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Microsoft To End Nagging Windows 10 Upgrade Notifications In July (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Microsoft has officially announced today it will end the annoying "Get Windows 10" notifications in July, when they end the free Windows 10 upgrade offer. In a statement to WinBeta, Microsoft said in a comment: "Details are still being finalized, but on July 29th the Get Windows 10 app that facilitates the easy upgrade to Windows 10 will be disabled and eventually removed from PCs worldwide. Just as it took time to ramp up and roll out the Get Windows 10 app, it will take time to ramp it down." This is great news for users who have decided to not install Windows 10 for whatever reason. Earlier this week, it was reported that the Windows 10 update has been ruining pro-graming streams. In April, the Windows 10 upgrade screen interrupted a meteorologist's live forecast.
There's streams about proffesional graham crackers?
Just installed without asking.
They'll probably double-down on re-enabling the "recommended" updates that add the spyware to previous versions of Windows.
Pro-graming?
Why would they spend the time? As far as they are concerned, Windows XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 are competitors to Windows 10 which costs them more to maintain and with fewer monetization/expansion options, why would they do anything but encourage you to move to the new great future they believe they have created?
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
I think it's meant to imply a pro version of a bro-grammer.
Because they already spent the time to make spyware for Windows 7 and 8 and because data harvesting makes them money.
It will be nice to not have to worry about my Windows 7 development machines not being turned over to the Dark Side.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Citation?
And did they add this 'spyware' after the releases of later operating systems?
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Because of this kind of thing it is my computer not theirs. Not their ad billboard. Not free to upload or download anything they want. Neither is my bandwidth they are using to do it. No different than breaking into my house and taking what you want because you made the door knob.
No, you are looking for Tech Chat on AOL.
Would you rather have them try to update four operating systems, or just one?
.
Yet Microsoft upped the game and started to use what appeared to be malware infestation techniques to try to trick me into getting Windows 10.
Microsoft's reputation and credibility has been all but permanently damaged, imo.
Microsoft seems to have had their heart set of giving away the razor kits, but selling the blades with Windows 10.
Unfortunately, their Windows Store appears to mostly be filled with copy-cat apps and intentional scams - and when you DO buy "apps" from the store, you don't get a proper executable to use as you'd like such as you'd get from GOG or Steam.
What Microsoft is promoting is a 'Universal Windows Platform" or UWP. UWP applications aren't proper windows programs that you can freely use as you're used to. Instead, they're packaged in encrypted folders, and are essentially laden down with heavy DRM, like a new-age DIVX format. That means, no modding except for very limited things developers exactly plan for, no true fullscreen for games (borderless windowed is forced for now), very few graphics options, and essentially everything locked to how an "XBox One" would present things, since that is the basic intention, to allow game developers to simultaneously publish without separate testing or development cycles on all MS-owned platforms.
Expect to get a LOT more pressure in that direction, before they give up on this approach, almost exactly the same as happened with the horrible GFWL initiative years back.
Somehow though, there's still going to be SOME game developers that drink the cool-aide on this, and will publish UWP games. I'd say stick with Steam/GOG/etc on the platform of your choice, and politely and constructively complain on their forums if they don't bother to publish an actual PC port of the game.
Ryan Fenton
Windows 7 works fine, ain't broken, don't fix it.
Because people paid for those operating systems and expect full support for them for the listed amount of time. Give me a break, Windows 8.1 is essentially brand new and Windows 10 has no features worth mentioning that differentiate it from a Windows 8.1 service pack. Should they list their support as "supported until 2023 or until we change our mind"?
"Hello, I am a Nigerian prince and I need your help to sneak my OS onto your country's PCs."
Citation?
And did they add this 'spyware' after the releases of later operating systems?
We don't need to cite that data harvesting makes a company money. It's literally the business plan of several dot-coms.
As far as them adding the telemetry to earlier versions of Windows, it's common knowledge now.
http://techne.alaya.net/?p=124...
I have personally deselected and hidden these updates only to see them get un-hidden and added automatically as Recommended updates to download and install at a later date. I'd also like to note this had happened more than once with some of these individual updates, and it often happens when I get a large (15-30 updates) list at once from Microsoft. These large groups of updates are not "backed up" updates I have missed since last time. I have Windows Update run as a startup item when I log in to my computer, so I'm manually checking for updates every day on my PC. And every day I get an update for the Windows Defender definitions. But once in awhile I get a dozen or so "important" updates for Windows itself, and it's quite coincidental that one of the updates I had previously hidden is added into that list.
Seems like a orchestrated attempt to get me to install it. Stick it in a large list, and I'm more likely to just say "install all" than actually read the KBs for each or compare them to a list of known problem ones.
Tell me, if these updates are so harmless, why is Microsoft so vehement I install them after I tell them once I don't want them?
And what turds will they leave on my system?
between nag ware and reaching out and fucking our shit up, ms is being an excellent spokesperson for linux.
As far as they are concerned, Windows XP/Vista/7/8/8.1 are competitors to Windows 10 which costs them more to maintain and with fewer monetization/expansion options, why would they do anything but encourage you to move to the new great future they believe they have created?
The features for adding telemetry to previous versions of Windows do not add any real customer-facing value. It only benefits Redmond.
After almost a year of "free upgrade offer" and "forced upgrades", Microsoft knows anyone not on 10 is taking proactive steps to stay there. If they get the telemetry added to the customer's previous version of Windows, well there's one less reason to stay on that version -- might as well upgrade to 10 and get the new features.
The fewer people using the older version of Windows, the easier it will be for Microsoft to hand-wave off having to support them, too. Remember how they pretty much had to offer to extend support for XP due to its popularity?
Microsoft is already is on the hook to support these (current) older versions of Windows for some time because of their own product lifecycles. They can try what they want with their "changeable EULAs" but suddenly shortening the support lifecycle for a software product purchased by a business sounds like a great way to get certain individuals phoning their state attorney generals.
On July 31, there will be an out-of-band update that will prompt the user, "Would you like to ruin your life and everything in it?" If you select "Yes" then it will install Windows 10. If you select "No" it will install Windows 10 and say, "you're welcome". ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
7 still has more marketshare than 10. After 10 months of a free "upgrade" offer from a 7 year old OS.
>> it will end the annoying "Get Windows 10" notifications in July
and replace it with annoying "Buy Windows 10" notifications.
Lots of bricks will be available. You will be assimilated or else we brick your PC.
Seems like a orchestrated attempt to get me to install it. Stick it in a large list, and I'm more likely to just say "install all" than actually read the KBs for each or compare them to a list of known problem ones.
in business, its known as a 'shit sandwich'
(no, really. it is.)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
and you don't have MS Office, Windows 10 will start popping up adds in the desktop UI encouraging you to buy office.
Do they think that people are somehow unaware that Office exists and is available for purchase? Or that you'll fork over the money to buy office to make the stupid pop-ups go away? Or do they just want people to think they're sleazy, obnoxious assholes?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Microsoft's reputation and credibility has been all but permanently damaged, imo.
I agree, except for the "all but".
We've been actively reducing our dependence on anything from Microsoft ever since Nadella took over, and I doubt our policy will change until the senior management team has changed again and the corporate strategy has changed with it.
Personally, I expect that to happen before Windows 7 support runs out. I don't think they can afford not to have a credible successor available by then, and clearly for many people and businesses that successor is not Windows 10.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
It will be nice to not have to worry about my Windows 7 development machines not being turned over to the Dark Side.
Yes it is, however are you aware of Windows 7 support by Microsoft actually expired on January 13, 2015 and unless you have extended support which expires January 14, 2020 you are effectively running on an unsupported operating system. That may be fine for home PC users however it may not be all that good for commercial businesses. Actually just on curiosity what are you developing for since Windows 7 is not longer mainstream supported?
Take a look here for more information.
If you are an avid gamer then you will have to shift to Windows 10 since DirectX 12 is only supported on this operating system unless you don't want to play the latest MS Windows centric games.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
"Pro" in the fundamental meaning of the term "professional" - they're getting paid for it.
More likely they will simply release the Windows 10 SE version (secure edition), that you have to pay for, in conjunction with Windows anal probe 10, that you get for free. They would also have to allow up clean-up version for those who want to swap from anal probe to SE (secure edition). It just means the enterprise version just becomes available to typical end users. Also watch out, that means disabling the probes on the free version will also become impossible ie pay or probe extortion.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This is his they lead you to their walled garden. Eventually UWP will get all the new API versions and updates, such as DirectX, and Win32 will be left to stagnate and eventually will be shed and relegated to legacy VM only.
Twinstiq, game news
What kind of valuable support does Microsoft even offer outside of security updates? The updates are it.
You have to be a brain-dead moron with Alzheimer's to believe anything Microsoft states.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
meanwhile nobody gives a fuck about Windows news or the FBI hacking iPhones to stop terror.
cunts pls. Total spyware on a 1993 NTFS filesystem, and now not nagging to install "beginning in July" is just another gay story.
go linux!
You sound new, welcome to Microsoft! This is SOP for Microsoft, do yourself a favor. Go Linux!
Yes exactly. But that was the deal - 1 year to freely upgrade. Afterwards, pay us.
Maybe download the updater ISO that includes a valid Win10 install key for your device, without installing it. Possibly it'd still be valid to install after the July window, even if you apply it in a year or two.
(I remember having to apply the November 10586 build over the top of the July 10240 build because the update process was broken, so I wonder what'll happen about the "anniversary update". If it's broken or they start charging it'll give me an excuse to replace the HDD with an SSD to put debian on it. But this laptop only cost $50 to begin with!)
If you are a developer there is A TON of things in visual studio on 10 that are not on 7. Better HTML 5 and CSS, azure, and other technologies. Hyper0V too is essential as Dell no longer makes VMWare Workstation. No IT admin, trainer, or developer doesn't do virtualization
That is why I went to 8.1 kicking and crying and then 10.
No more notifications because they will downgrade your PC automatically. Fuck you PC user.
Because people paid for those operating systems and expect full support for them for the listed amount of time. Give me a break, Windows 8.1 is essentially brand new and Windows 10 has no features worth mentioning that differentiate it from a Windows 8.1 service pack. Should they list their support as "supported until 2023 or until we change our mind"?
I hate to bust your bubble here but Microsoft only has mainstream support for Windows 8 (8.1 is a service pack) as well as Windows 10. Take a look here and Win 8 is only mainstream supported till January 9, 2018 which is not that far away. Sure you can get extended support for Vista, Win 7 and even Win 8 but you will be paying for that.
If you are a PC gamer then you either upgrade or you will not be able to play DirectX 12 games since that suit of API's is only supported on Windows 10.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
That's what the anonymous Microsoft employee posted yesterday on slashdot.
I hate to bust your bubble here but Microsoft only has mainstream support for Windows 8 (8.1 is a service pack) as well as Windows 10. Take a look here and Win 8 is only mainstream supported till January 9, 2018 which is not that far away. Sure you can get extended support for Vista, Win 7 and even Win 8 but you will be paying for that.
Actually, you're the one who has it wrong. Microsoft preempted the original Windows 8 release with the 8.1 release. They no longer support 8.0 and the 8.1, Update 1 release is the one being supported through 2023.
Think of if like Windows 98 vs 98SE.
And that's part of the problem Windows 8 is NEW! And yet support expires so incredibly quickly? A grand total of 5 years. I computer will last longer than that. Is Windows a supported operating system that cares about customers, or just a phone app wannabe? It's a shitty move by a shitty company to push their shitty OS, and people still manage to praise them for their mediocrity. Best reason to upgrade always seems to be "you'll have to get it done sooner or later so why not now" which is the sort of reason you get when you debate having your wisdom teeth pulled.
And who the hell wants DX12 games? Does it have useful features or was it invented solely to lock people into an unwanted operating system? If game makers require DX12 then they know in advance that they're cutting out the majority of their market who are still on DX9/10 and perfectly happy with that.
Windows 8.1 is essentially brand new
It is? Since when is 3 years old in the computer world "brand new"?
Even cars aren't considered "brand new" when they are 3 years old.
Windows 10 has no features worth mentioning that differentiate it from a Windows 8.1 service pack
From that point of view, Windows 10 is just a really fancy Windows Vista service pack, but that isn't how any of this works.
They COULD have made it all Vista and service packs, if everyone was paying yearly sub fees, but since that isn't how Windows is sold, they need new versions to bring in money.
We don't need to cite that data harvesting makes a company money. It's literally the business plan of several dot-coms.
Actually, I rather think you do. Those business plans are typically (1) harvest data, (2) ???, (3) profit.
Sometimes that mystery step (2) is sell it on to advertisers, or use it for targeted advertising. I myself work at Microsoft -- not in the Windows division; our division's product Visual Studio does collect opt-in telemetry, and our missing step (2) is nothing more sinister than "improve the product so that future customers are more likely to want to use it".
Do you think that mystery step (2) in Windows is using it for targeted advertising? or something else? I find it hard to make the leap from telemetry like "anonymized data shows Solitaire is the third-most popular program" (made up datapoint) to "targeting ads to this customer is worth $XYZ", but maybe there's something there that I'm just not seeing.
Yes it is, however are you aware of Windows 7 support by Microsoft actually expired on January 13, 2015 and unless you have extended support which expires January 14, 2020 you are effectively running on an unsupported operating system.
You are mistaken...
Microsoft ended mainstream support, which simply means no new product features...
EVERYONE gets extended support for bug fixes and security updates until 2020.
I hate to bust your bubble here but Microsoft only has mainstream support for Windows 8 (8.1 is a service pack) as well as Windows 10. Take a look here and Win 8 is only mainstream supported till January 9, 2018 which is not that far away. Sure you can get extended support for Vista, Win 7 and even Win 8 but you will be paying for that.
Actually, you're the one who has it wrong. Microsoft preempted the original Windows 8 release with the 8.1 release. They no longer support 8.0 and the 8.1, Update 1 release is the one being supported through 2023.
Think of if like Windows 98 vs 98SE.
I will concede that Microsoft only support 8.1 (which is a service pack for 8.0), however mainstream support for 8.1 is January 9, 2018 (as per the Microsoft web site). I did not explain it properly however I did provide the URL for the Microsoft support information site. Even if you still had MS Win 8 you can still get a free upgrade to 8.1 see here so even though I was technically wrong in stating Win 8 was mainstream supported till January 9, 2018 there is no associated cost with upgrading to Win 8.1 and getting free "mainstream support" at least until January 9, 2018.
There are two types of support Microsoft provides for their operating systems, they are "mainstream support" which is free while "extended support" requires you to pay for it and somehow I doubt most home PC users would pay for this service.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Essentially brand new because it's only 3 years old. Barely 1/3 into it's expected life span (based upon end of life support). Even a 3 year old car is considered new, though not brand new. Anyone replacing a car in 3 years is too fashion conscience most likely. Replacing an OS in only 3 years is something silly, like getting a new iphone just because there is one. Windows 7 has been in productive service (not limping along) for 6 years. XP is still in service many places and is perfectly fine for many things, and it's been around for 14 years. They stick around because they get patched and have updates and service packs. Now Microsoft decides no, they'll make sure you upgrade or die by not updating the older systems.
Why replace the OS when it's perfectly fine, has no problems, runs all the software you want to run on it, and will be supported until 2023?
Who cares if Microsoft needs money or not? If I said I needed money would you send me some? Probably not, so why play lapdog to Microsoft? If they can't get people to adopt Windows 10 without begging and cheating and won't revamp their strategy then they deserve to go bankrupt.
7 still has more marketshare than 10. After 10 months of a free "upgrade" offer from a 7 year old OS.
Yes, because most people never change the OS that comes with their computers...
Those people will use Windows 7 until 2020 when support ends, then buy a new computer with Windows 11 on it...
Nothing new there...
Not a gamer - development work is for SoC Firmware.
Win7 until 2020 suits me fine.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Oh, also essentially brand new since you can still buy newly manufactured PCs with Windows 8.1 pre-installed (through October).
For example, they were still selling PCs with XP preinstalled in 2010. So you could say its only 7 years old instead of 14, depending upon when you bought it.
Essentially brand new because it's only 3 years old.
In computer terms, 3 years isn't "new" at all...
Even a 3 year old car is considered new, though not brand new. Anyone replacing a car in 3 years is too fashion conscience most likely.
Nope, you couldn't be more wrong...
I replaced my 2012 SUV with the 2015 model because the 2015 model has auto-emergency braking, lane departure warning, cross traffic alert, etc...
The 2012 version didn't have any of that and those are pure safety features.
Replacing an OS in only 3 years is something silly, like getting a new iphone just because there is one.
A 3 year old iPhone is quite different to the new one. That would be the first iPhone 5, and the iPhone 6s is quite different to the iPhone 5 in features and size.
Windows 7 has been in productive service (not limping along) for 6 years.
Windows 7 is showing its age now... it was wonderful when it came out, but it becomes obvious when you switch between 7 and 10 how much has changed.
Yes, MS could technically just offer service packs to include the features in 7 that exist in 10, but again, that isn't how this works. You aren't paying them a yearly fee to support that.
If Windows ever becomes a "service" rather than a "product", then you may well see that feature.
XP is still in service many places and is perfectly fine for many things, and it's been around for 14 years.
Not in general use however. Sure, it runs specific programs on specific machines that don't have to be connected to anything, but it long since doesn't belong on a general desktop computer.
Why replace the OS when it's perfectly fine, has no problems, runs all the software you want to run on it, and will be supported until 2023?
No one says you have to, but why keep the OS when the new version is better, runs all the software you want to run on it, and will be supported even longer, and better yet, it is FREE!
Who cares if Microsoft needs money or not?
Microsoft does...
Do you think that mystery step (2) in Windows is using it for targeted advertising? or something else? I find it hard to make the leap from telemetry like "anonymized data shows Solitaire is the third-most popular program" (made up datapoint) to "targeting ads to this customer is worth $XYZ", but maybe there's something there that I'm just not seeing.
Maybe you need a Spotlight to see it better.
Oh, look! It's already happening.
But I'm sure Microsoft did not profit in any way financially from that ad. After all -- Rise of the Tomb Raider is not a Microsoft game, and I'm sure they're advertising it for Square Enix for free, right? And if you do buy Rise of the Tomb Raider, through the Windows Store as the ad suggests, Microsoft is going to forego their 30% cut. Right?
I myself work at Microsoft -- not in the Windows division; our division's product Visual Studio does collect opt-in telemetry, and our missing step (2) is nothing more sinister than "improve the product so that future customers are more likely to want to use it".
If you're in a different division I don't hold it against you. I'd chalk this up to "one hand not knowing what the other's doing" -- hardly a new thing at Microsoft.
I was originally going to wait and see how Windows 10 worked out before upgrading. I heard a few bad things, but things I could deal with by control settings and registry, and because I could get pro edition free. But over time Microsoft has gotten worse, and more information has come out. Even Pro edition is required to accept all updates (not just security updates); Microsoft has been cheating and tricking people into installing their advertisements, "accidentally" downloading copies, adding worse features (no ability to set group policy to disable the store), and so forth. It's not as bad as everyone said it was going to be, it's worse.
Ok, sure, ask people to upgrade, let them know about Windows 10. But do it ONCE. Instead they're acting like someone offering you a free cheese sample at the grocery store but who keeps following you around the store and pleading "just one bite, do it now, you know you'll be forced to eat the cheese at the checkout line so why wait, oh I shoved a piece in your bag when you weren't looking".
Only "mainstream" support for Windows 7 ended. That only means no new features. No one cares about new features. Extended support is still ongoing though meaning you will get security updates and updates for reliability.
I'm a developer. Things work great on Linux and OSX for developers. Better than that wannabe web and IT oriented Windows.
You don't need to play the wack-a-mole game so much if you use Spybot Anti Beacon.
https://www.safer-networking.o...
Everyone goes on about GWX Control Panel so much but totally miss this and the fact telemetry was pack ported to Windows 7 and 8.
So after forcing the software on windows users everywhere, at random times, now they think they can start charging for it and have people bend over? Damn I'm glad I started refusing to use windows back around 3.1.
You will still need sanitization. Remember telemetry built in to Windows 10 was also back ported to Windows 7 and 8 via Windows Update.
Spybot Anti Beacon. https://www.safer-networking.o...
Everyone goes on about GWX Control Panel so much http://ultimateoutsider.com/do... but totally miss Spybot Anti Beacon and the fact telemetry was pack ported to Windows 7 and 8.
I also recommend apart from your favourite flavours of security software is a software based firewall like Agnitum Outpost Firewall (now sadly bought out tho). Not only do you need to firewall your network but you need something like this to protect within the operating system from dodgy programs and drivers doing things in the system itself.
Oh, look! It's already happening.
But I'm sure Microsoft did not profit in any way financially from that ad.
Your phrase "not profit financially" is shifting the goalposts. The thread was about whether the telemetry data is being monetized.
Your first link was about pointing users, based on their usage, to apps that might might be relevant but they hadn't considered or noticed. Unless and until MS goes down Apple's allegedly planned route of paid app-store search, that's not an example.
Your second example was about an ad for Tomb Raider being shown on the lock screen. Again, unless the telemetry influenced the decision to show that ad in such a way as to make Microsoft more money, it's again not an example. Maybe the ad would only be shown to users who have launched non-casual games in the past six months based on telemetry? and this would have made Microsoft money because they could sell the ad spot to Square Enix for a higher price? I can imagine that. (and indeed have never seen the ad myself, nor launched any games myself...)
The new version is NOT better. It has changed but change is not always better and Microsoft has proven that.
And I don't care if Microsoft needs money. Everyone needs money but I can't give some to everyone. Microsoft will have to wait in line. Now if they had a useful product then maybe I would consider bumping them ahead in line.
unless you have extended support which expires January 14, 2020
You say that as if it's possible for him to not have extended support. Everyone has extended support and Windows 8.1 goes until 2023.
That gives me 7 years to move over to another OS, which is plenty of time.
the nagging about the free upgrade will end, but yes, not without flipping the switch to 'important' auto-install update for the windows 10 upgrade.. with the currently in-place confirmation box *after* its installed to (hopefully without issue) revert back to previous version.
soon will also feature adverts for the paid upgrade instead, along with further forced obsolescence of 7/8 by shutting off or crippling other things to ''encourage'' users to choose the upgrade path.
also remember ending soon will be major oem's factory installed downgrades on new pc purchase.. (EVEN THOUGH IT WILL STILL BE A RIGHT IN EULA TO DO.. you'll have to do it yourself). soon it will be windows 10 or something not microsoft.
Microsoft has to prove what they are doing with their spyware data (it's not "telemetry", stop calling it that) because they encrypt the transfers.
Personally, I don't want any data leaving my systems unless I, the user, explicitly tell it to.
The new version is NOT better.
You're welcome to that opinion, but I disagree... There isn't anything from 7 that I miss in 10...
Two days ago I had to setup Windows 7 on a computer and it did nothing but remind me why all my computers now run Windows 10. It is superior in every way.
And I don't care if Microsoft needs money.
Of course you don't, nor should you... but it was an answer to the point of "who cares if Microsoft needs money". Clearly they care, so they'll run their business that way.
Expecting anything else is just foolish.
Now if they had a useful product then maybe I would consider bumping them ahead in line.
First, Windows 10 is free right now, so you can hardly claim cost is an issue. After July 29 that will no longer be true, but if you skipped the upgrade because you're stubborn, then that is just your fault.
Second, if you like Windows 7, then you're free to keep using it, just keep in mind that it runs out of support in 2020 and it is no longer getting feature updates. If you're ok with that, then more power to you...
(2) doesn't need to be "sinister" in your eyes. If I can't turn it off, it is sinister full stop.
Those business plans are typically (1) harvest data, (2) ???, (3) profit.
...
Do you think that mystery step (2) in Windows is using it for targeted advertising? or something else?
I think that business plan is to provide all collected data, including passwords and other sensitive information, to several US government agencies, in return for contracts and other favours from the government.
Some say Po-TAY-to some say PO-tot-O.
You say telemetry, I say no way to opt-out, private, hashed, block evading spyware.
Same fucking thing, right?
I will concede that Microsoft only support 8.1 (which is a service pack for 8.0), however mainstream support for 8.1 is January 9, 2018 (as per the Microsoft web site). I did not explain it properly however I did provide the URL for the Microsoft support information site. Even if you still had MS Win 8 you can still get a free upgrade to 8.1 see here so even though I was technically wrong in stating Win 8 was mainstream supported till January 9, 2018 there is no associated cost with upgrading to Win 8.1 and getting free "mainstream support" at least until January 9, 2018.
There are two types of support Microsoft provides for their operating systems, they are "mainstream support" which is free while "extended support" requires you to pay for it and somehow I doubt most home PC users would pay for this service.
No, that's still wrong.
"Desktop Operating Systems" falls into this category, and it doesn't matter if it's Home, Pro, or Enterprise.
Remember that Windows XP Home users continued to get security fixes until just a couple years ago.
Microsoft's reputation and credibility has been all but permanently damaged, imo.
I think that train started leaving in 90s and left in early 2000s.
I've hidden the Silver Light update on all my Computers and not one of them came back.
One of my Computers (a386) doesn't update properly any more - it goes through the motions but never actually does anything. You may be using a damaged install.
Gamers want dx12. Most people see free updates as good.
Your fanboy (of something else) is showing. :p
Increased telemetry definitely does have a consumer facing value.
If users get stuck in the same spot, or programming crashes sending a better idea of what they were doing to cause the error, then they can add instruction and not worry so much about getting an accurate statement from the casual user to reproduce problems for patching
If there was a way I could get a free valid copy of Windows 10 now (as an upgrade from my current Windows 7 copy) without actually installing it yet, I would go for it just so I have the option to install it later without paying for it. But I have yet to see a way to do that anywhere.
Oh, also essentially brand new since you can still buy newly manufactured PCs with Windows 8.1 pre-installed (through October).
Most of those are older models that simply haven't been updated yet...
And considering that they currently get a free upgrade to Windows 10, you can hardly complain...
In any case, your entire point is meaningless, Windows 8.1 is still mainstream supported with product and feature updates. It is Windows 7 and Windows 8.0 that are out of date.
And that's part of the problem Windows 8 is NEW!
Windows 8.0 is not new... it is currently supported as 8.1, which is a free update to everyone and always will be...
Windows 8.1 will continue to get security updates and patches until 2023...
You clearly are reading what you wish to read if you think anything else...
That disables it. A simple google search will help.
There is some genuinely good stuff in Windows 10, and I know many ordinary users who are quite happy with it. There problem is the spyware. If they hadn't ruined it with built-in malware, it would have been great. Or at least as great as Windows ever gets.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Well, they could for example spend some time to 'accidentally' make your experience with Windows 7 more miserable, in order to make you pay for an update to Windows 10.
Hey, just an idea... of course, they would never do that.
what really matters with a 'shit sandwich' is how much bread you have in it and how thinly the shit is spread....
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The last time the update that installs Windows 10 came back I wrote to Microsoft. I told them that further attempts to force enable this update would be charged at my standard rate. Next time I'll send them an invoice, and if they don't pay it's on to Small Claims Court.
This technique works well for all sorts of irritations in the UK. TV Licencing harassment, spam, cold callers etc. Works best against large companies who are desperate to avoid having the bailiffs sent in to their offices.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I agree with them, at least as far as patching dangerous errors in the software. In addition, the MSFT model has always been to sell the OS with a new machine, so for as long as that machine lasts...
I hope the person in charge of the seven-second delay/bleep was on the ball. If I'd been that meteorologist, I'm certain there'd have been something to bleep.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
... how microsoft installs and uninstalls software on our pcs via updates. You install an update and expect some bugfixes and improvments and end up with a new program installed. You install the next update and the program will be uninstalled. That's not how updates are supposed to work.
And it's scary, what ms might install in the future via an update.
In judiciary terms it's called "deceptive practices" and "fraudulent behaviour". Chew on that one.
What do HTML5 and CSS have to do with Windows support?
Try Steve Gibson's "Never10" utility that blocks upcoming and removes already-downloaded (but not-yet-installed) Win10 updates.
He also wrote the ShieldsUp! scanner.
Check GRC dot com.
It worked so well the first time...!
Captcha: restrict
Today I noticed that KB3035583 popped back up in my list of optional updates for Win 7. Doesn't matter that I've told it to stop showing me that one 4 TIMES already, Micor$oft keeps pushing it down my throat. That's why I keep looking up the KB numbers at independent sites before I install them. Micro$oft stop pushing and nagging about the upgrade around July 29th? Yeah, but in what YEAR? I bet they stop pushing it once they start pushing for us to upgrade to Win 11. I think my next computer OS is going to be *nix once I can't get Win 7. By then the ability to run Windows software should be a lot more stable.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
Oh, look! It's already happening.
But I'm sure Microsoft did not profit in any way financially from that ad.
Your phrase "not profit financially" is shifting the goalposts. The thread was about whether the telemetry data is being monetized.
Your first link was about pointing users, based on their usage, to apps that might might be relevant but they hadn't considered or noticed.
You're turning this into a semantics argument now. The original comment was that Microsoft was collecting info to make money -- we know that what the AC meant that they used the data in an activity (a "step 2") that made money, not that the act of spying itself gained them greenbacks.
But here you come. "Nuh-uhh! You have to do something with the info to make money.
And me: "Yeah, they are doing something with the info. Straight from the horses mouth, they use the data to tailor messages to users that appear on their Lock screens, in their Start menus, and in the lower-right corner of their monitors. These messages include suggestions for software products. Software products that are sometimes not free, and that Microsoft makes money off of, either indirectly through advertising revenue from the developers, or through direct compensation for making the product available via their own Windows App storefront.
I see a MS Office ad-blip almost every day at work. And no, I doesn't have to be a full-blown page extolling the virtues of Office to count as an advertisement. It appeared on-screen unannounced, it broke my attention from what I was doing (that corner is where system messages appear after all), and it wants me to seek info on a paid product -- It's an ad.
When I change the default browser on a Windows 10 machine at work to Firefox, it doesn't just change over -- it makes me go through what really is a page extolling the virtues of MS Edge, and then after declining that it changes over. That's also an advertisement. My usage of Edge over Firefox also benefits Microsoft in that they are able to collect more info based on my usage of their product, info that's used in marketing, or to help sell me into using other Microsoft services (like their web properties).
All of these activities benefit Microsoft financially in that they allow them to collect information on customers (current and potential) with a minimum of effort on their part. So this "you're shift goalposts" argument now is just horse shit. The information makes them money is the end result. Period.
"opt-in telemetry" Bullshit. When I installed Win7, I explicitly opted OUT of Microsoft's Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) -- that telemetry collection you refer to (or at least one version of it). Years went by without problems. A few months before the Win10 nagware crap was installed because it was falsely labeled a security update, I noticed that suddenly my nightly backups were running so slow that they weren't done by the time I woke up in the morning. Only when the nagware virus was installed did I start digging, and realized that along the way some other "upgrade" had turned that CEIP crap back on (the upload of all the data they collected was what was delaying the backups). Microsoft had been tracking everything I did for months, without my knowing.
The next week I bought a Mac. I've moved all data over, and found equivalents for software, for all but one software package I use, and I'll be getting that within weeks. After that, the former Win box will be wiped and replaced with a BSD variant (haven't decided which one yet). I will never trust Microsoft again, with anything, ever. I hate your company, I hate your software, I hate your executives, I hate your coworkers, and as long as you work there I'll hate you too.
At work I helped us choose SAS over what Microsoft was offering, even though we already had the Microsoft stuff as part of what we licensed, and even though I don't like SAS, but I hate you more. There are other decisions that will be made over the next few months as well; I will push anything other than Microsoft. Although I only have about another decade to work before I retire, I will do my level best to deny Microsoft millions of dollars of purchases.
You fucked me once. Never again.
Doesn't that pretty much coincide with the time they start charging for Windows 10? I was in the beta forever and even though I have a pre-release version of Windows can I still get the upgrade pop ups. I tried to use my Windows key from my laptop running Windows 7 but it's rejecting it. It's a used machine that used to belong to the Department of Defense so I'm sure it's probably some weird issue with the license key being shown as owned by them and it's causing problems because now it's a home IP address that's trying to upgrade it maybe? I don't know. I just know it next me constantly but then won't let me upgrade. It's going to keep this shit up until right after the last date so they can charge me just you watch.
We need a new term for what Microsoft is doing. How about "data rape"? They hold down your computer and shove their rotting OS into it, no matter how you try to get away or stop them. Eventually most people give up and just hope their computer gets through it and isn't killed.
I'll settle for that. We are on Win 7 Pro at work. Apparently Win 10 Pro isn't equivalent, and to get the same level of control we will need to get Win 10 Enterprise at whatever cost. It's 2016 now, so I hope that between now and 2020 either MS will see sense and start treating it's customers decently, or managing the corporate network will be someone elses problem.
I actually agree with you... Pro should have more control over the update process...
I completely understand why businesses don't want every single security update going out on day one...
Windows 7 is still supported. It's just not "mainstream" support, and what that means is that it won't necessarily get major features and will only get security or other important upgrades (important to the customer that is), and that's what most customers want. I've got 8.1, It was an improvement over Windows 7 if you can get past the metro and the app store (and I like the flat look myself, I though W7 was too glossy and flashy).
Windows 10 could have been just an upgrade; after all they did apologize for Windows 8, fired the Windows VP, and got a new CEO. But the apparently weren't sincere about the apology as W10 is even worse to the users. All upgrades are mandatory, even the unimportant ones, even in Pro edition; spyware telemetry; advertising barrage to everyone; and continued removal of user's control over their own computer. And they kept most of the bad stuff from Windows 8 that everyone bitched about - the store, the idiotic metro apps, gestures, etc.
These stealth updates were previously flagged as Win10 related, but yesterday I got an undifferentiated update that required me to click on the More Information link.... And it was an update to the Win10 upgrade wizard. What was updated they didn't say. But 35 years of experience with Microsoft makes it a reasonable possibility that my system would soon be installing Win10 all by itself. I don't waste this much time or thought on my MacBook Air or my Chromebook. Maybe that's part of the psychology: so much effort put in I risk feeling "invested"?
Only boring people are ever bored.
I used to dual boot some 3 machines. The Windows 10 nagware etc (trouble to switch off their prying parts) caused me to change these machines to Linux only!
Regards Eion MacDonald
And they want to keep the source closed and hidden and refuse to let anyone else support it or even the users to fix it themselves.
Tell you what, when it's no longer available, give me back my money. It was leased, not given.
Yes, I've had use of your software for 10 years, but you've had use of my cash for 10 years. Even mild investment should have doubled the value of it, and I'm only asking for the original premium back, you can keep the rest.
Or keep it updated as long as you want to retain copyrights.
You are failing miserably.