Slashdot Mirror


Why Don't Scientists Kill The 'Demon In The Freezer'?

HughPickens.com writes: Smallpox was one of the most devastating diseases humanity has ever faced, killing more than 300 million people in the 20th century alone. But thanks to the most successful global vaccination campaign in history, the disease was completely eradicated by 1980. By surrounding the last places on earth where smallpox was still occurring -- small villages in Asia and Africa -- and inoculating everyone in a wide circle around them, D. A. Henderson and the World Health Organization were able to starve the virus of hosts. Smallpox is highly contagious, but it is not spread by insects or animals. When it is gone from the human population, it is gone for good. But Errol Moris writes in the NYT that Henderson didn't really eliminate smallpox. In a handful of laboratories around the world, there are still stocks of smallpox, tucked away in one freezer or another. In 2014 the CDC announced that vials containing the deadly virus had been discovered in a cardboard box in a refrigerator located on the National Institutes of Health (NIH) campus in Bethesda, Maryland. How can you say it's eliminated when it's still out there, somewhere? The demon in the freezer.

Some scientists say that these residual stocks of smallpox should not be destroyed because some ruthless super-criminal or rogue government might be working on a new smallpox, even more virulent than existing strains of the virus. We may need existing stocks to produce new vaccines to counteract the new viruses. Meanwhile, opponents of retention argue that there's neither need nor practical reason for keeping the virus around. In a letter to Science Magazine published in 1994, the Nobel laureate David Baltimore wrote, "I doubt that we so desperately need to study smallpox that it would be worth the risk inherent in the experimentation." It all comes down to the question of how best to protect ourselves against ourselves. Is the greater threat to humanity our propensity for error and stupidity, or for dastardly ingenuity?

13 of 287 comments (clear)

  1. Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It could be highly useful in future medical research, and the damage it could cause if it gets back into the wild would be minimal.

    1. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The likelihood of a large outbreak is small, because the most likely exposure would be to a lab tech in a 1st world country that has a sample. It's effectively contained and has been for nearly 40 years.

      As for it's usefullness, I have no idea other than making more vaccine in the event the known samples are not the only samples. But, it's precisely that we don't know what it could be useful for that we shouldn't destroy it.

    2. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not interesting, that's logical. If you're in a third world country where actual diseases run rampart and you SEE first hand what diseases do to your neighbor's kids, you want yours vaccinated. Against everything, and then some. Mercury? Aluminum? Fuck that shit, plug that needle in, doc!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by dwillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But that is contrary to the official view that small pox was eradicated in the wild in the early 70's. In other words it's supposedly not in the wild in other parts of the world. It was eradicated Globally, not just in the 1st world. The concern is that of the two known stockpiles the Russians are not known for maintaining strict security and it is feared that samples have been stolen and are in the hands of rogue nations or terror organizations.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    4. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That and most anti vaxxers are dumb as a box of rocks. The IQ of those types is very very low.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      . If it is different, then the current smallpox virus probably won't be of any real benefit in developing a vaccine for the new variant; they would need samples of the new virus instead.

      Comparing the structure and genome of an old smallpox sample to a new smallpox sample would help isolate what makes the new one different and resistant to the previous vaccine. That information would be helpful to anyone trying to develop a new vaccine.

    6. Re: Truly Epically Dumb to Destroy It by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish that were true. Never underestimate the stupidity of smart people. Especially when they know they're smart, so assume they know more than they really do.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  2. Why Don't Scientists Kill The Demon In The Freezer by Eloking · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why Don't Scientists Kill The 'Demon In The Freezer'?

    Because this isn't Resident Evil or some stupid Hollywood movie?

    --
    Elok
  3. Don't need it for just-in-case by clovis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some scientists say that these residual stocks of smallpox should not be destroyed because some ruthless super-criminal or rogue government might be working on a new smallpox, even more virulent than existing strains of the virus. We may need existing stocks to produce new vaccines to counteract the new viruses

    This is the one I have to wonder about.
    The vaccine for smallpox is not smallpox, It is vaccinia which is closely related to cowpox.
    If someone releases smallpox and you need to vaccinate, then you still don't need to have any smallpox.

    If someone makes a new type of smallpox and releases it, then you want the new smallpox to develop a defense against and test and now you have it from the infected people.
    And it seems unlikely that the old smallpox (deadly) would be used to make a vaccine against any new smallpox, but I admit the possibility.

    Smallpox is a member of the poxviridae family. If you need a virus like smallpox to fool around with in your lab, there are 28 genera and 69 species of pox.

    On the other hand, smallpox is not the only disease we have eradicated.
    Rinderpest is the other. Rinderpest is closely related to measles and measles probably evolved from rinderpest.
    Stocks of Rinderpest remain, but rinderpest vaccine is made from a rinderpest virus variant, so it makes sense that we would keep some of that for just in case.

  4. Re:The summary answers the question by jopsen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, besides... How will destroying all known samples prevent the case of "cardboard box in a refrigerator" that we don't know about...
    If that storage method was a surprise, the clearly efforts to burn all stored samples wouldn't have included that one..


    Obviously, though we really should increase control, regulation and security around these things.

  5. There are some things we simply should not destroy by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is one of them...

    Now that being said... stockpiles of the live virus should not be kept very many places and there needs to be a "destroy plan" in the event these locations become compromised. (such as war, civil unrest, the end of the world, etc.)

    Perhaps in the US, UK, France, Russia, and China... Each nation can have stored samples of the virus in known locations under guard.

    For the same reason we'll never really get rid of nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, or anything else, there is a greater than non-zero value to having them. But we don't need "lots" of them.

  6. Genocide... when's it OK? by jimduchek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Leaving aside, for the moment, the question of whether or not a virus is 'life' -- this question would apply to a bacterial disease as well -- how is this any different than the attempts in the last century to eradicate the North American wolf? They were dangerous (and quite inconvenient) to humans. Thankfully (to some...) we failed, and many people are happy they are returning. The reasons we wanted them gone haven't changed (although hardly as much an issue with the hugely reduced numbers).

    If it's not OK to eradicate a species that looks like the family dog, what about if they were squirrel-sized? Insects? Where's the line, exactly, where we say 'OK, on this side, it's good and right to completely remove this species from existence, but on the other side of the line, it's a 'protected species' to be preserved, and we just control it? One could argue that wolves served a purpose in the ecosystem by controlling deer and other game population -- but honestly, we will never allow the grey wolf population to grow to a number to have any real effect on that anymore.

    Not really taking a side on whether or not to eliminate the stocks we have of smallpox, but I feel like there certainly is an ethical question in whether or not it's OK to do so.

    (As a side note, I think 'genocide' only applies to killing humans, but you get the idea, I'm sure)

    --
    If I'm not back again this time tomorrow...
    1. Re:Genocide... when's it OK? by johannesg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A virus is about as 'alive' as the average piece of computer software, and when it comes down to the choice of the death of hundreds of people, or the virus, the choice should be easy enough. That some people apparently have so much trouble with their moral compass that they believe there is in fact some kind of ethical trade off here scares me.

      Not that size matters: I'm also happily in favor of fully eradicating other diseases and parasites, including multicellular ones. Anything that only causes untold grief and misery, and has no benefit other than its own miserable existence, I have no compunction removing from the planet.