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Rolls-Royce Eyes Autonomous Ships, Expects Remote-Controlled Cargo Ships By 2020 (pcmag.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via PC Magazine: Speaking at a recent symposium in Amsterdam, Rolls-Royce vice president of innovation for marine, Oskar Levander, said, "The technologies needed to make remote and autonomous ships a reality exist." In partnership with the Advanced Autonomous Waterborne Applications Initiative (AAWA) project, Rolls-Royce, DNV GL, Inmarsat, Deltamarin, NAPA, Brighthouse Intelligence, Finferries, and ESL Shipping are leading the $7 million effort. Unmanned ships could save money, weight, and space, making way for more cargo and improving reliability and productivity, the AAWA said in a recent white paper. "The increased level of safety onboard will be provided by additional systems," Rolls-Royce said on its website. "Our future solutions will reduce need for human-machine interaction by automating selected tasks and processes, whilst keeping the human at the center of critical decision making and onboard expertise." Initial testing of sensor arrays in a range of operating and climatic conditions is already underway in Finland. Phase II of the project will continue through the end of 2017. Rolls-Royce plans to launch the first remote-controlled cargo ships by 2020, with autonomous boats in the water within the next two decades. Rolls-Royce was in the news last week when they unveiled their first driverless vehicle called The Vision Next 100.

147 comments

  1. Da Vinci FTW (nt) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  2. I can see how this might be useful... by sconeu · · Score: 2

    Remote controlled/autonomous ships near the Horn of Africa...

    Fine, the pirates board, but they can't commandeer the ship, it's still going where the shipping company wants it.

    Of course, that only lasts until someone breaks the remote control protocol and sells it to the pirates.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      Or the pirates find a way to cut the data link (likely just need to due some rain fade / knock the dish out of alignment).

    2. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Isn't it a good way to get killed by drones or poisonous gas or something like that if 100% of the people on board are certifiable bad guys?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Commonly that's not seen as a good way. In such situation, the use of deadly force is deemed acceptable in defence of the crew IIRC (and even then often not used, for fear of escalation). But if there is no crew... This is a bit like setting booby traps in your home to nail burglars: if the trap actuall injures or kills the burglar, you're off to jail according to the law in a good many countries.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re: I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because an engine can't be destroyed.

      Oh wait, you're a fucking moron.

    5. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Informative

      Speaking as an experienced sailor, this is by far the biggest problem with autonomous ships.

    6. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by quenda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a bit like setting booby traps in your home to nail burglars:

      Two big differences: booby traps often get unintended targets. the drones or gas here would happen only after a human verifies they are real pirates on board, and not just stowaways. Secondly, the law for piracy on the high seas has always been very different to burglary. You don't hang burglars. But lethal force against pirates is fine by me. Its not like you can sent the village constable around to question them.
       

    7. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And not salvage law? These are "abandoned" ships at sea.

    8. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by swb · · Score: 1

      The response to piracy was entirely pusillanimous.

      Shipping companies should have been allowed armed guards, you might have even called them "marines" and if fired upon by a pirate ship they should have been allowed to return fire. Even in Somalia, piracy would have been filed away as a bad idea and would have come to an end before it became a thing.

      Any oceangoing ship in calm enough waters to board from a small boat is a stable enough platform to fire .50 BMG rounds from and .50 BMG rounds have enough distance and power to be a highly effective deterrent. They'll punch right through the shitty little boats the pirates use at distances beyond their AK47s or RPGs. You'd end up with dead pirates either way, shot or drowned.

      The moral trepidation of the shipping companies and the governments is mystifying -- nearly all of them allow for all manner of armed private security. If I start shooting at an armored car crew unloading cash at the strip mall and try to take the armored car, the guards will shoot back and if they kill me it will barely make the back pages of the metro section in the newspaper.

      Yet for some reason there was resistance to the idea of shooting government-less militia members pirating an entire ship and its crew? That's pathetic. Worse yet was the military's police response of detaining pirates. They should have just shelled them and let them sink. We can show our modern restraint by not hanging them from the superstructure, sailing into their harbor and shelling their ports.

    9. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or the pirates simply breach the engine room turn the engines off and anchor or toe it to the nearest shore.

    10. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Jzanu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nope, all arming merchant ships did historically was increase costs. The best value in concentration of force is a Navy, and it's action is not for purely material protection without real risk to life. Despite your ultra-violent fantasies the real world works very differently, and the only outcome for what you propose is an arms race that results in more unnecessary deaths, and only increasing losses to shipping increasing insurance costs.

    11. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by eth1 · · Score: 2

      Commonly that's not seen as a good way. In such situation, the use of deadly force is deemed acceptable in defence of the crew IIRC (and even then often not used, for fear of escalation). But if there is no crew... This is a bit like setting booby traps in your home to nail burglars: if the trap actuall injures or kills the burglar, you're off to jail according to the law in a good many countries.

      I would imagine a totally autonomous ship could have all internal spaces kept flooded with nitrogen or carbon dioxide as a fire suppression measure. No need for poison or anything malicious, when anyone that goes in without proper gear suffocates.

    12. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think a ship would go very far if you just toed it, unless you're Superman or something.

    13. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of the far more logical. If automated ships are possible, then why do current vessels not sail with just four crew members. Four pilots to steer the vessel, each taking a shift and one spare. Apparently a whole lot of maintenance needs to be carried out to keep those vessels going. Think of the profound stupid of Rolls Royce managements, seriously profound stupid. You have a multi-million dollar automated vessel, that needs maintenance, so what do you do, you stop it idle in port, doing fuck all, whilst that maintenance is down, catch up maintenance the most destructive kind, replacement versus repair.

      I know how to save money, rather than having a ship idle in port whilst it is being maintained, we will put on a maintenance crew to do continuous maintenance whilst it travels from port to port. Duplication of high wear systems to allow switch over and ship idle time is minimised. You still have substantially the same maintenance cost, just a slight premium for doing it away from home, versus extended downtime catch up maintenance, in questionable ports.

      So under international law, if an automated ship breakdown is it immediately subject to ship salvage laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    14. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Under international law pirates are hostis humani generis. What you do to them in international waters is constrained only by the flag you're flying and the amount of bad PR you're willing to put up with.

    15. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Shipping companies did employ armed security that did indeed fire on pirates when the Somali problem was at its peak. You can find video on the web.

      The big problem is the weapons you're carrying have to be legal in both the country you're shipping from and the country you're shipping to. Since so much of it was destined for Europe, where almost every weapon is illegal, your options are limited. Most of the security companies operating in that region had their own boats to move guards - they would board with their weapons in international waters and debark with their weapons in international waters.

    16. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I doubt that the customers would want poison gas seeping into their products during shipping, even if Loyd's was up for the idea; but it wouldn't be a complete surprise to hear of an unmanned bulk carrier of some sort being flushed with dry nitrogen as a preservative; and some idiots encountering inert gas asphyxiation.

    17. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Load it up with some Life saving robots.

      http://emilyrobot.com/

    18. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the next international trade deal with repeal all these quaint laws which obligate helping other people in distress. The Shareholders Demand It.

    19. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Shipping companies did employ armed security that did indeed fire on pirates when the Somali problem was at its peak. You can find video on the web.

      The big problem is the weapons you're carrying have to be legal in both the country you're shipping from and the country you're shipping to. Since so much of it was destined for Europe, where almost every weapon is illegal, your options are limited. Most of the security companies operating in that region had their own boats to move guards - they would board with their weapons in international waters and debark with their weapons in international waters.

      They solved that problem by just throwing the weapons overboard. Half a dozen AR-15s, a couple rifles in .308 or 30-06 and 1k rounds for each is two day's pay for the guys doing security. A trivial extra cost.

      Anyway, this is a self-inflicted problem. Africans are going to do that stuff. Letting it continue caused it to continue. Had they shot at the first dozen attempts there wouldn't be a problem at all.

    20. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Think of the profound stupid of Rolls Royce managements, seriously profound stupid

      Perhaps the thinking is automated bots to repair the automated bots, automated bots to repair those bots and so on. "Automated bots all the way down." ;)

    21. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      If anything, the presence of our Navy (Dutch) is encouraging them. No shots are fired, pirates are arrested and shipped to the Netherlands where they are convicted, after which they can apply for asylum. Beats crossing the Mediterranean in a leaky boat and paying thousands for the privilege.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    22. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You are amazingly naive.

    23. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Yes because those poor Somali pirates own vessels capable of towing a megaton cargo ship.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    24. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Or the pirates find a way to cut the data link (likely just need to due some rain fade / knock the dish out of alignment).

      or the pirates hack into the system and sit there in china or russia and steer the ships into their dock in somalia.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    25. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Isn't it a good way to get killed by drones or poisonous gas or something like that if 100% of the people on board are certifiable bad guys?

      cover the entire ship inside and out with something emitting hard radiation when it leaves port. not sure how to unload it when it gets where it's going though

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    26. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by gzuckier · · Score: 2

      Shipping companies did employ armed security that did indeed fire on pirates when the Somali problem was at its peak. You can find video on the web.

      The big problem is the weapons you're carrying have to be legal in both the country you're shipping from and the country you're shipping to. Since so much of it was destined for Europe, where almost every weapon is illegal, your options are limited. Most of the security companies operating in that region had their own boats to move guards - they would board with their weapons in international waters and debark with their weapons in international waters.

      They solved that problem by just throwing the weapons overboard. Half a dozen AR-15s, a couple rifles in .308 or 30-06 and 1k rounds for each is two day's pay for the guys doing security. A trivial extra cost.

      Anyway, this is a self-inflicted problem. Africans are going to do that stuff. Letting it continue caused it to continue. Had they shot at the first dozen attempts there wouldn't be a problem at all.

      alternately, if the big factory fishing fleets hadn't overfished the waters off somalia which had been the foundation of the region's economy for hundreds of years, thereby forcing the seagoing population into other lines of work there wouldn't be a problem either.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    27. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by gzuckier · · Score: 2

      I doubt that the customers would want poison gas seeping into their products during shipping, even if Loyd's was up for the idea; but it wouldn't be a complete surprise to hear of an unmanned bulk carrier of some sort being flushed with dry nitrogen as a preservative; and some idiots encountering inert gas asphyxiation.

      if leonardo and kate can have sex in some guy's car on the Titanic, i don't see why filling it with nitrogen would be an objectionable alternative.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    28. Re:I can see how this might be useful... by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

      No need to kill the bad guys, In the event of boarding or link disruption just disable the engine and let the ship sit dead in the water until help arrives. If they can't run it, they can't steal it. The most they could do would be to start offloading the cargo, which would be pretty difficult and time-consuming at sea.

  3. Arr by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Some pirate somewhere is salivating at the thought of unmanned ships. I wonder if they are giving any thought to fending off pirates with an autonomous ship.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Arr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about by having no external openings

    2. Re:Arr by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      IDK, the crew of ships these days doesn't have that much capabilities to fend off pirates anyway. So I doubt much will change, except that pirates won't be able to kidnap humans, only non-living stuff.

    3. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      how about by having no external openings

      I would love your thoughts on making a practical intermodal container ship which is fully sealed to the outside.

    4. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Are you unfamiliar with the notion of a bank vault?

    5. Re:Arr by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      Are you unfamiliar with the notion of a bank vault?

      Not one that floats and is somehow impervious to attacks by well-equipped, roving gangs of pirates, no.

      I've also never seen a bank vault with an engine that could be broken or damaged, either, or one that could be towed to a location where it could be plundered at leisure.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    6. Re:Arr by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      Are you familiar with the notion of an intermodal container? TEUs are the opposite of small, and routinely are stacked on deck until the ship is barely above waterline. Building any "vault" around some adds weight that would reduce load capacity unacceptably.

    7. Re:Arr by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      The whole ship doesn't need to be sealed; just the control spaces and circuit runs to the engine, rudder actuator, and so on. Said spaces could even be permanently flooded while underway with halon or nitrogen or CO2 to, you know, cut down on the risk of fire. And even then, the seals and/or gas don't have to hold out forever, just long enough to rendezvous with whatever naval warship is operating in that zone.

      1) Pirates board.
      2) Remote operator notifies the navy, is instructed to send the ship to whatever coordinates.
      3) Ship sets flank speed, steers towards rendezvous with navy.
      4) Pirates have a choice, jump off, or wait for the navy to show up.
      5) If pirates jump off, operator notifies the navy, and returns ship to its pre-set course.
      6) If pirates stay on the ship, the navy has the convenience of knowing for certain that there are zero friendlies or hostages on board. This makes the boarding action considerably simpler.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    8. Re:Arr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhh doors with no handles or hinges on the outside.

    9. Re:Arr by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      Why should your ambiguous navy board an automated ship where no human lives are at risk? I think you've been playing too many video games and have forgotten that soldiers are human too and have families, etc. Professionals are not for risk taking when human lives are not at stake.

    10. Re:Arr by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      First, each container must be airtight and watertight (appropriate gaskets, etc.) to at least 200 feet, and locked using an electronic lock with no external access other than by plugging in a special controller that powers up the lock and uses RSA or EC crypto to authenticate itself to the lock controller. Second, to protect itself against pirates, the interior of the ship must be airtight and watertight to several thousand feet of pressure, and must have appropriate pumps and chambers such that when attacked, it can pump all of the air from one set of chambers into another, while allowing water to take up the space.

      Pirates get on the boat. Boat submerges. Pirates end up in the drink.

      Problem solved.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:Arr by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      Killing pirates has been one of the primary duties of navies pretty much since there's been such a thing as navies. It's kind of in the job description.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    12. Re:Arr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should your ambiguous navy board an automated ship where no human lives are at risk? I think you've been playing too many video games and have forgotten that soldiers are human too and have families, etc. Professionals are not for risk taking when human lives are not at stake.

      I have a solution for that,, straight out of vidja games too:

      Robot Navy Seals.

      It's ok to put robot lives at stake in defense of more expensive robot lives right?

    13. Re:Arr by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      Who pays to retrofit all existing shipping tonnage? How is your new "modern" ship with those unnecesarily complex systems and failure points requiring increased maintenance competitive in the market? Hint: Nobody will, and it isn't.

    14. Re:Arr by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      The purpose isn't the same, so the mission isn't the same. Killing pirates when long-range communication at sea didn't exist, everything was powered by slow wind and navigation was guess-work isn't equivalent to killing them now, not by a long shot.

    15. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      I sure do hope dgatwood's reply was a sarcastic one, demonstrating my point.

    16. Re:Arr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess he must have meant like the actual design concept RR wants to use?

        http://www.pcmag.com/news/345638/rolls-royce-eyes-autonomous-ships

    17. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Its unmanned. Vhy would it need to float?

    18. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 0

      If it is unmanned. It would not even neeed to have a "deck"

    19. Re:Arr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called drag - travel on the surface of water is much faster than underneath for the same fuel use.

    20. Re:Arr by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Who pays to retrofit all existing shipping tonnage? How is your new "modern" ship with those unnecesarily complex systems and failure points requiring increased maintenance competitive in the market? Hint: Nobody will, and it isn't.

      The question wasn't whether anybody would be willing to do it, but rather whether it was practical to create. If your definition of practical has to extend to whether it would be practical to replace all shipping boxes in the world, then clearly the answer is "no", but that would be true for any solution that anyone could possibly come up with, no matter how simple, because there are just too many shipping boxes in use.

      And the reason it probably won't happen isn't technical, but rather statistical; the odds of pirates attacking an unmanned freighter are tiny, and the expected losses are so small relative to the value of the total cargo shipped that the ability to submerge to prevent piracy would not be worth the cost.

      With that said, if the lack of security crew on the boats eventually results in piracy becoming more popular by several orders of magnitude, then at some point you'll reach a threshold beyond which it actually would make sense to submerge the cargo to protect it. And at that point, the market will decide that it makes sense, and they'll start building submersible transport ships and sea boxes that are waterproof down to a few hundred feet underwater. Unless and until that happens, obviously, it won't.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    21. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Fair enough... but the point about it being unmanned remains. It doesn't have to be build to work the same way as a regular boat, and probably wouldn't even have a "deck" for anything to be put on. I'd imagine things would just go inside the hull, much like a tanker type of vessel.

    22. Re:Arr by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      From the looks of the PR renderings, they seem to be getting dangerously impractical in the pursuit of everything-will-be-white-and-curved-in-the-future aesthetics as it is. Yeah, futuristic and stuff; but ports are not going to be amused by anything that makes loading and unloading containers slower or more expensive.

    23. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      I'd imagine things would just go inside the hull, much like a tanker type of vessel.

      Have you seen how they stack containers? It's handwaving to say "things would just go inside the hull".

    24. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      You mean a ship which is incapable of carrying 1/10th of the containers that a modern ship does? A ship which is therefore economically nonviable? (But sure does make for a pretty press package!)

    25. Re:Arr by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Yeah... that's gonna suck for legitimate maintenance.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    26. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      The would-be pirates would have to get inside the hull to get at the contents. This hull could be well over a foot thick, and trying to break through it coupled with the lack of any kind of deck would generally make it infeasible to try and take anything from it when it is not docked. If the engines should fail, the ship could phone home immediately, and with GPS tracking, it is unlikely that would-be pirates would be able to tow it to where they wanted to open it up at their leisure before they were caught, unless the pirates happen to be able to deploy a faraday cage that is large enough to cover the entire ship they intent to plunder before they are caught.

    27. Re:Arr by dywolf · · Score: 1

      please stop posting until you learn what you are talking about.
      it is clear you know nothing about ships, container ships, or anything resembling practical design.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    28. Re:Arr by dywolf · · Score: 1

      This is what a container ship looks like without containers:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      They already do have a minimum of decking several stories below the top of the gunwale, with a minimum amount of hull and bulkheads needed for structural integrity to carry the load of containers stacked some 10-20 tall.

      what?
      did you think the containers you can see above the gunwale were the only ones, just sitting on top of a deck, and the interior was empty?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    29. Re:Arr by dywolf · · Score: 1

      here.
      educate thyself:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    30. Re:Arr by dywolf · · Score: 2

      submersible ships are just as stupid as the "bank vault" idea.

      too much added weight, added complexity, no real gain.
      you also make loading/unloading an inefficient nightmare compared to the current system of gantries and cranes.

      really though, the entire idea of entirely unmanned cargo ships is foolish anyway. they are already highly automated with the crew only there for emergencies and tasks that cannot be automated. it's why they already operate with typical crews (note difference from max crew) of 4-15 people depending on ship size/type.

      the place the real unmanned advances are being made is at the loading/unloading area, with the gantries also being more and more automated. with computer databases and preplanning of loading so that multiple container shipments are stacked together in order of delivery and location (rather than being spread out randomly among the 14,000+ containers, at different locations and depths within the stacks on ship) it's all very close to maximum efficiency.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    31. Re:Arr by dywolf · · Score: 2

      you know that an enclosed ship IS a faraday cage right? its why the antennae's are on the outside of the hull. for an enclosed ship all they'd have to do is disconnect the antenna.

      a foot thick? for a vessel 1000' long, 250' wide, and a few hundred tall?
      congratulations, you just more than doubled the weight of the ship.
      that's that many fewer containers it can now carry.

      and again: have fun unloading 14,000 containers from your idiot design theory. there's a reason the top is open. you have twenty rows of containers? guess what: the unloading dock has 20 gantries side by side, so that each row can be unloaded at the same time. and they reach across the entire width of the ship.
      to get anything close to that efficiency you'd have to have a gantry system within the enclosed cargo space, one for each rank and file of containers aboard, to move the containers to the opening to be received by the unloading gantry on the dock. but that's even more weight and complexity.

      again: stop until you actually learn something about cargo ship operations.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    32. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      you know that an enclosed ship IS a faraday cage right? its why the antennae's are on the outside of the hull. for an enclosed ship all they'd have to do is disconnect the antenna.

      An antenna does not have to be very large, and may be positioned in a location that is not physically accessible unless the vessel is docked.

      a foot thick?

      Sure... many large ships have hulls that thick.

      to get anything close to that efficiency you'd have to have a gantry system within the enclosed cargo space,

      Or you have the containers capable of driving themselves to where they need to be for pickup.

    33. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 0

      The interior of a ship that is manned is generally engineered to be accessible while the ship is in motion. An unmanned ship has no accessibility requirements.

    34. Re:Arr by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      how about by having no external openings

      I would love your thoughts on making a practical intermodal container ship which is fully sealed to the outside.

      inertia drive. (not a real thing)

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    35. Re:Arr by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Its unmanned. Vhy would it need to float?

      now we're talking. undersea railroads. nuclear powered and unmanned.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    36. Re:Arr by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      If it is unmanned. It would not even neeed to have a "deck"

      " I hereby christen this ship the SS Deckless Wonder"

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    37. Re:Arr by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Killing pirates has been one of the primary duties of navies pretty much since there's been such a thing as navies. It's kind of in the job description.

      that's why i purchase my music from Itunes.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    38. Re:Arr by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      submersible ships are just as stupid as the "bank vault" idea.

      too much added weight, added complexity, no real gain. you also make loading/unloading an inefficient nightmare compared to the current system of gantries and cranes.

      really though, the entire idea of entirely unmanned cargo ships is foolish anyway. they are already highly automated with the crew only there for emergencies and tasks that cannot be automated. it's why they already operate with typical crews (note difference from max crew) of 4-15 people depending on ship size/type.

      the place the real unmanned advances are being made is at the loading/unloading area, with the gantries also being more and more automated. with computer databases and preplanning of loading so that multiple container shipments are stacked together in order of delivery and location (rather than being spread out randomly among the 14,000+ containers, at different locations and depths within the stacks on ship) it's all very close to maximum efficiency.

      all cargo will be carried on automated or semiautomated ships which will also serve as cruise ships which are only chartered by NRA tour groups.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    39. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 2

      You're talking out of your ass now.

      Oil tankers are on the order of 1" thick (per hull)

      Armorer hulls never have approached 12" thick.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      and you CONTINUE to ignore loading and unloading.

    40. Re:Arr by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      To be pedantic, battleships have had 12" armor (the thickest naval armor I'm aware of was about two feet of armor on the front of the main turrets on the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi), but not hulls. Instead of building up the hull, it was considered more worthwhile to attach expensive and specially-made armor plates.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    41. Re:Arr by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You are apparently using a new definition of "practical" that I was previously unaware of. "Practical" typically means something that can be put into practice without excessive costs of any sort. It means something an expert in the field would consider as an actual possibility. Your idea of redoing all the containers in the world and making all the container ships in the world submersible is exceedingly impractical.

      The reason it wouldn't happen is that there are much cheaper and more reliable ways of getting that level of protection if desired, including armed guards and massively increased naval patrols. It isn't a matter of the risk not justifying the expense, it's a matter of the expense being way out of line with what can be accomplished.

      There are advantages to submersible cargo ships. They don't need icebreakers. They aren't affected by storms. The fact that there are none in service might tell you something.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    42. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      a one-inch thick hull would not be able to withstand even a single torpedo. Battleships are typically made to endure at least one hit, and generally have quite thick hulls. If you are talking about a vessel that has no manpower defending it, you are probably going to be willing to invest in higher calibre defensive armor plating than what you might find on common commercial ships anyways.

    43. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Anything that is unmanned does not have to have the same kinds of practical design considerations as a manned vessel.

    44. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      Not only did I never claim battleships and their ilk had 1" thick hulls, you're confusing the concept of hull thickness with armor belt thickness.

      Unless you can learn to read this is the end.

      Container ships, which is what we are talking about, do not and never have had anything within an order of magnitude of 12" hulls, despite your claims.

    45. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Yes, but container ships that are manned would not typically need them... unmanned ships would need to have fairly secured protection against would-be pirates because there is nobody on the ship to otherwise stop them. The sheer difficulty of breaking into the ship would be the only thing that would keep such a ship's cargo safe.

    46. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      1 - NOBODY HAS EVER HAD 12" THICK HULLS DESPITE YOUR CLAIM

      2 - YOUR "VAULT" CONCEPT OF A CARGO SHIP IGNORES HOW CARGO SHIPS ARE LOADED AND UNLOADED.

      3 - YOUR "SACRIFICE CARGO CAPACITY FOR ARMOR PLATING" CONCEPT IGNORES THE ECONOMICS OF THE FREIGHT INDUSTRY. THE NAME OF THE GAME IS VOLUME AND A SHIP WHICH CAN'T DELIVER THAT IS NOT PROFITABLE TODAY, AND A 15 MEMBER CREW ISN'T THE REASON.

      "Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?"

    47. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      4 - YOU SEEM TO BE UNDER THE FALSE BELIEF THAT STOLEN CARGO IS HOW PIRATES MAKE MONEY.

      and like all the other concepts, you are mistaken, over and over and over, and over, and over.

    48. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      1. The Iowa class battleship has a foot thick armor on the hull. WW2 ships used armor that was sometimes even thicker. Washington class had 16 inch armor for instance.

      2. cargo ships conventionally have to have accommodations for people. The entire ship, other than the engine room(s), could be one big vault, with the entire top being a doorway to allow access to the interior, much like the old space shuttle. It would be no more difficult to load or unload than existing cargo ships.

      3. Presumably, there are reasons why they want to run autonomous ships in the first place. If it isn't profitable, obviously they won't do it. I was simply suggesting that looking at things from a perspective of ships that are always designed for accommodating at least a few human passengers may create limitations on what designs are practical, and if we drop those assumptions, other possibilities may surface.

      4. Actually, I thought generally pirates made their money by robbing the people on the ship... but then I wasn't the one who initially suggested that these ships would be vulnerable to piracy. I was only proposing that it may be possible to mitigate such vulnerability, assuming it it were to exist in the first place, by incorporating design changes into such a vessel that would not be practical if the vessel needed to carry a human crew.

    49. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      1. The Iowa class battleship has a foot thick armor on the hull. WW2 ships used armor that was sometimes even thicker. Washington class had 16 inch armor for instance.

      ARMOR BELT != HULL.

      REGARDLESS YOU CLAIMED SUCH HULLS ARE COMMON, THEY DON'T EXIST, MUCH LESS COMMONLY. STOP TRYING TO BACKTRACK. HOW MUCH DID YOU PAY FOR THAT UID?

      2. cargo ships conventionally have to have accommodations for people. The entire ship, other than the engine room(s), could be one big vault, with the entire top being a doorway to allow access to the interior, much like the old space shuttle. It would be no more difficult to load or unload than existing cargo ships.

      15 PEOPLE AND THEIR LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEMS ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT CONSIDERATION IN AN INTERMODAL SHIP DESIGN.

      DOORS WHICH OPEN LIKE THE SPACE SHUTTLE, YET ARE HUNDREDS OF FEET LONG AND 12" THICK WOULD BE AN ENGINEERING MARVEL, WOULD COST MORE THAN THE LOSS OF DOZENS OF PIRATE RAIDS, COST CARGO CAPACITY, AND PROTECT AGAINST A THREAT WHICH DOES NOT EXIST.

      3. Presumably, there are reasons why they want to run autonomous ships in the first place. If it isn't profitable, obviously they won't do it. I was simply suggesting that looking at things from a perspective of ships that are always designed for accommodating at least a few human passengers may create limitations on what designs are practical, and if we drop those assumptions, other possibilities may surface.

      HUMANS ON THE SHIP DOES NOT PREVENT ARMOR TODAY. FULL STOP. ARMOR DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE IT PROTECTS AGAINST A NON THREAT.

      4. Actually, I thought generally pirates made their money by robbing the people on the ship... but then I wasn't the one who initially suggested that these ships would be vulnerable to piracy. I was only proposing that it may be possible to mitigate such vulnerability, assuming it it were to exist in the first place, by incorporating design changes into such a vessel that would not be practical if the vessel needed to carry a human crew.

      THEY TAKE HOSTAGES FOR RANSOM. SELLING 100,000 PAIRS OF NIKE SHOES IS NOT PRACTICAL WHEN YOU'RE RAIDING WITH SPEEDBOATS, NOR IS IT PROFITABLE EVEN IF YOU HAD CARGO ROOM. CHINA SHIPS TOILET PAPER TO THE US. TOILET PAPER.

    50. Re:Arr by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I find it bizarre that so many people want to angrily rail on my remarks, but nobody reaily criticized the person who suggested that piracy might even somehow be a problem int the first place.

      But hey.... if you want to continue to waste your 0x40-0x5f ascii characters on arguing with me, I won't stop you.

    51. Re:Arr by maeka · · Score: 1

      you confuse my beat-the-ignorant-over-the-head caps with anger.

  4. Thats all great by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

    Until the ship gets infected with the Da Vinci as a ruse to blame innocent hackers because they copied the garbage file

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Thats all great by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      I hope the oil ones are forced to have a maned crew on them.

    2. Re:Thats all great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are lions and horses going to get a ship to go anywhere?

    3. Re: Thats all great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My mane is approaching 3ft. Where do I sign up?

  5. well there goes our jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There goes our jobs.

  6. $7,000,000 effort? by maeka · · Score: 1

    I rather suspect they've spent more on PR about the project than in R&D if that's all they're actually investment.

    I wouldn't call that a "strong move" on their part, not by a longshot. What's that, .001% of their non-automotive, non-nuclear, market cap?

    1. Re:$7,000,000 effort? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      I rather suspect they've spent more on PR about the project than in R&D if that's all they're actually investment.

      I wouldn't call that a "strong move" on their part, not by a longshot. What's that, .001% of their non-automotive, non-nuclear, market cap?

      RR R&D PR

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  7. Does this pass the smell test? by dlleigh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unmanned ships could save money, weight, and space...

    Seriously? The crew and crew quarters take up a significant fraction of the operating budget, weight and volume of a modern cargo ship? I'm not buying it.

    Take a look at some of these ships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship

    1. Re:Does this pass the smell test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much would you want to be paid to be fully accountable for one of those ships Captain dlleigh?

    2. Re:Does this pass the smell test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1. Labor is easily the least of the worries for container ships.

      Personally, if I were a shipping company, I'd keep the status quo for sea vessels. Humans are a cheap application for this task and automated ships will likely bring an unprecedented amount of loss due to piracy, technical faults, and the lack of intuition when something goes wrong.

      That being said, the risk potential probably would be much more acceptable for a smaller scale of rivers and inland lakes, where a vessel would arguably be easier to salvage if there is an issue.

    3. Re: Does this pass the smell test? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And labor costs will only go down, as robots replace web coders. Soon it'll be cheap enough that shipping companies can replace the engines and fuel with human rowers fed seaweed.

    4. Re:Does this pass the smell test? by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      That being said, the risk potential probably would be much more acceptable for a smaller scale of rivers and inland lakes, where a vessel would arguably be easier to salvage if there is an issue.

      You have it entirely flipped, this is the exact opposite of reality and smaller rivers and inlets are the most dangerous places for a ship big enough to want automation. The river may look wide, but the channel in which bigger ships can actually travel inside a river is often very small due to depth constraints. A ship running aground in a channel can shut down commerce there for days, weeks, or months depending on the severity, and a collision can cause hundreds of millions in damage to fixed infrastructure. The risk and concern is so severe that most ports have what we call "pilots" that are specialized ship drivers who know that port location - they drive out to the large ship in a small boat, climb the ladder, and drive the ship to its berth. It can take up to 2-3 hours just to dock a ship at one of the outer terminals because of the low speed and safety factors. The turning tolerances and weather constraints make it very dangerous and difficult should something go wrong.

    5. Re:Does this pass the smell test? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never met a shipowner. They are beyond cheap. If they can save $5 by making the crew miserable, they'll do it.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  8. Battleship for Real by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    and Remote Rolls-Royce, too. sweet

  9. Autonomous! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it truly autonomous if somebody remotely has control over a fleet of ships? If that's a new meaning for autonomous, then what about autonomous automobiles? What if a controller of a worldwide fleet of cars was to suddenly say "right turn Clyde"?

  10. Never happen by peragrin · · Score: 5, Informative

    40% of a ships maintencence needs are done at sea, while under way. They can shut down parts of the engine to do maintencence on the ocean.

    An remote controlled ship would spend more time at dock than current models.

    And that is why remote ships won't set sail. Not pirates or crew costs but time spent being repaired at sea saves too much money.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    1. Re:Never happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If something breaks at see you would need to rush a crew the you drifting hazard to navigation.

    2. Re:Never happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If something breaks at see you would need to rush a crew the you drifting hazard to navigation.

      Crack or meth?

    3. Re:Never happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there constant maintenance or is it something that can be done e.g 1 day per week? If latter and there are multiple ships doing the same route somewhat close to each other, you could move people from ship to ship as needed and let them sail remote controlled in other situations. So 10 ships may only need 2 sets of crew.

    4. Re:Never happen by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      Also, still have to maintain manual override for harbor pilots. The chances of LA or NY allowing an autonomous large ship down their difficult to navigate entryways and, channels, and turns is slim to none.

    5. Re:Never happen by dywolf · · Score: 1

      more or less constant. talking about engines so large the mechanic can shut down specific cylinders and walk inside it, while the rest of the engine is still running. these machines are not maintenance free.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  11. Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Robot 765432 : *Oh no you have captured Robot 4858743. I must do as you command"

    Pirate "Ah Ha Ha!"

    Robot 765432 "JK we have a thousand more just like him back at the factory. BT We are now pumping toxic gas through the the vents, hope you didn't need air or anything squishbag. HA HA HA*

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I for one would rather the pirates just not profit from attacking, killing them is unethical and unnecessary.

    2. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by khallow · · Score: 1

      Being dead is a sure way to not profit. I'll just note here that we have yet to come up with a humane, peaceful way to stop piracy, but we have come up with a large variety of violent, but effective ways to stop piracy.

    3. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      You're wrong.

    4. Re: Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We will just use DRM on all the packages. Oh wait, that will just make sure that only pirates can use them.

    5. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by khallow · · Score: 1
      From the link:

      It's not known how the grinning pirates 160 kilometers off the coast of the Horn of Africa reacted as they suddenly were hit by the LRAD. But they were close, and the closer one is to the sonic cannon, the worse the effect is. It's possible they received permanent hearing damage, but at the very least they experienced an excruciating headache and ear pain to the point that they could no longer see or hear. They also quickly lost the desire to board the ship. Of course, even Captain Blackbeard would have quickly set sail when confronted with 150 decibels of pure noise.

      Excruciating headache and permanent hearing damage? That's so humane. Plus it's only a matter of time before they figure out how to defeat the system. Then where are you?

    6. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excruciating headache and permanent hearing damage? That's so humane.

      Oh it is, compared to killing them.

      Plus it's only a matter of time before they figure out how to defeat the system. Then where are you?

      Then we look for another way, like we always have. You know, we used to only have to worry about pirates with swords, but then those pirates got guns. So we had to adapt and the arms race goes back and forth.

      This doesn't just happen in the realm of piracy. In the old days that magnetic strip on your credit card was good enough, now we got chips, and I'm pretty sure even that will be broken sooner or later.

    7. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Possible hearing damage is a lot better than them being killed. You are really bad at this "being a human" thing. To you, humanity seems a weakness.

    8. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excruciating headache and permanent hearing damage? That's so humane.

      It's almost like torture... but that's OK they are still alive.

    9. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by khallow · · Score: 1

      ssible hearing damage is a lot better than them being killed. You are really bad at this "being a human" thing. To you, humanity seems a weakness.

      I think instead a lot more people will die because the world refuses to stop regular piracy. But I'm sure those sonic weapons will sell well for a time.

      As to your complaint about me having trouble with "being a human", I'm used to this bullshit moralizing from people who don't have rational or relevant points to make. The problem here is not that I'm failing to toe your vapid morality, but rather that people are dying due to piracy, either directly through the usual violence or indirectly through poverty caused by this piracy.

    10. Re:Unfolding gripping scene of piracy by khallow · · Score: 1

      Then we look for another way, like we always have. You know, we used to only have to worry about pirates with swords, but then those pirates got guns. So we had to adapt and the arms race goes back and forth.

      Which is dumb because this arms race favors the pirates who can ambush at their choosing with whatever they feel like bringing and an information asymmetry. It also raises the cost of shipping in areas affected by piracy without reducing the incidence of piracy.

      Historically, piracy ended when the powers of the day started attacking and destroying the bases of the pirates rather than merely put more stuff on the ships that were being attacked.

  12. Auto Pilot is old news by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

    Electronic Charts and Display Information Systems are old news (ca 1990). These smartish autopilots were required for large vessels in the wake of the Valdez disaster. There will always be a critical need for crew on board to handle unexpected failures: anybody see Our Finest Hour"?

  13. What could go wrong by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    What could go wrong with having huge autonomous supertankers and cargo ship meandering about the ocean with no human guidance? Nothing, nothing could possibly go wrong.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:What could go wrong by tomhath · · Score: 1

      They're already on autopilot with GPS navigation most of the time anyway. I doubt anyone would notice if the crew stayed home.

    2. Re:What could go wrong by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      They're already on autopilot with GPS navigation most of the time anyway. I doubt anyone would notice if the crew stayed home.

      True, but at least they can have a bridge watch to be sure they are safe. Iron Mike is a boon to sailors but given the consequences of a collision at sea you still need someone to be repaired to take control in the event something unexpected happens.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re:What could go wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the bridge watch, literally driving the whole ship, is done by one or maybe two guys. Most of the crew is engaged in maintenance, such as engine work and painting, at any given moment at sea. It is well known that maintenance tasks are hard to automate, although we might be able to make a decent paintbot.

  14. Breakdowns? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who will fix the ship if it suffers a breakdown? Or a fire? Or oil leak? Or regain power on cooling containers? The crew on a ship has so many tasks other than navigation that can't be remote controlled that it will kill this idea. Besides modern ships transport in the area of 1000 containers for each crew member. I don't think size or weight ratio between crew quarters and cargo really matter.

  15. People here are forgeting maritime laws.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pirate = its your ass mr.postman....

  16. Which Rolls-Royce? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The corporate entity of the original automobile manufacturer Rolls-Royce survives as an aviation engine corporation, which sold or licensed a trademark for automobiles to BMW in 1998. Is the Rolls-Royce proposing autonomous ships the aviation company (who have other industrial interests) or the company set up by BMW in '98 with the licensed brand name? For that matter, is the Rolls-Royce who were "in the news last week when they unveiled their first driverless vehicle" BMW's company, or the original?

  17. You are all idiots by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    Most of the comments are about pirates. Have you guys been living under a rock or what? Do you not know that the MPAA and RIAA have created all the technology required to defend against pirates?

  18. Not quite legal, because pirate crews are coerced by raymorris · · Score: 1

    For centuries, pirates were considered hostis humani generis, enemies of the human race, and any ship could arrest pirates on the high seas, try them, and execute them. A trial was required (if at all possible) because pirate ships often included people who were kidnapped or otherwise coerced to join the crew. Still today, on the high seas any nation may arrest and try pirates, but certain human rights protections have been added by treaty.

    International piracy law in general refers to piracy on the high seas (international waters). Most modern piracy occurs in territorial waters, though. In territorial waters, the nation who controls that territoy has jurisdiction and has the option to authorize any action. An exception is Somalia, which has a bad problem with piracy. Treaties allow signatory nations to take "all necessary measures that are appropriate in Somalia for the purpose of suppressing acts of piracy and armed robbery at sea". "All necessary measures" is generally thought to mean that unless lethal force is NECESSARY, it's not allowed. However, pirates shoot at people trying to arrest them, so lethal force is often necessary.

  19. GPS hijacking by CODiNE · · Score: 2

    Fly a drone onto a ship with a GPS jammer. Flip the coordinates around so that it thinks it's going to New York but is really going to Jamaica. The whole time it's transmitting the fake coordinates back to the control office where they think it's on schedule. By the time they realize it's not there, it's already been unloaded and the goods moved on.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  20. Don't think so by youngone · · Score: 1

    I don't think this will happen, as most cargo ships are crewed by slave labour. Unless Rolls Royce can make this cheaper than the cost of labour, (which is really, really low) the ship owners won't be interested.

  21. Military Involved by JimSadler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can bet your last penny that the Navy and naval forces around the world are already onto this idea. In essence a man ship acts as a tow and tender until somewhat near the conflict point. Then a sort of automated battle barge goes under its own power a couple of hundred miles and assumes a position and holds it. The design probably allows waves to slosh over the deck and has sides meant to deflect torpedoes. An example could be to control the entrance to a harbor. It could also be well equipped with missiles and drones to attack cities. I also would not be shocked if these battle barges are not able to sit silently on the ocean floor until ordered to rise to the surface and take action. Since no human life support is required they can sit in total silence for quite a long time if need be. It keeps troops out of harm's way and can effectively kill enemies. I would think that several Navies are already far along with something along these lines.

    1. Re:Military Involved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      automated battle barge

      Praise the Omnissiah!

    2. Re:Military Involved by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, it can be shrunk to the size of R2D2.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    3. Re:Military Involved by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      The US Navy has been working on an autonomous ship for a while now. here it is

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
  22. Two different Rolls Royces by hairykrishna · · Score: 1

    The driver-less Rolls was from Rolls Royce cars, which is just a BMW brand these days.

    This announcement is from the Rolls Royce who make plane engines, submarine reactors, ship power plants and all sorts of other stuff but no cars.

    --
    "Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
  23. Two different Rolls Royces by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    One is a German owned car company, the other a more general engineering company producing aeroplane engines and marine equipment, thus this report

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    v

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Now totally unrelated companies

  24. Possible with a staffed ship now by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    How many ships will be checking their navigation against the stars or by any means other than GPS. Get it away from the area patrolled by navies and board without that hassle.

    Great idea though...

  25. CONTAINER ship by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    This means that on arrival at a dockyard the cranes there will need easy access, which is not consistent with a ship inaccessible at sea.

  26. farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    Or maybe we could stop the Japanese, Chinese and Filipinos from strip-mining the Somali & Yemeni fisheries so the local fishermen didn't have to resort to piracy.

    Maybe by teaching them to properly manage their own home fisheries.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by khallow · · Score: 2

      Maybe by teaching them to properly manage their own home fisheries.

      You have triggered a pet peeve of mine. It's not a matter of teaching or learning to properly manage a fishery. It's a matter of having a system in place that enforces a sustainable approach. No amount of learning can compensate for a tragedy of the commons situation.

    2. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a matter of having a system in place that enforces a sustainable approach. No amount of learning can compensate for a tragedy of the commons situation.

      True on enforcing sustainability, but if the problem is indeed foreigners coming in and fishing all the places dry, this isn't a tragedy of the commons situation. It's simply a matter of border protections that need to be enforce.

      Somalia, Yemen, etc needs to build a giant (Kaijuu) wall to keep those foreigners out, and make the Chinese pay for it!

    3. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by khallow · · Score: 1

      but if the problem is indeed foreigners coming in and fishing all the places dry, this isn't a tragedy of the commons situation

      To the contrary, this is exactly a tragedy of the commons situation when nomadic outsiders can overgraze on the commons in question and move on when the resources in question are exhausted.

    4. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      outsiders can overgraze on the commons

      That's not how I interpreted Thud457's post. To me it sounds like waters that the Chinese and others are fishing from aren't "the commons", but waters that ought to belong to the locals. So when the Chinese are coming in to fish, they are essentially trespassing. Wiki appears to agree with as it mentions one of the causes for all this piracy was illegal fishing (and dumping of toxic materials) by foreign ships.

      Which is dumb because this arms race favors the pirates who can ambush at their choosing with whatever they feel like bringing and an information asymmetry.

      No, an arms race favors us. We have the numbers. We have access to the economic, scientific, and engineering capacity that is mainstream society. They have to rely on underground channels.

      Historically, piracy ended when the powers of the day started attacking and destroying the bases of the pirates rather than merely put more stuff on the ships that were being attacked.

      That's orthogonal to what I was saying. I was only addressing what we should do if the pirates better arm themselves (answer: we better arm ourselves), not ending piracy. Ending piracy would be nice, as would ending murder, or misuse of guns, but none of those things will happen any time soon, if ever. I was only talking about what to do in the meantime.

      As to ending piracy via attacking pirate bases... as above, the way I see it, those foreign ships aren't supposed to be there. You can keep on destroying pirate bases, but if you don't deal with the foreign ships making life difficult for the locals, new pirate bases will continue to pop.

    5. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by khallow · · Score: 1

      To me it sounds like waters that the Chinese and others are fishing from aren't "the commons", but waters that ought to belong to the locals.

      It's still a commons because the "belonging" doesn't keep out the foreigners. If I have a deed to property, but there are a zillion squatters on the land and I have no power to evict or extract rent from them, then I don't really own the land.

      No, an arms race favors us. We have the numbers. We have access to the economic, scientific, and engineering capacity that is mainstream society. They have to rely on underground channels.

      No, they have the numbers. Those pirates aren't fighting the whole of western civilization, they're fighting whatever you choose to cram on a single ship in place of valuable cargo.

      As to ending piracy via attacking pirate bases... as above, the way I see it, those foreign ships aren't supposed to be there. You can keep on destroying pirate bases, but if you don't deal with the foreign ships making life difficult for the locals, new pirate bases will continue to pop.

      Because dead pirates will keep popping pirate bases, eh? Doesn't work that way in the real world. If the consequences to attempted piracy are harsh and sure, then they'll find something else to do, even in the face of illegal fishing or whatever.

    6. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's still a commons because the "belonging" doesn't keep out the foreigners. If I have a deed to property, but there are a zillion squatters on the land and I have no power to evict or extract rent from them, then I don't really own the land.

      No, if something belongs to you, failing to keep foreigners out of is your problem, not mine and not the problem of "the commons".

      Wiki again seems to agree with me here, as one reason why the locals aren't able to defend their waters is because Somalia has troubles establishing a working government to assert and defend its territory.

      That Somalia can't get itself into order isn't a tragedy of the commons. It's just a tragedy

      No, they have the numbers. Those pirates aren't fighting the whole of western civilization, they're fighting whatever you choose to cram on a single ship in place of valuable cargo.

      No, we have the numbers. I was talking about the arms race, as in development of weapons and technology. And we do have the whole of western civilization to rely on in developing technology.

      Because dead pirates will keep popping pirate bases, eh? Doesn't work that way in the real world

      Nobody said it's the dead who keep popping up pirate bases. Living non pirates become pirates when they find themselves lacking alternatives in the real world.

      If the consequences to attempted piracy are harsh and sure, then they'll find something else to do

      Two obvious problems with this, first, if you can bring on such consequence. Many tyrants have tried your approach, trying to secure their rule by threatening dire consequences to those disobey. Most if not all of them failed.

      Second, "find something else to do " is kind of hard if illegal fishing is limiting what other things there are to do.

      even in the face of illegal fishing or whatever

      Except historically, dealing with the "whatevers" is what ends piracy

      For example, what ended the Golden Age of Piracy isn't just European navies going around hunting down pirates. The incentives (the "whatevers") for piracy started to dry up. First, the plunder isn't as good, as the Spanish Empire was on decline. Second, European nations are less keen to hire privateers, and instead put sailors into the navy proper. Third, the rise of America and the West in general created more opportunities for people so they have less incentive to turn to piracy.

      Another example is the Barbary Pirates. The US killed some pirates in the first war, but as soon as US/Europe turned their attention elsewhere the pirates returned, leading to the second Barbary War. Just killing pirates doesn't solve the underlying problem (that is, the Barbary states being dicks). Long term, piracy faded because European powers gained control of the region, the Ottoman in decline, and also because European ships becoming more advanced (read: winning the arms race)

    7. Re:farming instead of hunting & gatheringing by khallow · · Score: 1

      No, if something belongs to you,

      "IF".

      No, we have the numbers. I was talking about the arms race, as in development of weapons and technology. And we do have the whole of western civilization to rely on in developing technology.

      Nonsense. You don't have the whole of western civilization packed on that ship.

      Nobody said it's the dead who keep popping up pirate bases. Living non pirates become pirates when they find themselves lacking alternatives in the real world.

      They'll find other alternatives fast, if being dead is a consequence of being a pirate. Plus, there's a learning curve.

      For example, what ended the Golden Age of Piracy isn't just European navies going around hunting down pirates. The incentives (the "whatevers") for piracy started to dry up. First, the plunder isn't as good, as the Spanish Empire was on decline. Second, European nations are less keen to hire privateers, and instead put sailors into the navy proper. Third, the rise of America and the West in general created more opportunities for people so they have less incentive to turn to piracy.

      Another example is the Barbary Pirates. The US killed some pirates in the first war, but as soon as US/Europe turned their attention elsewhere the pirates returned, leading to the second Barbary War. Just killing pirates doesn't solve the underlying problem (that is, the Barbary states being dicks). Long term, piracy faded because European powers gained control of the region, the Ottoman in decline, and also because European ships becoming more advanced (read: winning the arms race)

      You know, this is what I said all along. You mention in multiple places the harsh response to pirating and just treat it as if it were a minor factor. The "incentives" dried up says it all. Global trade massively exploded, yet somehow there was little of value on those ships to steal? Yea right.

  27. I'm sorry, Abduwali ... by modi123 · · Score: 1

    "I'm sorry, Abduwali, I'm afraid I can't do that. I am the captain now." (Hal; probably).

    Hell.. combine this with a few of the robots from "Runaway" and "Screamers" you have defense _AND_ repair!

  28. Re:Not quite legal, because pirate crews are coerc by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    For centuries, pirates were considered hostis humani generis, enemies of the human race, and any ship could arrest pirates on the high seas, try them, and execute them. A trial was required (if at all possible) because pirate ships often included people who were kidnapped or otherwise coerced to join the crew. Still today, on the high seas any nation may arrest and try pirates, but certain human rights protections have been added by treaty.

    International piracy law in general refers to piracy on the high seas (international waters). Most modern piracy occurs in territorial waters, though. In territorial waters, the nation who controls that territoy has jurisdiction and has the option to authorize any action. An exception is Somalia, which has a bad problem with piracy. Treaties allow signatory nations to take "all necessary measures that are appropriate in Somalia for the purpose of suppressing acts of piracy and armed robbery at sea". "All necessary measures" is generally thought to mean that unless lethal force is NECESSARY, it's not allowed. However, pirates shoot at people trying to arrest them, so lethal force is often necessary.

    "The violent crime rate related to fishing boats is easily 20 times that of crimes involving tankers, cargo ships or passenger ships, said Charles N. Dragonette, who tracked seafaring attacks globally for the United States Office of Naval Intelligence until 2012. “So long as the victims were Indonesian, Malay, Vietnamese, Filipino, just not European or American, the story never resonated,” he said.
    Prosecutions for crimes at sea are rare — one former United States Coast Guard official put it at “less than 1 percent” — because many ships lack insurance and captains are averse to the delays and prying that can come with a police investigation. The few military and law enforcement ships that patrol international waters are usually forbidden from boarding ships flying another country’s flag unless given permission. Witnesses willing to speak up are scarce; so is physical evidence."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/20/world/middleeast/murder-at-sea-captured-on-video-but-killers-go-free.html?_r=0

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  29. They better give that AI plenty of alcohol! by phrackthat · · Score: 1

    We wouldn't want another Juan Valdez dark matter spill! Just say No! to sober robots!

    http://pixa.club/en/futurama/s...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  30. Error in summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rolls Royce the car brand has nothing to do with Rolls Royce. Not anymore.

  31. Expect a new defintion of "software piracy" by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    What could possibly go wrong? (See other posts for some of the answers.)

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.