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John McAfee Denied Libertarian Party Nomination For President (reason.com)

SonicSpike quotes an article at Reason: In a decisive rout for pragmatism over purity, the Libertarian Party has nominated former New Mexico Republican Governor and 2012 nominee Gary Johnson for president. Johnson came within an eyelash of winning on the first ballot, pulling 49.5 percent of the vote, just short of the required majority. (Libertarian activist Austin Petersen and software magnate John McAfee came in second and third, respectively, with 21.3 percent and 14.1 percent.) With sixth-place finisher Kevin McCormick (and his 0.973 percent of the vote) booted from the second ballot, Johnson sailed through with 55.8 percent.
John Mcafee answered questions here on Slashdot in 2013. Reason's article includes a video of their interview this weekend with the party's official nominee Gary Johnson, who hopes to qualify for the nationally-televised presidential debates by drawing 15% of the support in national opinion polls.

46 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why do we need US political topics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The U.S. is the biggest circus and political clown-force-farcical there is, and in their own minds they matter more than anyone else, and thus deserve the most attention. Who said you can't campaign for 48 months before the actual voting begins?

  2. Re:Why do we need US political topics? by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If TTIP gets through, the US's broken system will be exported. By "broken" I mean the way that wealthy lobbying groups bribe/finance politicians to get them to pass the laws they want. Simple corruption.

    --
    Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
  3. Purity? by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

    McAfee? Purity? They must be talking about his drugs.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  4. Lost, not 'denied' by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He wasn't denied, he just plain lost. Theres a difference.

    Denied is a sensationalist headline trying to get clicks.

    Lost is the reality of a batshit crazy nut job 'running' for president.

    The real story here is that he got any votes at all.

    The only question though ... is WHY THE FUCK IS THIS ON SLASHDOT?

    Don't care when he shits either, just for reference.

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    1. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by tpgp · · Score: 2, Funny

      Lost is the reality of a batshit crazy nut job 'running' for president.

      *crickets*

      --
      My pics.
    2. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LMFTFY

      Lost is the reality of a not sufficiently batshit crazy nut job 'running' for president.

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    3. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If there's such a thing as "hive mind" here, John is aligned with it very closely.

      Take any of the political issues (Snowden, NDAA, DMCA, TPP, etc.) or any of the technocratic issues (copyrighting API's, backdooring NIST standards, etc.) and McAfee was the Slashdot candidate.

      I see no evidence at all that Trump or Clinton are any more sane than McAfee.

      I see no evidence that Obama is any more moral than McAfee.

      He likes to portray the "bad boy" image, and he seems to have some wild ideas, but show me a man without an ego problem and I'll show you somebody who isn't running for POTUS.

      --
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      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Funny

      I momentarily forgot about the two front runner candidates when I was making that post :(

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      The first key to someone being a nutball is how broadly they broadcast views which are obviously going to be rejected.

      I know, McAfee is always going on about building a two-thousand mile wall and making the people it would hurt pay for it...

      I see no evidence that Obama is any more moral than McAfee.

      I see no evidence of the opposite, either.

      Wow, you can't count the bodies?

      Show me a man without a drug problem, and whose wife didn't die under mysterious circumstances. Even if he's innocent, he'd never win.

      Nor will Johnson, but Johnson will show the public that Libertarians are Nazi-cake bakin' burka-shaming nuke-droppin' hypocrites, which will set back decades of hard work by many industrious volunteers. By many accounts Clinton has a coke problem but that doesn't seem to disqualify her. I think all Trump is high on is his reflection, but that's why it would have taken a mentally-hardened candidate to go mano-a-mano with Trump in a debate.

      If you think that the country will be better off under the leadership of Clinton or Trump, then it's not McAfee who's crazy.

      #feelthejohnson

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 2

      The only reason this is on Slashdot is that he once had an impact on the world of technology. At least he made a real contribution once instead of being one of many members of a committee that approved funding for ARPANet.

    7. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by ooloorie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As Friedman put it, "Government is the delusion in which you put unselfish and ungreedy men in charge of selfish and greedy men."

      Nevertheless, even among selfish and greedy men, there are gradations of ruthlessness and incompetence.

    8. Re:Lost, not 'denied' by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      You don't? It's ample. The first key to someone being a nutball is how broadly they broadcast views which are obviously going to be rejected. It doesn't matter if you're right, if you lose interest in whether people will think you're insane when you speak... you're insane.

      By that standard, Trump, who appears to have no filter, is clinical. Clinton, who appears to have almost nothing but filter, is sane. I would reject that analysis. Trump is too over-the-top with his speech, and Clinton is too reserved.

      There's a happy medium between the two extremes in which people present unpopular ideas and explain why they're the right choice in a way that the people can understand. Sane people try to sway public opinion through always telling the truth and trusting that the public will recognize genuine truth when they see it. They don't throw a bunch of s**t at the wall and see what sticks, and on the other hand, they don't try to protect themselves from criticism by always choosing their words extremely carefully and deliberately, and by never saying anything that they consider controversial, by never taking sides on controversial issues, etc.

      What's funny here is that if you look at the way they speak, Clinton, a Democrat, is the most conservative candidate out there, and Trump is the most reactionary liberal. Sanders, who politically qualifies as the lunatic fringe, comes across as the sane one. How the heck did that happen?

      --

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  5. Denied? by KermodeBear · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You make it sound like the party was colluding against him in dark rooms filled with cigar smoke.

    The way I see it, the Libertarian party wasn't being pragmatic at all. You see, there's significant portion of the Republican party that is very, very libertarian leaning. They're concerned about the constitution, the rule of law, and the size of government. When Ted Cruz suspended his campaign, these people had nowhere to go - until Austin Petersen started to court them.

    Mr. Petersen started to win these people over in droves. The Blaze, the television network owned by Glenn Beck, even carried the last Libertarian party debate, with several re-run to ensure that many of the conservatives left in the cold could see what was going on, offering them a potential option.

    The Libertarians had a chance - a once in a lifetime chance - to grow their party by leaps and bounds with Austin Petersen. He's bright, articulate, extremely dedicated to the rule of law, dedicated to the free exercise of religion, and not doing everything by executive fiat. But the Libertarians decided to puff-puff-pass on him and run Gary, again.

    And then there's the whole strip naked on stage thing.

    At this point I'm convinced that the Libertarian party isn't serious about electing a president. You cannot win elections when the chairman of your party is stripping naked on stage. It's embarrassing.

    On the (R) side we have a crony capitalist progressive who wants to "open up libel laws" so that he can sue people he doesn't like, and on the (D) side we have a marxist criminal progressive who wants to shred the second amendment. What do the Libertarians offer in 2016? Dancing naked and marijuana.

    I still think a third party is the answer, but the Libertarian party obviously is not it. They're not serious.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:Denied? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Marxist".

      To call anybody in a mainstream US political activity marxist is a staggering misunderstanding as to what the term means.

    2. Re:Denied? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      the Libertarian party

      My favorite part of the convention was when Johnson mentioned that he was OK with the idea of people having to take a test to get a drivers license and the audience started booing and screaming, "BULLSHIT!" When he said he supported the Civil Rights Act - sorta- I thought he was gonna be run out of the venue on a rail.

      http://nmpoliticalreport.com/4...

      It's a good thing Big-L Libertarians are too high to ever amount to anything, or we'd all be in trouble. But I do like the fact that the candidate for party chair came out on stage and took all his clothes off, proudly displaying his giant Iron Cross tattoo.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Denied? by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, it is not the answer. Because no third party ever has any real chance of winning important elections. It is essentially impossible because of the way the system is designed.

      Tell that to the Democratic-Republicans, the Whigs, and the Federalists.

      Its always been a 2 party system, but it hasn't always been these two parties.

      The real collusion against it happening again is the requirement that a candidate get 15% in polling before being allowed in the presidential debates. Most polls dont include 3rd party candidates, therefore a third party candidate cannot get 15% in polls.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Denied? by gfxguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Libertarian is the belief that I'm great, and fuck you. I'm goddamned glad that they have no chance to win, because if anything could be more terrifying than the current one-party system, it's some Randian libertarian seizing the reins and... who knows what they might do? Nothing sensible.

      No. Despite the politically sophomoric typical slashdotter's opinion, libertarianism is about personal rights and freedoms. It's NOT objectivism. Libertarians don't believe in slavery, or subjugating people "below" them. The misconception about libertarians here is amazing... I realize a few tea partiers and "what's good for me" republicans have used the party name to misrepresent what they really are - the problem is that because you are "libertarian" on one topic doesn't make you a libertarian.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:Denied? by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      No, I didn't use the "no true Scotsman" argument; I gave a one liner - an accurate one - about the fundamental concept of libertiarianism. Just like other political parties, there's a wide variety of libertarians, but there is always the one fundamental concept that determines whether or not one is a libertarian: the belief in personal liberties and freedoms.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    6. Re:Denied? by ooloorie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To call anybody in a mainstream US political activity marxist is a staggering misunderstanding as to what the term means.

      The ignorance there is yours. The feminist and racial ideas promoted by Hillary and Sanders are rooted in a mix of progressivism and critical theory, and critical theory is simply another term for "neo-Marxism". That's not an accusation or an interpretation, that's how the people who developed this theory actually understand themselves.

    7. Re:Denied? by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"Libertarian is the belief that I'm great, and fuck you."

      Sorry, but that is just about as narrow-minded as saying Democrat is the belief that people are too stupid to manage themselves and need the government to do it for them.

      Libertarianism is a leaning, just like all other political leanings... it is not an absolute. Its general belief is that people can take care of themselves better than a government can, so government should be no larger than absolutely necessary.

      >" if anything could be more terrifying than the current one-party system, it's some Randian libertarian seizing the reins and... who knows what they might do? Nothing sensible."

      Again, just about as ridiculous as saying "if some Republican gets the reins"... blah blah blah. Any politician or position is going to be held to a variety of pressures and compromises, checks and balances. Throwing all Libertarians into a single basket is not only unfair, it is disingenuous.

      Based on the never ending increase in the size, power, expense, complexity, and corruption of the government (most specifically the Federal one), having voices arguing for and pushing for less spending, less taxation, smaller government, more civil liberty, and more freedom is quite compelling and appropriate in many ways.

    8. Re:Denied? by swillden · · Score: 2

      To call anybody in a mainstream US political activity marxist is a staggering misunderstanding as to what the term means.

      The ignorance there is yours. The feminist and racial ideas promoted by Hillary and Sanders are rooted in a mix of progressivism and critical theory, and critical theory is simply another term for "neo-Marxism". That's not an accusation or an interpretation, that's how the people who developed this theory actually understand themselves.

      While that's true, it's misleading because the word "Marxism" has very nasty connotations that the academic, theoretical aspects of Marx's work don't deserve. I'm not saying Marx's economics was right[*], but Marx himself would have been horrified to see what vicious and power-hungry people were able to do by exploiting his high-minded, if technically erroneous, ideas, and it's the work of those people which Americans associate with his name. Also, it's misleading because the "neo-" is guaranteed to be overshadowed by the "Marxist". Neo-Marxists change Marx's theory in some important ways. They're also wrong, but perhaps less so, and their changes remove some of the ideas which made it easy to justify exploitation by the vicious and power-hungry.

      So, "neo-Marxist" is correct in the dry, academic sense, but it's very misleading in terms of the connotations and reactions the phrase will generate.
      .
      .

      [*] Specifically, Marx's labor theory of value completely ignores the extremely important aspect of information flow. This makes his theory very fundamentally wrong in multiple ways. For example, it completely ignores the competitive market forces enabled by innovation. Marx assumed a static economy, where everyone producing widget X did it the same way, with the same inputs of labor and materials. In such an economy, there is no value in competition, and all value really does derive from labor (and materials, but those also boil down to the labor to extract/obtain them). In reality, competition creates various forms of innovation to create efficiencies that drive down the labor and material costs, and to create entirely new categories of goods that obsolete others.

      Another important example which I think most people in the world still don't get is that ignoring information flows implies that there is no value in the work done by owners and managers of capital. It implies that those who merely shuffle money (e.g. investment bankers) around are pure waste, which is also very wrong. They and their focus on extracting maximal returns from capital[**] are critically important in ensuring that resources flows to the enterprises that can make most effective use of them, where "most effective" is defined as "pleases the most people as evidenced by their willingness to pay money."

      [**] Footnotes with foonotes are awesome. Also, it should be mentioned that some work of owners and managers of capital is not productive, but rent-seeking facilitated by restriction of information flows. Government action is required to prevent that, though it should be done by shining light onto the operations not by trying to regulate their actions. Active regulation creates motive for regulatory capture.

      --
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    9. Re:Denied? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Yeah you kinda did. If you want to see what the Libertarian beliefs REALLY are, and not just your sugar coated "tyrue Libertarian" BS? Then look at one of the most popular libertarians ON THE PLANET...Stefan Molyneux. He is hate filled, Randian as fuck, so misogynist that even anti-feminists like myself go "dude you might want to tone that done,mmkay?" and is using cult like tactics such as telling kids to divorce their parents if they don't buy into his Randian bullshit...he calls it "defooing", look it up. He also gets millions of views per day preaching the cult of Supply Side Jesus, probably more than any other "libertarian" on the entire planet!

      So sorry, you do not get to dictate what a libertarian is, anymore than a democrat can sing the virtues of the democrat party while they run the most corrupt bitch to ever seek office or the republicans can sing how great their party is when....damn did you see who they ran this year? They didn't have a single choice that wasn't batshit or a trust fund baby insider.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Denied? by Crosshair84 · · Score: 2

      Stefan Molyneux is a libertarian in the same way that the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian. It just a front to either make money and/or acquire fame and power, which is why Molyneux finds it necessary to isolate his "followers" from critics. This is starkly opposed to other Libertarian groups who spend considerable time discussing how to engage constructively with critics.

      I would also contest the idea that Molyneux is "one of the most popular". He is one of the most visible, there is a difference. He catches a lot of well deserved criticism from other Libertarian individuals and even philosophers for the faulty logic and thinking he uses.

      Just a little bit hypocritical on your part to say that they do not get to define what a libertarian is, then promptly proceed to define what a libertarian is.

    11. Re:Denied? by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      Economics being Marx's chief concern and most certainly what he's popularly known for today.

      No, that's an incorrect interpretation. Marxism is primarily about analyzing history and society in terms of class relations and conflict. Marxism is not a synonym for central planning or Soviet-style communism. In fact, from a Marxist point of view, the class struggle is the real issue, and whether it is ended via increasingly tight regulation of a market economy or via a centrally planned economy is a secondary question.

      In othet words, calling a candidate like Hilary (who in regards to the economy is a moderate) a Marxist without further elaboration like the above post did is obsurd

      I disagree. Both Hillary and Sanders divide up society into competing groups (primarily "classes" and "minorities") and then advocate policies based on reasoning about power, privilege, exploitation, and oppression between these groups. That is the essence of Marxist analysis. It is the basis for many of their policies related to race and women (in fact, their positions are textbook neo-Marxist), and it is also a justification for economic policies.

    12. Re:Denied? by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      Umm, I'm pretty sure the list of most popular libertarians on the planet doesn't include that guy I've never heard of because I AM A LIBERTARIAN. After doing a google search for him, he seems like much more of an anarchist than a libertarian. Also, he's not even an American, so throwing him into a discussion on American politics is a bit of a non-sequitur...

      Speaking of non-libertarians, I'm pretty sure they've heard of some famous people who identify themselves as libertarians including:
      Penn and Teller (both of them)
      Drew Carey
      Kurt Russell
      Andrew Napolitano
      Trey Parker
      John Stossel

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  6. Other party than the republicrats? by johanw · · Score: 2

    You mean the US CAN vote for someone else than Trump or Hillary? So the people ARE to blame if one of the former becomes president and does something stupid?

    1. Re:Other party than the republicrats? by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Informative

      Technically the choice exists, but because first-past-the-post voting creates a kind of prisoners' dilemma it's unreasonable to expect people to make that choice.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Other party than the republicrats? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Technically the choice exists, but because first-past-the-post voting creates a kind of prisoners' dilemma it's unreasonable to expect people to make that choice.

      Land of privatized prisons, home of people too cowardly to vote for a candidate who cares about them. I'm writing in Bernie, and I don't give a fuck. And yes, I expect to have to write him in. Clinton is obviously in the script.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Re:"software magnate" by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Funny

    They didn't want the campaign slogan to be "Uninstall McAfee" and they especially didn't want Hillary to call herself, "America's Security Essentials."

  8. Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He wants to deprive gays of the right to marry, and wants to make abortion illegal. These two items are massive infringements on civil liberties and about as far from libertarian ideals as one can get. People like Cruz and Santorum cater to the religious crazy wing of the Republican party and are one of the main reasons the GOP is in such disarray.

    1. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by gfxguy · · Score: 2

      Being anti abortion (to an extent) is not anti-libertarian. Being against gay marriage certainly is. But if libertarians believe in personal liberties and freedoms - the rights of the individual, then it comes down to when you consider a fetus an individual. You can rail on about how it's not a "person" until it's born, but having the belief that a second or third trimester fetus (or, in extreme cases, at conception) deserves the same rights to life you have is certainly not against libertarian principles - abortion would be as big a debate inside the libertarian party is as it is outside, because it all comes down to when you believe a fetus has that right to life.

      For the record, as a libertarian, I'm not against abortion, per se, but I wouldn't suggest someone couldn't be libertarian because they were.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      but having the belief that a second or third trimester fetus (or, in extreme cases, at conception) deserves the same rights to life you have is certainly not against libertarian principles ... because it all comes down to when you believe a fetus has that right to life.

      Abortion isn't about whether a fetus "has a right to life", it is about whether a fetus "has a right to live using someone else's body for survival against their will".

      If you base your argument for the use of government power to force women to carry a fetus to term against their will on fetal personhood, you then have to postulate a right that no major political ideology recognizes, namely a right of one person to use another person's body for survival against their will. I can't see such a "right" being compatible with libertarianism.

    3. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 2

      Being against gay marriage certainly is

      The libertarian position against gay marriage: Government doesn't need to be in the marriage business and shouldn't be requiring a license for marriage (among many other things), gay or otherwise. Let people make their own contracts, recognize or not recognize what associations they want to and stop deciding it all based on what's popular politically at the time. That way you can contract for whatever special relationship you want, but you stop forcing others to become an unwilling participant to that contract, which is what the pro-gay marriage crowd appears to want to happen.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    4. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by Alomex · · Score: 2

      right to life for a person

      There's your problem. A clump of cells otherwise known as a cygote is not a person. Go back to square one and try again.

    5. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It's not a moral or rational argument, it's a religious one. It all rests on the foetus having rights the same or similar to a what it has after being born. Science gives us some information on things like brain activity and ability to feel pain, but wanting to completely ban abortion requires assigning those rights from pretty much the moment of conception, for which there is no supporting medical evidence.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Ted Cruz isn't libertarian by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      If you start transporting a person across a dangerous river, one in which the odds are overwhelming they'll die if not for your boat, then yes, you have an obligation to them to do what you can (without giving up your own life) to transport them to safety.

      My obligation to you is determined based on whatever terms for transport we agree on. You are welcome to try to argue that conception implies a contract between a fetus and the mother, and hence confers particular legal obligations on the mother, but that line of reasoning is not rooted in a "right to life", it is rooted in arguments about contracts.

      In any case, a river crossing example is misleading because its cost structure is wrong. A better example is where you lie dying on the ground (say, you broke your neck) and survive only if someone gives you mouth-to-mouth resuscitation until the ambulance arrives. At least in the US (and under a libertarian understanding), both starting and continuing resuscitation are voluntary. You may well argue that there ought to be a legal obligation to start and continue resuscitation, but such a view is incompatible with libertarian principles (and is also incompatible with contract law as understood in actual legal systems).

      I'm amazed you can't see how a right to life for a person could be compatible with libertarianism.

      An absolute "right to life" cannot even be defined consistently (go try it). Under libertarianism, if you trespass upon my property or body, whether to remove you from my property or body is my choice, and that is a free and moral choice I make, not a choice that can be compelled by the legal system.

  9. LIbertarians don't have a chance in 2016 by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The overwhelming majority of American "Libertarians" are just Republicans with a couple gripes. Their underlying sense of duty to the GOP will come through and they will vote for Trump as they are trained to see nothing worse for the world than anyone named Clinton. They know that they cannot block a Clinton presidency by voting for a third party.

    --
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    1. Re:LIbertarians don't have a chance in 2016 by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      The overwhelming majority of American "Libertarians" are just Republicans with a couple gripes.

      The overwhelming majority of Americans is either Republican or independent.

      They know that they cannot block a Clinton presidency by voting for a third party.

      You bet that blocking a Clinton presidency may end up being high on the agenda for a lot of people, because Clinton is a lying, incompetent crook, regardless of her party affiliation, or what political goals she pretends to stand for today.

    2. Re:LIbertarians don't have a chance in 2016 by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      That depends on how you define "Independent".

      The term "independent" refers to party registration.

      If she is an incompetent crook then how has she made it this far?

      She is incompetent at government, not at lying. And without Bill Clinton to back her up, she would be a non-entity.

      So did you foe me because you can't stand reality?

      No, I "foed" you because you are a partisan idiot.

  10. All wrong by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There shouldn't be a libertarian party. Everybody should be his own candidate.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  11. Re:Why do we need US political topics? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nobody in any other country is corrupt like they are here.

    This is true. No other country is corrupt in the way that America is corrupt. In other countries, corruption is illegal. Only in America are our most corrupt practices fully legal and right out in the open. Hillary didn't take under the table bribes from Wall Street bankers. Nope, they donated millions to her super-PAC and paid her over $600k in "speaking fees". This was all above board, and reported to the FEC and IRS.

  12. Re: Why do we need US political topics? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or, you're posting to a US based website, hence it is going to focus more on events in the US, just like any other domestic website in any other country would do.

  13. Re:"software magnate" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are at least four choices available for president. The voter is the only limiting factor.

    Also, third parties do not need to win to matter. The Green Party campaign in 2000 cost the Democrats the election, and sent a clear message that they could lose more votes on the left than they were gaining in the center. Likewise, the Libertarians show that there is a constituency for free market economics without the intolerant social conservatism. Someday the Republicans may stop worrying about toilets and go after those votes. Or maybe the Democrats will start focusing on growing the pie instead of how to slice it up.

    The purpose of 3rd parties is to push new ideas into the Overton Window, and get the major parties to adopt them. If you look at American party platfoms in 1900, the most successful political party over the next 100 years was the Socialist Workers Party. They advocated public pensions, welfare, unemployment pay, and free healthcare for the elderly. They didn't win many elections, but all of those policies were adopted, and are now the law of the land.

    If you want to make a difference, vote 3rd party, and send a message. This is especially true if you live in non-swing state, as most Americans do, where your vote is otherwise meaningless.

  14. Re:"software magnate" by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, an intentionally 'weak' candidate that presented no real opposition cost the democrats the elections in 2000 (Re, 1968). And this is the intention now. This whole "spoiler" angle is a fraud. A guilt trip brought on by the loser's voters who believe they are entitled to our votes and try to blame us for everything that went wrong.

    The Overton Window needs to be smashed. In fact the wall containing it needs to be demolished.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  15. Re:"software magnate" by dgatwood · · Score: 2

    Also, third parties do not need to win to matter. The Green Party campaign in 2000 cost the Democrats the election, and sent a clear message that they could lose more votes on the left than they were gaining in the center.

    And yet here we are just four presidential elections later, and the Democrats are leaning towards former Secretary Clinton. You can send a clear message all that you want to, but that doesn't make any difference if the people on the other end don't even bother to read the message.

    If you look at American party platfoms in 1900, the most successful political party over the next 100 years was the Socialist Workers Party. They advocated public pensions, welfare, unemployment pay, and free healthcare for the elderly.

    Maybe, but it could also be argued that they had no effect at all, and that instead, the rise of muckrakers and investigative journalism brought sunshine to dark corners of public policy. It could easily be argued that the decline of American politics into pure noise has been caused by the decline of the news media as a career choice for the best and brightest, caused in turn by a combination of media consolidation and chronically low wages. (Great pun in that last sentence, too.)

    If you want to make a difference, vote 3rd party, and send a message. This is especially true if you live in non-swing state, as most Americans do, where your vote is otherwise meaningless.

    If I thought that message would have an effect, I would do that. I probably will anyway, but I wouldn't blame the people who don't bother. Unfortunately, at this point, our system of democracy is so broken that, at least at the federal level, our votes are almost as meaningless as in the mock elections that we used to joke about in other countries. The two parties are indistinguishable on all the issues that actually matter and have a nonzero chance of actually resulting in changes to our laws.

    You basically have some wedge issues like abortion and the death penalty that tend to divide the parties, with the Republicans coming down on the moral side of abortion and the public good side of the death penalty, and Democrats choosing the opposite sides. These issues are so complex and thorny that nobody wants to touch them beyond using them as a cheap 30-second sound bite, which means no matter who you vote for, we're not going to see anything happen in either area. The only way either will change is through ballot measures.

    And then you have the core issues, like privacy, national security, the economy, etc. In these areas, although there's ostensibly a huge difference between the parties, in practice, they're nearly identical.

    On the economy, Democrats tax and spend, while Republicans borrow and spend, devaluing the dollar, effectively taxing and spending. In a perverse way, the Republican approach in that area turns out to be more fair because it taxes the rich more than the poor, proportional to their savings and income, but they make up for it by trying to shove regressive tax structures down our throats, so it's basically a wash. At best, Democrats avoid more of the really foolish decisions like lowering taxes on the ultra-wealthy, but that's like saying that shooting yourself in the foot is better than shooting yourself in the gut. It is technically true, but either way, you're still shooting yourself. Neither party is fiscally conservative, because neither party has the self-control to limit spending.

    About the only area where they differ meaningfully is in their approach to regulations—whether they favor regulations or trust in the free market. Unfortunately, neither approach works all that well. Both work under certain circumstances. Neither party seems to recognize that, or acknowledge that there are situations where their approach falls apart. This mostly results in bad regulations that don't have the desired effect, coupled with missing r

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  16. Re: Why do we need US political topics? by sumdumass · · Score: 2

    Your facts are wrong. The laws were followed including the time limits to certify the results of the election. Florida certainly did send legitimate electors.

    Oh, and international law only applies to a country if that country accepts it's application by treaty or if it is imposed by subjugation of their sovereignty. So if you want to cite international law, you must show where we are subject to it. But the supreme court case specifically dealt with this already and said you could not change the rules mid process which is why they could not recount the votes enough for Gore to win in the allotted time span.