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How the Pentagon Punished NSA Whistleblowers (theguardian.com)

10 years before Edward Snowden's leak, an earlier whistle-blower on NSA spying "was fired, arrested at dawn by gun-wielding FBI agents, stripped of his security clearance, charged with crimes that could have sent him to prison for the rest of his life, and all but ruined financially and professionally," according to a new article in The Guardian. "The only job he could find afterwards was working in an Apple store in suburban Washington, where he remains today... The supreme irony? In their zeal to punish Drake, these Pentagon officials unwittingly taught Snowden how to evade their clutches when the 29-year-old NSA contract employee blew the whistle himself."

But today The Guardian reveals a new story about John Crane, a senior official at the Department of Defense "who fought to provide fair treatment for whistleblowers such as Thomas Drake -- until Crane himself was forced out of his job and became a whistleblower as well..." Crane told me how senior Defense Department officials repeatedly broke the law to persecute whistleblower Thomas Drake. First, he alleged, they revealed Drake's identity to the Justice Department; then they withheld (and perhaps destroyed) evidence after Drake was indicted; finally, they lied about all this to a federal judge...

Crane's failed battle to protect earlier whistleblowers should now make it very clear that Snowden had good reasons to go public with his revelations... if [Crane's] allegations are confirmed in court, they could put current and former senior Pentagon officials in jail. (Official investigations are quietly under way.)

Meanwhile, George Maschke writes: In a presentation to a group of Texas law students, a polygraph examiner for the U.S. Department of Defense revealed that in the aftermath of Edward Snowden's revelations, the number of polygraphs conducted annually by the department tripled (to over 120,000). Morris also conceded that mental countermeasures to the polygraph are a "tough thing."

134 comments

  1. Who will watch the watchers? by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Official investigations are quietly under way.

    But who will watch (or protect) the watchers? Crane started blowing the whistle in 2002, so if there was an effective process for investigating his reports, you'd think it'd have concluded 14 years later...

    If the assistant inspector general supervising the whistleblower unit can't figure out how to safely be a whistleblower without getting hammered, then who can? Ironically, the image of a whistleblower is that the whistle immediately alerts everyone to an issue. How's that worked out for folks?

    --
    The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    1. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It has ALWAYS been this way and ALWAYS will be. You simply can't trust an organization to investigate itself or correct itself. It's a fundamental conflict of interest, isn't it? Hey bankrobber, some people tell me you've been robbing banks. Why don't you investigate yourself? OK. I just did. Nope, clean as a whistle!

    2. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 0

      when the revolution comes (and yes, its coming, no doubt about it; just don't know WHEN) these assholes will be up against the wall.

      I would buy a ticket to such an event, btw.

      these guys are evil fucking traitors and they will deserve any crowd justice that happens, when all hell finally breaks loose.

      and yes, I am pretty sure hell will break loose, as we see no sign of any reform or change in how our government does 'business'.

      I can see why they are afraid of the internet. it weakens them. it exposes them. they can't do their little (big) crimes in total darkness.

      why do you THINK the governments across the world all hate the free and open public internet?

      I hope we can change before the mob justice stuff happens. I don't really want to be around when the shit hits the fan. it won't be fun for anyone. but I do think its needed since we have jumped the shark and have totally lost our way.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > when the revolution comes (and yes, its coming, no doubt about it; just don't know WHEN) these assholes will be up against the wall.
      I would buy a ticket to such an event, btw.

      ...

      > I hope we can change before the mob justice stuff happens. I don't really want to be around when the shit hits the fan. it won't be fun for anyone.

      If you've ever wondered why people don't take you seriously ...

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    4. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is how did these organizations get this way, or were they always like this? If we can figure out how this happened, even if we dismantle the FBI and NSA and CIA we won't know how to prevent it from happening again.

    5. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do it? Dan, I'm not a Republic Serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

      Nothing they did mattered. Nothing has changed. Our mistake? Letting Nixon go. Ford should have been impeached for his pardon. It took barely another term of office before another scandal that should have rocked the country. It was a blip. Then another. And another.

      I swear, Donald Trump could get elected President if he shot some random Sikh, claimed he was an Arab terrorist and bought himself a slice of pizza from Ray's.

      As long as he didn't use a fork.

    6. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      But who will watch (or protect) the watchers? Crane started blowing the whistle in 2002, so if there was an effective process for investigating his reports, you'd think it'd have concluded 14 years later...

      The original issues that were the subject of actual whistle blowing were settled long ago. The "Trailblzer" program was defunded. FTA -

      In line with standard procedure, these investigative findings were relayed to the House and Senate committees overseeing the NSA – and this helped nudge Congress to end funding for the Trailblazer programme.

      The 4th Amendment issues have been addressed in various ways as well, although perhaps not to everyone's satisfaction. The problem there is that it is there are a number of different issues with each having their own scope and history of jurisprudence. Not everyone likes where things have ended up even if it is legal. There is potential for more conflict over that since Congress doesn't have the authority to override a Constitutional power of the President. And then there is the holding of the Supreme Court that phone records are ordinary business records. Lots of people don't like that. We'll see how it goes.

      The rest of the matter has been investigations and prosecution as the result of abuse and criminal behavior by by some people associated with the DOD IG and possibly the Department of Justice. There will probably be at least a couple of people high up in the DoD and maybe DoJ that will go to jail over the retaliation and misconduct.

      It looks like the system was pretty much working until some people high up in the system broke the rules, and now they will probably go to jail, as they should.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      lovely attack on my comments. but you are pretty much off-base.

      yes, I'd enjoy seeing the criminals that run out government be subject to the whims of the crowd.

      and that's not at all incompatible with not wanting to be in the mob's way, once that part is done and they go on a rampage of anger and violence.

      perhaps you have reading comprehension issues or you are just having a bad day. if you get your fun attacking me, well, I guess that speaks to your character.

      or perhaps you have other agendas you are trying to further?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    8. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I disagree. The FBI has been a corrupt organization from the top (J. E. Hoover) on down, but because they were breaking the law for a "good cause", they were allowed to get away with it by both Democrat and Republican administrations. It wasn't until the release of the COINTEL papers and the fact that Nixon was in office, that Congress suddenly grew a spine, and investigated the FBI under the Church committee. But it never would have happened without the "illegal" release of the FBI's wrong doing.

      As a follow-on, the FBI claims to have stopped the illegal COINTEL operations, but Parallel Construction leads me to believe it still goes on, under another name.

    9. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by Barny · · Score: 2

      He was pointing out that in the same comment you say you would like to be at such an event and then that you wouldn't.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    10. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      but there are two 'events':

      1) punishment for the criminals by a mob

      2) mob vengence upon society and riots upon the general population.

      I'm all for the first one. and I'm not excited about BEING there for the 2nd one.

      #1 is justice. #2 is people needing revenge. #1 would be only dangerous to those who were part of the controlling elite. #2 would be dangerous to everyone in their path.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    11. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't matter. And better a clear example that using, say the police. They are largely self-policed, and see no problems with anything they do. the initial finding on Walter Scott was that it was justified, though that's effectively been redacted, once the 3rd party video was found, they "always" thought it was a bad shooting. Had there not been video, even with witnesses, it would have been a justified shooting. They all are. Except when there's video. Then, they are unjustified. But only then.

      But bringing up the police gets people with all sorts of unrelated opinions to latch onto unrelated items. So to avoid problems with that, you might as well use robbers, or the mob as an example of self-policing.

    12. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The NSA, CIA, and FBI aren't intended to be criminal organizations. They were built to help the people of the US. The hope of the public at large is that this draws honorable people to those organizations, and that at worst, only a few bad apples will exist.

      I really wish people would stop using this expression.

      Have you ever left a bad apple in a bunch of apples? If you had, you'd know exactly what happens: the whole bunch turns bad very quickly. That's where the expression came from, and that's why it's invalid to say "only a few bad apples": there is no such thing as a few bad apples!!! When you have a bad apple, whether it's an apple or a cop in a police department, unless it's removed quickly, pretty soon they're all bad. Which is why the expression is apt for police, except that everyone keeps forgetting about what really happens with bad apples. Does no one keep bunches of apples any more?

    13. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter who watches them, they're all corrupt.
      And your government doesn't give a shit about you.

    14. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sure that a lot of French and Russian people thought that "mob "justice"" wouldn't be dangerous to them, but that didn't really turn out to be the case. See: French Revolution (1789), Russian Revolution (1917).

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    15. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by NormalVisual · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The hope of the public at large is that this draws honorable people to those organizations, and that at worst, only a few bad apples will exist. In this environment, self inspection and whistleblowing works.

      Except for the fact that it doesn't. There are plenty of "honorable" people that believe the ends justify the means, and I believe that's largely what we have here. Too many people think that peoples' safety is more important than their freedom, and it's acceptable to break the law "if it saves the life of just one child".

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    16. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Official investigations are quietly under way

      The keyword there is quietly. Condemnation of critics is loud. Affirmation of critics is quiet.

    17. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Specifically, the complete saying is:
                A few bad apples spoil the bunch.

      This is hard earned folk wisdom and it's already been forgotten by most people--they only know HALF of it!

    18. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with wars is that they come home. We've raised multiple generations to become ruthless in order to fight massive wars, and then act surprised when they treat offices, newspapers, churches, and courtrooms as battlefields, and judges, legislators, and citizens as enemies or collateral. When you are raised to be a hammer, every person that gets in your way is a nail. That's what the "team player" nonsense is all about---the US isn't the team they're talking about.

    19. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CIA, huh? Ever heard of Operation Paperclip? Prescott Bush? Do some digging, the information has been available since 1998 if not earlier. It wasn't only Werner Von Braun that we recruited after the war . . .

    20. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Dantoo · · Score: 0

      Apples bushel together, grapes and bananas bunch. I don't altogether trust the wisdom of old folk.

    21. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I am into patience and traps. Tweaking and adjusting the system, leading the establishment by it's nose until it drives itself into traps. Piece by piece, no rush, a lot of bad steps to get here and a lot of good steps required to get back. Look at the US democrat campaign, forcing the establishment into error after, error exposing more and more corruption, enabling each piece of it to be tackled and eliminated one by one. So it goes for the rest, forcing errors, exposing crime, working together, providing support, not trying to win everything yesterday but working, grinding away at the corruption so as to create a better future for the next generation rather than the worse one that was handed to our generation by lead addled - 'Fuckwits'. No riots, no mobs, no wars, just a piece by dirty stinking rotten piece dismantled ending the corruption, an effort that will take the rest of our lives and that will be needed to be continued by future generations. Not trying to win for ourselves now but trying to create a better future for all future generations. Of course having fun along the way, fucking up the plans of the corrupt and exposing them to public justice in a public court and an extended rehabilitory custodial sentences, is also really cool. We can not rely on government to protect whistle blowers, that is something we must unite on and do ourselves when ever we are in a position to do so. Protecting whistle blowers has always been a collective effort, not reliant upon government but in opposition to government. Uncle Tom Obama the choom gang coward, talked big about whistle blowers but his action demonstrated the exact opposite, an ugly desire to public persecute and destroy whistle blowers, including extreme violence, sexual humiliation and emphatic public denial of a fair trial, what a douche.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    22. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It looks like the system was pretty much working until some people high up in the system broke the rules, and now they will probably go to jail, as they should.

      That sounds very much like the typical scapegoat technique. Find a few heads, doesn't really matter too much who they are, and let them roll. Make sure this it publicized widely and touted as a big cleansing.

      Then go back to business as usual.

      As almost always.

      You would like that, wouldn't you, coldfjord?

      I mean, your whole post reeks of playing along with just that precise narrative. As it almost always does with you, I should say, unfortunately.

    23. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh it does. No way you pay FBI agents to monitor a Quaker organized anti-war meeting if you're not running COINTELPRO.

    24. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      There was no Russian revolution (1917), there were the February revolution and the October revolution. And at least the first one was absolutely overdue.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    25. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > punishment for the criminals by a mob

      What's this obsession with punishment? Why not just strive to curb that mis-behavior? I don't need the "criminals" to be in "jail". I prefer the crimes not to be comitted.

      Of course, if there's enough reason to assume that someone is going to repeat some atrocity, some form of restraint (aka jail) might be deemed approoriate. But not as revenge.

      Eye-for-eye-for-eye we end up all blind!

    26. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

      because they were breaking the law for a "good cause" [wikipedia.org], they were allowed to get away with it by both Democrat and Republican administrations

      No, they got away with it because Hoover and his minions had dirt on every president since Calvin Coolidge. JFK and RFK despised him, but they didn't dare make a move against him.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    27. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Whibla · · Score: 1

      tbf the original saying, as I heard it was "One rotten apple will spoil the entire barrel".

      Paraphrasing is like playing a game of chinese whispers with a group of beat poets.

    28. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      "Russian Revolution" is the collective term for a pair of revolutions in Russia in 1917, which dismantled the Tsarist autocracy and led to the eventual rise of the Soviet Union. -- Russian Revolution

      1917 Russian Revolution
      Russian Revolution of 1917

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    29. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      That sounds very much like the typical scapegoat technique. Find a few heads, doesn't really matter too much who they are, and let them roll. Make sure this it publicized widely and touted as a big cleansing.

      It's not "scapegoating" if they are the ones that really broke the law in a major fashion leading to major consequences, is it? So yes, it really does matter who they are and what they did.

      As to the rest of your post I agree that it is unfortunate, and probably not the only post you've made that I would find unfortunate.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    30. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >They were built to help the people of the US.
      The trouble is that it is very easy for good ideas to get turned to nefarious purposes, and this is doubly true of wartime ideas when peace comes. The CIA was born out of the wartime OSS. Not so very long after that, JFK disbanded the CIA as he recognized the threat of having such an organisation outside of the war. During the war the enemy was clear, the need was clear -and the risks of what would happen if they failed kept them focused on the right stuff. Outside the war - the combination of power and secrecy was a deadly threat.
      Of course, in one of his very first acts in office, LBJ undid that and reinstated the CIA. This bit of history is revealing - and it's part of the reason why JFK's death has been the subject of so many conspiracy theories, there were just too many people who stood to lose power and privilege as a result of him disbanding the CIA. I don't know if there's any truth to any of them (real conspiracies do happen after all, but most conspiracy theories are bullshit) but I can see how this confluence of events would inspire suspicions.

      Either way - JFK's reasoning for disbanding the CIA was solid. There was no reason for the CIA to exist in peacetime - even with the cold war ongoing. The same could be said of the NSA.
      The FBI, not being military was a lesser threat and I would argue has actually improved over time. Hoover's FBI had files on *everybody* today's FBI is a lot more restrained. You could argue it should be even moreso, or maybe even that it should not exist, but it's the one case where the trend seems to have been towards greater transparency and less intrusive behavior - perhaps because the FBI's very mandate is to deal with citizens, they operate more in the public eye and under public scrutiny. Their targets also get a day in court where flagrant 4th amendment violations are case-losers. Instead, you see a different kind of corruption there - like FBI lab-techs flagrantly lying to courts over the strength of DNA evidence for example.

      In all cases, government organisations ought to be kept tightly focused and face real and serious repercussions for bad behavior, in some cases (like a wartime intelligence operation) these can come from circumstances, in the rest it must be written into legislation... and some of them should never exist.

      I wonder sometimes, how much better a country the USA would not be, if defense budget was cut to 1/6th of what it is (which would still be 3 times bigger than any other country) - and that money spent instead on scientific research and the social safety net (which in total amounts to less than 0.05% percent of government spending yet we are constantly told is unaffordable).

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    31. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apples bushel together, grapes and bananas bunch.

      A bushel is a unit of volume. A 'bushel of apples' refers to a box of picked apples. The olde timey phrase refers to a 'barrel of apples,' because that's how they were stored and shipped. A bunch of grapes refers to be biological growth of grapes in clusters. Bananas also grow in biological clusters, but those clusters are called 'hands.'

      In any case, the spoilage of apples really only happens after they're picked and stored together, especially in an airtight space where the ethylene can concentrate.

    32. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And we realize that anarchists like you are the greatest threat to freedom in the US and worldwide. You'd destroy civilization to watch it all burn, and then go off with doe. Feel good bullshit that we've seen destroy societies a dozen times in the last 20 years. Go fuck yourself.

    33. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by tburkhol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not "scapegoating" if they are the ones that really broke the law in a major fashion leading to major consequences, is it? So yes, it really does matter who they are and what they did.

      I think the point of this story is that you will never know which ones really broke the law. You will only have a good story about laws broken, and people within the organization can manipulate the release of information in order to assure that they choose the identity of the criminals. Treasonous spies within the organization who leak state secrets and endanger the lives of committed service men and women overseas. People like John Crane and Thomas Drake.

      Maybe, with electronic distribution of vast data troves, we are beginning to see those whistleblowers find a public voice. Still, 53% of Americans think Snowden should face charges. Only 30% think he should be pardoned or avoid prosecution. Snowden has been pretty well defined as the person who broke the law in a major fashion.

      Meanwhile, even within his documentation, the identities of actual decision makers who set all of the excesses in motion are fuzzy. They're gradual, creeping extensions, with no one person to point at and decry as evil. And there is not such a person: the nature of a bureaucracy is to obscure and protect the individual. So, even if the organization has to sacrifice some loyal soldiers, the selection of those individuals is largely arbitrary and constructed from and for propaganda.

    34. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Salgak1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      How did the agencies get that way ?

      The most likely answer, is Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.

      To wit:

      Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people":

                First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

              Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

      The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

    35. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Help the people, are you 5. They were put in place to help those in power remain in power. To keep the top 1/10% in their respective positions. The state has never and will never exist for those they subjugate. It is a fantasy, that needs to be put to rest. Fear, from the underclass, is all that keeps those at the top in check.

    36. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by NotDrWho · · Score: 5, Informative

      It still saddens me deeply that a majority of people assume that it's only the governments of OTHER countries that are doing horrible, horrible things. I want to take everyone who has ever said "No, the U.S. government would never do something like that" and put them in a room and force them to watch documentaries on the CIA and all the horrific shit they did, and are still doing, in South America and many other regions. And they did it all with our tax money. And they're STILL DOING IT, right now.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    37. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to take everyone who has ever said "No, the U.S. government would never do something like that" and put them in a room and force them to watch documentaries on the CIA and all the horrific shit they did, and are still doing,

      I want to take everyone who has ever said "No, the U.S. government would never do something like that" and put them in a room and waterboard them.

      After all, it's not like we'd be torturing them, is it?

    38. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You replied to the wrong person.

    39. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a Rothschild financed and run bloody "revolution" in Russian empire. The civil war lasted from 1917-1922.

    40. Re:Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That colf fjord person is the same type that worked in soviet NKVD prison dungeons.
      You know, ice cold heart, life-strangling hands, but the eyes are oh so "friendly"

    41. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      JFK is said to have been in the process of trying to make the U.S. a Democracy, or at least get rid of the Military Industrial Complex Police Force.
        Kennedy had promised to âoeshatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter the remnants to the wind.â
      Apparently, The CIA found out and put a bullet in the brains of him and RFK.

    42. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by bigpat · · Score: 2

      because they were breaking the law for a "good cause" [wikipedia.org], they were allowed to get away with it by both Democrat and Republican administrations

      No, they got away with it because Hoover and his minions had dirt on every president since Calvin Coolidge. JFK and RFK despised him, but they didn't dare make a move against him.

      -jcr

      So did the press and they sat on that information. Truth is that the powers that be valued the dirt that Hoover could dig up more than they cared about the dirt he had on them. Not saying that it wasn't partly defensive, but Hoover stayed in power because he helped those in power.

      Just as today those in power care much more about the information that the NSA and FBI can provide than they care about whether it was obtained legally.

    43. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FBI corruption in Boston is so bad that the FBI goes after any former agents that talk about it. For instance, former agent Robert Fitzpatrick was clearly targeted for retribution after he testified about the well known and widely reported FBI corruption in the Whitey Bulger trial.

      While the guy in charge, John Morris, who reportedly pocketed bribes from Whitey Bulger to stay protected as an "FBI informant" and hosted regular dinners for the mass murderer and obstructed justice to keep Bulger out of jail was himself given immunity from prosecution for testimony, testimony that they really didn't need.

      In Boston, the FBI was the mob in the 1970s and 1980s and there is no reason to think the FBI isn't still a criminal organization today.

    44. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It still saddens me deeply that a majority of people assume that it's only the governments of OTHER countries that are doing horrible, horrible things."

      Certainly you must mean a majority of ignorant brainwashed Americans.

      I don't think the rest of us are under any such illusions.

    45. Re: Who will watch the watchers? by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

      Sadly, many non-Americans are in denial about what THEIR governments are doing too.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  2. Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When TPTB strikes, they make sure they cover everything

    Not only they throw the book on the whistleblowers, they also make sure that those patriotic whistleblowers get their reputation totally ruined by releasing their 'wu mao' teams astroturfing their propaganda at online forum, such as this one on /. calling the whistleblowers 'traitors' and such

    What TPTB of the United States of America is doing is getting closer and closer to that of the Chinese Communist regime

    I came from China, I know how terrible fascism is, and unfortunately I am seeing the same thing happens here, more and more

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re: Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello great taco lord that has traveled many miles to get here, could I have your opinion on black operations/ufos?

      Do you believe that there are multicolored orbs and triangles and various craft or alien life forms or the government is using hyrbid technology and supressing free energy because it would deviate the world economy/cause mass panic?

      Serious question.

      I've been pro and anti aliens-at-earth-nowish but the more research I do I am left convinced that at least some of the footage or sightings are genuine "WTF's".

    2. Re:Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny I don't recall the US government instituting a firewall to limit it's citizens access to the internet. The Chinese leadership has more in common with a corporate executive board than they do any type of government. The Chinese leadership are also some of the richest people on the planet. The only people living a communist lifestyle are the peasants. As it stands one of the US's most successful foreign operations against a foreign adversary was pushing China into a market economy starting way back in 1972. Ever since then the US and China have both benefitted from that change. However, China is more dependent on US goodwill than the US is dependent on China. And all the hype about China holding US debt instruments is overblown. 95% of US debt is held by the US treasury. The remaining 5% is spread out between countries and individuals. Foreign countries invest in US Treasury bonds and Securities because they are one of the safest investments on the planet. If some type of war sprung up between the US and China all their investments would be frozen. Just look at Iran's current problems to see what a hostil US government can do to your cash flow. China is not self sufficient for energy or food. Their largest import from the US is food. China is dependent on oil from the ME and have reaped the rewards of the US playing watchdog over the oil trade. That particular practice needs to be stopped. The US does not need any oil from that region. China does not produce a single thing that the US could not get elsewhere or produce domestically. Their economy was based entirely on cheap labor and there are now other countries who can do the same thing and companies can operate without an overbearing government dictating how you run your business. (Look up why Google closed down their offices in China) Their military has been growing but they are no where near the capabilities of the US military.

    3. Re:Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because they aren't doing *everything* the Chinese are doing to their people, doesn't mean they aren't doing *some* of those things. Wait, I'm reading your whole post again, and you clearly don't understand the reference to fascism.

      Please come back when you learn to grok English. Oh wait - you might just be an astroturfer yourself.

    4. Re: Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, what a horrible hollow and transparent ad hominem attack. Sounds like Taco Cowboy hit a nerve and the shills have come out to attack the dangerous ideas that could expose you.

      Pathetic.

    5. Re:Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Taco said was ..

      What TPTB of the United States of America is doing is getting closer and closer to that of the Chinese Communist regime.

      He didn't literally say that the US is the SAME as the Chinese government but are moving towards totalitarian control. And he's right.

    6. Re:Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      No need for a firewall when they can just record everything, keep it indefinitely, and trawl the data at their leisure to find dirt on someone when the need arises. Everyone has dirt somewhere, they just have to look close enough.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    7. Re: Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taco Cowboy is correct.
      I lived in CCCP so I seen thet socialist hellhole, and USA is going on the same route.

      Remember, cocialism destroys everithing it touches.
      It cant produce nothing, becouse state central management is incapable of doing innovative work and things. It is good at only one thing - paranoia.

    8. Re:Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent poster is correct - the US government may not have a firewall (yet), but it's pretty obvious there are a lot of 50 cent party members here as well.

    9. Re: Not to mention astroturfing their propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the USA, our censor is apathy. XD

  3. They brought Snowden on themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what a lot of people don't get. Snowden had only two real choices: Go outside the system to reveal injustice, or keep his mouth shut.

    The whole whistle-blower problem was brought to our attention decades ago. The powers that be promised "whistle blower protection". Some people accepted that... and still got screwed.

    Snowden had to have know the history of all that. He knew he had two choices. Be a mobster, or turn "states evidence" to the only state that won't screw him: The public at large.

    1. Re:They brought Snowden on themselves by BradMajors · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope. Snowden was not an employee he had no "whistle blower protection".

    2. Re:They brought Snowden on themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why dont contractors get that protection then? Whats that, its a backdoor to keep their dirty secrets dirty and its not right so we shouldnt defend it?

      Glad you see things my way.

  4. 1% illuminati triangle craft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once again thanks to the "free press" we learn, yet again, that the government and elite live by one set of rules, and the rest of us live by another kind.

    Shit like this makes me BELIEVE more in conspiracy theorys.

    1. Re: 1% illuminati triangle craft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet most of you will still vote for Clinton or Trump. This kind of behavior by these agencies is now the establishment. Hillary has done nothing to stop it, and you can bet that Trump would go out his way to encourage it. The only way we will change the way this country operates is to stop. electing. bad. leaders.

    2. Re: 1% illuminati triangle craft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair enough, but I don't think that's going to happen without a revolution. And the government is very paranoid about anyone thinking about that for obvious reasons. As long as people believe that the third party vote "doesn't matter" your going to be hard pressed to convince a majority of people and deligates for that matter to "throw away their vote" when you have to decide between women's rights/some sanity vs Trump Nation.exe

    3. Re: 1% illuminati triangle craft by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Here's the problem:
      A two-person election in November, Hillary will almost certainly win. Indeed, if history is anything to go by - it will be a massive landslide - every time Republicans have nominated an angry demagogue like Trump in the past the democrats got a landslide victory (see Barry Goldwater for example).

      But if it's a three person election - then Trump may very well win, regardless who the third person is. Lets say Bernie Sanders decides to run as an independent. While he lost on maths, the man got a LOT of votes, and even in the states where lost his margins were narrow. One could easily see him taking several states that would otherwise have gone to Hillary, and just one or two states could make all the difference. I would prefer Bernie over Hillary but right now I hope he drops out after the convention - because if he runs then Trump wins.
      Now what if say Kassich or Rubio runs ? You know, classic establishment republicans ? Well the landslide is definitely off the the table - since a lot of the independents who will gladly choose Hillary over Trump would not choose either over Kassich or Rubio. That would take votes from both of them - and the maths will get very complicated. It's unlikely this mainstream republican candidate could win but which of the other two does is suddenly a gamble, and Trump's odds look a lot better.
      Okay, what if we one of the republican crazies ran ? Cruz or Paul maybe ? Well the trouble with those guys are - they always only appealed to the same brand of wingnuts that Trump drew... and he is better at it than they are. But a lot of independents will, yet again, choose their brand of crazy over Hillary - and that may be enough to give Trump a victory.

      That's the problem right now - you got the republicans having gone full retard and nominated a man whose speeches are identical to those of fascist leaders and nazi's through the ages - but the democrats responded by nominating the woman with the worst unfavorables in years. Trump is probably the only candidate in history so terrible that Hillary could beat him (I don't think she could have won against either McCain or Romney... well maybe McCain if he had kept Palin). But that ability to beat him utterly depends on a two-candidate race. Any third candidate who splits the vote and the orangutang son of the NAZI gets the nuclear launch codes.

      This pattern has been prevalent for a while. Quite a few candidates have lost because a third-party got just enough votes they would otherwise have gotten to cost them a win (Gore for example). But I think this is the most stark example ever.
      So the question is, how badly do you NOT want a world where Goldwater won ? Can you imagine if that froth at the mouth lunatic had been president during the Bay of Pigs ? When the world was on the verge of a nuclear war, most of the credit for it not happening came down to a president who managed to keep his cool. JFK earned respect that day. Trump is the goldwater of our generation and make no mistake, there will be Bay of Pigs like events in the next 8 years, there always is... when they come, you need somebody making the calls who is known for acting calmly and keeping his cool and making careful, calculated decisions. You do not want an angry demagogue who never thinks before he speaks, let alone acts.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    4. Re: 1% illuminati triangle craft by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Hillary will almost certainly win

      I'll see your manpig and raise you an angry mullet.

  5. Would be nice if it shut up the snark by rbrander · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but I have few hopes it will. It would be nice if those who utter all that stuff about:

    * "real heroes don't run away to hide behind foreign powers"

    * "he's a coward for not standing on his rights and facing justice"

    * "he should have worked through the system and not broken the law, he's a criminal" ...would now shut up and even apologize. When the entity you are blowing the whistle on, itself breaks the law - fraudulently and unlawfully uses the colour of authority to protect itself from embarrassment rather than serving the public trust - then you can no longer depend on the justice system. They have more access to its levers than the whistleblower, so the justice system is not neutral, not blind, in his case.

    They are captured, in effect, by the prestige of the institution, and the numbers. What is the court supposed to believe about a complex internal matter, the one whistleblower, or the Secretary, three Undersecretaries, four generals and five lawyers, all insisting that you are a crazed, grudge-bearing criminal?

    Nothing prevents a large bureaucracy from abusing the simple fact that courts trust them, except the bureaucracy's own members' obedience to the law and fear of eventual exposure. That works, mostly, for the local Roads department, or even the State environmental department. With the NSA, it will never, ever happen; the NSA brass need fear no exposure, ever. Clapper's brazen perjury before Congress (without consequences) is proof that Snowden had to run.

    1. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Clapper's brazen perjury before Congress..."

      Except that it wasn't perjury. As a matter of course, high-ranking officials are not sworn in when testifying before Congress because -I shit you not- forcing them to open themselves up to perjury charges would "impugn their honor and integrity". #workingasintendedimsure

    2. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. Had Snowden stayed and tried to "work through the system," nobody would have ever heard of him or of the revelations he brought to light. He would have been hushed up and then arrested on some trumped up charges. This would not only scare off other whistle blowers, but would seed doubt in the minds of anyone who actually did hear what he had to say.

      Snowden gave up his life in America along with any chance to see his family and friends ever again. (He shouldn't believe any claims of getting a "fair trial.") He risked being captured and imprisoned for life. All so he could tell the world about the NSA's illegal spying program. He's a hero in my book.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't have many heros.

      but I would count snowden as one.

      I hope the youth, today, grows up and thinks the same thing. it would be horrible if the authoritarian spin gets planted in the next generation's minds.

      a free internet will prevent that. oh right, this IS the issue; we are at risk of losing the free part (freedom) of the internet. it may very well be that we go all 1984 on ourselves and head down a darker path instead of fixing the problems.

      it could go either way. that's the scary part.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re: Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But how did Snowden know who to trust in Congress? How could he know which ones were honorable? Would we really even know about these quasi-legal programs if he went to congress??

    5. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see you "judiciously" left out the fact that the people high up in the DOD and DOD IG suspected of criminal misconduct in the retaliation and abuse against the whistle blowers are under investigation and stand a good chance of going to jail?

      Yeah, right, and I stand a good chance of winning the Powerball on Wednesday.

    6. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 2

      Sorry bub. But if you want a shred of credibility on NSA whistleblowing... or anything, really... you might try citing someone who's not a fox "news" propagandist and former George Bush staffer writing for a far-right-wing "think tank" that plays host to the ilk of Dick Cheney, Paul Ryan, and John Yoo.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    7. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is, in and of itself, proof positive that the system is rigged. The system either:

      1). Assumes that the high-ranking officials have honor and integrity (assumes facts not in evidence), or;

      2). Assumes that the high-ranking officials do not have honor and integrity and the system must be protected against their corruption, or;

      3). Assumes that honor and integrity are liabilities and must be suppressed.

      At any rate none of this matters. Clapper lied before Congress. This is, ipso facto, perjury, obstruction of the business of the state, and an indictable offence. If any non establishment Pooh-Bah does this they go to jail.

    8. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress already knew the truth of the matter, Clapper had briefed them in secret session.

      And how would you know this? And how could you prove this? And why shouldn't anyone else come to the conclusion that this is another flag waving fiction from the Team America: World Police?

      Wyden has a sworn responsibility to protect our nation’s secrets. Instead, he tried to force their disclosure in a public forum.

      He also has a sworn responsibility to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and to defend it from enemies, foreign and domestic.

    9. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      I see a list of people and sources that you don't like, but I don't see you provide any evidence whatsoever that anything in the post is wrong.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    10. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by jcr · · Score: 1

      people high up in the DOD and DOD IG suspected of criminal misconduct in the retaliation and abuse against the whistle blowers are under investigation and stand a good chance of going to jail?

      Give us one example, you lying, bootlicking piece of shit.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    11. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Give us one example, you lying, bootlicking piece of shit.

      -jcr

      I'll take pity on you and give you two sources:

      From the article (which you apparently didn't read):

      Crane filed a complaint against Shelley and Halbrooks, detailing many more alleged misdeeds than reported in this article. The Office of Special Counsel, the US agency charged with investigating such matters, concluded in March of 2016 that there was a “substantial likelihood” that Crane’s accusations were well-founded. The OSC’s choice of the term “substantial likelihood” was telling. It could have ruled there was merely a “reasonable belief” Crane’s charges were true, in which case no further action would have been required. By finding instead that there was a “substantial likelihood”, the OSC triggered a process that legally required secretary of defense Ashton Carter to organise a fresh investigation of Crane’s allegations. Because no federal agency is allowed to investigate itself, that inquiry is being conducted by the Justice Department.

      and ...

      Probe launched into Pentagon handling of NSA whistleblower evidence

      One other thing: Lazy, ignorant, and foul-mouthed is no way to go through life.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    12. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by jcr · · Score: 1

      Are either of those perps in jail?

      Try again, bootlicker.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    13. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides that it is an opinion piece that offers no evidence to back up its assertions?

      And everyone on that list should be shot out of a cannon into the sun. Hang out with evil motherfuckers and what you say gets tainted with that. Don't like it, dont hang out with the likes of Cheney.

    14. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      In the world outside your head, real investigations and prosecutions take time after a complaint has been filed, as opposed to imaginary investigations or poo flinging.

      You seem to have a shoe or boot fetish.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    15. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't trust a bush thug or fox news goon to truthfully tell me that the sun is hot and water is wet. Someone who's both? At that point he's got negative credibility. It's pretty much safe to assume that the truth is the exact opposite of everything he wrote.

    16. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect the majority of the public does not even know who Snowden is, nor do they care. The people that have heard about him rarely understand what he revealed and the implications of it. It is hard to explain the ramifications of the programs and how it relates to them when they do not understand how the technologies work. Instead, in their eyes, he is just a guy that revealed (and possibly sold) US secrets related to how it monitors foreign terrorists and, therefore, is a traitor. Maybe that will change after the Snowden movie is released... but I kind of doubt it.

    17. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll never admit that they were wrong and you were right. They won't even remember when you bring it up, because to them it's no big deal - they make statements like these all the time and it wasn't infuriating to them. Decades later when all is said and done, they'll claim they never could have known, that there were no "valid" warning signs. They'll say the evidence was too weak at the time and that you were still illogically "jumping to conclusions" even though you were right.

      These scum will never give you any validation - but maybe your grandchildren will, if you ignore the scum and do something about it now while you can.

    18. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      "people high up in the DOD and DOD IG suspected of criminal misconduct ... are under investigation and stand a good chance of going to jail?"

      LOL. No high ranking government officials are going to jail. As usual, the government will investigate itself and come to the conclusion that government did nothing wrong.

      Wyden's motives in questioning Clapper are entirely irrelevant. The whole point of questioning someone in such a hearing is so that the information is on record. It doesn't matter if Wyden knew the answer to his own question. Lying before Congress is a criminal offense. The fact that Clapper wasn't prosecuted further demonstrates the lawless nature of the government.

      "... false conclusions that the NSA was reading our emails and listening to our phone calls (which they are not)."

      Oh really? How did you happen to acquire that information? Aren't you committing some sort of offense by revealing the truth about the inner-workings of the NSA in a public forum? You're probably putting lives in danger by informing terrorists about the NSA's limitations.

    19. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeeees, it takes "time" and lots of "meetings" and lots of "evidence needs to be verified" and me must have a "commitee" with lots of "trustworthy people"
      And afterwards we may say that everithing must be "hush hush becouse of the "national secrets"" ...

    20. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Do you have any references or citations for that? I tried to search the quoted phrase, but nothing relevant comes up.

    21. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One other thing: Lazy, ignorant, and foul-mouthed is no way to go through life.

      Are you thinking about bettering your ways? Or are you getting suicidal?

    22. Re:Would be nice if it shut up the snark by jcr · · Score: 1

      If they ever do any time for their crimes, you'd have a point, but they won't and you know it.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  6. but this is all very well known. by nimbius · · Score: 4, Interesting
    disclaimer: chomsky adorns my mantle.
    in polite society its considered uncouth to execute your whistleblowers. Social execution, career execution, certainly. In this term the government already had what it wants from snowden and that is unconditional exile. Sure, having a warm body gives ample opportunity to crucify the enemy of your specific terms of freedom but if you already control major media outlets, so it doesnt matter what your enemy says. the NYT, CBS, NBC, you name it, they will all toe the line and kindly omit certain details if you ask them to avoid being 'unpatriotic' in your reporting.

    Morris also conceded that mental countermeasures to the polygraph are a "tough thing."

    much like countermeasures to the easter bunny are a "tough thing." the polygraph loses its mystic power once you expose it as firmly debunked pseudoscience in the realm of phrenology and tea leaf reading. The purpose of the test is to act as a chilling effect, nothing more.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re: but this is all very well known. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with being anti-semite?

    2. Re: but this is all very well known. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of it as a special kind of moral stupidity mixed with evil. It is a general marker for bad character, bad judgment, and often an inability to accept responsibility.

    3. Re:but this is all very well known. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no fan of Chomsky's, but to toss the anti-semite accusation at a guy named Avram Noah Chomsky, for whom anti-semitic attacks as a child were a well-known formative influence upon his social justice politics, is demagoguing of the worst kind.

      You do know that there are plenty of Jewish people (present company included) out there who do not support Zionism or the actions of Israel, right?

    4. Re: but this is all very well known. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of it as a special kind of moral stupidity mixed with evil. It is a general marker for bad character, bad judgment, and often an inability to accept responsibility.

      I think you are thinking of feminism.

    5. Re: but this is all very well known. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What moral stupidity? Being an anti-semite is a respectful political move.
      Considering that lots of sionist jews are being anti human and think about other humans as gentiles and goim.

    6. Re: but this is all very well known. by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Think of it as a special kind of moral stupidity mixed with evil. It is a general marker for bad character, bad judgment, and often an inability to accept responsibility.

      I'm beginning the think that a pro-Semite is all of those things! They certainly seem to be like the child abuse victim that grows up to abuse their own children.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  7. And not ONE of the families involved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the atrocity against our constitution, bill of rights, law and common decency have been executed for their crimes.

    Which is why these monsters will continue doing so, unimpeded, unchallenged.

  8. It's never quite been clear to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you blowing the whistle to alert others of a rape in progress, or are you blowing the whistle to get raped by the very personnel you are trying to cry out against?

    captcha: disguise

    1. Re:It's never quite been clear to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you dare to try the former, we'll ensure that everyone you love gets the latter.
      -Sincerely; US Law Enforcement

  9. Keep in mind the context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is 10 years ago. 2006. It's 5 or less years after the 911 attacks.

    Honestly, he got off easy. It doesn't pay the be the early bird whistle blower during a zealous military reaction from the US citizens AND the government.

    You guys have to face some realities here. Back in 2005 you could probably get 50% of people to agree that mass phone record collection to fight terrorist was necessary.

    Another hard truth is that the NSA overreach didn't actually do a lot of real life harm. It's nothing like reporting witnessing soldiers in Vietnam murdering civilians for sport. Even today people don't care much and that is quite predictable since you don't have evidence show how this program has harmed many Americans. You most just have examples of where people clearly broke the law and were punished too harshly. The Patriot Act was legal, keep in mind. The Supreme Court had multiple chances to rule on it and they didn't want to.

    You don't really have a case here other than unethical behavior and normal overreach of power of a legal system as defined by congress and the courts, legal enough. Everyday police abuse is much further reaching and important than this kind of stuff. We should strive to prioritize our interest and time on issues we feel need to be resolved.

    None of the NSA programs are top level priorities and for that matter nothing the DoD is even doing matters all that much. Top priorities for the US are corrupt election process, insane polarization, out of control health care costs. Even address Americans poor diet would be time better spent than worry about the NSA or DoD. All the wars and BS combined don't add up to even ONE YEAR of health care costs.. currently at 3.8 trillion.

    We should follow the money and focus on the most inefficient processes first.. simple and effective. The sad reality is that we by far number one at military and cutting funding to a market we do so well at is hard enough, no less the ease at which fearmongers can drum up support against cuts.

    Health care is hard enough because your fighting an industry moving 3.8 trillion per year and rising at about 10% a year. That's a network of corporations and businesses that wield more wealth than Germany or Russia. That's a dangerous amount of money at the worst and you should expect the hardest battle to reform health care that ANY nation has ever faced. No nation ever had even a multi trillion dollar health care industry before they reformed, no less almost 4 trillion.

    While the DoD doesn't offer a great return, it's not nearly as plush of a target as our bloated healthcare system. Nor does spending the political capital pay off as much as investing your time into voter reform.

    Snowden really hasn't change the people's opinion for the NSA or spying that much, the problem is that most whistleblowers are telling us things we already knew and did nothing about, like illegal torture, illegal prisons and illegal spying. Now that the 'need' for those thing has declined you're not going to have an easy time keep people's interest. which you barely had beyond the first couple weeks anyway.

  10. Pentagon officials in jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, right. You seem to forget who runs this country.

    Do you want a limo ride through Dealey Plaza?

  11. But a prominent civil liberties expert disapproves by TodoRojo · · Score: 3, Informative
  12. We're here my fellow Earthlings. by dbreeze · · Score: 1

    The corrupt are in all the institutions of power and influence. $ is worshiped above all else. Violence will near certainly be required to prevent global totalitarian rule by the Simon Bar Sinisters of the world. Most of you will love the velvet glove covering the steel hand that directs your lives from here out. Most of you will be happy to get your "mark" for the convenience, and look at those without one as a security risk. Almost nothing said by governments is to be believed. At this point it appears to be a case of just pulling back the curtain more on entrenched, institutionalized corruption globally than any "new thing" taking place.
    Anyone on this planet with a thorough knowledge of Holy Scriptures sees events converging miraculously. Judgment is coming. Repent while it's fashionable...

    --
    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    1. Re:We're here my fellow Earthlings. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord."

      holy scriptures are funny to read.

      (and yes, I do speak english.)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  13. The U.S government is CORRUPT and VIOLENT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I came from China, I know how terrible fascism is, and unfortunately I am seeing the same thing happens here, more and more"

    The U.S. government has killed an estimated 11,000,000 people since the end of the 2nd world war. Often contractor companies do the violence, or arrange more violence so that they can make more money and so the managers can get promotions. It's killing for profit.

    Why the Vietnam war? The CIA and Vietnam. "... from June, 1954 to June, 1963, that is, until two years after Dulles left office (August, 1961) the CIA was absolutely and exclusively dominant in creating and carrying out the policies which led eventually to the Vietnam War."

    "To the CIA too must go the credit for the creation of the secret police forces of Diemâ(TM)s brother Ngo Dinh Nhu which prevented dissent within Vietnam until it was too late to change things."

    The intention of the U.S. financial community to profit from corrupt practices was well known long before the crash in 2008. In the Berkshire Hathaway 2002 Annual Report (PDF), Warren Buffett said this on page 14: "I can assure you that the marking errors in the derivatives business have not been symmetrical. Almost invariably, they have favored either the trader who was eyeing a multi-million dollar bonus or the CEO who wanted to report impressive 'earnings' (or both). The bonuses were paid, and the CEO profited from his options. Only much later did shareholders learn that the reported earnings were a sham."

    The Iraq war made huge amounts of money for the Bush family and Dick Cheney: Cheney's Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War. That destruction will continue for decades: The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End.

  14. The REAL "criminal" here by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 4, Informative

    is obviously Lynne Halbrooks. She got a promotion for this...per TFA "had recently been named the principal deputy inspector general". She now works for the lobbying law firm of Holland & Knight. Seems like she's also involved in helping cover-up the leaked info about a SEAL team member involved in the making of the movie "Zero Dark Thirty". A true PARTIOT (ACT), all-around. Hopefully for her she's got her thirty pieces of silver stashed away outside of US jurisdiction.

  15. The outcome by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

    " if [Crane's] allegations are confirmed in court, they could put current and former senior Pentagon officials in jail. (Official investigations are quietly under way.)"

    And the official investigations will be quietly covered up.

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    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:The outcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, any indication that the investigators were going to find anything other than "Nothing to see here" and "Move Along" would net their families heavily armed visits by FBI agents, and a bevy of random invented crimes backed by classified evidence one cannot try to dispute.

    2. Re:The outcome by BradMajors · · Score: 0

      Obama's justice department never prosecutes senior members of his administration for criminal conduct. The only solution is to put Obama himself in jail.

    3. Re:The outcome by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      >Obama's justice department never prosecutes senior members of his administration for criminal conduct

      Except that nobody in this article is a senior member of his administration, in fact none of them are or were members of his administration at all. These events all occurred during the Bush years and these were senior members of Dubya's administration, not Obama's. A few of them were still employed there into the first year or two of Obama's first term but they all move along long ago. Halbrooks for example now works for a private lawfirm.

      We are talking about events that happened circa 2006, ten years ago, long before Obama under Bush and Cheney.

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      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    4. Re:The outcome by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      Except that nobody in this article is a senior member of his administration, in fact none of them are or were members of his administration at all. These events all occurred during the Bush years and these were senior members of Dubya's administration, not Obama's.
      We are talking about events that happened circa 2006, ten years ago, long before Obama under Bush and Cheney.

      Shhhhhhhhh, stop using facts to fuck up his "Blame Obama" narrative.

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      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:The outcome by SmokeyRobot · · Score: 1

      What article did you read because Thomas Drake was indicted in 2010 and Crane was forced to resign in 2013? The second half of this article all takes place during the Obama Administration. Granted the dropped charges on the eve of the trial could have come from the top or it could have been to save the embarrassment of the US government being exposed of this corruption in a court of law. Regardless if you inherit an employee or hire one yourself you are still responsible for their mistakes are you not? I don't think anyone is blaming Obama for this but he sure as hell could have put a stop to it as the leader of the Executive Branch of government which the DoD and Office of General Counsel fall under.

  16. US Workplace Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "If you're not out of the building within 15 minutes, the guards will punish you, throw you to the federal agents outside as a suspected terrorist and then we will go to your home and take all your stuff you filthy, traitorous stapler thief!"

  17. Yep. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Various dignitaries have publicly claimed that the NSA is acting responsibly, legally, and in the best interests of the people, and that Snowden caused harm. Stories such as these confute this propaganda.

    Here is an absolute that you can count on: the degree to which any agency operates without public accountability (and visibility) is the precise degree to which they are corrupt and harming the public.

  18. NSA = Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Terrorists, they frustrate me and they are against us. Being mad at them is like being mad at the people in the loony bin.

    The NSA is worse, they use secret terrorism , and they should know better.

    I consider the NSA a bigger evil then normal terrorism.

  19. never ever rely on whistleblower protections! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there are NO protections. you will always be hurt.

    wideband it anonymously. it's the only way to fly.

  20. Polygraphs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So we are still pretending these are real actual useful tools?

    1. Re:Polygraphs... by Udom · · Score: 1

      Polygraphs tests are built on junk science and their use should be prohibited. There are various other common tools in forensics that are in the same boat, incuding fingerprint analysis, police lineups, bite mark analysis, etc, etc. Many people have been wrongly convicted based on these thanks to the false belief the public holds that they are infallible.

  21. Re:But a prominent civil liberties expert disappro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think most "civil liberties experts" will publicly disapprove of Snowden after US government agents have told him what will happen otherwise.

  22. Polygraphs? Really?? by gsslay · · Score: 1

    Sweet Jesus, why don't they just get in a voodoo doctor to throw a few bones and cast a truth-spell?

    Is no-one at all concerned that the world's supposed technological leader has a military who believe in such bullshit? And everyone was amazed when other countries were found purchasing bogus explosive detectors. This is equally money spent on a fraud that does not do what it claims to do.

    1. Re: Polygraphs? Really?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They believe enough people are scared of the test for its cost to be effective as a "trust device"

      In reality it's a Scientologists E-Meter.

  23. Astroturfer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WHat I'd like to know: does the NSA use domestic astroturfers, or does it contract with the 50 Cent Party?

    I'm sure it's available for hire!

    1. Re:Astroturfer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NSA-CIA-FBI probably have their own "patriotic" clown squad to do the heroic "battle on the internets"

  24. Re:Fart by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 1

    No farting in the new world order!

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  25. Re:But a prominent civil liberties expert disappro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole article is based on a flawed premise. Just because intelligence committees authorized those programs it does not make them constitutional or legitimate in any way. Moron.

  26. Clinton 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clinton is a square shooter

  27. Now that I know Drake was involved... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I understand MUCH better now why he's worried about that Hotline Bling. It could only mean one thing.

  28. That's funny. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about those blocking "Terrorist" sites, TPB, internet gambling sites, child porn sites, and so on and so forth?

    Are they not firewalled????? Are they not WORSE than firewalled, since despite being legal in their country, the people running the sites will be chased by US provided bully boys paid for with "special status" treats.

    China, at least, has very little desire, nor ability, to prosecute you worldwide.

    If anything, the USA is WORSE than China. At least the Chinese government oppresses only their own people. Not everyone else.

  29. Voting for third parties by nickersonm · · Score: 2

    But if it's a three person election - then Trump may very well win, regardless who the third person is. Lets say Bernie Sanders decides to run as an independent. While he lost on maths, the man got a LOT of votes, and even in the states where lost his margins were narrow. One could easily see him taking several states that would otherwise have gone to Hillary, and just one or two states could make all the difference. I would prefer Bernie over Hillary but right now I hope he drops out after the convention - because if he runs then Trump wins.

    But would it be better to suffer four years under Trump, and then get a Democratic candidate that was closer to Sanders than Clinton? This is what those preferring to vote for the 'lesser of two evils', instead of the 'good, but unelectable' always miss: you can't push the party closest to your preferences closer to your preferences by voting for someone that's moving the party away from your preferences, even if the opposition is worse. You must be willing to lose in the short term to gain in the long term, or you'll just keep repeatedly losing in the short term while complaining that your vote doesn't matter. (not referring to the parent poster specifically)

    The Democrats, for example, have no reason to move further left if all Sanders supporters vote for Clinton - if that happens, then as they see it, Clinton satisfied everyone fine! Maybe the next candidate can be even further right to pick up some Republicans! Whereas if they lose the election because of Sanders, the next candidate will have to move further left to capture those people they lost the previous election.

    That's a bit simplified onto a single-axis system for the sake of example; at least some Sanders supporters would prefer Trump to Clinton. A two-axis system works better, but is less familiar to people.

  30. Cthulhu 2016, why vote for the lesser of 2 evils? by budgenator · · Score: 1

    Given the dismal approval ratings for both Trump and Clinton, a serious 3rd party is now a possibility. As a Libertarian leaning constitutional conservative, I have an innate distrust of the BIG THREE big Government, big business and big religion. If the Tea party didn't have the Evangelicals buried so far up their asses, they might turn into a real political party that I could support. On the other hand since Trump is 69 and Hildebeast is 68 and they are running for a job that turns calender years into dog years, who's running for Vice President may be most important.

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    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  31. Re:But a prominent civil liberties expert disappro by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    This guy is not a "civil liberties expert". Well, maybe he is, in a sense of how you work around them...