onto long exposure photographs from the affected regions. Using a programmable LED rod that when connected to a Geiger counter (a device that measures ambient radiation) translates the analog signal into a light display, McNevin walked through long exposure photographs he was taking of affected areas, showcasing the live radiation data his counter was reading.

41 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. radiation compared to what? by cowdung · · Score: 5, Insightful

    for it to be meaningful they should show other parts of the world for comparison.. I'm sure they'd find some inhabited places with higher levels of natural radiation.

    1. Re:radiation compared to what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This.

      I was expecting something like a map, but turns out it's just a photographer being cute and pretending it means something. N'mind there's a note "it's only art"; that's not how it's gonna be taken and he knows it. And really, this is just too sensitive to cherry picking for the prettiest pictures with the most LEDs lighting up.

    2. Re:radiation compared to what? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not all radiation is the same. The stuff that can accumulate inside your body and slowly irradiate your organs for decades is much more dangerous than external radiation that can't penetrate the skin.

      Besides, the issue of "hot spots", that is areas that have not been fully decontaminated, is only one of many problems preventing people returning to Fukushima.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:radiation compared to what? by coastwalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The artist is welcome to do my basement, my house is built on granite and radon gas is a recognized problem in this area. The photos are interesting and have artistic merit, Greenpeace however are just behaving like cancer. I support environmental awareness and have done since the 70's but I regard Greenpeace as an enemy of the environment because of their moronic publicity.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    4. Re:radiation compared to what? by Harlequin80 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Here is something actually useful. http://ramap.jmc.or.jp/map/eng...

      It is a map of the area surrounding fukushima with radiation measurements in microsieverts

    5. Re:radiation compared to what? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      In my area there is some mildly radioactive sand that was being mined for titanium (rutile + ilmenite). The mining company for a bit of PR donated a lot of the unwanted sand to schools for sandpits. Unfortunately since the sand was sorted by weight the radioactive stuff was concentrated and ended up being a less than trivial proportion of the sand sent to schools - whoops!

    6. Re:radiation compared to what? by michelcolman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The pictures are indeed quite deceiving.

      "A school in Starye Bobovichi, Bryansk Oblast, Russia.", oh my, look at that white trail of radioactivity going up the stairs of that school!

      Then you read the explanation: the bars are just where the guy passed with the detector, and white means "background radiation". That means that there's absolutely no extra radiation at all. But that's not what it looks like when uninformed people see the picture.

      Then orange and red mean a "higher radiation dose". How much higher? Twice the background level? Three times? Ten times? That's still way less than you get when living in the mountains or visiting a Brazilian beach.

      If they would make the same kind of pictures in other places, they would look the same or a lot worse while no nuclear incident has ever happened anywhere near them, and local people are perfectly healthy.

      The only picture that worries me, is the one of the nursery school in Soramame Fukushima City. Radiation levels there are so low there, I wonder if those children are getting enough bananas.

    7. Re:radiation compared to what? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      "hot spots", that is areas that have not been fully decontaminated,

      Exepecting full decontamination is not useful either. I take full decontamination to mean nothing measurable above the background level. The problem with that of course is that instruments for detecting radioactivity are exquisitely sensitive. Seawater contamination of 1Bq/cubic meter (1 disintegration per second per cubic meter) are measurable which is far, far below the background leve. And with a gamma ray spectrometer, you can even tell which isotopes are disintegrating in some cases.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    8. Re:radiation compared to what? by michelcolman · · Score: 5, Informative

      When looking at that map, bear in mind that the scary red threshold, 19 microsieverts per hour, corresponds to the natural radiation level of Guarapari’s beach, a popular Brazilian tourist attraction.

      And background levels in Ramsar, Iran, are even higher: 250 mSv per year, which is 28.5 microsieverts per hour. Yet studies showed that people living there had a slightly lower rate of lung cancer.

      http://webecoist.momtastic.com...

    9. Re:radiation compared to what? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I take full decontamination to mean nothing measurable above the background level.

      Then you have a different definition to the Japanese government and the residents of Fukushima. They consider decontamination to be fully complete when the danger is reduced to a level safe for human habitation. Unfortunately we are a long way from there, because while the ambient radiation levels are acceptably low there are still many areas with dangerous levels of contamination.

      The main issue is that much of what was release from Fukushima Daiichi is now in the environment, in the soil and in plants and animals. If it gets inside humans it can damage internal organs that are normally protected from radiation by skin and flesh.

      This sort of contamination is hard to detect and hard to clean up. You can't just wonder around with a dosimeter, you need to do a careful inspection and dig up the surface soil. Digging is inevitable, as construction takes place, animals forage, children play, people tend their gardens etc. The government was hoping that removing the top layer of soil would mostly fix the problem, but it hasn't. Material from un-decontaminated areas keeps migrating back, or they miss some spots and have to return multiple times.

      Even once that is complete, it doesn't do anything to address over five years of decay, lack of repairs to the initial earthquake damage and the fact that many key parts of the community no longer exist or have moved away permanently.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:radiation compared to what? by michelcolman · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not a photographic art series. It's a piece of public deception to further Greenpeace's agenda. They try to silence critics by adding the disclaimer "it's just art, it doesn't mean anything" but meanwhile they have reinforced the image of "nuclear power is dangerous" in the minds of the majority of people who don't even bother to read what the lines mean and who don't know that it's perfectly normal for granite stone to emit higher radiation levels.

      Typical of Greenpeace. Scare tactics with total disregard of the facts, and hiding behind some lame excuse like "it's just art, it doesn't mean anything".

      Meanwhile you can expect news networks to pick this up and show the pictures while saying how all this radiation is threatening the health of those poor school children.

    11. Re:radiation compared to what? by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The artist is welcome to do my basement, my house is built on granite and radon gas is a recognized problem in this area.

      They're welcome to do Ontario too. My house is built on limestone and radon is a recognized problem here as well, some parts of Southern Ontario have higher radon levels then Michigan where the homes are built directly on granite and require venting. The problem of course, is that radon detection isn't a requirement here, even though it's one of the leading causes of lung cancer in Canada for non-smokers. But I can go out on a 10 minute walk and find entire neighborhoods in my city where radon venting is done, and one area where the levels are so high that building houses was fully scrapped back in the 1970's and was considered a threat to human health. The area is was built over as a park in the 1990's, but they had to install a mitigation system to reduce the chance that people would develop lung cancer even being in the open air.

      The photos are interesting and have artistic merit, Greenpeace however are just behaving like cancer. I support environmental awareness and have done since the 70's but I regard Greenpeace as an enemy of the environment because of their moronic publicity.

      Agreed, artistic merit but that's about it. Greenpeace has long since become a hyper-partisan political group, and they'll happily whine about nuclear power, or GMO foods while people die from lack of refrigerated medicines, foods, or simply starving to death. A good reminder is that Greenpeace is against drought resistant corn(for Africa), and vitamin A-enhanced rice(for Africa and Asia), despite millions of people either dying due to a lack of food or having increased serious illnesses risk or other serious health problems(like childhood blindness which is easily treatable) due to a lack of proper nutrition.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    12. Re:radiation compared to what? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      If everything _could_ be decontaminated what other problem is there?

      Firstly, due to the evacuation the area was not repaired after the earthquake, and has not been maintained for over five years now. There is a lot of damage, and paying for fixing it is now complicated by the fact that TEPCO is partially liable and legal time limits for insurance claims have run out. This has now moved to the lawsuit stage.

      Actually fixing the damage is going to take much longer now. Some areas have huge amounts of contaminated waste that needs to be disposed of, and discussions about where to put it are still on-going. In other areas nature has been left unmanaged. Animals need to be culled, plants removed and cut back, and damage done by roots fixed. Many buildings now need to be simply pulled down and replaced.

      Then you get to personal possessions. Most of them need to be discarded (contamination) and replaced. Lots of insurance claim wrangling. People can't go back until that is at least substantially completed, because they need basic things like home appliances and furniture. Of course, all utilities need fixing, e.g. the water network has decayed and started severely leaking in places with full restoration estimated at several years.

      Services need to be replaced. Hospitals and schools refurbished. New staff need to be found and hired because many of them have moved away. New shops need to be brought it. Existing businesses have suffered massive losses, with all their stock being lost and employees simply moving away. Keep in mind it has already been five years, so people who could get work elsewhere often have, and most of the people returning will be elderly and retired, and thus in need of care and reliant of local services.

      It isn't clear if those communities will ever fully recover now, and if they do it will take decades.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:radiation compared to what? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bingo. It doesn't have to be scientifically accurate or in any way meaningful, it just has to be bounced around on social media with a scary caption to the point where the FUD moves faster than the facts. Standard Greenpeace MO. Notice how they opted to use images of schools and nurseries too, gotta work in that nice 'think of the children!' bonus.

    14. Re:radiation compared to what? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its even worse than that. They claim they can distinguish between background and Chernobyl radiation, but that is impossible to do with a radiation detector. What they erroneously assume is that background radiation is steady, and that all that changes while you walk around are due to Chernobyl. This demonstrates the ignorance of the author, because background radiation varies as you move around, and probably accounts for all of the measured radiation they show.

      Evidence of their ignorance is even further shown in the schoolhouse, where they assume there is no background radiation.

      Basically, they just arbitrarily decided what to call Chernobyl radiation. They have no clue.

    15. Re:radiation compared to what? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      As the creator stated in the story. It was attended as art not hard science to push decisions.

      The story is fiction. There is no way to distinguish between background and Chernobyl radiation with a radiation detector, so the line was just arbitrarily made up. Assuming all variances are due to Chernobyl radiation is the obvious sign of ignorance. Background radiation varies a lot as you move around. And, with no actual radiation measurements numbers shown, it can't be used for anything policy related.

      It appears the idiot even assumed there is no background radiation indoors.

    16. Re:radiation compared to what? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      Its not art, or at least not without a political purpose, as it intentionally chose Fukushima and Chernobyl, and intentionally (but incorrectly due to ignorance) tried to blame some of the radiation on those events. If it were just art, then it would not try to show a difference between background either. If it were art, there would be no reason to use Chernobyl or Fukushima areas.

    17. Re:radiation compared to what? by rwise2112 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its even worse than that. They claim they can distinguish between background and Chernobyl radiation, but that is impossible to do with a radiation detector. What they erroneously assume is that background radiation is steady, and that all that changes while you walk around are due to Chernobyl. This demonstrates the ignorance of the author, because background radiation varies as you move around, and probably accounts for all of the measured radiation they show. Evidence of their ignorance is even further shown in the schoolhouse, where they assume there is no background radiation. Basically, they just arbitrarily decided what to call Chernobyl radiation. They have no clue.

      Actually you can distinguish natural and man made isotopes with a gamma-ray spectrometer. There are various energy peaks associates with each radioelement that can be easily identified. For instance Cs-137 is what is usually measured to map areas of contamination from things like Chernobyl. You are right about the background radiation varying everywhere, and with no scale these 'charts' are useless.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    18. Re:radiation compared to what? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In any article of this type, you can stop reading at "Greenpeace."

    19. Re:radiation compared to what? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are correct, there are chemical testing methods and others to define the source, but as I said it can not be done with radiation detectors/Geiger counters as were used. I didn't mention the fact that background radiation actually varies while staying in one spot.

    20. Re:radiation compared to what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Chernobyl is not in Russia. It is in Ukraine. It is closer to Belarus than to Russia. To travel from Chernobyl to Bryansk, you would drive about 500km cutting across Belarus. In contrast, Kiev is less than 150km from Chernobyl, directly down river. Why not photograph a school there? It is hard for me to believe that Bryansk is a scarier place for radiation than Kiev.

    21. Re:radiation compared to what? by jae471 · · Score: 2

      1. Bryansk is both an Oblast and a city. The Oblast is quite large. The photographs identify the town as Starye Bobovichi, in the Bryansk Oblast.
      2. Fallout/contamination patterns are not linear. They are dependent on the prevailing winds.

  2. Art by Elledan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree with the only knowledgeable person in that 'article' that this is just a type of art, with no scientific or social usefulness. Without the data being recorded (was the sensor calibrated?) known, realising how useless official 'safe limits' for radiation are (often lower than naturally occurring background radiation), and the Linear Non-Threshold (LNT) model having been discredited decades ago, one can at most say that they put it together in a pretty fashion.

    But since we're talking about Greenpeace here, the PR mouthpiece for both the fossil fuel and solar/wind industries, I'm not shocked at this.

    --
    Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
    1. Re:Art by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not supposed to be a scientific study, there are plenty of those available. It's to draw attention to the problem, since many people seem to either be in denial about it or just hoping it goes away. There is a reason why people don't return to Fukushima, and this is an interesting and eye-catching way of illustrating it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Art by michelcolman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's to draw attention to the problem, since many people seem to either be in denial about it or just hoping it goes away.

      What problem? The problem of abnormally low radiation levels in nursery schools near Fukushima? Because that's what that picture is actually showing: lower than background level.

      If they took the same kind of pictures in the Alps, they would probably be all red.

    3. Re:Art by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem it illustrates is the utter ignorance of Greenpeace and those that push this crap around like it has some merit. Think how many people will look at this and believe the creator actually could distinguish between background and non-background radiation. Or that the levels shown need be even remotely concerning.

    4. Re:Art by chihowa · · Score: 2

      As a biochemist, LNT doesn't really make much sense when applied to a biological system. It seems odd that there wouldn't be any threshold when we know that there are biological mechanisms for repairing radiation induced damage. Also, a linear response is at odds with the saturation of these mechanisms which usually manifests as a sigmoidal dose-response and with normal immunological recognition and destruction of cancerous cells.

      LNT is used because it is very conservative and a better model hasn't been soundly demonstrated yet. From a public policy standpoint, that is perfectly reasonable. Don't mistake policy for scientific proof, though.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  3. Chernobyl is not in Russia by fraxinus-tree · · Score: 4, Informative

    update your fears

    1. Re:Chernobyl is not in Russia by lastman71 · · Score: 2

      Go and tell that to Putin.

    2. Re:Chernobyl is not in Russia by fraxinus-tree · · Score: 2

      Well, I RTFA. The photos are from Russia, made in an affected village near Ukraine and 180km downwind (at the moment of disaster) from Chernobyl. As for the rest, Russia still occupies between 1% and 2% of Ukrainian territory (which were the most economically active, indeed), but all the war happens at the opposite to Chernobyl end of Ukraine.

  4. I'm pretty sure I clicked on "Don't show this" by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Funny

    I am quite sick of mdsolar's crap. How does this shill get all his diarrhaea on Slashdot's front page?

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:I'm pretty sure I clicked on "Don't show this" by lastman71 · · Score: 2

      Probably you are one of the reasons of why this article posted on Slashdot. More people comments on the article, more ads are seen.

      And people complaining about shit this, shit that, means more comments, becouse angry people is more complelled in write comments. The math is simple.

    2. Re:I'm pretty sure I clicked on "Don't show this" by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

      mdsolar has proven that credibility and truth are not important to him simply by reading the stuff he promotes. It gives a bad name to those that work in the solar industry.

    3. Re:I'm pretty sure I clicked on "Don't show this" by 6Yankee · · Score: 2

      Yeah, typical stupid biased crap. What I'd like to see is some photos showing all that SOLAR radiation... Oh, wait...

  5. Maximum emotional impact by Jamlad · · Score: 2

    Not that anybody would expect Greenpeace not to be biased in a particular way but the best way to promote a personal agenda is to combine fear with emotional impact. Take peoples' own irrational fear of radiation, a modern day boogyman owing to ignorance, throw some semi-science at it, then slap on some implicit 'what about the children?' and voila. 5/11 photographs in that "article" are of schools/nurseries, and another three are homes/gardens. It's the same way anti-bacterial products advertise; by implying a danger to your family *in your very own home*. What are the actual radiation levels compared to the global background? How do they compare to a routine long-commute flight? Or an x-ray? We must have excellent survival rates and adjusted life expectancy data from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, how do they compare? They were directly nuked after all.

  6. Greenpeace proven Liars by nukenerd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why take any notice of these Geenpeace jerks? They have lied in the past and when caught out claim that it is justified, in order to draw attention to an issue (what they consider an issue anyway).

    1. Re:Greenpeace proven Liars by Goaway · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am extremely outraged about things done by big businesses and governments.

      But I also so dearly, dearly wish I could wholeheartedly support Greenpeace without being a hypocrite. But I can't. I really want to, but I can't.

      They lie and they deceive, and they oppose things that are objectively speaking both good for the environment, and absolutely necessary in order to prevent catastrophe.

      I just really, really wish they got their act together. Or that somebody better came along to take up the cause.

  7. We need a baseline by blindseer · · Score: 2

    While this is an interesting experiment we'd need to see some sort of baseline to place any meaning on this. I propose walking around some nuclear power plants that didn't have a reactor core breach. I have a few more suggestions, like walking around a coal fired power plant, in a few of those big old granite buildings that governments like to construct for people to gather, some rocky beaches, and just some random homes.

    I recall reading that the radiation levels in New York's Grand Central Terminal exceeds that considered acceptable by the Nuclear Regulatory Committee for a nuclear power plant. With regulations like that it's no wonder the nuclear power industry is in such a sad state today.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  8. Three Mile Island and natural radiation by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    After the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, people were pointing out radiation found all over the state. The problem was, they had no baseline. The radiation was naturally occurring and had been there all along. At the nearby Limerick power plant, they installed monitors on the entrances to make sure workers were not getting exposed at work and taking radioactive dust home with them. One worker keep setting the sensors off, when he came to work. Here his house had a serious radon problem in the basement. This is what brought the problem of radon in homes to national attention. This shows the problem with detecting and cleaning accident contamination. How do you know you have taken the area back to the natural level before the accident, when it has been radioactive all along?

  9. Schrodinger's cats fight! by AchilleTalon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It seems to me like a Schrodinger's cats fight. You are both right and wrong at the same time.

    You just do not take into account there is no such thing like two types of radiation: internal vs external. These are only the exposure to the actually four types of radiations: high-energy photons (UV, X-rays and gamma-rays), beta radiation (electrons in fact), alpha radiation (helium nucleus or any other atom fragments) and neutrons. Some of these are actually blocked by the skin and a very thin layer of it in fact and others are not.

    But skin cancer is due to exposition to high-energy photons which are penetrating (think about why we use X-rays in first place).

    However, it is true, if the radioactive isotopes are ingested, they are much more likely to reach, damage critical organs and cause death. It doesn't mean exposition to radiation without ingesting it is harmless.

    So, in conclusion, both arguments are strictly wrong. Opening the box shows us both cats are dead.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
    1. Re:Schrodinger's cats fight! by mdsolar · · Score: 2

      You missed C14 recoil in dna.