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Nest's Time At Alphabet: A 'Virtually Unlimited Budget' With No Results (arstechnica.com)

Posted by msmash on from the not-the-best-moment dept.

Ron Amadeo, reporting for Ars Technica (edited and condensed): Nest CEO Tony Fadell wasn't officially "fired" from Nest, but it certainly feels like it. In just the last few months, Nest has had to deal with reports of an "employee exodus," a string of public insults from Dropcam co-founder and departing Nest employee Greg Duffy, news that even Google supposedly didn't want to work with Nest on a joint project, and fallout from the company's decision to remotely disable Nest's deprecated Revolv devices. [...] It's hard to argue with the decision to "transition" Fadell away from Nest. When Google bought Nest in January 2014, the expectation was that a big infusion of Google's resources and money would supercharge Nest. Nest grew from 280 employees around the time of the Google acquisition to 1200 employees today. In Nest's first year as "a Google company," it used Google's resources to acquire webcam maker Dropcam for $555 million, and it paid an unknown amount for the smart home hub company Revolv. Duffy said Nest was given a "virtually unlimited budget" inside Alphabet. In return for all this investment, Nest delivered very little. Two-and-a-half years under Google/Alphabet, a quadrupling of the employee headcount, and half-a-billion dollars in acquisitions yielded minor yearly updates and a rebranded device. That's all.

39 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. BizX's Time Owning Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Virtually unlimited goodwill from users with no results

  2. This is what happens when you have by bravecanadian · · Score: 4, Informative

    a solution looking for a problem.. that causes other problems.

    1. Re:This is what happens when you have by RatPh!nk · · Score: 3, Informative

      In terms of energy efficiency, it is smart. The rate at which your house warms and cools, especially as a function of outside temperature, is a much better algorithm for controlling a heating and cooling system. However, I admit even as a gadget geek with some superfluous income it just isn't $250 cool, to me. Purely a values thing. I'd definitely be in for $150, maybe at $200. Price point is just off for what it does.

      --
      Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
    2. Re:This is what happens when you have by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a solution looking for a problem.. that causes other problems.

      It was a solution for two problems:

      .
      1) how to gather information about the interior of people's houses

      2) how to get people to install yet another advertisement screen in their houses.

      To your point, the problem with Nest is that the solutions were not for problems that the people buying the device had, Nest was a solution to Nest's business partners' problems.

    3. Re:This is what happens when you have by gmack · · Score: 2

      $250 per thermostat which is tolerable if you have central heating. In my case, my apartment has 7 thermostats that's almost $3000. On top of that, each device needs batteries which I would find myself constantly replacing.

    4. Re:This is what happens when you have by CrashNBrn · · Score: 2

      Math much? 8 Thermostats would be $2000. Also, the Nest has a C-line for power.

    5. Re:This is what happens when you have by known_coward_69 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      yep, some of us aren't so OCD that coming home to a too hot or cold home is a big deal. we tough it out for 30 minutes instead of turning the AC on remotely of having it run all day. this seems like a millennial product for the younger crowd who are still in their whiny everything must be perfect phase of their lives. us old people in the we're too cheap phase will tough it out and save the cash. and electricity isn't that expensive if you don't use a lot. in NYC my bill is like $70 most months unless it's a hot summer. i turn all the lights off, the TV, all the computers, nothing running or torrenting 24 hours a day, no SAN's or other geek nonsense sucking up electricity. absolutely no need for one of these gizmos or you buy a new home with all the energy efficiency bells and whistles so that this isn't a problem in the first place. and new homes already have automation options you can buy.

    6. Re:This is what happens when you have by green1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      My house is very unpredictably empty. But I've also seen nothing to indicate that Nest can handle that any better than my existing "dumb" thermostat.
      It can only detect people if they walk near the thermostat (which is in an upstairs hallway that I don't walk by very often), it can guess at schedules, but I can guarantee it can't guess at ours. I could manually program a schedule in to it, but it would always be wrong, and It would be just as easy to manually adjust the thermostat each time.

      Now if they implemented something that looked at multiple google calendars, and assumed that if there was nothing scheduled on any of them that there'd be someone home, then it would be useful, but right now it only works if your house is PREDICTABLY empty.

    7. Re:This is what happens when you have by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Other competitors have solved most of those problems, specifically Ecobee with their remote sensors that you can put in different rooms. You can then set schedules that ignore some sensors at certain times - for example, I don't really care what the temperature is in my office when I'm in my bedroom sleeping, so pay no attention to that.

      The remote sensors also have movement sensing too, so you don't have to walk past the thermostat, but any sensor that you can put wherever you please. They've also integrated with IFTTT to allow smartphone geolocation services.

      Nest may have been first, but they've done jack shit with that lead and now they're last.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    8. Re:This is what happens when you have by macs4all · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In terms of energy efficiency, it is smart. The rate at which your house warms and cools, especially as a function of outside temperature, is a much better algorithm for controlling a heating and cooling system.

      That's the "D" (Differential) part of the "PID" (Proportional Integral Differential, or "Proportioner Integrator Differentiator") Algorithm that thermostats and heating/cooling plants have been using for, well, since there were mechanical thermostats with that strange little setting inside that was marked with "0.4, 0.6, 0.8..."

      Look up "Heat Anticipator" sometime. Rate-of-Change when heating is NOT a novel concept. Far from it.

    9. Re:This is what happens when you have by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      If you live in Massachusetts, you can get a $100 rebate for buying one since it helps improve efficiency.

    10. Re:This is what happens when you have by b0bby · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have both a Nest and an ecobee; can't remember which one, but one of the two had a setting where it would switch to resistant heat instead of the heat pump if the internet reported temp outside was below ~32 degrees. I noticed the aux heat was coming on too much and found and changed that setting. I could see how that could add a good amount to your bill for sure.

    11. Re:This is what happens when you have by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      Some of us are old enough to have grown up w/o AC.

      But we were happy in those days...

    12. Re:This is what happens when you have by TheInternetGuy · · Score: 3, Informative

      "D" (Derivative) , because letters and stuff

      --
      If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
  3. Stay Frosty San Fransisco by yuriklastalov · · Score: 2

    I, for one, welcome our IoT overlords! If not Nest, then the next naked attempt to cash in on as much personal data as they can get away with extracting!

    All hail our benevolent Silicon Valley spy master overlords! HIP HIP HURRAH!

  4. Google overpaid... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Based on my experience in a company that went on a shopping spree during the run up to the dot com bust, Google overpaid and Nest had unrealistic expectations.

    1. Re:Google overpaid... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure their expectations were unrealistic, though I agree with the notion that they went on a blind buying spree.

      A virtually unlimited budget always results in unrealistic expectations. Reminds me the story of the entrepreneur who got money to build a widget factory. When investors showed up at the place of business, they saw a very fancy office and employees playing foosball. They asked to see the widget factory. The entrepreneur said he needed more money to build the widget factory, as he spent all the money on the office. Needless to say, everyone had unrealistic expectations and the office got shut down. Saw quite a few fancy offices during the dot com bust.

    2. Re:Google overpaid... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it just always seemed like a certain, bizarre brand of hubris to want to show off all the pretty server LEDs as proof that you were doing something important.

      In most tech companies the real work happens at desks and it looks boring as hell. The blinkenlichten in the server room are the only visually impressive part of the whole enterprise. Might as well put it on display...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. Re:Too lazy to google by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Internet of Things - Devices to control your home.*

    *As long as company doesn't brick your devices because they're too old.

  6. Job security by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has the buying out of a smaller company EVER resulted in a better product for the consumer?

    Cheaper, maybe... but almost certainly more diluted as creative control and vision is coopted/usurped.

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re:Job security by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes.

      Apple purchased PA Semi, and now they have their own line of system-on-chip computers that have pushed other semiconductor and device manufacturers to constantly increase performance to compete.

      Purchasing PA Semi lead directly to the Apple A4 chip and it's successors, which led directly to Qualcomm, TI, and Samsung making better ARM chips to compete.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    2. Re:Job security by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Has the buying out of a smaller company EVER resulted in a better product for the consumer?

      Well, I don't know. Was pre-Google Android any good? Were there many devices with it for you to buy?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Job security by evilRhino · · Score: 2

      HP's purchase of Compaq ushered in an era where one could purchase HP stock at a 50% discount, and also indirectly led to the purchase of many political advertisements which subsidized many popular entertainment programs for public benefit.

  7. To be expected... by Junta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They released an overhyped thermostat. Google then spent 3.2 billion dollars... on a thermostat company.

    Sure they had vague ambitions of a connected home that jived with IoT, but all the company had really gotten into the world was a damn thermostat that could connect to the internet.

    No matter how good or bad that concept sounds, it was stupid to justify a 3.2 billion dollar investment on that one concrete thing.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:To be expected... by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      Unless 3.2 billion is just walking around money...

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  8. Perhaps it was Google's fault by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was all set to buy a couple of Nest devices for me house... right before Google purchased them.

    I don't want a bunch of Google data gathering devices in my house.

    I wouldn't say that was probably a common reaction, but I'm sure Google owning the company made other potential customers uneasy as well. If for no other reason than a company being bought means a device you buy may well have support yanked (as Google Nest did with one of the copies they acquired!).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  9. Nest temperature display is backwards by paulpach · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a Nest thermostat. It displays in large the temperature you set it to instead of the current room temperature. What the actual fuck? A mercury thermometer is smarter than this.

    There was a feature request for this opened in 2013, it has 1683 votes and its the third most popular feature request. You would think that even an entry level programmer would be able to fix that or add an option, but no, the feature has been completely ignored for years and contacting support about it only gives the reply "keep voting for it", even though that is clearly going to /dev/null. The other popular features request are equally ignored.

    I am very frustrated by the complete lack of support these devices have. The entire community web site is nothing more than a pacifier for nest owners.

    1. Re:Nest temperature display is backwards by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      are you serious - they only show the SET value and not the ACTUAL current value? no option to set the default large text for the one you want? not a split display, even?

      laughable, if that's really true.

      I don't expect much from google, though. they mark serious bugs as 'wontfix' and nothing will change their minds.

      they are all a lost cause.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Nest temperature display is backwards by paulpach · · Score: 2

      are you serious - they only show the SET value and not the ACTUAL current value? no option to set the default large text for the one you want? not a split display, even?

      They show both, the current and the set temperature, but the set temperature is in large in the center of the screen, and the current temperature is tiny. You have to actually get close to the thermostat to read it as opposed to glance at it from the other side of the room. Its an epic fail.

      Here is a pic. In that picture, the current room temperature is 78, and it is set to cool down to 75.

      There is no way to change this.

    3. Re:Nest temperature display is backwards by ljw1004 · · Score: 2

      Twice a day for the past month I've been telling my Nest to use 68 as my preferred temperature, not 72. It still hasn't figured out that I prefer 68. "learning thermostat" indeed.

  10. Google's tactics. by sshir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think Google buys all those companies just to acquire talent. Google is famous for rather hardnosed/pragmatic approach to managing it's workforce. Such an approach successfully weeds out bullshit artists (e.g. Marissa Mayer). Unfortunately this approach also fairly harsh on true visionaries.
    Apparently Google thinks that because bullshit artists outnumber visionaries as 1000 to 1, it's an acceptable loss.
    And to compensate for this they simply wait for other companies to cultivate the talent and then swoop in.

    1. Re:Google's tactics. by Cochonou · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Marissa Mayer worked for 13 years at Google. Could you please elaborate on how their management approach "successfully weeds out bullshit artists" in her case ?

  11. Fell for the hype, sold after 1 year by trout007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Florida so I liked the idea of a learning thermostat to save some money. Instead what I figured out (and should have known ahead of time) is that it is just better to keep the setpoint constant. Sure I saved $10/mo but the house was always muggy and uncomfortable. Part of the reason is I have a high efficiency A/C so when I keep the setpoint constant it just runs the low speed compressor and fan and keeps the house cool and dry. When the nest shut everything down to save energy when we returned it had to kick on the high speed to get back to temperature. I'd gladly pay $10/mo for a comfortable house and less wear and tear on my $10k A/C unit.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  12. About the only possibly way to botch Glass more by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    Don't forget that after abandoning Glass and the Explorers who paid a significant overcharge with the expectation of above-average service and support, Glass was "transitioned" to Fadell.

    Look where that got Glass - even more dead than it was when the Explorers program was canned with a device that was LESS functional than it was when it shipped to most users. (KitKat on Glass was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, it destroyed battery life, stability, and performance, and they never got it to perform anywhere close to what it delivered when running ICS. What's worse, the fixes they DID managed to get in over the summer of 2014 to make it suck less all got reverted out for the final software update in September/October 2014 or so, which rendered units near-useless. When delivered, my Glass unit easily got 24 hours of battery life with my typical usage patterns. After the final software update - my unit would usually run out of battery in 8 hours of sitting on a shelf doing absolutely nothing.)

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  13. ecobee by trevc · · Score: 2

    ecobee makes a much better thermostat.

  14. whaaat? by superwiz · · Score: 2

    Unlimited operating budged, increased staff and full autonomy. And he is complaining about what exactly? Oh, I get it -- the unlimited acquisition budget. Yep. Money is the root of all evil. And it looks like he's been struck with this pernicious curse and doesn't know what to do about it.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  15. Engaged, got input, a few minor fixes, no fuck ups by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They haven't fucked anything up. No beta, they didn't remove the "use classic" link from that horrid mobile site, haven't caused any problems. What they have done so far is engaged with the community, solicited input, and made small improvements that don't cause any new problems.

    If I thought any of the presidential candidates would do as well, I would have volunteered for their campaign. :)

    Come to think of it, MANY people consider Bill Clinton the best recent president. Why, what did he do? Mostly he spent his time dealing with sex scandals. He didn't muck up the growing economy that he inherited or do anything else too bad. His wife spent 8 years as a senator and is now likely to become president. Why, what did she do in her 8 years in the senate? She sponsored a total of three bills in her eight years:

    S. 3145: Name a road "Timothy J. Russert highway".

    S. 3613: Name a post office the "Major George Quamo Post Office Building."

    S. 1241: Designate a union building as a National Historic Site.

    That's it, in eight years as a senator. Apparently that's a great senator, one who should perhaps be president. By this measure, Whiplash should at least be vice president.

  16. Re:Engaged, got input, a few minor fixes, no fuck by mattack2 · · Score: 2

    Wait, aren't you being a hypocrite for praising Bill for (paraphrase) not doing much, yet attacking Hillary for doing the same?

    MAYBE (I'm not saying she did) she successfully FOUGHT AGAINST bills you didn't like, and caused them to not be passed.

  17. Re:Even better, before the world went digital by Aighearach · · Score: 2

    And by "as friendly as a vintage VCR," for the young readers I'll point out that that means any 8 year old could do it easily, but grandpa might refuse to even try because manuals are for wimps and buttons and lights are mysterious.

    It is almost exactly the same as setting the time on a digital watch, something even most kids did when they were slightly younger kids. Most families still have a digital clock somewhere in the house that gets set twice a year because of daylight saving time.

    I don't doubt it is easier if it was wifi or bt and you can set it from a smart phone, but it is only goes from easy to easier. It isn't worth a 1000% price increase to very many people.

    Because you'll still have to set it on a schedule; even if you want your smart house to be nosy and pay attention to if you're home or not, the tech just isn't good enough yet.