Slashdot Mirror


The Moral Dilemma of Driverless Cars: Save The Driver or Save The Crowd?

HughPickens.com writes: What should a driverless car with one rider do if it is faced with the choice of swerving off the road into a tree or hitting a crowd of 10 pedestrians? The answer depends on whether you are the rider in the car or someone else is, writes Peter Dizikes at MIT News. According to recent research most people prefer autonomous vehicles to minimize casualties in situations of extreme danger -- except for the vehicles they would be riding in. "Most people want to live in in a world where cars will minimize casualties," says Iyad Rahwan. "But everybody wants their own car to protect them at all costs." The result is what the researchers call a "social dilemma," in which people could end up making conditions less safe for everyone by acting in their own self-interest. "If everybody does that, then we would end up in a tragedy whereby the cars will not minimize casualties," says Rahwan. Researchers conducted six surveys, using the online Mechanical Turk public-opinion tool, between June 2015 and November 2015. The results consistently showed that people will take a utilitarian approach to the ethics of autonomous vehicles, one emphasizing the sheer number of lives that could be saved. For instance, 76 percent of respondents believe it is more moral for an autonomous vehicle, should such a circumstance arise, to sacrifice one passenger rather than 10 pedestrians. But the surveys also revealed a lack of enthusiasm for buying or using a driverless car programmed to avoid pedestrians at the expense of its own passengers. "This is a challenge that should be on the mind of carmakers and regulators alike," the researchers write. "For the time being, there seems to be no easy way to design algorithms that would reconcile moral values and personal self-interest."

9 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by Hylandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here we go again. We just had this discussion last week too.

    If the new slashdot owners are using the client base as fodder for some think-tank the least you could do is provide compensation after the first few times an article is recycled.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    1. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      THIS!

      I think this topic is really representative of the media scaremongering today :

      1 - Take a situation which presents a moral dilema, however rare it may arise in real life even now ... How many times a day does this exact situation REALLY happens in the US for example? I wanna know to check it is not an imaginary problem!
      2 - Ask the wrong questions about the part of the situation that is the closer to a catastrophic failure that it can be, in a way that sound as scary or horrific as possible, to get the answer you are after : What if YOU have to die to save 10 strangers (and one may be the next Stalin anyway)?
      3 - Make sure to blow up the importance of this extreme-odds problem : like millions of people will die everyday ...
      4 - Find a culprit that is different from your readership : migrants, err ... sorry AI, robots! They're commin' for ya!
      5- Conveniently forget that the problem can be even rarer as AI won't be texting, as even if a glitch happens, it could be corrected after that and for all cars on the road! So really, what is the actual frequency now and what would it be with driverless cars?
      6 - Make it a priority : After all, we don't even know if it is a common problem now, if it will be in the future, but this make nice click-bait headlines and as I enjoy driving if I appeal to the luddite feeling/loss of control fear/hero-complex of readers and sway them I will avoid people to take my wheel/gun from me!

      Really, asking questions like : do you want people to die? and do you want to die? Of course, both will be answer by no, then proclaming people don't want driverless cars is just sleazy ...

      Meteorites fall on earth all the time, they can kill people too, where is our anti-meteorite patriot missile system? Quick crawl back to the caves and call your congress critter to do something about this life threatening problem! YOUR life is at stakes! /s

      Show us the numbers, and projections based on cause of these accidents right now, with number of people involved and outcome. Then you can convince me driverless cars are more dangerous than the actual situation now in that particular case ...

    2. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by catchblue22 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think something that is usually not emphasized is that in most cases, human drivers will not have time to make such moral decisions. If you had time enough to think about moral implications, you would in most cases have time to avoid the accident in the first place.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    3. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by localman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like how everyone assumes people make carefully considered, rational decisions in a high-speed crisis.

      People probably choose to veer away from hitting people because they don't realize they might kill themselves - they just see what is in front of them and sure to happen, and don't have the time or wherewithall to consider the unknown consequences.

      People will reach out to catch a falling knife, too, but that doesn't mean that they thought about the implications.

    4. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by roman_mir · · Score: 0, Insightful

      AFAIC your question is secondary. The most important part of it is to stay alive and unharmed for the driver. Who goes on trial is a distant tenth.

    5. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your car is filled with airbags and seatbelts and crumple zones and all sorts designed to protect you during a crash. Pedestrians have none of that (at least for the time being). The CAR should protect you (using those safety features), the AI should do what drivers are supposed to do - cause the least amount of carnage on the road.

    6. Re:Seems this topic is stuck in the roundabout. by Wycliffe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is extremely narcissistic and the argument is only valid if you always go for the tree.
      You are in control of the vehicle. The pedestrian does not share that responsibility.
      It is also you who put the car in a situation where you have to choose between hitting the pedestrian and the tree.
      There is no moral justification for not going for the tree in that case.

      What about on a limited access highway where there is a reasonable expectation that people aren't suppose to be?
      What about in the situation where the person intentionally jumps out in front of traffic in an attempt to commit suicide?

      The issue I have with this question is that I doubt they are going to be programming the car to count the number of passengers in the car, the number of pedestrians or even distinguishing between a person and a deer. To make an accurate crash prediction you would likely want to even know the diameter of the tree and what is behind the tree. The goal of driverless cars is to avoid most crashes in the first place. The idea that someone would be adding all this moralistic code for rare never really happens events is a bit far fetched. In almost all cases, the goal of the car is to avoid collision and if that is not possible to minimize the speed of impact. After that, it becomes very complex because you have to look at what you're impacting and how much give it has. A deer/person has more give that a cement pillar and would actually be a safer option. Also, in many cases, staying on the road and hitting the deer/person would be safer than swerving and rolling down an embankment even if you technically didn't hit anything. It would be interesting to know though if they are coding for doing different behaviors based on whether the unknown obstacle on the road is a dog, a deer, or a person because many people would make different calculations depending on whether the animal in the road is human or not.

  2. I don't think the algorithms work this way by Chuckstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As far as I can tell, the autonomous algorithms don't work this way and probably never will work this way. That is, they don't calculate potential fatalities for various scenarios and then pick the minimum one. The car's response in any particular situation will be effectively some combination of simpler heuristics -- simpler than trying to project casualty figures, while still being a rather complex set of rules.

    Take one of these situations, and let's say the car ended up killing pedestrians and saving the occupants. The after-incident report for an accident like that is not going to read "the algorithm chose to save the occupants instead of the pedestrians". It's not going to read that way simply because that's not how the algorithm makes decisions. Instead the report is going to read something like "the algorithm gives extra weight to keeping the car on the road. In this situation, that resulted in putting the pedestrians in greater danger than the car's occupants. However, we still maintain that, on average, this results in a safer driving algorithm, even if it does not optimize the result of every possible accident."

    And regarding the "every possible accident" part of that: it is simply impossible to imagine an algorithm so perfect that, in any situation, it can optimize the result based on some pre-determined moral outcome. So it's not just "well, let's change how the algorithms work, then". Such an algorithm that makes driving decisions in any possible weird decision based on predicting fatalities, rather than relying on heuristics (however complex they are) is simply not realistic.

  3. Not even think-tank shit. by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. Any company TRYING to write code with the intention of killing/injuring the user will be sued out of existence.

    2. Whichever executive ordered the techs to write such code would never work again.

    3. Even if you allow a theoretical situation that bypasses #1 & #2, complex software is very difficult to write. The company (and executive and coders) would be sued out of existence when the car killed/injured the passenger to avoid running over a box of toy dolls.

    And yet we keep seeing this bullshit on /. People here are supposed to be more informed on the topics of AI and robotics and programming than the average. But here we are, again.