Tesla Co-Founder Says Hydrogen Fuel Cells Are a 'Scam' (electrek.co)

Marc Tarpenning, co-founder of Tesla, believes hydrogen fuel cells are a "scam". Tarpenning, who is not with Tesla anymore appeared on Internet History Podcast last week to outline a number of issues with hydrogen fuel cells. He said (via Electrek blog): If your goal is to reduce energy consumption, petrol or whatever resource, you want to use it as efficiently as possible. You don't want to pick something that consumes a lot for whatever reason, and hydrogen is uniquely bad. There's a saying in the auto industry that hydrogen is the future of transportation and always will be. It's a scam as far as I can tell because the energy equation is terrible. People will say that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but it's abundant out there in the universe not here. We live on a planet where hydrogen is super reactive -- it's bound up into everything. It's bound up into water, wood and everything else. They only way that you get hydrogen requires you to pour energy into it to break it from the chemical bonds. Electrolysis is the most common method. You put electricity in water and it separates it, but you are pouring energy in order to make hydrogen, and then you have to compress it and that takes energy, and then you have to transport it to wherever you actually need it, which is really difficult because hydrogen is much harder to work with than gasoline or even natural gas -- and natural gas is not that easy. And then you ultimately have to place it into a car where you'll have a very high-pressure vessel which offers its own safety issues -- and that's only to convert it back again to electricity to make the car go because hydrogen fuel cell cars are really electric cars. They just have an extraordinary bad battery.Here's the podcast.

Comments

Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[Anonymous Coward]

And a poor way at that. Cannot agree more with his assessment. I have been saying things like this for years, could never understand why people thought it was a great idea.

Re:Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

*People* never thought is was a good idea: oil and automotive executives do, because hydrogen maintains a gas station-style distribution network. That's why they try so hard to sell it to you.

They hate nothing more than people charging up at home, on their own terms, with the electricity provider of their choosing, possibly with their own solar.

Re:Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[rockmuelle]

Where are mod points when I need them???

This. This. This!

I remember talking with my grandfather years ago about the future of energy for cars. He's a EE who ran a telecom infrastructure company for years and always saw things from the infrastructure perspective. Whatever was least disruptive to the energy ecosystem as a whole was going to win. Given the entrenched players at every stage in the distribution chain, hydrogen made the most sense. Each industry segment would profit greatly from upgrading their infrastructure to support hydrogen while not having to abandon their place in the process.

Electric cars upend multiple industries - from oil services all the way to convenience stores. Change will be fought tooth-and-nail. I just hope Elon doesn't run out of cash before he's had a chance to force the issue on electric cars.

-Chris

Re:Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[ShanghaiBill]

What's to stop people from creating their own hydrogen at home?

Common sense. Conversion of electricity to hydrogen is only about 60% efficient, so you lose 40% right off the top. Then it takes more energy to compress it. If you store it in a metal hydride, that takes more energy, plus increases the weight by an order of magnitude. There are many more problems with hydrogen, such as metal embrittlement and permeability through almost anything.

Hydrogen fuel has mainly been pushed as greenwashing, or cynical phoney environmentalism designed to delay adoption of electric cars based on actual sensible technology like lithium batteries. This was most famously done by George W. Bush, to divert research from battery powered electric cars.

Re:Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[Mr D from 63]

Only the existing infrastructure really isn't suit for hydrogen storage and distribution. Not the pumps, nor the tanks, nor the transports. Its cheaper an easier to convert a gas station to a charging station than a hydrogen station.

The H2 vision is based more on the thought that batteries will not get to a successful range/charge/recharge/cost balance. Batteries are progressing but not yet to that point, but close enough to re-think H2. I've never thought H2 made any sense simply due to inefficiency of the entire process. Fuel cells in general are still only niche products even after tremendous investment in development for the last 20 years. However, if cheap enough hydrogen could be produced, we would see that niche grow to a bigger portion of the market.

Re:Hydogen is just a way to store energy

[mspohr]

So, where do you recharge your H2 vehicle on long trips?
I charge my Tesla at Superchargers which are already installed just about everywhere. Drive 3-4 hours, charge 30 minutes (usually ready for some food and a break by then), drive another 3-4 hours, repeat...
Tesla Model X can tow your boat (it has a 5000 lb rated hitch).

Nothing new here

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Hydrogen is an energy *vector*, not an energy source. The energy must come from somewhere - natural gas usually - and, as TFA's author points out, the efficiency of the entire chain from energy source to the wheels is quite insanely bad.