Ruby on Rails Creator Supports After-Work Email Bans (signalvnoise.com)

An anonymous reader writes: David Heinemeier Hansson, the creator of Ruby on Rails, is applauding talk of an after-work e-mail ban, writing that "the ever-expanding expectations for when someone is available have gotten out of hand... Work emails are ticking in at all sorts of odd hours and plenty of businesses are dysfunctional enough to believe they have a right to have those answered, whatever the hour. That's unhealthy, possibly even exploitative... Same goes for forcing everyone to work in an open office. The research is mounting on all the ills that come from persistent noise and interruptions from that arrangement."

While acknowledging that his firm's project management tool Basecamp has a "perfect storm" of features that can send emails and texts after hours, Hansson points out that at least version 3 (released in 2015) shipped with a scheduling feature that will hold notifications during weekends and other specified off-work periods. "What we need before we can even dream of having something like the French response is a change in attitudes. Less celebration of workaholism, more #WorkCanWait. More recognition that stress from unrealistic and unhealthy expectations and work habits is actually a real hazard to health and sanity."

Comments

Reasonable expectations.

[The Rizz]

As a business owner, I expect my employees to by reasonably available, even after hours.

What is reasonable? Well, if it's an emergency of some sort, I call or text them, depending on the immediacy. (Emergency being defined as anywhere from "someone's sick, can you cover a shift?" to "something's on fire".)

Anything below emergency I typically email and expect to be done when convenient - typically the next work day. If the employee checks their email after hours or on weekends, it's up to them if they want to take care of it right then (if it's something they can do from home), but I never expect it.

We have business hours for a reason. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not something I'd do while outside work, why would I expect that from my employees?

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[Anonymous Coward]

it's up to them if they want to take care of it right then

Tomorrow is fine. No pressure. Hopefully Tom down the hall doesn't get to it first - I have to make the decision on that promotion tonight.

Re: Reasonable expectations.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is if it becomes an expectation, by allowing employees to do it it sets off a competition between them, which is good for the employer, but bad for the employee who doesn't work extra hours. Someone will say its employees choice, but unless they are getting paid more for it, they could work the extra hours at their own business or another one and actually benefit from working more. So no, unpaid extra labour, even for salaried employee is not acceptable, it is bad for the employee, not the ideal situation for the economy, or worker happiness, and is a race to the bottom.

Emergencies are the exception Ofc.

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but it is just wrong to expect employees to be available outside of scheduled work hours! My time off of work is MY time, and an employer has no right to expect me to use any of that time for their benefit! I have been taken to task because I wouldn't cover someone else's shift on my day(s) off. I replied that I make plans with family and friends on my days off, and (mostly) I refuse to change those plans. My time outside of scheduled work hours is MINE! Many employers have for many years expected an employee's job to be their entire life. Sorry, my job is not the only thing in my life, and employers have no right to expect me to work non-scheduled hours, especially if I am not paid! Even if I am paid, I have the right to refuse, and also the right to be informed of schedule changes during regular work hours.

One more thing, far too many employers these days consider employees to be an easily replaceable commodity, one which is owed nothing in the way of consideration or loyalty of any kind!

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[The Rizz]

Sorry, but it is just wrong to expect employees to be available outside of scheduled work hours! My time off of work is MY time, and an employer has no right to expect me to use any of that time for their benefit!

...and here we have the flip side to selfishly unreasonable attitudes of bosses.

I have been taken to task because I wouldn't cover someone else's shift on my day(s) off. I replied that I make plans with family and friends on my days off, and (mostly) I refuse to change those plans.

If you've got plans and can't cover, then that's your prerogative. Perhaps what you've been "taken to task" for is your attitude, though? They way you've stated it here sounds like you're being overly confrontational when a simple, "sorry, I have plans" would have sufficed.

It sounds like it's definitely possible you're that asshole who always expects other people to cover for them, while resenting anyone expecting the same in return. When someone is sick, there's almost never anyone who is happy to come in on their day off, but people do it to help out the other employees. If nobody does, the business is short-staffed for the day, and those who are there are the ones who are the worse for it. Covering shifts is not done so much for the benefit of the business as it is done for the benefit of your co-workers.

My time outside of scheduled work hours is MINE! Many employers have for many years expected an employee's job to be their entire life. Sorry, my job is not the only thing in my life

It sounds like you've had bad experiences with employers. It sounds like you need to find better places to work.
(Unless, of course, your bad attitude is leading you to believe everywhere is oppressing you, in which case what you need to change is yourself.)

Even if I am paid, I have the right to refuse, and also the right to be informed of schedule changes during regular work hours.

Which is not always possible. Unplanned issues and emergencies come up, and reasonably accommodating those situations should be expected.

One more thing, far too many employers these days consider employees to be an easily replaceable commodity, one which is owed nothing in the way of consideration or loyalty of any kind!

On the flip side, far too many employees think their employers are owed no consideration or loyalty of any kind. This lack of trust and resentment comes from both directions, and is a serious problem whichever direction it comes from.

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[The Rizz]

And it's because of bosses like you that I don't give work my home email, nor would I EVER check work emails from home. I don't get paid to do that.

Since I said I never expect the email to be checked or responded to until the next work day, I'm not sure what your issue here is?

I wouldn't allow a boss to call me after work hours unless I was specifically contracted to provide after hours service and to be on call. [...] I promise not to masturbate at work during work hours, if you promise not to call me with business shit during my rest hours.

You "wouldn't allow" a boss to call you if an emergency came up? You equate being asked to cover someone's shift (a option you can accept or refuse as you wish) to be equivalent to masturbating at work?

I hate to tell you this, but you've got the exact shitty attitude of employees that mirror the attitudes of shitty bosses. You're completely self-centered and care only about yourself, and couldn't give a fuck about anyone else. Whether in a boss or a low-level employee, that attitude is precisely what makes a bad workplace.

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[TheGratefulNet]

You're completely self-centered and care only about yourself, and couldn't give a fuck about anyone else

classic case of pot calling kettle black.

in today's corp world, this perfectly defines how a COMPANY acts. they are spoiled little fucking brats who have too much of a labor pool to pick from and think the world revolves around THEM.

I find it precious that you try to turn it around. in the history of the modern age, life has NEVER been as good for companies as it is right now. they have everything on a golden platter and they lord it over us, pretty much constantly.

I have no idea what your work life is like. maybe you are rich and you are a business owner. I suspect you are or you are of the R persuasion who thinks that all roads lead to 'business should have all the say'.

or maybe you're a republican shill trying to shift the argument in your party's direction.

but its clear as crystal; this is the golden era for corportism and if a company wants something, THEY GET IT. they get laws passed as created by their PACs and the economy is so bad that no one dares talk back to the employer.

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[The Rizz]

Covering shifts is not done so much for the benefit of the business as it is done for the benefit of your co-workers.

Bullshit. Sure, things can be more hectic for an employee if people can't come in, but if the business weren't harmed by not having the specified number of people there, I'm pretty sure you'd find out that having 4 people instead of 5 there is suddenly "correct staffing levels" instead of being "short-staffed".

Untrue. Staffing levels are typically made for expected peak business requirements, and sanity levels of employees.

Let's use fast food restaurants as an example: If they decide they need 15 people for a shift, then odds are they "only really need" 12-13. But then what happens when you have a day with 15-20% higher customer levels? The customer gets worse service than expected, leading to less repeat business, leading to worse long-term sales, which is why they schedule in the extra employees. Additionally, there are various types of prep work that are scheduled in for those employees to do each day that can be put off until later in situations of peak customer turnout. There's also the employee sanity levels to account for: At that 12-13 staff level, the employees are stretched thinner, their stress levels run higher, and they're more likely to make mistakes. If those mistakes cause extra work, this quickly compounds the issue. While this may be acceptable in the short run, it's a nightmare long-term as the employees hate their jobs, the work environment turns toxic, and it starts to effect customer service.

With this built-in staffing buffer, a short-staffed business's employees can deal with it for a few days before their stress levels get high enough to really affect their work. So yes, covering for a coworker is more for the coworkers' benefits than it is for the business's, as the problems short-staffing causes are felt by the employees immediately, but not by the business unless it lasts for a long enough time.

Re:Reasonable expectations.

[BlackHawk-666]

Since I said I never expect the email to be checked or responded to until the next work day, I'm not sure what your issue here is?

If there is no expectation of the email being attended to, then why are you posting it to the employee during outside of work hours. It's reasonable if you're working late or early and are taking care of your unattended business and posting it to the work email address. It's a whole other kettle of fish when you post it to my personal email at home. I don't check work emails from home, I never have and never will. Email by definition is work that can wait until it's attended to.

Work having the ability to just contact me at any time causes stress and devalues my free time. I've experienced it first hand from when I ran a business and customers thought it was fine to ring my home number at 9pm and ask for help. Thankfully, I found that billing them slowly stopped this from happening.

If I'm constantly on the clock, expected to take note of work emails and phone calls - or even if as you claim you just "hope" that I will - that places undue pressure on me. It's hard to relax, sink a few beers, whatever, if you're always wondering if that damn phone will ring and you need to try and sound sober and possibly drive somewhere...which you won't be able to do after only 2-3 beers.

Want to spend a romantic night out with your significant other? Sorry dear, I have to cancel plans, work has an emergency. No, it's not a real emergency, but the micro-managing panic stricken rule loving turd who manages me thinks it's important enough to cancel my plans for the evening.

You "wouldn't allow" a boss to call you if an emergency came up?

This is not an emergency. It never has been and it never will be. Call one of the other workers who are on-call for that shift. Maybe don't staff things so poorly that being a single person down is "an emergency". Besides, I don't do shift work - I am salaried, and like everyone else in my office it doesn't matter at all if we miss a few days here and there. Meetings can be rescheduled. Work will wait, deadlines should never be so tight that missing a single day is catastrophic.

You seem to be a passive-aggressive person who wants it both ways. You want to be casual and say "it's cool, just do it tomorrow" but then are still putting mental pressure on your workers to get it done in their own free time.

I have worked in IT for 30 years so I've seen my fair share of death marches, weekend work to practice deployments, after hours support for mission critical systems, etc. I watched one team spend six months on a death march that never seemed likely to end. They worked 6 days a week, 12+ hours each day and at the end still shipped a truly execrable product. Possibly because they were all so dog tired the whole time and couldn't think straight.

I protect both my team and my employer by not allowing such conditions to arise for my team members. I set realistic deadlines, tracked the project diligently and made sure they had their free time as uninterrupted as possible. We hit every deadline and shipped high quality products each time. Tired IT workers are crappy IT workers.

It's also about having agency in your own life. Work shouldn't be able to dictate all the terms of your life, both work and leisure. Do I need to leave my phone on during this play I'm watching in case work decides it needs me? Should I sit down and eat dinner first or am I meant to check the last emails from work first. Should I have already done that on the train / bus home like I see so many others do? Do I need to do that to compete, and if so, is that a competition I want to enter and have even a remote chance of winning?