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How China Took Control of Bitcoin (nytimes.com)

Slashdot reader Rick Zeman quotes the New York Times: In its early conception, Bitcoin was to exist beyond the control of any single government or country. It would be based everywhere and nowhere... Yet despite the talk of a borderless currency, a handful of Chinese companies have effectively assumed majority control of the Bitcoin network. They have done so through canny investments and vast farms of computer servers dispersed around the country...there are fears that China's government could decide, at some point, to pressure miners in the country to use their influence to alter the rules of the Bitcoin network. The government's intervention in 2013 suggests that Bitcoin is not too small to escape notice.

19 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. It's been days by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's been days since we had a Bitcoin story, I was growing nostalgic for one, and whaddya know, one pops up like a gift from Heaven.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:It's been days by JoshuaZ · · Score: 2, Funny

      We're not going to buy your overpriced tulips.

      Tulips at least look pretty. And gold is shiny. Bitcoin has all the same problems and doesn't even have anything nice to look at.

    2. Re:It's been days by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I find it really funny that bitcoin enthusiasts go on both about the blockchain providing a record of transactions and how it's an anonymous currency.
      Hey kids, I've got dollar bills with RFID chips on them to sell you along with that bridge you are stupid enough to buy.

  2. Not surprising by somenickname · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bitcoin as an idea is very interesting but, in actual function, it's a scam. I wanted to learn more about it a year ago and so bought some mining ASICs. It doesn't take long before you realize that your magic money printing device was sold to you at a cost that means you will invariably lose money. Which makes sense. If I have a magic money printing device, why the hell would I sell it to you instead of running it myself?

    At the time when I bought my ASICs, the Chinese companies that were making them started changing directions and were moving towards a model of letting you rent ASICs that they would host. It's kind of a brilliant plan because it means they can reduce the costs of ASICs by creating WAY more than people will ever buy and then just renting people as many as they want. The rent more than pays for the electricity and manufacturing costs so, no matter what happens, the ASIC manufacturers always win. Unfortunately, they are the *only* people that win.

    It's not surprising at all that China controls the bitcoin market. They *are* the market. All the ASICs come from China and if they don't sell the ASICs, they make a profit by running them. If they do sell the ASICs, they make more profit by selling them at an inflated price that speculators will pay. It's a hell of a racket.

    1. Re:Not surprising by cfalcon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I mean, this shouldn't be overly surprising. If it is a gold rush, the money is in making shovels. The same is mostly true even if it is a scam gold rush...

    2. Re:Not surprising by somenickname · · Score: 2

      Agreed. But, it's not something you realize until you've bought your shovels. I did it as an experiment so, I didn't mind losing some money to learn about the industry but, I'd like to educate potential miners: The magic money printing machine you bought was sold to you because the people who made it thought it was more profitable to sell it to you than to run it themselves.

    3. Re:Not surprising by somenickname · · Score: 2

      No, by "scam" I mean exactly what I said: Why would someone sell you a magic money printing machine instead of running it themselves? The answer is: Because they can make more money selling it to you than they would make by running it themselves. Which kind of implies that buying a mining rig is a losing proposition. A scam.

    4. Re:Not surprising by khallow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It doesn't take long before you realize that your magic money printing device was sold to you at a cost that means you will invariably lose money. Which makes sense. If I have a magic money printing device, why the hell would I sell it to you instead of running it myself?

      No, what happened is that the cheap bitcoins went away. A cursory examination of the dynamics of the thing would have revealed that mining bit coins increases in computational/electricity cost over time. So as long as value of bit coins exceeds the electricity cost of mining them, then there will be massive computational resources thrown at them.

      There's no such thing as a free lunch.

    5. Re:Not surprising by Gorobei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bitcoin as an idea is very interesting but, in actual function, it's a scam. I wanted to learn more about it a year ago and so bought some mining ASICs. It doesn't take long before you realize that your magic money printing device was sold to you at a cost that means you will invariably lose money. Which makes sense. If I have a magic money printing device, why the hell would I sell it to you instead of running it myself?

      Um, because of reality? In this case, cost of capital:

      If I can make a machine for $900 that generates $100/year forever, I get an 11% return on capital.
      If I can sell it for $1000, I get an immediate return of $100, and can build another machine and repeat the process. At one per day, I make $36,500 in my first year.

      If the risk free interest rate is around 3%, the second plan is worth 10x as much as the first plan.

    6. Re:Not surprising by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Indeed a lot of stuff around gold mining in various gold (and silver) rushes were scams. Claim salting and a lot of more subtle things. A lot has been written but I'd say bits of Mark Twain's mostly autobiographical "roughing it" sums it up better than most.
      Hence the words "gold rush mentality" applied to shiny new things where you know a lot of the players are going to crash and burn before it's over (dotcom crash, shale mining, etc).

    7. Re:Not surprising by ET3D · · Score: 2

      Bitcoin wasn't designed as a scam, it was just too optimistic. The concept isn't one of a magic money printing device; the miners do valuable work which keeps the currency functioning. It was originally mined on CPU's then GPU's, so was initially truly the 'people's coin'. It wasn't until ASIC's mining arrived that things started going downhill in this respect.

      That's indeed a problem with cryptocurrencies in general, but it's a more serious problem with bitcoin because it uses a relatively simple function, one that became quite easy to solve. It was the first, and therefore it has unfortunately both the largest mind share and the most problems.

    8. Re:Not surprising by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      If gold's value was based on it's actual usefulness it would have crashed decades ago. The total gold used for industrial and jewelry purposes is less than 1 thousandth of a percent of the gold we've mined. Nearly all of it was mined as currency and despite not having been used as such for decades it keeps being traded by people who treat it as such (and this even now when 2/3rds of the gold trade is flagrant fraud - same ounce gold owned by 3 different people).

      All currency is just a collective agreement to pretend something is valuable, frankly since none of that value is EVER actually *real* (money is never valuable - it merely represents things which could possibly have value) - it makes perfect sense to use the cheapest possible thing to represent it with. Why use something that has to be mined at great expense in incredibly dangerous conditions when you can do the same job with a sheet of paper ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  3. Told lots of people this was going to happen by Khyber · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And this is why I did not bother with Bitcoin. That currency value is way too high for its own good and was bound to attract the greedy Chinese speculators once it started gaining 'value.' It is seriously hyper-inflated. I do better with mining and selling gems and mineral samples.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  4. we're pissed by slashmydots · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're wondering how OG bitcoin enthusiasts that have been with bitcoins from late 2009 feel about it (aka me) we're PISSED! Every last person thinks China can go straight to hell. People threw parties when one of the major bitcoin mining facilities in China burned to the ground. I hope they all burn down in fact. Fuck those greedy, lying, ASIC-hoarding, patent-stealing, rip-off artist assholes and their control of the bitcoin network and manipulation of its price on a daily basis.

    1. Re:we're pissed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My guess is that he is one of the guys that was sitting on about 20000 of them in 2009/2010 and got bored with it and sold them for a 100 bucks. That would sting.

    2. Re:we're pissed by Tom · · Score: 2

      They are exploiting a design flaw in the Bitcoin network. One that was known pretty much from the start. One that was obvious as being a breaking point. As soon as Bitcoin becomes important enough for national governments to worry, you really thought this wouldn't happen? If the USA wants to destroy Bitcoin, they wouldn't turn on the NSA supercomputers as miners for a few days and be done with it? Please.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  5. CureCoin benefits the USA & the World by davisconnorscot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From a purely futuristic perspective, the altcoin CURE (aka CureCoin) prevents mining silos ... and even if China took over mining/folding of CURE, it benefits the entire global community since the only way to mine it is through protein folding research (ok 80% is folded, and 20% is still SHA-256). But if you're feeling patriotic, or slightly xenophobic ... the research being done is seeded by the NIH and NSF. Food for thought.

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:All but for one fatal flaw by silentcoder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At least in theory a fiat currency is tied to the productive labour of the people of the country - which is why hyperinflation only ever really happens in countries that first had some other kind of social unrest or plague or war destroy their productive capacity (look it up - every example of hyperinflation* in history was first preceded by an unrelated and massive problem that destroyed the productive capacity - printing money only *really* becomes a problem when there isn't any production for it to represent). Bitcoin isn't even tied to that.
    It's, at best, tied to the energy it costs to mine - which you need to buy, for a fiat currency... which makes it nothing but a substitute for fiat currencies without any official recognition or supply controls or consumer protections or ... well any of the things we added to money over the centuries to solve the many problems we encountered over the past ten thousand or so years. Which pretty much leaves it vulnerable to every single one of those long-solved problems, problems we solved so successfully and so long ago that most people have forgotten they ever existed.

    *Well, all but one but the one time that it actually WAS the money supply in isolation is never mentioned by the goldbugs. That was the Spanish hyper-inflation problem which ultimately led to the collapse of the Spanish empire. The reason they don't mention that one is that goldbugs are mostly also free market fundamentalists who think inequality, no matter how severe, is the proper state of the world - so they don't want to mention that one because the key driving force of it was extreme inequality. The money supply was massively increased (by conquistadors coming back with gold and silver mined in the new world by slaves), but this increase went entirely to a tiny elite (the conquistadors). So businesses raised prices massively to get at that new money from the conquistadors who had it to spend. Of course this meant the money was worth a lot less than when they arrived - so their brutality in the mines got worse and worse because no matter how much they mined they never got much richer back home. Meantime every merchant's prices had gone through the roof selling at a fortune to the conquistadors, so the suppliers raised their prices to cash in on the newly-moneyed merchants... etc. etc. and the average workers (mostly farm-workers then but others like bricklayers and the like too) did not see their incomes increase. While the prices of food and clothing were set at the rates only the super-rich could afford, the country starved... until civil war followed.... so basically the end result is the same as every extreme inequality in history, just with a side-trip into hyperinflation that aggravated the problem.

    --
    Unicode killed the ASCII-art *