Slashdot Mirror


Doubts Raised About Cellphone Cancer Study (vox.com)

Vox is strongly criticizing coverage of a supposed link between cellphones and cancer suggested by a new study, calling it "a breathtaking example of irresponsible science hype." An anonymous reader writes: A professor and research monitoring administrator at an American medical school reported that to get their results, the researchers "exposed pregnant rats to whole body CDMA- and GSM-modulated radiofrequency radiation, for 9 hours a day, 7 days a week," and the results were seen only with CDMA (but not GSM-modulated) radiofrequency. "[F]alse positives are very likely. The cancer difference was only seen in females, not males. The incidence of brain cancer in the exposed groups was well within the historical range. There's no clear dose response..."
An emeritus professor of applied statistics at the Open University in Britain also called the study "statistically underpowered..." according to Vox. "Not enough animals were used to allow the researchers to have a good chance of detecting a risk from radiofrequency radiation of the size one might plausibly expect."

20 of 100 comments (clear)

  1. Vox by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Vox is strongly criticizing coverage of a supposed link between cellphones and cancer

    Vox is a highly-leveraged company that makes money with a news site that's designed for use on mobile devices. What the fuck you think they're gonna say?

    Plus, Vox is the absolute ugliest news site every on the internet. I'm not joking. If you visit their page, be careful ow whiplash when you involuntarily turn your head away in horror. And their stock in trade are these hot-take "explainer cardstacks" which is some jargon bullshit for a web page with almost no information that prompts you to click on many other pages in order to read the whole story, which inevitably turns out to be disappointing, with mostly pictures and great big infographics without labels that make you come away feeling like you learned something when in fact you are stupider than when you started.

    A bunch of refugees from other hipster publications started Vox, and they stand as a shining example of bad journalism, bad design and a bad business model.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Vox by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      OK, I just realized that there are some of you who may believe that I'm overdoing my criticism of vox.com, so I'm going to post a story from their motherfucking front page today. It's an "explainer cardstack" about a meme that I guarantee you have not heard of or seen if you are out of junior high school. A news story about a meme.

      Imagine, these are people with advanced degrees in journalism who are writing this shit.

      http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/1...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Vox by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A bullshit study is a bullshit study, no matter who calls out the fact that it is bullshit. The fact that this only happens to the males and not the females is basically a dead ringer for it being a part of the rat's genome and that it's not being influenced by any environmental or other outside factors. I'm not even a scientist and that fact sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Then when you read deeper into the methodology used, and they didn't even use enough subjects to be able to come anywhere close to being able to meet statistical significance, that this is just another one of those bogus health related studies that come around every now and then because somebody is ideologically opposed to something everybody does or uses, and sets out to prove a point rather than to investigate. This is similar to studies that come around every now and then to attempt to prove that take your pick of any one of meat, GMO, vaccination, or aspartame is bad for you.

    3. Re:Vox by quantaman · · Score: 2

      Vox is strongly criticizing coverage of a supposed link between cellphones and cancer

      Vox is a highly-leveraged company that makes money with a news site that's designed for use on mobile devices. What the fuck you think they're gonna say?

      That strikes me as a bit of a stretch as far as conflicts of interest go.

      Plus, Vox is the absolute ugliest news site every on the internet. I'm not joking. If you visit their page, be careful ow whiplash when you involuntarily turn your head away in horror. And their stock in trade are these hot-take "explainer cardstacks" which is some jargon bullshit for a web page with almost no information that prompts you to click on many other pages in order to read the whole story, which inevitably turns out to be disappointing, with mostly pictures and great big infographics without labels that make you come away feeling like you learned something when in fact you are stupider than when you started.

      A bunch of refugees from other hipster publications started Vox, and they stand as a shining example of bad journalism, bad design and a bad business model.

      You think they have an ugly website and therefore their reporting on the cellphone study is wrong??

      Honestly I read a fair bit of Vox. I haven't looked at the card stacks but I think they're intended as a very high level basic overview (in case you're completely ignorant of the subject) but the stories, aside from their annoying click baity design, are generally pretty solid. They essentially come at things with a wonky left-leaning perspective and I haven't found them to be too far off the mark.

      And that includes their coverage of this study which seems to be pretty balanced.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    4. Re:Vox by Xenographic · · Score: 3, Informative

      > OK, I just realized that there are some of you who may believe that I'm overdoing my criticism of vox.com, so I'm going to post a story from their motherfucking front page today

      That makes them better than Mother Jones (reporter of the original story) who has a "meme of the day" then, no?

      http://www.motherjones.com/kev...

      I'm curious as to how RF causes cancer only in *male* rats and why they live longer anyhow, or why the middle exposure group tended to have zero rats with cancer, rather than the low exposure groups, which had about as much cancer as the high exposure groups. Frankly, from reading the data reported in the study (you all did that... right?), all I could help think there's no clear pattern here. It really looks like the noise is larger than the effects, given all the 'anomalous' zero samples assuming the hypothesis that it really does cause cancer.

    5. Re:Vox by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I'm curious as to how RF causes cancer only in *male* rats and why they live longer anyhow, or why the middle exposure group tended to have zero rats with cancer

      Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying exposure to RF causes cancer. I'm saying exposure to Vox causes cancer.

      However, that being said, if there's one thing that should cause cancer in a just universe, it's cell phone usage.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Vox by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Informative

      > I'm saying exposure to Vox causes cancer.

      Even stopped clocks are right twice a day. I think the complaints about this study look legit here. I don't read Vox regularly and have no stake in arguing whether they're good or bad in general.

    7. Re:Vox by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I also find it slightly ironic that Slashdot first links to said bullshit study the other day (in which many people rightly call out that it's complete crap), and then posts this a few days later, as if they didn't contribute to the original study's publicity.

      I mean, I get it, Slashdot is just a news aggregator, but I really wish they could find more reliable news sources to draw from in the first place, rather than having to post the same story twice: first sensationalizing, then debunking.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  2. Funny, I thought by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That 1, it was the male rats affected, and two, those rats actually lived longer. So we should see headlines like this: Constant Cell Phone Use Lengthens Lifespan (in men)

  3. Emotional involvement by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One problem with media reporting today is the perceived need to get emotional involvement.

    In it's economic zeal to get eyeballs on articles, the media has resorted to sensationalizing and emotionalism. They compete for the most outrageous, most shocking headlines in an attempt to lure readers.

    ...and because of this the media has lost all credibility. The readers have wised up, and most don't seem to fall for these tricks any more.

    We only have to look at the Trump campaign to see how this happened. Taking one single issue as an example, we read all about how he hates and has a war against latinos. In reality, he said nothing of the sort, which is 'kinda why he's got such a huge support base right now.

    The media is astonished that his supporters aren't leaving him in droves... he *is* the next Hitler, didn't you know?

    Everything is a crisis, everything is a war on something, everything is a conflict.

    (Note: You can learn how to get around this using this one weird trick!)

    1. Re:Emotional involvement by careysub · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice wording. By phrasing it so that a link needs to quote him specifically saying something you specify, you narrow legitimate potential replies...

      Interestingly enough, this is a very popular tactic used by Neo-Nazis to deny that Hitler had anything to do with the Holocaust or other atrocities.

      Many years after WWII the German files have been exhaustively searched and analyzed, and so we know exactly what the record shows of the Holocaust's planning and execution. So the tactic is to make up some seemingly reasonable sounding "requirement" that the Hitler-defender knows does not exist - e.g. Hitler must have signed a formal order for the Holocaust - and demanding that it be produced, insinuating that if you can't produce such a document then it never happened. We know that that was not required, all of Hitler's Lieutenants knew what he wanted (he kept it no secret) and set the wheel on motion on their own authority given them by Hitler (but he did for example personally authorize the establishment of battlefield death squads, and the murder of disabled Germans, and was kept apprised of the progress of the Holocaust).

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  4. The journalism.. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    was facepalm worthy from the get go.
    But it continues to be facepalm worthy in criticizing the study.

    The study was not worthless. It failed to show a statistically significant link. But it might have. The study was big enough that a real effect would have stuck out like a sore thumb. That it didn't, but some weird weak relationships were seen in fact puts a bound on the maximum size of the problem : I.E. In some contexts (gender, ludicrously powered phone, being a mouse) the effect of cell phone radiation doesn't cause excess tumors over the expected rate with a pretty good confidence.

    The press started out all "OMG! Cell phones cause cancer!!!!". Then after the criticism of the hyperbole they went all "OMG!!! That study was shite!!!". The problem is with the press, not the study.
     

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:The journalism.. by Pseudonym · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know the worst part, though? The headline of very Slashdot story implies that doubts were raised about the study rather than how it was reported. The mistake is being compounded every time the story is retold.

      (Incidentally, the "statistically underpowered" comment is accurate but irrelevant. The whole point of a small-scale study is to decide whether or not it's worth spending resources on a larger-scale study. Science journalists should know this.)

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    2. Re:The journalism.. by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

      A real effect would stick out like a sore thumb in society in general, now that people have spent 20 years with cell phones glued to their ears.

      You'd think so, but cancer is actually pretty tricky to pin down and the technology and usage patterns of mobile phone usage hasn't remained constant over those 20 years.

      Despite 50 years of outcome improvements, the mortality rate of cancer has remained relatively static. The reason may simply be that people are dying of cancer because they aren't dying of other things, and hence getting old enough to die from cancers that are hard to treat. Moreover, mobile phones were originally mostly car-mounted, and in recent years it's more about earbuds and bluetooth, so people haven't been literally holding the phone against their heads at a constant rate over that time.

      So no, it would not necessarily stick out like a sore thumb. It's still arguably a good thing to research.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  5. Did anyone read the whole thing? by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

    I didn't. :) But just reading the first dozen pages...

    It looks like they broke the test rats into groups with 1.5, 3, and 6 W/kg exposure, CDMA and GSM, male and female. That's 3*2*2 = 12 groups. For the brain section, they looked for two types of tumors. So now they've got 24 groupings that they're searching for possible correlations.

    The statistical significance of the one correlation they found (male, CDMA, 6 W/kg, malignant glioma) was p < 0.05. In other words, due to their limited sample size, just by random chance alone you'd expect such a blip to occur about 1 in 20 times even when there is no real correlation. Well they tried 24 times and got one blip.

    Same thing with the heart results. 24 groupings, one blip with p < 0.05, one blip with p = 0.052. Again, almost exactly what you'd expect by pure chance alone.

    1. Re:Did anyone read the whole thing? by Solandri · · Score: 4, Funny

      Forgot to link the relevant XKCD cartoon.

  6. Rats vs Humans by MrKaos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the big thing to remember is that humans are walking around making calls with a 1-3W microwave transmitter attached to the side of their head, rats don't. This may not be a lot of power however combined with human habit (left or right side exposure) it is certain to deliver a constant rate of microwave energy almost directly to the brain.

    I've seen someone die from brain cancer and it's bad, so I think it's worth sharing a few things that make it simple to take personal responsibility for your own safety. First, it's your brain, so it is worth protecting as the most valued organ in the body and much more sensitive than the thigh or other large muscle groups or even a hand - so simple habit changes can reduce the risks, whatever they turn out to be.

    Second, don't trust any information from any source that sponsored from an interest in mobile phone sales or use, we've all seen how the tobacco industry behave to protect their business model and revenue stream.

    Once you are aware of the properties of the transmitter and the device it is simple to make minor changes to usage patterns that can also increase the usefullness of the device. At approximately 2.4 Ghz the wavelength is roughly 13cm, which is about the width of a human head, so if you are within one wavelength your head will absorb a portion of the energy from the phone. At 60-180 degrees of the fresnel of transmission into the head, it can vary between >0% to 50% of the power output.

    If the device is pressed up against you will increase the rate of absorbtion due to inductance, this will also cause the device to increase the power output of the to maintain a clear signal, which consequently will increase the rate of exposure to the brain.

    Another thing to factor is if the phone has a wi-fi transmitter operational while you are using it, as this will also contribute to increasing the rate of exposure as it is also a 2.4 Ghz transmitter.

    For every wavelength away from your head the phone is this will reduce the exposure to your brain by increasing orders of magnitude. This might mean you choose to use speaker phone if you have a private moment, or to use the same headphone you are using for music to take the call. Additionally you may find that the battery life of the device is increased and you have less call dropouts as it is no longer increasing its signal output to overcome the effects of the capacitance from the water in your brain to maintain the call connection.

    The long term effects from mobile use will vary however the properties and nature of the device are predictable enough to make simple, unobtrusive changes to usage patterns to avoid being someone who finds out if there is any the hard way. If it means your battery lasts longer, you appear more polite to people and you have better call quality while your use your phone this may be an unexpected benefit of erring on the cautious side.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Rats vs Humans by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      Let's just stop the speculation, and look at facts. The number of cases of brain cancer per 100,000 population simply has NOT increased since the introduction of cell phones. In fact, citing the site below...Using statistical models for analysis, rates for new brain and other nervous system cancer cases have been falling on average 0.2% each year over the last 10 years. Do you have statistical evidence to the contrary? If not, then you should stop spreading FUD.

      http://seer.cancer.gov/statfac...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  7. Outcome of reasearch by houghi · · Score: 2

    The consensus is that research causes cancer in mice. News at 11.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  8. Strong emotion but little basis in fact by sonamchauhan · · Score: 2

    Why the emo?

    From the study:
    "In the heart, exposure to GSM or CDMA modulations of RFR in male rats resulted in a statistically significant, positive trend in the incidence of schwannomas. "

    One of its conclusions:
    "Under the conditions of these 2-year studies, the hyperplastic lesions and glial cell neoplasms of the heart and brain observed in male rats are considered likely the result of whole-body exposures to GSM- or CDMA-modulated RFR."

    One of the three reviewers (all three of whom agreed with the study's conclusions):
    https://cvm.ncsu.edu/directory...

    What they are saying could well be true.