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FDA Approves First Implant Treatment For Opioid Addiction (bloomberg.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the first-of-its-kind dept.

An anonymous reader writes from a report via Bloomberg: The Food and Drug Administration cleared the first implant in the U.S. to treat heroin and opioid painkiller addictions. The product, Probuphine, may be used to treat addicts continuously for six months with the drug buprenorphine, according to a statement from the agency on Thursday. Titan Pharmaceuticals Inc. and partner Braeburn Pharmaceuticals are the two companies behind the implant and plan to bring it to the market just as Congress passed a bill aimed at addressing the opioid crisis. Buprenorphine differs from methadone in that it doesn't require a treatment program. Doctors can prescribe the implant to patients after they take a four-hour training program. The FDA rejected the implant in 2013 because the original dose that the companies proposed was too low to provide effective treatment. The companies decided to maintain the lower dose and attempt to gain approval by restricting use to patients who already were stable on such amounts. Meanwhile, employers are struggling to find workers who can pass a pre-employment drug test.

49 comments

  1. OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    So really, this is no different than treating nicotine addiction with more nicotine (ie. gums and patches, etc).

    There's a reason we don't treat alcoholics with whiskey.

    A real junky will rip that implant right out from under their skin, break it open, and shoot up the contents. If you think the fact this is implanted will prevent this, you have never had to deal with a heroin addict. They'd cut their skill open if that's where the implant is.

    1. Re:OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is completely different.

      In that case the pharmaceutical industry is profiting by providing a "solution" to problems caused by the tobacco industry. In this case the pharmaceutical industry is profiting by providing a "solution" to addiction problems caused by the pharmaceutical industry.

      If the "solution" isn't very effective and provides on-going sales - well, that's just a lucky side-effect.

    2. Re:OK by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 3, Informative

      The idea is to replace the drug of choice with a drug that will 1) not provide a high, and 2) reduce withdrawal symptoms.

      Treating nicotine addiction is a little different in that it usually means moving away from cigarettes (which contain addictive compounds other than nicotine). Gum and patches do not provide the other compounds. Gum/patches also don't inhibit getting pleasure from nicotine, so it is inferior to using a drug to reduce highs and withdrawals.

    3. Re:OK by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 5, Informative

      So really, this is no different than treating nicotine addiction with more nicotine (ie. gums and patches, etc).

      There's a reason we don't treat alcoholics with whiskey.

      Actually in some very rare cases you might do exactly that. Sudden alcohol cessation can have fatal consequences, even more dangerous than quitting opiates cold turkey.

    4. Re:OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Buperinophine doesn't prevent you from getting high, and you can ask the users of Suboxone about that. It is still possible to get high and feel good from buperinorphine which means even if you have this implant you can still get high and abuse it by taking additional buperinorphine. In terms of stopping withdrawal symptoms,bupe does it the same way heroin does it: By activating the mu-opioid receptor. That means when it comes time to remove the implant or when the dose starts to go down, the user WILL experience opioid withdrawal symptoms. The only thing bupe and methadone do is put off the withdrawal symptoms for a later time, but you still have to go through them.

      So in however many weeks or months when the implant starts to lose its effectiveness cravings will come back and the user will either need to get a new implant or deal with the cravings and withdrawal. There is absolutely no way around this (I can tell you this as someone who just finished opioid replacement therapy with methadone and then subutex and I'm going through withdrawal RIGHT NOW). Tapering is the only effective treatment in terms of alleviating withdrawal symptoms (beside from ibogaine).

      No matter what, the golden rule is this: If you take an opioid to stop opioid withdrawal, you WILL eventually have to go through withdrawal. You are just putting it off for now. Buprinorphine IS AN OPIOID. The comparison between nicotine replacement therapy and opioid replacement therapy is apt. Its not getting you off the addictive substance, its getting you off the harmful method of consumption (inhalation of smoke for tobacco and injection/use of impure heroin with opioids). You still have to do the hard work of getting clean and replacing the habits you had before with new ones that aren't related to drugs.

      To say that this is a treatment for addiction is absolute bullshit. This is just a maintenance drug, nothing more. It goes in the same category as Methadone and Suboxone: A drug to keep you addicted. That may sound tin-foil-hat but when you know there are more effective drugs that actually DO treat the addiction (like Ibogaine and its much safer analog, 18-methoxycoronaridine) you start to see the greed at work. Pharmaceutical companies can either make a product that cost them next to nothing, is already in use in the medical community, and provides a GUARANTEE that the patient WILL have to come back for more, its a home run. Its a license to print money. You have a drug that is highly addictive, and you are selling it to people as a way to get off some other highly addictive drug. Now lets look at 18-MC. It will cost those drug companies a good amount of money to bring it to market and they wont have a repeat customer. 18-MC, and ibogaine, have shown incredible efficacy in actually STOPPING addiction. Not calming it down, or pushing the withdrawal symptoms back, or maintaining. Ibogaine and 18-MC can full-on stop addiction right in its tracks. You stop craving, you don't have withdrawal symptoms, you are FREE of the drug. And its a single dose.


      I'm rambling now so I'll just summarize by saying this. This is not an anti-addiction treatment. Its a maintenance treatment, nothing more. Its a way for pharmaceutical companies to make money while saying they are doing something about the addictive drugs they make. There exists a drug that can actually, for realsies, "cure" addiction but since it won't make as much money they won't even consider it. The only way 18-MC even got a clinical trial was because it was also an effective treatment for leishmaniasis. If it wasn't for that, it would have NEVER been given a clinical trial.

    5. Re:OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      http://www.savanthwp.com/about...

    6. Re:OK by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's a reason we don't treat alcoholics with whiskey.

      I suspect it's not a very good reason or a reason whose motivation is derived from Calvinistic moral calculus.

      My friend's step mother is an alcoholic and has been through a half-dozen treatment programs, most of them in-patient programs and still hasn't stopped drinking.

      What if we just acknowledged that alcoholics drink, and instead of trying to foist abstinence we instead eliminated the shame associated with "failing" to become a teetotaler and instead put some effort into just getting their drinking down to less-destructive levels?

      There were at least two NYTimes articles about this kind of thing in the past year, including a Dutch program that gave chronic alcoholics jobs *and* beer, providing them with structure that got them into a productive life cycle but acknowledged that they could drink, too? From the looks of it, it appeared to be fairly successful. The key things seem to be getting into life patterns that provide meaning and teaching them to drink at levels that are much less destructive. Eliminating the shame associated with drinking seems to be important to this.

      From everything I've read, psychiatrists consider buprenorphine an extremely good treatment for opioid addiction. If getting opioid addicts on a stable maintenance dose and back into constructive life habits works for them, why couldn't something similar work for alcoholics?

      The relentless focus on total abstinence seems bizarre in comparison to, say, people with depression whom we *encourage* to take maintenance doses of anti-depressants without relentless shaming of those who can't "just get better" and stop taking them.

      It would not surprise me at all if we ever found out that some people are biologically susceptible to alcoholism or opioid addiction due to brain chemistry imbalances, just as some people are prone to depression for the same reasons.

    7. Re:OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think the fact this is implanted will prevent this, you have never had to deal with a junkie. They'd cut their skill open if that's where the implant is.

      TFTFY

      Not all junkies are addicts (most are). Not all addicts are junkies (about 15% are).

      Just because Big Pharma, the police, the government, and rehab/social workers want you to believe otherwise does not make it so.

      To be fair, why should Eli-Lilly have a monopoly over state funded medication (substitute addiction) for your entire fucking life. I don't know anyone who ever kicked methadone, maybe one day I'll meet someone who kicked bupro (in the meantime I'll give preference to people who get a life).

    8. Re:OK by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      There's a reason we don't treat alcoholics with whiskey.

      I suspect it's not a very good reason or a reason whose motivation is derived from Calvinistic moral calculus.

      This is interesting. I don't drink very much, so can't comment on that addiction, but I can attest to the puritanical attitudes that believe that feeling good is a sin. After some sports injuries and on opiates for a short time, I do recall the burst of euphoria involved. So I understand that some could become addicted. I didn't become addicted, as so many others didn't, so it is more an issue of personality/physical makeup?

      But our war on drugs has ruined more lives than the drugs themselves. What is worse, it creates a vehicle for people to make incredible sums of money and commit impressive amounts of violence. And doesn't do a damn thing about stopping access to the drugs.

      So while an alcoholic might function quite well on controlled amounts of ethanol - and they do, I know I've worked with some very capable and professional alcoholics who were better employees than most - and there is nothing that small doses of opiates do that will incapacitate you, the concept of controlled access makes for people who are more likely to be productive citizens, and less likely to become a ward of the state.

      What if we just acknowledged that alcoholics drink, and instead of trying to foist abstinence we instead eliminated the shame associated with "failing" to become a teetotaler and instead put some effort into just getting their drinking down to less-destructive levels?

      would be a very interesting experiment. Expect a huge pushback from the Women's Christian Temperance Union H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Mothers against Drunk Driving, who have exposed their inner core beliefs since largely achieving their initial goal.

      There were at least two NYTimes articles about this kind of thing in the past year, including a Dutch program that gave chronic alcoholics jobs *and* beer, providing them with structure that got them into a productive life cycle but acknowledged that they could drink, too? From the looks of it, it appeared to be fairly successful.

      There are some people who are going to be a problem, and will be on a self destructive course, perhaps not much at all can be done to treat them. But those might be outliers? Who knows - certainly worth a try.

      As well, one of the things I just recalled. My family was more European than American in my upbringing, and I had my tastes of beer and wine (usually watered down) as a child. So when I was in high school, and my friends were pretending to be adults, using the forbidden drink they could now sneak, I was largely meh, and thought them pretty ridiculous watching them stumble around and puke. It just wasn't something glamorous. But it worked.

      Today, Child protective services would have put me in foster care. All the while making more alcoholics.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:OK by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are some people who are going to be a problem, and will be on a self destructive course, perhaps not much at all can be done to treat them. But those might be outliers? Who knows - certainly worth a try.

      There's a whole combination of magical thinking clustered around the idea that only total sobriety is acceptable and that alternative solutions (like maintenance dosing or harm reduction) are judged by their failures instead of their successes.

      Total sobriety has a terrible track record of success, yet it is judged by its successes and viewed as a solution because of its adherence to the ideology of total sobriety. Maintenance dosing or harm reduction is at least as successful, but is judged for its failures and condemned for its acceptance of non-sobriety.

    10. Re:OK by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The treatment for drinking methanol (wood alcohol) is keep the patient drunk on ethanol until the methanol has been excreted by the kidneys, about 5 days.

      Which is how serious crazy sterno drinking drunks stay alive. They never ever sober up.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:OK by joeboomer628 · · Score: 1

      Addicts in recovery know that the only way to recover a useful life is to stop using drugs. This is best achieved by sitting down with other recovering addicts and discussing the methods they have found successful in reclaiming their lives and changing the behaviors that lead to self-destruction. The only one that can change addictive behavior is the addict him/herself. It is not easy and takes a long time. Medical and mental health professionals are useful in helping addicts with physical and mental issues associated with addiction, but they have no addiction cure yet. The good news is that this approach is widely available without charge. The only requirement is a desire to stop using.

      --
      JoeR
  2. Pft! Cheaper to just make percoset free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and the rest. Throw in a heaping helping of laxatives and that'll be it. Case solveded.

  3. "Buprenorphine differs from methadone in that it.. by fred911 · · Score: 1

    .. doesn't require a treatment program"

    Nope, just an "oil-change" every six months. Sounds like a great revenue generator for the manufacture.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  4. Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agonist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's a maintenance program that's a little less vulnerable to diversion. This exists for naltrexone already (an antagonist).

    Implanting opioids inside of people probably isn't the solution to the "opioid crisis" that you're looking for. In other news, opioid overdose deaths have fallen dramatically here since a medical marijuana program was established; might consider looking in to that, guys. You know, the drug that doesn't cause respiratory depression and can't be injected.

  5. The struggle for workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... ends with drug testing. Or grows exponentially if they test for alcohol, tobacco, and a litany of other legal mind-altering substances.

    1. Re:The struggle for workers by ruir · · Score: 1

      Or if instead of offering peanuts that only bring deadbeat people, they pay real salaries.

    2. Re:The struggle for workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This always cracks me up, reading about the struggle for workers, either IT workers, people passing drug tests, and so on. Here in the US, there are -tons- of unemployed people in every sector. If they are not employed more than "x" amount of time, they don't count in the government statistics, so even though people tout "full employment" in the economy, if I look at my FB friends list and friends of friends, there are a metric fuckton of people slapping gofundme pages up because they lost their job a while back, unemployment is running out and they are coming dangerously close to losing their possessions.

      Finding workers is easy. Want tech people? Put a listing on Indeed, Monster, and Linkedin, run interviews, hire. Or, like a good number US companies, run interviews, don't hire anyone because nobody is able to fulfill a secret requirement, go get your H-1B for $45k a year, and go reap the tax benefits (affirmative action considers H-1Bs minorities if they are from asia, H-1Bs don't count on payroll, etc.) Want people for other jobs? Want ad in local paper. You will have lines coming out the door. For example, when a local Wal-Mart opened up in my area, they had 1000 people in line for the jobs they had at the store.

      There is no such thing as "not enough workers" in the US. On the other hand is plenty of attempts to try to erode worker's rights, or get more foreign workers in to push wages down.

  6. Did anyone read/see A Clockwork Orange? by axewolf · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Well did you?

  7. Re:Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THC-O-Acetate and THC-O-Phosphate brah
    Easy to make at home (especially the Acetate) and water soluble.

  8. Methadone is all the addiction, none of the thrill by teslabox · · Score: 5, Informative

    The idea is to replace the drug of choice with a drug that will 1) not provide a high, and 2) reduce withdrawal symptoms.

    Opiate addicts are a little more functional on replacements than on heroin, but this is only because they don't have to worry about how they're going to "stay well". People can be functional heroin addicts if they don't have to worry about sourcing their next dose. In Chasing the Scream, Johann Hari says that some countries give the give their opiate addicts all the heroin they need, and provide a safe, supervised environment for use. Most addicts eventually age out of their addiction.

    I met a real drug addict about a year ago, but I didn't realize it at the time. She fluttered from topic to topic like a butterfly, and I said, to myself, "this woman is high as a kite..." She told me about going to the Methadone clinic every day. She gradually invited me into her world, and I learned that the methadone wasn't enough to fill the "holes in her soul". She supplemented her opiates with the street pharmacy's medicines.

    With my influence, by about six months she was doing much better. She quit methadone and alcohol cold-turkey. Then the mental health system got a hold of her, and it's been a real struggle ever since.

    Calling the mental health system "Psychiatric torture" is not fair to the suffering endured by people who've actually been tortured, but it precisely describes the hopelessness and futility endured by people who are "treated" with drugs that do not address any of the causes of their condition. "Psychiatric Abuse" will have to suffice.

    She got addicted to anxiety medications during her fifth mental hospital stay. She'd only wanted them as-needed, but they forced her to take that pill every day. Two weeks after she was released, she hatched a stupid plan to get through the benzodiazepine withdrawal. We got together the second night of her stupid plan, and had a little fight. She said that I didn't understand that she wasn't going to get addicted again, she just needed it so she could sleep. She said it was barely any heroin at all, and just to spite me, she prepared a second shot and did that too.

    When she revived, she was immediately terrified by the sudden presence of people in uniform. The firefighters should've followed protocol and taken her to the hospital, but I'd told them that she was already on court-ordered treatment, so they decided to just disappear into the night. After a few more minutes, the police decided they could leave too. The only evidence I have that anyone was there is the nebulizer used to squirt the anti-opiate drug into her nose.

    She did very well for the next two weeks. But I was 2 hours away, and she was left to take care of herself, with the added burden of having to take court-ordered anti-psychotic sedatives. She was back in the mental hospital about 5 weeks after her release from the fifth mental hospital stay.

    Psychiatrists must be trained to not care why their patients are in their care. They gave her a new anti-psychotic, but she was still quite delusional when she was released from her sixth mental hospitalization.

    By this point I'd obtained the drug that she actually needed. It worked exactly as I thought it would, I brought her to live closer to me, and she started to recover from her anti-psychotic-induced brain trauma. Her new psychiatric nurse initially wanted her to stay on the anti-psychotic sedative, but eventually realized the patient doesn't actually need to be permanently sedated.

    But she ran out of anxiety medication recently... Her new court-ordered-treatment provider said they didn't provide those drugs, so my friend went to source them from her old "friends". Street drugs are much easier to source than specific second-hand prescription medications.

    Street drugs caused her to become psychotic again. She would have come out o

  9. NOT AN ADDICTION TREATMENT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is NOT a treatment for addiction! This is merely a maintenance drug like Methadone and Subutex, just in a different delivery form. Here's a copy+paste of another reply I wrote:

    Buperinophine doesn't prevent you from getting high, and you can ask the users of Suboxone about that. It is still possible to get high and feel good from buperinorphine which means even if you have this implant you can still get high and abuse it by taking additional buperinorphine. In terms of stopping withdrawal symptoms,bupe does it the same way heroin does it: By activating the mu-opioid receptor. That means when it comes time to remove the implant or when the dose starts to go down, the user WILL experience opioid withdrawal symptoms. The only thing bupe and methadone do is put off the withdrawal symptoms for a later time, but you still have to go through them.

    So in however many weeks or months when the implant starts to lose its effectiveness cravings will come back and the user will either need to get a new implant or deal with the cravings and withdrawal. There is absolutely no way around this (I can tell you this as someone who just finished opioid replacement therapy with methadone and then subutex and I'm going through withdrawal RIGHT NOW). Tapering is the only effective treatment in terms of alleviating withdrawal symptoms (beside from ibogaine).

    No matter what, the golden rule is this: If you take an opioid to stop opioid withdrawal, you WILL eventually have to go through withdrawal. You are just putting it off for now. Buprinorphine IS AN OPIOID. The comparison between nicotine replacement therapy and opioid replacement therapy is apt. Its not getting you off the addictive substance, its getting you off the harmful method of consumption (inhalation of smoke for tobacco and injection/use of impure heroin with opioids). You still have to do the hard work of getting clean and replacing the habits you had before with new ones that aren't related to drugs.

    To say that this is a treatment for addiction is absolute bullshit. This is just a maintenance drug, nothing more. It goes in the same category as Methadone and Suboxone: A drug to keep you addicted. That may sound tin-foil-hat but when you know there are more effective drugs that actually DO treat the addiction (like Ibogaine and its much safer analog, 18-methoxycoronaridine) you start to see the greed at work. Pharmaceutical companies can either make a product that cost them next to nothing, is already in use in the medical community, and provides a GUARANTEE that the patient WILL have to come back for more, its a home run. Its a license to print money. You have a drug that is highly addictive, and you are selling it to people as a way to get off some other highly addictive drug. Now lets look at 18-MC. It will cost those drug companies a good amount of money to bring it to market and they wont have a repeat customer. 18-MC, and ibogaine, have shown incredible efficacy in actually STOPPING addiction. Not calming it down, or pushing the withdrawal symptoms back, or maintaining. Ibogaine and 18-MC can full-on stop addiction right in its tracks. You stop craving, you don't have withdrawal symptoms, you are FREE of the drug. And its a single dose.

    I'm rambling now so I'll just summarize by saying this. This is not an anti-addiction treatment. Its a maintenance treatment, nothing more. Its a way for pharmaceutical companies to make money while saying they are doing something about the addictive drugs they make. There exists a drug that can actually, for realsies, "cure" addiction but since it won't make as much money they won't even consider it. The only way 18-MC even got a clinical trial was because it was also an effective treatment for leishmaniasis. If it wasn't for that, it would have NEVER been given a clinical trial.

  10. Re:Methadone is all the addiction, none of the thr by Nehmo · · Score: 2

    I met a real drug addict about a year ago,

    I did heroin for many years. I was on methadone for years too. And now, for about 5 years, have been taking buprenorphine. There is so much written on the subject http://www.bluelight.org/vb/th..., I hesitate to add, particularly since I criticize people for tending to be long-winded on it. I currently have both Suboxone strips, for which placing under the tongue is the route of administration and Zubsolv, another formulation. I, personally, wouldn't like an implant, because you can't adjust your dose to suit the circumstances. I guess the advantage is convenience.

    --
    (||) Nehmo (||)
  11. There is no such thing as 'addiction' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read the books 'The myth of addiction' and 'Addiction is a choice'. People take drugs because their EMOTIONS make them feel bad, period. The drugs give them temporary respite from feelings of unhappiness, fear, anxiety, etc. That's it. This laughable drug is just Big Pharma saying "Don't buy drugs on the street, buy them from US, so we can profit and 'save you'!" It's laughable.

    1. Re: There is no such thing as 'addiction' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, no there is a real physical addiction that frequently occurs and real physical changes that occur at the receptor level. So nice try, but you are talking out of ignorance.

    2. Re: There is no such thing as 'addiction' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny, I didn't start or do opiates because they felt good or my emotions wanted them.

      I got addicted to opiates because the hospital staff spent 9 weeks pumping them into my IV.

      The agonizing tortuous pain resulting from them no longer doing that is also not a figment of my imagination or a lie.

      I almost sort of wish those withdraw pains on you, just for a short tiny couple of months, dangling opiates in your face that you know will stop the agony flat, just to see your hypocrisy as you beg for relief from the agony you keep claiming isn't in fact real... Just so I can blame your pain on your emotions.

  12. Re:Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agon by rtb61 · · Score: 2

    Just out of curiosity driven by this story and apart from getting to this very very suspicious site http://www.naabt.org/buprenorp... compared to this more realistic site http://www.streetinsider.com/C..., it seems like the drug and treatment might not be all it is cracked up to be. I'll bet before to long we will see lobbyists demanding it be compulsory for all opioid drug offenders, profit, profit, profit, you can really see it coming.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  13. Will we ever just invent smart recreational drugs? by swb · · Score: 2

    As much as society struggles with drug addiction, I'm surprised we haven't figured out that maybe the better solution is invent better recreational drugs. Drugs purposefully engineered to provide euphoria similar to street drugs, but engineered to limit the risks of overdose and abuse.

    Could they engineer a drug that provided a high with the first dose but for which subsequent doses had an exponentially decreasing marginal utility or which couldn't be taken again for any increase or new high until some hours had passed? Some of this may just be a question of formulation, with a dose of a time-release longer-life agonist that both eventually reduced the high and blocked any new high from happening.

    You can come up with a bunch of engineering goals that would allow for a person to take such drug and make abuse very difficult due to limited repeat use, lack of overdose potential, etc.

    The biggest part problem we seem to have with drugs is the relentless notion that taking any substance to enjoy a euphoria is wrong, leading us to just hang onto a whole panoply of drugs that have nasty side effects or risks. What if instead of continuing to fail to eliminate them, we simply out-competed the old drugs in the market by replacing them with better, cheaper safer drugs?

    I think legalizing marijuana is part of this, because it actually has a lot of the qualities of a better drug -- once you're stoned, it's less useful to smoke more pot while you're stoned and at a certain point more pot doesn't really make you more high. It has an extremely low overdose potential, is non-addictive and doesn't produce much in the way of chronic health problems (smoking aside).

  14. Re:Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Free drugs in unlimited supply for whoever wants them.

    Problems solved in 6-12 months.

  15. Re:Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    THC-O-Acetate and THC-O-Phosphate brah

    Easy to make at home (especially the Acetate) and water soluble.

    Moron! Firstly THC acetate ain't easy to make - unless you call purifying THC simple (in which case you've just described yourself - brah) - or maybe a little acetated cellulose ads a "rayon" edge to your buzz?. Acetic anhydride is a restricted chemical (and no brah, you can't just make it in the kitchen from vinegar) - spill a few drops and your neighbourhood will smell like a cat box for months. And finally, if you do manage to make some acetate - you better not give it to people with Diabetes, the side-effects aren't pretty (which is why responsible chemists don't cook it - we like to keep the customers).

  16. Ohhhh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Meanwhile, employers are struggling to find workers who can pass a pre-employment drug test.

    And that, children, is why employers like H1-B. Americans are just too damn high all the time.

  17. Get politicians out of health care by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

    It really concerns me that Congress thinks it knows better than doctors do and now want to "train" doctors how to prescribe opiod pain medications. In my state there's talk about restricting the amount a doctor can prescribe to three days worth.

    This issue hits particularly close to home, as I recently broke my foot and started taking opiod pain meds. If my doctor was prohibited from prescribing an adequate course of medication my pain would be undertreated. That's not OK with me.

    1. Re:Get politicians out of health care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 days is ridiculous in many cases and it's difficult and expensive for some people to get to a doctor or even just a pharmacy to get a refill.

      Having broken my foot several times that can hurt like hell, especially if it's untreated like the last couple of times.

      I didn't see a doctor for a few reasons but those were among them. I just limped around for weeks and tried not to put any unnecessary weight on them. Fortunately I could see it was improving even if slowly.

      I should have had at the very least a weeks worth of something.

      I mean besides pot and alcohol. I've heard plenty of people say pot is great for pain, but it has never helped any pain that I've ever had so at the very least it doesn't work for all pains in all people.

  18. its not hard to quit cold turkey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its not hard to quit cold turkey.

    1. Re:its not hard to quit cold turkey. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever been through fentanyl withdrawals? It's not fun.

  19. Re:Buprenorphine is a partial opioid receptor agon by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Been working on heated big bore needles for my plan to go IV on bacon grease and alfredo sauce, should work with hash oil.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  20. Yes, drug addicts can be stable Re:Stable? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Is there really such a thing as a stable drug addict?

    Yes, especially if "stability" means either "stable in recovery, very unlikely to relapse" (which may be "for life" for some addicts) or "recovered completely" (which is a realistic objective for some but not all addicts).

    I'm probably not the only /. poster who is "stable and recovered" from caffeine addiction: There was a time when my use was quite literally out of control. I really was an addict. I went through a period of not using it at all. Now I can - and do - drink caffeine-containing beverages responsibly and in moderation, but mainly because there is no decaffeinated version of my preferred beverage available. If I were always given the choice between that beverage and a decaf version of the same, I would almost always go with the decaf. Every now and then, I deliberately use caffeine to let me stay awake. However, if I know ahead of time that I need to be wide awake at my normal bedtime, I prefer to adjust my sleep schedule rather than relying on caffeine to keep me awake.

    Regarding being stable-and-recovered from narcotic addiction:

    A few decades ago, someone I knew was in a car wreck. He was in the hospital for many weeks. During that time, he developed a physical dependence on a particular narcotic painkiller. I don't think he became psychologically addicted though. In any case, he had to detox and from what his spouse said, he went through physical withdrawal. If my decades-old memory is correct, the detox and withdrawal were all done while he was in the hospital.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  21. I'm afrait to see it Re: ... A Clockwork Orange? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I'm afraid that I may become addicted to books/movies of that genre.

    Note - this may sound like a joke, but I know myself too well, I've become morbidly fascinated with unhealthy ideas from the written word before. For me at least, watching this film or reading the book is very likely unwise - I'm likely to enjoy it for all the wrong reasons. I've read synopses and reviews and that's enough to get the important social message, I don't need to read the book or see the film in all of its gory detail.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  22. Make all opioids OTC - no script needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Allow purchase of small quantities (daily use amounts) of any opioid - no script needed. Give people a regular source of good-quality dope. No more buying in an alleyway. Might save a few lives. Maybe reduce the spread of HCV and HIV. Hmmm. Just a thought.

    1. Re:Make all opioids OTC - no script needed by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      but then there's all that lost income to the DEA/local police/jails/politicians who are "tough on crime"/big pharma pumping out "solutions" like these.

  23. Mod parent up by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I've already posted in this thread or I would do it myself.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  24. I call BS Re:There is no such thing as 'addiction' by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Okay, I haven't read the books, but the only way you can say "there is no such thing as addiction" is to give some other name to

    "engaging in a behavior in a compulsive way, for reasons that cannot be explained otherwise (such as because the individual has OCD, or the individual has been taught/conditioned to engage in the behavior, or some other reason)"

    In some cases, addicts take a drug only because of a physical dependence and the desire to avoid withdrawal symptoms.

    In other cases, they may take them under doctor's orders and they may not realize they are addicts until the doctor tells them to stop.

    However, In most cases where physical dependency or medical advice isn't the reason to take the drug, addicts take drugs to feel better or to "escape" from dealing with the "bad things" of life. I assume this is what you meant when you said "People take drugs because their EMOTIONS make them feel bad, period." The same goes for most gambling addicts, sex addicts, and the like. This compulsion, driven by emotions, is a definition (but not the only definition) of a behavior addiction. So, unless we are going to come up with a new term for this, we have to admit that addictions - in the sense I just described - do exist.

    You can change the name if you want to, but it won't change the fact that there are people out there who compulsively engage in some behavior - be it gambling, drug use, or what not - because their emotions make them feel bad and the behavior makes them feel less bad and/or the behavior itself makes them feel good.

    With respect to opiate addicts who are also psychologically addicted to the drug, maintenance drugs like the one described here "buy time" for the addict to develop coping mechanisms and alternative ways to deal with the unpleasant aspects of life, so that when he finally does wean himself off of the maintenance drugs and go through withdrawal, he will be much less likely to relapse during withdrawal or later, after his detox is complete.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  25. Depends :) Re:its not hard to quit cold turkey. by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I quit cold turkey every year: In late November, I have cold turkey for several days in a row, but the Thanksgiving leftovers eventually run out so I quit. Yes, there are cravings, but they usually disappear after a day or two.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  26. Re:Will we ever just invent smart recreational dru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could they engineer a drug that provided a high with the first dose but for which subsequent doses had an exponentially decreasing marginal utility or which couldn't be taken again for any increase or new high until some hours had passed?

    You just described every drug out there. There is only so much dopamine in your body. That is the problem. Your first high is amazing. You then forever chase the dragon.

    I have been lucky with my wife who is a pill head (who started off as a pothead). We have her in a program with methadone. It took years of me being very patient and understanding to bring her around to 'drugs are bad mmmkay'.

    You do not wake up one day and say "i am going to be a drug addict". You wake up one day and you are one. Your first taste is usually something like pot. That was pretty sweet. Then its 'hey I have an extra percocet'. Thats not too bad when I use it with a bit o coke. In a few months you are 6-10 pills every 6 hours so you can function and not collapse from the cramps, fever, and sleep through the night. Then someone says 'hey heroin is cheaper than the pills and I know a guy who can get it'. Then you are a full blown addict.

    I got my wife into a program before the leap to heroin. She has finally after 10 years in that program come to accept that drugs are fucking up her life. Her friends are nice and all but many are fuckups too. Because they are too busy chasing drugs to bother with making their life any better. Which is kinda cool when you are 15. Not so cool when you are in your 40s and have 3 people depending on you.

    Many people never make the leap. But it is a dangerous thing. In a few years you are going to see skyrocketing addictions in Colorado. You will also see thousands of people who never go any further than a bit of a buzz on the weekends.

  27. what about psychological addiction? by CoderFool · · Score: 1

    This may treat the physical addiction, but what about the psychological one? If someone turns to these drugs for relief from stress, boredom, or loneliness, then this habit will remain even though the physical 'need ' isn't there. you got a substitute for that? how about a 'soul' patch?

  28. Interesting but will it work?! by Xman73x · · Score: 0

    To bad they didn't have this approved before Prince diedðYðY"ðY"