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40% of Silicon Valley's Profits (But Not Sales) Came from Apple (siliconvalley.com)

An anonymous reader writes:The San Jose Mercury News reports that last year 40% of Silicon Valley's profits came from one company -- Apple. "The iPhone maker accounted for 28 percent of the Bay Area tech industry's $833 billion in 2015 sales," while "Its profits were a jaw-dropping 40 percent of the region's $133 billion total." Meanwhile, Google's parent company Alphabet racked up $75 billion in sales, representing nearly 57% of the total for all Silicon Valley internet companies, followed by eBay and PayPal.

But while sales grew, internet-company profits fell by 29% as more companies focused on growth. "Profits are nice, sure, but becoming profitable isn't the top priority around here, particularly for younger firms," wrote the newspaper, noting that investors are paying 18 times Facebook's annual sales for its stock. In fact, 29% of Silicon Valley's top companies didn't have sales growth in 2015 (an increase from 17% the previous year), and five of the top 10 companies saw a drop in sales in 2015 (including Intel). "The numbers are telling the story," one analyst tells the newspaper. "There is growth, but it is slowing."

The Mercury News adds that "The question for those with the biggest sales drops is how much time do they have left if the trend continues..."

24 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. The problem with America. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most of the profits are parked overseas, and the ones that are here aren't taxed very much.
    Most of the work is done by Chinese slave labor and so has no contribution to the US economy.
    I submit that the United States would be better off if Apple simply did not exist. (Or at least, not any worse.)

    1. Re:The problem with America. by gtall · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yep, you are right. The U.S. should cede control of the world to those nice Russians and Chinese. They'll have your best interests at heart. While we're at it, let's promote the welfare of Islamists everywhere, they really, really like the West.

    2. Re:The problem with America. by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the work is done by Chinese slave labor and so has no contribution to the US economy.

      But most of the profits go to the US.

    3. Re:The problem with America. by Archtech · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep, you are right. The U.S. should cede control of the world to those nice Russians and Chinese. They'll have your best interests at heart.

      I am pleased (and rather amused) to note that you begin, even if unintentionally, by admitting that the USA has indeed seized control of the world. Next you allege, without the slightest shred of supporting evidence, that if the USA relinquished control of the world, the Russians and Chinese would seize it. But when did they ever do anything like that before? (Disclaimer: I am a historian, so I tend to think about the historical record when I see such allegations).

      Perhaps you will talk about the Warsaw Pact, the Iron Curtain, the "Domino Theory", the Chinese annexation of Tibet, and so on. Well, the Iron Curtain and the Warsaw Pact arose after a European nation (Germany), with what the Soviets believed to be support from the USA and Britain, launched a war of extermination against all Slavs in 1941. That attack was repelled, with the deaths of one in seven of the people of the USSR - men, women and children. (The equivalent number of deaths for the USA today would be about 45 million - that is about 15,000 times as many as those who died on 9/11). Reasoning, logically enough, that the German attack had nearly succeeded - German soldiers actually reached the Moscow tramlines before winter and fresh Soviet armies stabilized the front - the Soviet leaders decided to push the "starting line" for any future war of extermination by the West back as far as they could. That was the Iron Curtain. Any nation that has lost one-seventh of its entire population to a vicious attack will be qualified to argue whether this strategy was justified. Otherwise, not so much.

      The "Domino Theory" was the ridiculous thesis that, if "the communists" managed to take over any one nation, it would be followed by all the surrounding nations. Eventually the USA would stand alone as the last place where billionaires could feast while the poor starved in gutters. To avert this horrible threat, the billionaires decreed that all "communist takeovers" must be fought to the last local soldier. This was the story in Vietnam. After a horrible war that killed over 3 million people, most of them innocent of any wrongdoing, American forces were driven from Vietnam in headlong, ignominious defeat. How many surrounding nations "went communist" as a result? Not a single one. (Although a hideous tyranny was set up in Cambodia as a direct result of the US intervention).

      While the USSR existed, it was at least possible to argue that it had an ideology that it might try to spread by force. Since 1991, of course, the USSR has not existed. The USSR, and then Russia, agreed with no argument at all to give up control of East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and even Belarus and Ukraine (which had been integral parts of Russia for much longer than the USA has existed). Still, Russia has a land area twice that of the USA, China or Canada - much of which is under-utilized or even completely unused. Its population is quite small for such a vast territory, so the last thing it needs is more territory. All Russia wants is to be left alone to develop quietly in peace.

      China is just as peacefully inclined, although it went through a near-death experience every bit as bad as the Soviet one, when it was invaded by Japan in 1937-45. Unlike Russia, it did not have the possibility of "pushing back the starting line", but it does have every intention of keeping its borders intact and preventing any foreign invasion or interference.

      The leaders of China and Russia have repeatedly explained, in public and with a wealth of detail, that they prefer a multi-polar world in which different peoples, nations, religions, cultures and economic systems coexist peacefully and interact willingly through trade and other forms of exchange. They do not seek to take over other people's countries and run them exclusively for their own benefi

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    4. Re:The problem with America. by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your knowledge of history is short. The entire middle east was carved up into pieces by the Brits and the French forcing unlike people together. This was always a ticking time bomb. The US involvement didn't help but pretending all of the middle east's problems are strictly because of US involvement belies a lack of knowledge of the region and its history.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    5. Re: The problem with America. by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just because one side happens to lose a lot of people during war (your 1 in 7 number) doesn't mean the intent of the war was actually to kill everyone.

      "After the invasion of the Soviet Union, Hitler expressed his future plans for the Slavs:

              "'As for the ridiculous hundred million Slavs, we will mould the best of them as we see fit, and we will isolate the rest of them in their own pig-styes; and anyone who talks about cherishing the local inhabitants and civilising them, goes straight off into a concentration camp![62]'"

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    6. Re:The problem with America. by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, the Iron Curtain and the Warsaw Pact arose after a European nation (Germany), with what the Soviets believed to be support from the USA and Britain, launched a war of extermination against all Slavs in 1941.

      Considering the Germans were the US and UK's sworn enemy in WWII the Russians would have to be fucking idiots to believe that by the time each nation entered the war.

      Eventually the USA would stand alone as the last place where billionaires could feast while the poor starved in gutters. To avert this horrible threat, the billionaires decreed that all "communist takeovers" must be fought to the last local soldier.

      Wow. Just wow. You have to be fucking kidding me. Now I know you're either a troll or just fucking clueless. You're honestly arguing that both Communist Russia was a better system than the Capitalist US during the 20th century and the US is the only place where billionaires feast and the poor starve? That is just blatant ignorance. I heard it's great being a migrant worker in Qatar. Communist North Korea sounds great too. Maybe you should move there. It's a great system and no one starves.

      The USSR, and then Russia, agreed with no argument at all to give up control of East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and even Belarus and Ukraine

      Places they took by FORCE. Places that had different cultures and languages. I had ancestors that left Poland because they didn't want to be a part of Communist Russia. Many left those countries for the same reason. You are whitewashing Russian history.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    7. Re:The problem with America. by Archtech · · Score: 2

      Considering the Germans were the US and UK's sworn enemy in WWII the Russians would have to be fucking idiots to believe that by the time each nation entered the war.

      Like many people who are very sure they are right, you don't seem to have all the facts. Are you aware that, at the time when the German invasion of the USSR was launched, the USA was neutral? (It stayed neutral for the first 27 months of the war, and only became a combatant as a result of the Pearl Harbor attack, which even it could hardly ignore). Or that very high-ranking American leaders had strong sympathies with the Nazi movement? In 1940 Joseph Kennedy, the future President's father, was already warning FDR (from his official post as US Ambassador to Britain) that the Germans were sure to win, and that the US government should drop the British as a lost cause and make overtures to Berlin. Prescott Bush, the father of future President George H.W. Bush, was hand in glove with the Nazi leadership, as were John Foster Dulles and his brother Allen. And IBM, as is well known, went on selling equipment and technical services to Nazi Germany long after the invasion of the USSR. See (among many other sources) http://www.washingtonsblog.com... for a recent summary.

      Wow. Just wow. You have to be fucking kidding me. Now I know you're either a troll or just fucking clueless. You're honestly arguing that both Communist Russia was a better system than the Capitalist US during the 20th century and the US is the only place where billionaires feast and the poor starve? That is just blatant ignorance. I heard it's great being a migrant worker in Qatar. Communist North Korea sounds great too. Maybe you should move there. It's a great system and no one starves.

      You obviously didn't read what I wrote - you have reacted violently to something that you seem to imagine I implied. But I didn't. I was summing up the fears that led to the US government being pushed into disastrous and counter-productive wars that killed millions of people to no purpose. If you look back at what I wrote, you will see that I did not assert that "Communist Russia was a better system than the Capitalist US during the 20th century" or that "the US is the only place where billionaires feast and the poor starve". (Although I note that you don't deny that billionaires do feast, and the poor do starve, in the USA - the home of the brave and the land of the free (to starve)). If you take the time and trouble to study the historical documents that reveal the beliefs and fears of senior US government officials, bankers, businessmen, and intelligence officials, you will see the clear evidence that the very rich were scared rigid of "communism", which they thought would lead to them being deprived of some of their wealth. Whereas they weren't scared of Nazism and fascism, as they thought they could control them.

      The USSR, and then Russia, agreed with no argument at all to give up control of East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, and even Belarus and Ukraine

      Places they took by FORCE. Places that had different cultures and languages. I had ancestors that left Poland because they didn't want to be a part of Communist Russia. Many left those countries for the same reason. You are whitewashing Russian history.

      Places they took by force - from the Nazi occupying forces in 1944-45. Places where many very unpleasant people were very eager, during the German occupation, to help the Nazis get rid of Jews, gypsies, Slavs, and other people the Nazis - and their helpers - despised and hated. I can well understand that your ancestors left Poland because they didn't want to be ruled by the Soviets - but would they have preferred the Nazis, which was the main alternative? Didn't they feel any gratitude to the Soviets

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    8. Re:The problem with America. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Apple is paying an even more disproportionate amount of silicon valley's taxes.

      Apple pays more in collected sales tax than any other Silicon Valley company because of their retail stores. Meanwhile, corporate profits in the U.S. are funneled through a Nevada corporation and world-wide profits through an Irish subsidiary.

  2. It's even more pronounced in smartphones ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    1. Re:It's even more pronounced in smartphones ... by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      1) Why does that chart show Apple at 92% and Samsung at 14% of all global smartphone profits?

      2) It contradicts the common belief that Apple hardware is better. The 4Q 2014 sales figures pegged Apple's smartphone profit at $18.8 billion, while iPhone sales were 74.5 million. $18.8b / 74.5m = a staggering $252 profit per phone. For anyone who denies an Apple tax exists, there it is right there.

      In other words, your $650 iPhone isn't a $650 phone. It's a $400 phone that Apple is selling to you for $650. Meanwhile the other smartphone manufacturers operate with a 2%-5% margin (typical for the computer industry). So when they sell you a $650 smartphone, you're getting $625 worth of hardware. You could argue Apple designs their stuff better so is able to get the same performance out of less money. But the only part they design is the SoC. They buy all the other parts - screen, battery, camera, memory, etc. - from the same suppliers as everyone else.

    2. Re:It's even more pronounced in smartphones ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because the other vendors are losing money and thus have negative percentages of the profit share. Adding up all the lossmakers gives -6%; Apple + Samsung together are at 106%.

    3. Re:It's even more pronounced in smartphones ... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In other words, your $650 iPhone isn't a $650 phone. It's a $400 phone that Apple is selling to you for $650

      Not necessarily true. The Apple figure likely also includes Apple's 30% cut on all apps that are sold over the lifetime of the device. In contrast, when Samsung sells a phone, they get the sale price of the phone. That's also the reason that Apple devices keep getting updates for longer. If a new app doesn't work on an old iPhone, then Apple potentially loses revenue from not making a sale of that app. If a new app doesn't work on an old Samsung phone, then Samsung doesn't lose any revenue and might gain revenue from having the user buy a new Samsung phone.

      It's also worth noting that just because Apple can build an iPhone for $400 doesn't mean that anyone else can. Having a huge cash reserve means that Apple often enters into deals with companies where they build the factory for a key part (flash chips, screens) and then get huge discounts on the parts for the first couple of years. They're effectively taking the risk in exchange for lower prices, but there isn't actually much risk because they're going to buy all of the output anyway. For a while, iPod Shuffles were the cheapest way of getting USB flash drives because Apple charged about the same for them as anyone else could buy the flash chips wholesale.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. That's the sound of the bubble bursting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In fact, 29% of Silicon Valley's top companies didn't have sales growth in 2015 (an increase from 17% the previous year), and five of the top 10 companies saw a drop in sales in 2015 (including Intel). "The numbers are telling the story," one analyst tells the newspaper. "There is growth, but it is slowing."

    Finally, we're hearing the start of the so-called "Web 2.0" bubble bursting. And you know what? This is probably the best thing that could happen to society at large.

    What has the "Web 2.0" bubble brought us? Not much of value!

    Computers today aren't that much different than computers of a decade ago, in terms of hardware and software. Even smart phones really aren't all that different from the PalmPilots we used in the late 1990s. We've seen little innovation, really. In fact, we've actually seen a lot of regression. So much software, from Linux distributions (thanks to systemd, PulseAudio and NetworkManager), desktop environments (GNOME 3, Windows 8 and 10), web browsers (Firefox, Chrome) are worse than what we had before this bubble started. We even saw regression when it comes to programming languages, with absolutely terrible languages like JavaScript and Ruby becoming widely used, and debacles like Rust created.

    Where we have seen innovation, it has not been positive. For example, advertising has become so much more pervasive and invasive. Along with this has been far more pervasive and invasive data collection. This is culminating with the rise of the "Internet of Things", which is basically all about giving Internet access to every single device in one's home so that advertisers can collect far more personal and private information about consumers than the advertisers could hope to do before.

    Social media has been awful to us. It's pretty much just an extension of advertising, except it isn't limited to commercial entities. We've seen it used for nefarious political means, including but not limited to forcing the flawed concept of "social justice" (which in reality involves bias, racism, intolerance, injustice and bullying) upon our societies.

    Luckily, we're now coming to the end of this bubble. We are beginning to hear it pop. Let's hope that the bursting is swift, because that's exactly what our society needs at this point.

    1. Re:That's the sound of the bubble bursting. by Junta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      smart phones really aren't all that different from the PalmPilots we used in the late 1990s

      Well, aside from the full color displays, orders of magnitude more storage, memory, speed, resolution, full fledged multi-tasking operating systems with web browsers that can render sites like desktops, weighing less, lasting a lot longer on a charge, actually having internet connectivity, and some other stuff. But other than that, yeah, not that different...

      we've actually seen a lot of regression

      Whatever the opinion of those things may be, I don't think 'regression' is the right word. Regression would suggest things collapsed and went back the way they were (e.g. people gave up on the concept of 'DE', Gnome devolved into a barely related set of applications, that sort of thing.

      desktop environments

      I'll agree that Gnome has gone off the reservation without any sign of being out there, and I'm not a fan of Unity or Win8, but Win10 is actually a decent step up in functionality (there are problems around their release management and privacy), KDE has gotten their act back together, and all the other DEs have been true to their mission throughout.

      We even saw regression when it comes to programming languages

      Again, not so much a regression as it is, if anything, a weird direction. I'd say while Ruby got a whole lot of attention and loudness, I think in practice it really didn't get as pervasive as the talk about ruby got, and even that has pretty well died down. NodeJS does mean JS has surprisingly seen some use beyond the browser, but in practice I don't think that has staying power. Inside the browser, Javascript is better now than it was in the 90s by a long shot, and those still so inclined may use 90s sensibilities in their site design (incidentally, a lot of Chinese websites I've seen stylistically do remind me of the old geocities/angelfire days).

      Internet of Things

      I think that's all in the name, or rather the lack of direction indicated in the name. It's a lot of companies wishing to manufacture a market from nothing, but without a good specific vision of what might work, so they shotgun crazy ideas that no one asked for nor really want.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  4. We are overtaxed by bretts · · Score: 2

    People thrive when government does little, as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington told us. When government handles roads and military defense, society thrives; when government bleeds people by taxation and regulation, life becomes frustrating and boring like in the Soviet Union, although not quite as bad yet. With our technology, we should be working four hours a day and spending the rest on meaningful activities (inb4 the usual bragging about "meaningful jobs": you're just tools). Instead, we work more than ever. As an antiwork conservative, I cannot expect much support from the rest on the Right side, but a few are starting to wake up. Real life is not your career, your car, your house or your shopping list. Real life is out there, and it is not what humans expect at first.

    1. Re:We are overtaxed by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      People thrive when government does little, as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington told us.

      If they did, they were idiots.

      When government handles roads and military defense, society thrives; when government bleeds people by taxation and regulation

      How the hell do you imagine the government handles roads and military defence other than by taxation and regulation?

  5. Re:50% from tax dodges TANSTAAFL by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Should I want to hire someone at a PO box in some lax country to assign my income around - it'd be legal for me too.

    Actually, Apple's PO box is in Nevada to avoid paying corporate taxes in California and 20 states.

    Yet, with a handful of employees in a small office here in Reno, Apple has done something central to its corporate strategy: it has avoided millions of dollars in taxes in California and 20 other states. Apple's headquarters are in Cupertino, Calif. By putting an office in Reno, just 200 miles away, to collect and invest the company's profits, Apple sidesteps state income taxes on some of those gains. California's corporate tax rate is 8.84 percent. Nevada's? Zero.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strategy-aims-at-low-tax-states-and-nations.html

  6. Re:Let's call taxation as contribution by Xabraxas · · Score: 4, Informative

    No offense but I don't think you know how taxation works. You can't just say well i'm in the 33% tax bracket federally and 10% locally so add those together and that's 43%. Throw in some Medicare and Social Security and that should be about 50% right? Wrong. First you're not paying an effective tax rate of 33% or 10% either because tax rates are only effective on income over the threshold. So say you make $189,301, the minimum amount for the 33% tax bracket, you will pay an effective rate of something like 22%. Just quickly looking at a tax calculator online it looks like California would be a little less than 8% effective rate. So that puts you at 30% without Medicare and Social Security. From the calculator that is about another 5%. So without ANY deductions for anything your effective rate would be about 35%. Considering the wealth of deductions available and your salary it shouldn't be hard to find an accountant that can probably get you under 30% or lower.

    --
    Time makes more converts than reason
  7. Re:This is why America needs President Trump. by Xabraxas · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tell me which of Trump's proposal's are good and we can debate that. I have no faith someone can have a coherent proposal about something they know nothing about and it has been demonstrated time and again in interviews that he doesn't know anything about the economy, foreign policy, or even math for that matter. Just look at his claim that he will ELIMINATE the debt in 8 years. Laughable. The guy is a fucking joke.

    --
    Time makes more converts than reason
  8. Re:This is why America needs President Trump. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We typically see negative knee-jerk reactions here when the idea of President Trump is brought up, but it turns out that President Trump has exactly what the United States of America needs in a leader today.

    Charles Koch is on record that Hillary Clinton might be preferable than any of the Republican candidates for president.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/charles-koch-hillary-clinton-republican-white-house-222349

  9. Re:50% from tax dodges TANSTAAFL by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The point is, the normal taxpayer can't afford them - it's not gain at the margin for the taxes a little guy saves, but is for the big guys.

    The little guy can do a variation of this. For example, start a Nevada corporation and open a corporate brokerage account (day trade or load up dividend-paying stocks) or own rental properties. Once the corporation makes a significant amount of money each year, you can draw a salary and open a qualified retirement to put away $54,000 each year (a combination of salary contributions plus corporate matching). Do that for a few decades, you will have a retirement account that will greatly exceed whatever you can put into an IRA/401K.

    That's the real problem in my mind.

    You need to change your thinking. The tax laws will never change to favor the small guy, so why not use them to your own advantage? The trick comes from converting earned income (taxed at highest rate) to portfolio (stocks) and/or passive (real estate) income (taxed at a lower rate). When portfolio/passive income exceeds earned income, you can stop working for someone else and work for yourself.

  10. Does Apple operate under different tax laws? by Brannon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All these big companies are playing by the same rules. You'll have to find another reason to rationalize why some of them are way more successful than others.

  11. Re:"Over" means "too much" by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

    Given that I am English it's certainly my native language.

    Now, what's so special about roads and military? Why should they be collectivised and not police, fire brigade, education and health?

    "Over" seems to be your particular extremist priorities and not any kind of arguable threshold.

    The idea that if government controls more than roads and military, "things go bad" is complete nonsense, that isn't demonstrated by the real world. Amongst the happiest nations in the world are the Scandinavian countries that have relatively high taxation, and socialise huge amounts of social services.