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Interview With A Craigslist Scammer (infoworld.com)
snydeq writes: Ever wonder what motivates people who swindle others on Craigslist? Roger Grimes did, so he set up a fake Harley Davidson ad on Craigslist and requested an interview with each scammer who replied to the ad. One agreed, and the man's answers shed light on the inner world of Craigslist scamming: "If you mean how often I make money from Craigslist, it depends on the day or week. Many weeks I make nothing. Some weeks I can get five people sending me money. But I respond to a lot of ads to get one email back. I'm not only doing Craigslist -- there are many similar places. I haven't counted, but many. It takes many emails to get paid. That's what I mean. Some weeks I lose money. It's harder than most people think. But I don't have to go into a place at a certain time and deal with bosses and customers. I can make my own time." Grimes asked the scammer a number of questions ranging from "How do you know when you have a good victim?" to "What country do you originate from?" and everything in-between. He ended the interview asking the scammer for any words of advice for readers. The scammer responded: "It's getting harder for business people like me to be successful, but if they [the victims] follow the rules it would be very hard for me to be successful. That's one of the surprises. My friends and I thought we would not be successful for so long, especially with how Craigslist is different now. But there is always someone looking to sell something who doesn't know the game."
Yes people still fall for that crap. Because most people are really stupid. and get more stupid when you trigger their "greed" center.
It's why the Here is a $100,000 check, can you cash it and send me the change.... I'll let you have an extra $1,000 for your trouble, obvious as hell scam works. Most people brains shut off when the greed center in their brain is triggered.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's why the Here is a $100,000 check, can you cash it and send me the change.... I'll let you have an extra $1,000 for your trouble, obvious as hell scam works. Most people brains shut off when the greed center in their brain is triggered.
The main problem here is that people think the bank has verified the authenticity of the check when they've "cleared" it and given you access to the money, and that any failure to spot a fake check is now their problem. Like if I go deposit some cash I got from a yard sale I expect the bank to either accept it or reject it. Not accept it now and two weeks later say "Hey, those bills you gave us a few weeks ago were counterfeit we're deducting $200 from your account". And you never get a second "real" confirmation that your bank got their money from the intra-bank system you only know when they don't. The system is pretty rigged against the somewhat clueless and gullible person who goes to a professional money handler that appears to say everything is okay.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I once overheard a conversation in a bank where someone went to deposit a check for seven times the asking price of an old moldy trailer that she was selling to someone in Slovakia who just had to have that very trailer. This was in a Swedish bank. The cashier was gaping in awe at what an amazing deal the customer had gotten. Another customer who heard it tried to tell both of them what was going on, but they didn't want to hear any of it. This was about one week into a massive flood of news reports about this type of scam, in all major news media in the country.
The cognitive dissonance may also be why he consented to the interview.
There is a good bit of diversity in scams, however. I've been reading up on the different varieties as I've been looking to make some sizeable purchases from China and the number of scammers operating among the legitimate manufacturers/service providers over there is disturbing.
For example, one involves freight forwarders. They actually do have your goods shipped to your port of destination - but they don't send you the bill of lading, so you can't prove that you actually own the goods and thus can't collect them from customs. They then demand huge sums for the bill of lading so that you can actually collect your goods.
A common one with legitimate manufacturers themselves is exploiting any terms that you didn't specify, especially "price inflation". Unless you have it spelled out, they'll charge you for all sorts of unexpected costs (after you've made your initial deposit, of course) on top of the agreed-upon price. And more common than actual scams are quality issues. It's usually easier for them to just decide to lose you as a potential repeat customer than to spend a lot of money ensuring quality or to fix production errors.
With actual scammers, and sometimes legitimate manufacturers, one's in big trouble if they don't use a service that allows them to dispute the charges (paypal, credit card, legitimate escrow service, etc) and instead get tricked into using western union or other non-contestable source. Even if you're dealing with a legitimate supplier, once they have your money, they have relatively little motivation to follow through. Few have any sort of reputation that they need to protect; they can always just rebrand. And sometimes the company is legitimate but an employee is acting rogue.
Verification is made harder because sometimes the people buyers are supposed to be able to trust are in cahoots with the crooks - for example, there was a scandal a while back involving Alibaba with this sort of thing. An important part of working with foreign manufacturers is ordering an inspection (to see if you're dealing with a real factory that can actually make the real thing you're ordering, and to inspect produced goods before making the final payment). But there's no legal requirements for a person to meet in order to be able to classify themselves as an "inspector" or an "inspection company".
The whole thing is a minefield :P
Monkeywrench Ex Machina.
While I don't disagree with your first point, your second assumes a legitimate company. Most of these scams let the victim think that the person needing to move the cash is not able to work with the banking system. A popular one involves someone needing to get money out of a failed state quickly. They make up all sorts of plausible sounding reasons why a bank wouldn't deal with them (in some cases, hinting that the money was acquired illegally, so you shouldn't feel bad about taking 10% for a few minutes' work because you're just stealing from a criminal).
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Did you read the article? Don't assume that he's a "little", "low-rent" conman. He may well be in a country where the scams he is pulling off, net him an income that allow him to live very comfortably and have considerable pull in local society. And in many developing countries, the line between "businessman" and "conman" is far more blurry than people in North America or Western Europe might think.
A check is just an order to pay from a certain account to either the specified person or the person cashing in the check. If the account is not with the bank the check is presented to, you have interbanking transfer. And you have transactions (read an RDBMS manual to learn about transactions!). Basicly one bank has to lock the account at the other bank, check the balance, withdraw the money and then credit it to its own account. For security reasons, no bank can simply lock an account at another bank. Instead, the transaction is split into two transactions between the banks and a clearing point. The bank the check is presented to is booking against that account at another bank at the clearing point, creating a short time debt. Then the clearing point is performing all transactions with the other bank, and thus creating a short time credit voucher. The debt and the credit voucher are then cleared at the clearing point, thus the name. If they don't match, both transactions are rolled back the next time the banks and the clearing point contact each other. A copy of the check is mailed to the other bank. So it takes at least three transaction runs just to get money from one checking account to the bank to cash out a check. For security reasons, the transaction runs are done several times (I know of one bank which does it at least five times with five different ways to transfer the transaction file, just to make sure the transaction file is complete, not hampered with and authorized).
Now the other bank has an account where money was withdrawn. The owner of said account has a certain time limit (depends on the Terms of Services, but can easily be two weeks) to dispute the withdrawal and to cancel it. If he says that the check is fraudulent, the original check will be inspected at the other bank, and if there is anything fishy about the check, the transactions are reversed. So it can take easily more than two weeks until a check finally clears. And it has nothing to do with incompetent and slow banks.