Microsoft Targets The iMac With New All-In-One Surface PCs, Reports Say (networkworld.com)

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Microsoft Targets The iMac With New All-In-One Surface PCs, Reports Say (networkworld.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Wednesday July 6, 2016 @11:20AM from the all-in-one dept.

New submitter Miche67 writes: Two reports say Microsoft is working on an all-in-one (AIO) PC under the Surface brand. If that's true, it would put it in competition with HP and Dell, which have their own AIO lines, as well as put it in competition with Apple's iMac. Network World reports: "Both DigiTimes and Windows Central picked up on the story, each citing their own sources. DigiTimes, a Taiwan-based publication with connections to the PC industry over there (but also a very mixed record of accuracy) said the new devices would come in the third quarter of this year. Windows Central, which is a little better when it comes to rumors, said it did not have a solid release date." Business Insider was able to find a patent filing by Microsoft for a desktop PC that supports the rumored AIO design. "The device is evidently targeting a 'modern and elegant' design and is meant to be something akin to a premium appliance or furniture," Windows Central wrote. Intel's release date of the new Kaby Lake line of processors around Q3 of this year complicates things. While Kaby Lake is said to be more mobile-friendly with less power consumption and heat, they would make for a good choice for an AIO machine. However, it would be pushing it for Microsoft to release its AIO machines in the same quarter that Kaby Lake is due. On a semi-related note, a programmer at Building 88 recently confirmed that Microsoft will release Surface 5 devices next year powered by Kaby Lake processors. He posted pictures of four device holders marked "2017" on his Twitter account.

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Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by mpapet · 2016-07-06 11:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

Things must be desperate inside Microsoft. They are attacking their own customers. (Dell, Asus, etc.)

--
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
1. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  Partners in crime, you mean?
  Illegal monopoly is still illegal, last I checked. But hey. Who needs law and order when you can bathe in the blood of your customers at the government's resounding applause?
  How is it not obvious that Microsoft would screw over anyone and everyone? Is everyone insane stupid?
2. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2016-07-06 11:49 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Things must be desperate inside Microsoft. They are attacking their own customers. (Dell, Asus, etc.)
  They've already been doing that for a few years, now - ever since the first Surface portable was announced.
  I suppose the good news for their partners is - Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing a particularly good job of competing with them. I'm a Mac guy; but, if I were in the market for a Windows portable, it'd probably be something more like the Lenovo Yoga line. I've used a few different Surfaces, and even the pricey keyboard cover absolutely blows chunks. Of course Lenovo has a few little issues of its own...
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
3. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Njorthbiatr · 2016-07-06 11:58 · Score: 2
  
  But I mean, at least Lenovo can figure out that laptops need ventilation holes.
4. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by ShaunC · 2016-07-06 11:58 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  The obvious and overdone product placements for the Surface are very off-putting as well. A couple of times during the NASCAR race this weekend, they'd cut to a trackside reporter who'd start out their segment saying "Looking here on my Microsoft Surface, I can see..." [some statistic they could easily have viewed on any device]. I've seen sideline reporters do the same thing during NBC coverage of NFL games, except amusingly the NFL hosts kept referring to them as iPads.
  When your product has so little brand awareness and/or consumer goodwill that you purchase blatant product placements like this, I personally find that to be a sign of an undesirable product. Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded. Then again that describes Microsoft's image in general these days; "sneaky and underhanded" probably ought to be the official motto of Windows 10.
  
  --
  Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
5. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 12:05 · Score: 0
  
  What are you talking about? The Surface tablets have vents all around the edges so no matter where you hold them, they are properly vented.
6. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 12:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Even before the Surface, they had the Zune which was billed as an iPod alternative, but ended up attacking Microsoft PlaysForSure partners
7. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Killall+-9+Bash · 2016-07-06 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  What customers? Asus and Dell are the ones that forced Microsoft to give Windows away for free to OEMs by threatening to go open source. (MS didn't believe they'd do it, until they did, and sold a shit-ton of netbooks).
  
  Thanks to those ass-douches, Windows is now SaaS, and you can expect a Google-esque level of never-finished-beta quality.
  
  Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution.
  
  --
  "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
8. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Gumbercules!! · 2016-07-06 14:04 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  No, Microsoft are not screwed. Microsoft's partners are screwed.
  
  If Microsoft starts pushing out equipment that people want and emulates Apple - then there's no need for Dell. Anyway, who is Dell going to get an OS from? Apple? Dell has to keep selling Windows because its consumers need it (enterprise and business). Linux is not an option.
  
  It's not just hardware partners Microsoft is screwing over - channel partners are in deep shit, too. All those millions of little IT shops days are numbered, too. Office 365, Azure integrated AD, etc. All spells a lot of trouble for people who have spent the last 10 years selling SBS boxes and PCs to small businesses.
9. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by slazzy · 2016-07-06 14:30 · Score: 1
  
  Ipod meet zune, take two.
  
  --
  Website Just Down For Me? Find out
10. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by saloomy · 2016-07-06 15:47 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Nope. Microsoft is not a monopoly, not anymore at least. They were when I.E. was breaking standards and forcing web sites to its proprietary rendering engine. They only have a relatively large market share in email servers, consumer desktop OSs, and office software, none of which is large enough to bar entrants and competitors.
  
  No. What MS doing now is seeing Apple's success and vying for those markets, unsuccessfully. Their problem is that hey are just bad at it.
  
  1. Apple created System 1, and Microsoft created Windows with developer preview access.
  2. Apple had MacWrite again as a developer preview, and again, Microsoft copied to Word.
  3. Apple Came out with the iPod, its first real block buster success... Microsoft copied with the Zune, terribly.
  4. Apple created the iPhone, Microsoft copied unsuccessfully with its Nokia Lumina.
  5. Apple iPad, Microsoft surface (RT at first).
  6. MacBook, surface book.
  7. Now the iMac.
  
  What's just as just as troubling thought is they seem to be eating into other markets that were previously complimentary. Hosted exchange, servers. (A'la azure), and clients. These were previously sacred ground Microsoft cultivated for many years thriving ecosystems around its primary products. Today, it's taking those markets for itself, since it has few other areas to expand into.
11. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-07-06 16:26 · Score: 2
  
  Back in the early years of the Mac, Microsoft Word and Excel were two of the main reasons to own a Mac. Macwrite? Don't kid around like that.
12. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-07-06 16:28 · Score: 1
  
  You mean iPad Pro vs. Surface? The iPad only runs a toy OS.
13. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by saloomy · 2016-07-06 16:45 · Score: 0
  
  Macwrite was a WYSIWYG editor, and Microsoft came out with word relatively identically timed to when Microsoft came out with Windows. I'll grant you, Macwrite is not what Word is, but it what some would have considered at the time a reference design. It was supposed to be used "by mere mortals". Microsoft did have the insight to realize that the office is where these applications would find their niche, not in the kids bedroom doing homework papers.
  
  But my point remains. Microsoft finds impulse to enter a market where others are already succeeding, by creating a "me too, but it works with the rest of our stuff" approach. Just look at Bing as the perfect example of that. MS does that. They created Bing when there was no real need for it. Google was serving the needs of the search market just fine. Contrast that with Apple. They only created Maps because google would not allow them to have turn-by-turn directions without the app supplying data they wanted to harvest for marketers. Apple would not allow google to collect that data, and could not sit idly by while Android had turn-by-turn. Apple won't enter a market where they don't have to, without the ability to create some innovative value.
14. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 17:27 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  And that abomination of an OS that is called Windows 10 is not a Toy?
  After all, it sends everything you do back to Mommy.
15. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by narcc · 2016-07-06 17:58 · Score: 1
  
  Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded.
  
  Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.
  
  --
  Required reading for internet skeptics
16. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by thegarbz · 2016-07-06 18:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've yet to find a keyboard that was 2mm thin and folded back on itself that didn't blow chunks.
  Oh wait you were comparing a tiny thin tablet to a laptop. Enjoy your mixed fruit salad.
17. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bazorg · 2016-07-06 19:49 · Score: 1
  
  It's fair these companies see a new Surface AIO and an Xbox running Windows 10 applications as an attack, but it's equally fair for Microsoft to see this move as a vertical integration strategy that was blocked in the 90s but is commonplace in this decade. Google has Nexus, Android & cloud-based services; Apple has their own stack from device to software and cloud services... why should Microsoft miss out?
  Not only there's profit to be made, as there's OEMs making Windows worse with bloatware and there's the risk that one of the other players locks Microsoft out of their walled garden.
  If it's OK for Sony to have only their approved software running on Playstation; if it's OK for Apple to prevent 3rd party browsers to be added to iOS devices; if it's OK for Facebook to track what users are doing with their apps in and out of their website, why can't Microsoft do all of the above?
  MS will be selling high end laptops, smartphones, VR headsets, AIO computers and even a headless-iMac-like-device (xbox). There will be less that 90% of PCs with their software/services on them, but MS should end up with a healthy slice of a much larger market than what existed in the 90s. Can't fault them for pursuing this.
18. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by macs4all · 2016-07-06 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  What are you talking about? The Surface tablets have vents all around the edges so no matter where you hold them, they are properly vented.
  They have VENTS?!? Ewww!
  
  What self-respecting TABLET blows hot air on your hand while you hold it?!?
  
  None, I say...
19. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by hairyfeet · 2016-07-06 20:11 · Score: 2
  
  Oh please, twist history to fit your narrative much?
  MSFT thought they could keep on bloating forever, when at the time they had already bloated so damned much that laptops had fans that sounded like jet engines thanks to all the shit MSFT had running. Asus and Dell got a "hell of a deal" (Because we know now Intel was product dumping trying to create a new market) on a shit ton of Intel Atom chips, slap a small screen and some solid state storage or a small hard drive and voila! A netbook, cheap as hell to make and anybody in retail would tell you cheap small and light laptops are easy to move...so what does MSFT do? Release Vista which was a giant bloated hog! You ever try to run Vista RTM on a netbook? Its actually quite funny, you can practically measure boot time in days.
  So no shit they went Linux, MSFT wouldn't give 'em the normal bulk rate on XP (because MSFT wanted to push their new hotness whether people wanted it or not....gee why does that sound familiar?) and they sure as fuck wasn't gonna stick Vista on a netbook so they either bought or rolled their own Linux. When MSFT realized they couldn't force the OEMs to take a bloated corpse of an OS to install on fricking netbooks they caved and offered WinXP and voila! Within 8 months they were all running XP and MSFT made sure their next release wasn't so bloated it would run like shit on laptops and even came out with an ultra light version for netbooks.
  Of course then they jacked up the price of a copy of Win 7 to kill the netbook...but that is another story. As for Windows 10 Ultimate Spyware Edition being SaaS? Wow you must not know the history of MSFT very well. You see the Ballmernator wanted MSFT to be a bad Apple ripoff and when they punt kicked him they replaced him with....a guy that wants the company to be a bad Google ripoff.
  So while Ballmer tried to do everything Apple did but hamhanded and piss poor (see Zune, Kin, buying Nokia so they could make their own handsets) we now have Nutella trying to do everything Google does but hamhanded and piss poor. all the datamining shit is the same that Google is doing but unlike Google MSFT is about as subtle as a raging bull with the shits charging through Sunday Mass so its getting massive backlash. Its just SSDD with MSFT, still 2 steps behind and tripping over their own feet.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
20. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-06 22:38 · Score: 1
  
  Name a Win32/64 supporting drop in replacement for Windows. Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.
21. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-06 22:42 · Score: 1
  
  All the Microsoft computers so far have been premium products. The OEMs can still make money selling to the lower end of the market.
22. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by NotAPK · 2016-07-06 23:04 · Score: 2
  
  I loaded up a big nasty Excel 2007 spreadsheet in Libreoffice and was pleasantly surprised to find everything working.
  I'm sure there are some bits missing, but it's closer to 99% than to 50% feature-complete.
23. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bloodhawk · 2016-07-06 23:41 · Score: 1
  
  They have had too, dell, Asus and the rest of the OEM's were producing shit for a long time. Hence the surface line to try and inspire them to compete at the top rather than a race for who can produce the crapiest cheapest machine while ceding the top end to apple. I expect this is going to be a similar situation. They normally price their own lines at a premium so it leaves plenty of room for the OEM's anyway.
24. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by wicka_wicka · 2016-07-06 23:54 · Score: 1
  
  It's fair these companies see a new Surface AIO and an Xbox running Windows 10 applications as an attack, but it's equally fair for Microsoft to see this move as a vertical integration strategy that was blocked in the 90s but is commonplace in this decade.
  Well yeah, it was blocked in the 90s because they would have vertically integrated the entire market. It's allowed today because there is actual competition.
  
  --
  hi
25. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bazorg · 2016-07-07 00:26 · Score: 1
  
  Happy days then. Can we now have less MS-bashing and more industry-wide regulation instead?
26. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by wicka_wicka · 2016-07-07 01:10 · Score: 1
  
  You are on the wrong site if you wanted to avoid MS-bashing, my friend. I agree, though. I don't think there is anything Microsoft could ever do to get me to buy a Windows Phone, but I desperately hope they find a way to make the platform work eventually, because the Google/Apple duopoly isn't doing it for me.
  
  --
  hi
27. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 01:30 · Score: 0
  
  Why the fuck was this modded troll?
  We are Slashdot of Org. You will be moderated. Relevance is foobar.
28. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by drinkypoo · 2016-07-07 01:39 · Score: 1
  
  The obvious and overdone product placements for the Surface are very off-putting as well. A couple of times during the NASCAR race this weekend, they'd cut to a trackside reporter who'd start out their segment saying "Looking here on my Microsoft Surface, I can see..." [some statistic they could easily have viewed on any device].
  What's really sad is that if they just took the word "Microsoft" out of there, instead of "ha ha Microsoft lol what lames" it would be for at least a handful of people "What's a surface?"
  Hands of ham.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
29. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by drinkypoo · 2016-07-07 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  No, Microsoft are not screwed. Microsoft's partners are screwed.
  
  Microsoft's partners aren't screwed any more than AMD's or nVidia's. Both make reference video cards. They're not the best or the cheapest, and they give the design away to their partners so they can improve upon it instead of having to invent it from scratch. Microsoft is also bearing the burden of creating a market into which their partners may one day be able to sell product.
  
  Dell has to keep selling Windows because its consumers need it (enterprise and business). Linux is not an option.
  While your first sentence is correct, your second sentence is only correct sometimes. Corporate linux adoption continues, albeit slowly. All the same reasons to do it still exist, and now there are some new ones.
  
  It's not just hardware partners Microsoft is screwing over - channel partners are in deep shit, too. All those millions of little IT shops days are numbered, too.
  You're assuming that the Windows Store will become the only official way to buy Windows software? It's possible, I guess, but I don't actually see it happening until Windows is basically not a thing any more, and the shops will have to diversify into something else to continue to exist anyway.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
30. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by drinkypoo · 2016-07-07 01:47 · Score: 1
  
  'twixt 2 and 3: Apple Newton, Microsoft PocketPC.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
31. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-07 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  Name a Win32/64 supporting drop in replacement for Windows. Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.
  Huh? You folks and your "name a Microsoft product" , and sit back like you just made checkmate in 2 moves.
  It's a zero sum game, as I can name products I use on my OSX machines that are not available on Windows. I don't act like that makes it better or worse. In fact I have one application that is Windows only, so I have a windows machine to use it on.
  Meanwhile, consider agitating to make every nut and bolt 1/2 inch - or 13mm because monoculture is best... right?
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
32. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-07 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  I loaded up a big nasty Excel 2007 spreadsheet in Libreoffice and was pleasantly surprised to find everything working.
  I'm sure there are some bits missing, but it's closer to 99% than to 50% feature-complete.
  You almost have to work at it to mess up the transfer from excel. And I haven't got a complaint yet from people I send excel format spreadsheets I've done in AO.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
33. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Gumbercules!! · 2016-07-07 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not assuming Windows Store will be the only official way to buy Windows Software - I am assuming Office365 will be the only way to buy Office. And it will be the only way to get Exchange email (Hybridised at the very minimum). I'm not talking about desktops here - I am talking about Microsoft deliberately killing small IT shops who peddle SBS style solutions (and one may argue they should be killed - but that's a different story). As Azure and Office365 and OneDrive are more and more baked into Windows and Windows Server, the need for your own Exchange will be diminished and the availability of having it will be taken away - if you want it, you will have to use Office365. So instead of selling a customer say a $6,000 server, Office licenses, SBS licenses, etc. the small IT company will instead have to make do with $0.50 a user, per month, for Office365 tailings... and thus many will go out of business.
34. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-07 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  Product placement, as opposed to just buying a normal TV commercial, reeks of being sneaky and underhanded.
  Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.
  Just seeing an Apple is one thing, but I've yet to see a placement where the user says "Look here what I found on my MacBook Pro with it's great Retina display."
  If I were you, I might find a different argument, whic was made by the OP when he notes the person talking specifically about the Surface.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
35. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 02:14 · Score: 0
  
  It's not that they don't both do product placement, but rather Microsoft is so heavy handed about it forcing the interruption of the normal flow of what you are watching to say "Microsoft!".
36. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by drinkypoo · 2016-07-07 02:20 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not talking about desktops here - I am talking about Microsoft deliberately killing small IT shops who peddle SBS style solutions (and one may argue they should be killed - but that's a different story).
  I strongly doubt that Microsoft will take away those guys' means of selling their product for them. They will probably give them some way to interject themselves into the purchase process.
  
  So instead of selling a customer say a $6,000 server, Office licenses, SBS licenses, etc. the small IT company will instead have to make do with $0.50 a user, per month, for Office365 tailings... and thus many will go out of business.
  Or they can shift to selling people their own non-Microsoft based servers, for those who want to retain control.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
37. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-07-07 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  Name a drop in replacement for Office that supports VBA, plugins and templates.
  If you want a drop-in replacement of COBOL with all the features of COBOL, I'm pretty sure you already know where to find COBOL. :-p
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
38. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Gumbercules!! · 2016-07-07 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft is already doing this. Shops can set up as resellers of Office365 - we have done this - and I kid you not - we make a grand total of $0.09 per month off each user we sign up. Nine fucking cents. So guess how much effort we put into it? I can promise you, everyone in the channel, from the large resellers, to channel partners, to the small shops fully understands that the end is coming for being able to sell OEM Office, Windows, Exchange, etc. SBS is already dead - it no longer exists and can no longer be purchased.
  
  It's also a typical Slashdot response to say "selling people their own non-Microsoft based...." but it's also, with all due respect, completely out of touch with reality.
  
  We don't really deal with small companies and their IT a lot - unless we have a reason to (for example, we look after a small accounting firm, because they're our accountants and I'm socially friendly with them) however here's them as an example. They require specific software for their business to function - there's no Mac option, there's sure as hell no Linux option - they need to use MYOB and Quickbook and System Release. Need to. Not want to. Not choose to. Need to. EVEN if they wanted to change, which they absolutely do not, every single one of their end customers would need to stop using MYOB. So they absolutely have to use Windows. There's no OSS accounting software they can use and they can't force all their customers to use it, so MYOB it is. System Release, the software which allows accounting practices to manage multiple MYOB clients, certainly doesn't have a Linux option on the table.
  
  So how do you propose these people, and the literally millions of people like this, just change? Coz its just oh-so-easy to switch, here on Slashdot.
  
  So not to get too sidetracked - I fear for those companies who still rely on pushing tin and selling Windows and Office to survive because Microsoft is going to go Full Apple on them, eventually and cut them off from the feeding trough.
39. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by SuseLover · 2016-07-07 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  No, Microsoft are not screwed. Microsoft's partners are screwed. If Microsoft starts pushing out equipment that people want and emulates Apple - then there's no need for Dell. Anyway, who is Dell going to get an OS from? Apple? Dell has to keep selling Windows because its consumers need it (enterprise and business). Linux is not an option. It's not just hardware partners Microsoft is screwing over - channel partners are in deep shit, too. All those millions of little IT shops days are numbered, too. Office 365, Azure integrated AD, etc. All spells a lot of trouble for people who have spent the last 10 years selling SBS boxes and PCs to small businesses.
  Why not? The last company I worked at (a small SaaS provider) ran completely on Linux, ESXi (free version) and open source. Windows was not missed at all. We ran one proprietary paid for application necessary for our work. The company has been running fine with very high uptimes, no Weekly/monthly reboots to patch things.
40. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Gumbercules!! · 2016-07-07 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  As I've just replied further down in this thread, because outside of small use-cases and Slashdot, there's many business for whom this is not an option. The example I gave was an accounting firm, who work in the most common accounting packing in Australia, MYOB. About 99% of their clients provide them a MYOB file. MYOB is only available on Windows. MYOB requires a Windows backend server running MSSQL for the accounting practice version (System Release). So how, exactly, do they switch to Linux, SuseLover? Should they invest 10's of thousands of dollars converting MYOB to run on Linux, along with MSSQL (which will one day run on Linux but not yet)? And who's going to do that for them, because they themselves can barely use a mouse, let alone WINE. What about their customers? Or the Internet Explorer only tax portal the Australian Tax Office uses for Accounting practices?
  
  Windows isn't just a big part of the system. Windows *IS* the system.
41. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bondsbw · 2016-07-07 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  5. Apple iPad, Microsoft surface (RT at first).
  Insert: Microsoft Surface Pro, copied by Apple iPad Pro.
  (Well that's what Tim Cook wants you to believe, that they are in the same category... despite the fact that there's nothing "Pro" about any iPad.)
  
  6. MacBook, surface book.
  Those are not in the same category (even if I assume you meant "Macbook Pro"). Surface Book has a touch screen and can separate into an x86 tablet.
  
  7. Now the iMac.
  It is neither a success nor a failure so it doesn't belong in your list.
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
42. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by DogDude · 2016-07-07 03:32 · Score: 2
  
  No. Microsoft is selling the Surface and this proposed product as a super premium offering. People obviously don't want Apple, otherwise they'd be buying Apple. To get work done, people will continue to buy Dells and HP's, and whoever else sells regular computers.
  
  --
  I don't respond to AC's.
43. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bigman2003 · 2016-07-07 03:43 · Score: 2
  
  I think you are giving Apple way too much credit.
  Both companies do a good job of taking other ideas, refining them, then using their size and resources to bring products to market.
  Regarding Bing- yes, there is a need for it. If you only look at consumer search functionality Google serves that purpose, and is generally better than Bing. (I am a lonely Bing user...) But- do you recommend that nobody else compete in this space? More importantly, Microsoft owns the index/search technology they use for other products- such as Cortana. Indexing huge amounts of information is a very important function moving forward. Microsoft reps have stated many times that the primary importance of Bing is not the direct consumer space.
  Apple has had its share of 'me too' products. I bought more than my share of 'Performa' macs, which were just absolute crap. Their Apple Watch is crap. They have had many others. Hell, I owned an Apple III, when everyone with any sense was buying IBM.
  Apple has had a few blockbuster successes, which have led to them being a hugely successful company. But that does not elevate them to some incredible status where they do no wrong or are just better than other companies.
  
  --
  No reason to lie.
44. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  Windows and Office are entrenched in the corporate world. In order for another OS to succeed it either has to be so good that it's worth spending a fortune migrating to arrive at exactly the same place you were at before or it has to be able to do all the things that Windows and Office can do.
45. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  I loaded up a very simple resume in Libre Office and it screwed up the formatting. It's almost as if there's more than one user of a particular software. I'm not defending Microsoft, far from it, but this idea that you can easily move to the competition is delusional.
46. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  If PCs hadn't had TN3270 applications to run the enterprise applications of the day they'd have stayed toys for a lot longer.
47. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by gtall · 2016-07-07 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  If MS goes down that long hard road, the federal government will find a way not to use MS software. Already they are preventing use of Acrobat DC (Dick Cloud...or something). Turns out information really doesn't want to be free and keeping it on Adobe's servers violates a lot of security and privacy rules.
48. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by UnknowingFool · 2016-07-07 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  It is neither a success nor a failure so it doesn't belong in your list.
  The iMac not a success? Bahahahahahaha. That's like saying the PlayStation was neither a success or failure. Now particular models of the iMac may not sell as well as others but it sells well and it is well recognized.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
49. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Wdomburg · 2016-07-07 04:37 · Score: 2
  
  Development on Microsoft Word started back in 1981 by the ex-Xerox employee behind Bravo, a WYSIWYG document editor created in 1974. MacWrite didn't hit the scene until 1984.
50. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by UnknowingFool · 2016-07-07 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  Apple relies heavily on product placement as a key part of their marketing efforts. They have for ages. If I were you, I'd find another talking point.
  I don't think you know what product placement means. It is not advertising in general. Apple does place ads everywhere for its products. That is not product placement. The question is does Apple pay for their products to be mentioned or shown? For example if you watch any NFL game, at least once a game, the commentators have to show a player use a Surface tablet and mentioned it is made by Microsoft. That's because MS paid $300M for the NFL to use and product place. I've never once seen someone using an iPad says "Let's check it using an Apple iPad."
  Now in movies and TV shows you might see Apple products. I don't know if Apple pays for this but my guess is that the media instead pays Apple to show their products because of trademark.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
51. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Wdomburg · 2016-07-07 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  Also, Microsoft was shipping a smartphone back in 2000, seven years before Apple entered the market.
  And the Macbook - without a detached keyboard, active stylus or touchscreen - is not comparable to a Surface Book. It's actually Apple who is copying Microsoft with the iPad Pro.
52. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-07-07 04:50 · Score: 1
  
  PC's didn't run enterprise applications of the day. And honestly, had (IBM) PCs stayed toys, maybe we all would have been running beautiful Acorns or their descendants today. So screw IBM for not keeping IBM PCs as toys.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
53. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by bondsbw · 2016-07-07 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstood, I wasn't talking about the iMac. I was talking about the Surface AIO which was being compared to the iMac.
  Obviously since the AIO is only a rumor and hasn't been released, it can't be deemed either a success or a failure, so it's illogical to add it into a list of successful products with failed copies.
  (Not that the AIO is a copy anyway. We don't know much about it. A touch screen and other features may put it in a different category, and depending on those features it might compete more with Apple TV than with the iMac.)
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
54. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by um...+Lucas · 2016-07-07 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  I use bing, but only because they pay me to with Bing Rewards.
  That's how it should be. If google offered something similar, so that we're not just their captive "product" whose eyes are to be sold, I'd gladly switch my default engines back to them.
55. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by um...+Lucas · 2016-07-07 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  Did you actually see Microsofts smart phone? Not terrible impressive given than they basically wedged their existing Windows UI into a smaller form factor and called in Windows CE (WinCE!).
  Not like it matters. Microsoft had a go at it, failed miserably, and then Apple revisited it many years later (jf you want to call it that) with a new take and was met with huge success. You could pretty much say the same thing for Windows XP Tablet Edition. Sure, Microsoft made a pen based UI for XP and convinced people to sell laptops without keyboards, but that's not really what Apple was aiming for or drawing from with the iPad.
56. Re:Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by um...+Lucas · 2016-07-07 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  At least Apple can do Product Placement right.
  Look what happened when Microsoft tried to do the same:
  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...
  http://macdailynews.com/2016/0...
57. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Wdomburg · 2016-07-07 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't want a fan, you don't have to get one. The Core m3 model is completely fanless. But the option is there if you want a more powerful processor. Even then, it is unlikely for the fan to kick in under normal tablet workloads; the vents are more important when running heavier (or more) applications in laptop mode.
58. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Ok Mr Tediously Pedantic but without a way of accessing the legacy COBOL applications things would've been significantly different.
59. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Wdomburg · 2016-07-07 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  I had one, actually. Work phone.
  The interface was definitely clunky, but it had originally was developed for small PCs rather than handhelds. On the other hand, it had apps, multi-tasking, and cut-and-paste, all features missing from the "not terrible impressive" iPhone OS 1 release back in 2009.
  But regardless of the relative merits of the platforms, it is fatuous to suggest that Microsoft followed Apple into the smartphone market.
60. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by um...+Lucas · 2016-07-07 07:14 · Score: 1
  
  could we say that microsoft followed apple, on account of Apples forays with the Newton, then?
  face it, microsoft stuck its toe in the water and failed. Doubtful they would have returned in earnest if not for Apple and (later) Android. Or else they would have in their "me too" way, and we'd all be walking around with spare stylus' in our pockets...
61. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Wdomburg · 2016-07-07 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Sort of. Newton was position as more of a PDA than a palmtop or pocket computer (and therefore followed in the footsteps of the Psion and GRiDPaD). But then the accusation is that Microsoft chases success, not failure.
  But the idea that Apple inspired Microsoft to enter the smartphone business is still fundamentally silly. Microsoft had both feet in the water long before Apple even took off it's socks. And when Apple finally did make the plunge, Microsoft was well established and was growing their share of the market.
  If anything, they were chasing Symbian, who was the overwhelming market leader by volume, and RIM, who had a lock on the enterprise market.
  Apple certainly lead the industry in introducing touch-oriented devices and in marketing high price smartphones to a primarily consumer market, and in that Microsoft can be seen as somewhat late to the game, sticking far too long with the more capable but less friendly Windows Mobile platform.
  I wouldn't count Microsoft out yet, either. The history of the computing industry is littered with both failures and comebacks. Apple itself spent many years as a marginalized vendor with an outdated platform and dwindling market share. For that matter, they've seen their share of the domestic smartphone market absolutely decimated by Android.
  One potential ace in Microsoft's sleeve is the success of hybrid computers. Whereas Apple and Google leveraged their strength in the handset market to build their respective tablet business, Microsoft has the opportunity to go the other direction. Few ISVs are explicitly targeting Windows phones in particular, but an increasing number are producing UWP apps aimed at the hybrid market, but also compatible with handsets.
62. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 19:34 · Score: 0
  
  Even then, it is unlikely for the fan to kick in under normal tablet workloads
  Q: What's more annoying than a device with a fan?
  A: A device with a fan that runs intermittently.
63. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Andtalath · 2016-07-07 23:58 · Score: 1
  
  The no-margin end of the market...
64. Re: Microsoft's Customers are Screwed.. Again by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-08 12:24 · Score: 0
  
  Of course you are trolling, but for the record, Windows 10 isn't a toy. If it were a toy it would be much more fun.
  Also for the record, people who run back to Mommy to tell are not called "toys", they are called "tattle-tales". You are not only incorrect, you've downgraded people to objects. Children to boot. Still feel good about yourself?
Good luck with that by melted · 2016-07-06 11:24 · Score: 0

Fight an entrenched lifestyle brand with a half baked turd that runs Windows and costs about the same. That's going to fly like a lead balloon.
Does it run macOS? by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-07-06 11:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

If not, it doesn't compete wit the iMac.
1. Re: Does it run macOS? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:33 · Score: 0
  
  People buy the iMac because there is no desktop Mac in the sweet spot between the underpowered mini and the overpriced Pro.
  A mid tower, easy to repair and upgrade, would be much more useful.
2. Re:Does it run macOS? by iggymanz · 2016-07-06 11:38 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure it could run Linux Mint, good enough. I have a mac at work and my wife has one too. They're ok but my god has the UI become too complicated over the years diverging from the initial simplicity. Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys
3. Re: Does it run macOS? by Austerity+Empowers · 2016-07-06 11:49 · Score: 2
  
  Not if it runs Windows. If it ran Linux or macOS? Tempting, providing MS invested the same effort in mfg quality as Apple, I'd even pay more.
4. Re: Does it run macOS? by another_twilight · 2016-07-06 12:03 · Score: 2
  
  A large number (most?) of people who buy a computer are never going to repair or upgrade it. Of those machines that are opened up, a large number will be repaired or upgraded by a technician or support staff and even then, the vast majority are only going to have RAM increased. Gamers and people with a technical bent like to be able to access their machines, but for almost everyone else, they are appliances and accessibility just adds space and cost.
  I'd also love to see something between the mini and the Pro in a tech-friendly format, but both of us belong to a very small market sector and one that Apple has no interest in.
  Macs used to remain useful for longer than Windows PCs. Part of that was OSX, part of it was different users and use cases. AIOs made no sense in the PC world, where you'd need to be throwing the whole thing away every couple of years, rather than upgrading components. It was a better proposition on the Mac side of things. These days, however, a 5 year old mid-level PC is still useful. A Windows/PC AIO isn't as bad a choice as once it was. Microsoft can make decent hardware, but suffers from coming late to markets with products that are as good as _but_no_better_ than those already in the field. If it can avoid playing catch-up with Apple and the iMac a Microsoft AIO isn't necessarily a bad concept.
  Lot's of 'ifs'.
5. Re:Does it run macOS? by GrahamCox · 2016-07-06 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys
  
  True. But they are the same keys they've always been, right back to the very original Mac. Mac users just know what they are, it's part of their DNA.
  
  Incidentally, taking a screenshot to a file (which is put on the desktop) is easier and a lot more typical.
6. Re: Does it run macOS? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:55 · Score: 0
  
  People buy the iMac because there is no desktop Mac in the sweet spot between the underpowered mini and the overpriced Pro. A mid tower, easy to repair and upgrade, would be much more useful.
  Damn; I hear 1999 calling.
7. Re: Does it run macOS? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:58 · Score: 0
  
  A mid tower, easy to repair and upgrade, would be much more useful.
  And remove an awful lot of initial customer overspend from Apple's bottom line. The lack of such a machine has always annoyed me as iMacs run too hot, and it has given rise to the world of hackintosh, but I can kind of see why they do it (other than to be total dicks).
8. Re:Does it run macOS? by DavidRavenMoon · 2016-07-06 15:37 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure it could run Linux Mint, good enough. I have a mac at work and my wife has one too. They're ok but my god has the UI become too complicated over the years diverging from the initial simplicity. Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys
  What? How long have you been using a Mac? Command-Shift-Control-4 captures the window and copies it to the clipboard. That's the same key combination it always was. Linux has the worst UI regardless of which desktop environment you use. I run several versions of Linux, as well as Windows 10 and Haiku on my iMac (OpenStep too). I've been using Macs since the early 90s. The interface isn't all that much different, but you can do a lot more now. But try running System 7.5 for an hour. You'll realize you can't do much on it! (how did I spend so much time on the computer before the Interwebs?)
  
  --
  -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
9. Re:Does it run macOS? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 15:51 · Score: 0
  
  You probably spent time troubleshooting which extensions were conflicting and causing crashes. Or disabling control panels so your computer would start in a reasonable time. And then reinstalling some, because you really couldn't live without those eyes following your mouse cursor. And those flying toasters are cool, so better reactivate After Dark.
10. Re:Does it run macOS? by ChunderDownunder · 2016-07-06 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  Huh, most people on a PC just press the "Print Screeen" key.
11. Re: Does it run macOS? by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-07-06 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  Now, how intuitive is that compared to alt shift control whatever?
  Doesn't even sound like "DNA" or some other Guy Kawasaki cuteness. Think different with your a,tivec zscsi risc, or something.
  Throw your cyberdog a bone. And shitcan a few cpu architectures, just for good measure.
12. Re: Does it run macOS? by narcc · 2016-07-06 18:31 · Score: 2
  
  That's cute, but there are innumerable reasons why MacOS maintains a tiny fraction of the desktop market (Various sources place this between 5 and 10 percent currently). Equally so for Linux (though they hold a smaller fraction of the desktop). Use whatever you like, but neither of those alternatives are, apparently, suitable for options for many users. At this point in time, alternatives like those are some people can, at best, "get away with running".
  Even Apple's tiny share, in OS terms, might be in question. Back in early 2006, when the Intel Mac was still a hot topic, some 39% of Mac users planned to install boot camp, one survey reported. I can't find any current numbers (I suspect Apple wouldn't want us to know) but it seems that the ability to run Windows on a Mac is pretty important to Mac owners, given how much time and effort Apple has invested in that feature.
  Linux is king of the server, but no one seems to want it on the desktop. It's free, and handles common tasks well, but that simply isn't enough to drive users to adopt it. Too many "can I ..." and "I want ..." questions are still answered by even the most committed Linux advocate with a "you can't, but..." response.
  Whatever your personal feelings, Windows is, without question, the more useful desktop OS for the majority of users. That may change in the future, but I can't see it happening any time soon.
  
  --
  Required reading for internet skeptics
13. Re: Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-06 19:59 · Score: 1
  
  People buy the iMac because there is no desktop Mac in the sweet spot between the underpowered mini and the overpriced Pro. A mid tower, easy to repair and upgrade, would be much more useful.
  Give it a rest. The days of the tower computer are sadly numbered, at least outside the server and game rooms.
  
  People buy iMacs because they are easy, understandable, elegant and a good value (notice I did not say CHEAP).
  
  While I would like to see a mid-tower from Apple, it just isn't going to happen; and obviously, they don't feel a marketing "hole" for not having that configuration.
14. Re: Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:05 · Score: 2
  
  Whatever your personal feelings, Windows is, without question, the more useful desktop OS for the majority of users. That may change in the future, but I can't see it happening any time soon.
  Useful? More like Entrenched.
  
  And Mac Users that install BootCamp generally do it because they want to; but rather because their work environment forces Windows on them.
  
  Windows is more like a self-replicating virus than a reasonable OS these days.
  
  And I develop Windows business Applications; so I spend quite a bit of time in their OSes.
  
  Makes me appreciate macOS all the more...
15. Re:Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:09 · Score: 1
  
  Just taking a picture of a window to the clipboard takes a lot of keys
  
  True. But they are the same keys they've always been, right back to the very original Mac. Mac users just know what they are, it's part of their DNA.
  
  Incidentally, taking a screenshot to a file (which is put on the desktop) is easier and a lot more typical.
  I just use macOS' Grab Utility. I have been using Macs since they were called Lisas, and I think I have used the keyboard-shortcut for "Save a Screenshot to Clipboard" about 2 or 3 times in my life.
  
  The OP needs to find a better meme.
16. Re:Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:14 · Score: 1
  
  You probably spent time troubleshooting which extensions were conflicting and causing crashes. Or disabling control panels so your computer would start in a reasonable time. And then reinstalling some, because you really couldn't live without those eyes following your mouse cursor. And those flying toasters are cool, so better reactivate After Dark.
  Extension conflicts happened for awhile; but for every Mac Extension Conflict, I will see you and raise you TEN Interrupt Configuration nightmares and DLL Hell incidents on DOS/Windows systems.
17. Re:Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  Huh, most people on a PC just press the "Print Screeen" key.
  Cool.
  
  Now type me an accented "e", like é. In Windows, you have to memorize some frickin' ALT+nnn Code (which can ONLY be entered on a NUMERIC KEYPAD, and which is COMPLETELY different for each accented character!), but on my MacBook Pro, I just have to type Option + e + e.
  
  Now, which do you think people (especially those living in "accented-letters"-lands) do more often?
  
  And don't get me started on that ridiculous "Invert the Shift Key if in Caps-Lock" bit with Windows. That just needs to die...
18. Re:Does it run macOS? by ChunderDownunder · 2016-07-06 20:31 · Score: 1
  
  Order a macbook pro from Quebec or Mexico with a sensible keyboard?
  On my Spanish keyboard I just type the accent key followed by the vowel I wish to type, for acutes, graves, circumflexes and umlauts. Anything else is just Alt-GR.
  And when I am forced to use a US keyboard, switching layouts is trivial. c.f. how keyboards in internet cafes are switched to QWERTZ because of those blond-haired blue-eyed Aryan women.
19. Re: Does it run macOS? by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-06 22:44 · Score: 1
  
  You are of course every Mac user in history
20. Re:Does it run macOS? by wicka_wicka · 2016-07-06 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  Linux has the worst UI regardless of which desktop environment you use.
  I really wish Linux evangelists would stop fighting this obviously true fact and start working harder to develop a desktop environment that actually competes with Windows and Mac.
  
  --
  hi
21. Re:Does it run macOS? by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-07-07 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  I do have Linux Mint on my iMac, as a virtual machine image. I fire it up occasionally to see how the Lunux world is faring. Every time, it slips a little farther behind macOS.
22. Re: Does it run macOS? by macs4all · 2016-07-07 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  You are of course every Mac user in history
  Shhh! Don't tell everyone!
23. Re:Does it run macOS? by iggymanz · 2016-07-13 12:43 · Score: 1
  
  WRONG! that captures the screen, then you hit space to get window shot
  what a bunch of bullshit
  I've been using mac since 1992
  interface is getting absurd
24. Re:Does it run macOS? by iggymanz · 2016-07-13 12:46 · Score: 1
  
  I wish you windows/mac evangelists would stop spewing nonsense about your inferior UI, MacOSX is so stupid it doesn't even use the "file" command built in to tell something is a text file so it can open it in the text editor! High IQ morons making that stuff
  I find MATE superior for my work than the bloated Mac OSX which doesn't even have all the necessary default directories in the Finder
Microsoft is never going to get ahead by surfdaddy · 2016-07-06 11:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

...by continuing their Apple and other company envy. They need to do some ground-breaking things that are unique for themselves AND are wildly successful in the market. Not be a clueless follower:
Mac OS, so then Microsoft creates Windows
iPod, so then Microsoft creates Zune
Google search, so then Microsoft creates Bing
Google does ads, so then Microsoft has to do ads
Apple app store, so then Microsoft creates an app store
Apple stores, so then Microsoft has to have stores
Apple provides free OS updates, so then Microsoft has to provide a free OS update
Apple high-end hardware, so then Microsoft has to have high-end hardware
Apple all in one PCs, so then Microsoft has to make all-in-one PCs
1. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:42 · Score: 0
  
  You have identified the marketing dweebs that MS hires.
  It is amazing that MS still hires stupids. When will actual engineers with a clue get a voice at MS?
2. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Proudrooster · 2016-07-06 11:46 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  They have done a few ground breaking things.
  1. XBOX Kinect
  2. The BING search engine featuring pretty background images.
  3. The Developers, Developers, Developers song by Steve Balmer, ex CEO.
  4. Visual Studio, Visual Basic, and .NET
  5. And who could forget Clippy and Microsoft Bob?
  6. The Ribbon Interface.
  and let's not forget about Microsoft Movie Maker. but they still didn't include it in Windows 10. :(
  So while it is a mixed bag, they are trying and experimenting. Oh and don't forget they own MINECRAFT now!
3. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:53 · Score: 0
  
  Clippy and Bob is not ground breaking. In fact that was universally dissed as supreme stupid.
  Bing is a copy of Google.
  And Minecraft, so they own it, they did not invent it. Soon I bet people will think Skype was invented by MS too.
4. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by surfdaddy · 2016-07-06 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  1 - Kinect was kind of a failure, Microsoft never saw it through to fruition and significant value. It flamed and died.
  2 - Background images are nice and I guess a 10-20% market share is ok. But that has to include the Yahoo partnership.
  3 - Nonsensical
  4 - OK, that's decent at least
  5 - Those were jokes
  6 - The ribbon interface is at least potentially decent. I find it annoying that in a world where our aspect ratio has become landscape rather than portrait, the ribbon takes away further from the vertical real estate, and you can't change the ribbon to a vertical one. Stupid.
5. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by johnsmithperson123 · 2016-07-06 12:49 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget DOS.
6. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by GoChickenFat · 2016-07-06 13:08 · Score: 2
  
  Your list is true but of course, MS does more than PCs and PC hardware. If Apple were so awesome we'd all be using them at work but those of us old enough know that Apple failed at the business market in the 80's and 90's and is still not a competitor for enterprise. They still don't have a competing email server or office productivity suite or DB or enterprise domain management or robust user access controls or server OS or print servers, file servers, collaboration environment, web server, development language, etc.
  btw, I HATE my surface 4. It's massively flawed, primarily due to the Intel Skylake failures with sleep mode that they're still trying to fix with UEFI updates. I HATE going from the doc to tablet and back. I always have to reboot just get the screen resolution back AND I have to continually resize the windows. The doc has an weird 10 second time out for wireless adaptors that causes missed keystrokes and delayed mouse response - solution is to move the adaptor to the tablet. It's maddening, especially considering it performs rather well as a PC once all the annoyances are dealt with and it's portability and keyboard cover are nice and very usable.
7. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:10 · Score: 0
  
  Which Gates purchased for 50K.
  Funny, Apple isn't moving away from PC's, but that's not the focus of their future plans. M$ is about the $h1t the bed.
8. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:20 · Score: 0
  
  If Microsoft introduced the equivalent of a SunRay terminal/workstation for home and office users, they might stand a chance. It is unfortunate Sun Microsystems did not properly market these devices.
9. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2016-07-06 13:21 · Score: 2
  
  Microsoft's motto should be, "Wait For Us, We're The Leader!"
  
  --
  Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
10. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Killall+-9+Bash · 2016-07-06 13:27 · Score: 2
  
  WHOOOOOOSH!!!!!
  
  --
  "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
11. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Killall+-9+Bash · 2016-07-06 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  IBMDOS was a half-assed clone of QDOS. The makers of QDOS (a husband and wife programming team) were willing to sell it to MS, but MS didn't want to pay what they were asking, so ripped them off instead.
  
  --
  "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
12. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:38 · Score: 0
  
  I think the "clueless follower" thing was a deliberate strategy at one time: let the pioneers work the bugs out and build it up to a decent market, then bully their way in with a halfway-decent me-too product. "Embrace, extend, extinguish." And have Gates say "We're innovators!" repeatedly for appearance's sake. That way they sort of looked high-tech and sexy without having taken any real risks.
13. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:43 · Score: 0
  
  You missed out
  Apple has OSX (ten) Microsoft has to have Windows 10
  On the Microsoft front though , their mice are far far better than the Apple ones. Since Apple went with USB, the first thing I ever did with a Apple mouse is to sell it off to some other idiot and buy myself a Microsoft mouse. I still use my one from over 10 years ago.
  Apple mice are the Zune of the mouse world, now if only they would die and go away to reduce the waste stream.
14. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft paid for it, US$50,000 or something like that.
  QDOS was a rip off of CPM from Digital Research, who didn't get paid.
  Still boot my Osbourne 1 and Kaypro10 for nostalgias sake
15. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 14:10 · Score: 0
  
  Weird I use my one at work daily, and I support about 100 people plus a couple of teaching labs in a University who use Macs. Many Staff never use microsoft products at all, they use Latex, Matlab, Chemdraw, Geneious, Photoshop, Acrobat, Open Office, FilemakerPro, Mathematica, etc etc etc etc all on a Mac.
  I also Run OSX server at home on 2 Mac minis to act as my DNS, Print, Fileshare, Web server, VPN, Media Server , Mobile Home Directories ,Time Machine backups, Single sign on with Kerberos, Shared Calendars, Software update servers for the Macs and IOS devices, etc etc. I happily share files with by Brother who is a Windows user, I run a DNLA plugin so the Xbox/PS4 has access to the multimedia server.
  You may also have Missed OSX development tools XCode and their latest language Swift.
  OSX has the usual Unix file permissions as well as Windows like ACLs.
16. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 14:25 · Score: 0
  
  +5 Informative
17. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 15:37 · Score: 0
  
  A home OSX server with 2 macs and another windows user is not an enterprise level environment.
  Things get really tricky when you have multiple LDAP forests with 2 way trust and require fine grained workstation control with group policies. As far as I am aware the Microsoft platform is a lot more suited for this than Apple's. Apple has traditionally always catered for the general consumer and their products and software reflect that.
18. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  XBox Kinect
  They didn't invent that. They BOUGHT it. Only reason Apple doesn't have it instead of MS, was that the original company that invented what became Kinect liked MS' buyout deal better than Apple's.
19. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:39 · Score: 1
  
  . They still don't have a competing email server or office productivity suite or DB or enterprise domain management or robust user access controls or server OS or print servers, file servers, collaboration environment, web server, development language, etc.
  And that is because Apple considers itself a hardware company; not a software publisher.
  
  But I would argue about your "Development Language" assertion. Apple has a fine IDE (which, unlike VS, is FREE), that supports several "Development Languages".
20. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:47 · Score: 2
  
  A home OSX server with 2 macs and another windows user is not an enterprise level environment.
  Things get really tricky when you have multiple LDAP forests with 2 way trust and require fine grained workstation control with group policies. As far as I am aware the Microsoft platform is a lot more suited for this than Apple's. Apple has traditionally always catered for the general consumer and their products and software reflect that.
  Here's the point: For every business that is the size that needs to have "multiple LDAP forests and 2 way trust that require fine grained workstation control and group policies" (and, more importantly, the attendant Computer Priests to utter the proper incantations and shake the incense burners over their server racks), there are 1,000,000 homes and small businesses that could get by just fine with a Mac mini server QUIETLY tucked away on a shelf.
  
  Not every business is a Fortune 500 multinational. In fact, only 500 businesses are, eh?
21. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-06 20:48 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft's motto should be, "Wait For Us, We're The Leader!"
  PERFECT!!!
22. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-06 22:49 · Score: 2
  
  VS is also free.
23. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 22:50 · Score: 0
  
  Don't forget Microsoft Songsmith and the many groundbreaking reimaginings of classic songs that it has made possible.
24. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 22:59 · Score: 0
  
  But Microsoft didn't do a tablet or a smartphone to compete with Apple... oh no wait...
25. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-07 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  VS is also free.
  I had heard that MS was discontinuing their free version of VS.
  
  I see that there is VS "Community" (f/k/a Visual Studio "Express"?), which implies it is in some way a stripped-down or "lite" version of VS.
  
  XCode is XCode. All free. No "Lite" version. No "Community" version. The whole enchilada.
  
  Not exactly the same thing. With VS (as with all MS products) there is a confusing array of "Levels" or "Packages". VS is NOT VS.
26. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by DogDude · 2016-07-07 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  You do realize that they're the most profitable longest running computer-related company in the history of the world, right? I think it's fair to say that they don't need to worry about "getting ahead".
  
  --
  I don't respond to AC's.
27. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  It's still free.
28. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-07 04:08 · Score: 1
  
  It's still free.
  Yes, they offer a dumbed-down "Community" version that, for certain use cases is Free.
  
  But XCode is Free. Not just SOME of it. ALL of it.
29. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by surfdaddy · 2016-07-07 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  But in the consumer space, Apple gathers the major bulk of the profits. Most of Microsoft's profits are from enterprise offerings.
30. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by caution+live+frogs · 2016-07-07 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  You have a few inaccuracies there. Last I checked, every Mac was capable of running the server extensions (no need to buy a special server-only version - there's 1 OS that does it all). And they all come with file server/web server functionality baked in (SSH/SFTP is baked in; Apache runs a huge percentage of the web, and every Mac has Apache preinstalled - along with a perfectly serviceable development environment, no additional installations needed unless you want to run non-stock versions of the most common programming languages). CUPS - the common Unix printing server - was purchased by Apple and is part of every Mac since OS X 10.2. XCode is free. Swift development language is free. I don't know what your issue is with user access controls, but UNIX permissions are a lot simpler to handle than the mess that is Windows (for example, why should I have to open an email client to make changes to a secure distribution group to manage folder access permissions?)
  I'm a government employee in a large federal department. My federally-supplied work computer is a Mac. Yes, not all of us use them, but enough of us use them that there's a clear argument against the insistence that Macs can't ever fit into an enterprise environment.
31. Re:Microsoft is never going to get ahead by sir1963nz · 2016-07-07 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  The post said no server OS, No printer spooler, Web Server, Development Language, Email server, etc etc etc which was patently WRONG. Our Macs are used by Chemists, Statisticians, Mathematicians, Physicists, Microbiologist, Engineers, Vets, etc Computers are only limited by the imagination of the user. Oh, and yes, we have users with Windows and Linux too. We strongly believe in giving our staff the computer that makes them the most productive. And the Macs, Linux,Windows boxes are are all part of the same Condor Cluster we use for R and other tasks.
32. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  It's still free
33. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by macs4all · 2016-07-07 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  It's still free
  True, for limited values of "it".
34. Re: Microsoft is never going to get ahead by cyber-vandal · 2016-07-07 23:48 · Score: 1
  
  Unlike you though I had a look at the differences and there isn't a huge amount missing from the community edition, not surprising given that it has so much free competition. Feel free to have a look and see if there's anything XCode can do that VS Community Edition can't.
Eh by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:38 · Score: 0

Why not do them with the AMD Bristol Ridge chips and then call them "Gaming All In Ones"?
So now Microsoft is copying Apple? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 11:48 · Score: 0

Oh wait, they already did that 30 years ago!
1. Re:So now Microsoft is copying Apple? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 23:47 · Score: 0
  
  why not, apple copies everyone else.
2. Re:So now Microsoft is copying Apple? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  It's bitztream, the autism-hating Slashdot troll!
When will they ever learn by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 12:50 · Score: 0

Nobody Wants an All in One!
1. Re:When will they ever learn by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 15:12 · Score: 0
  
  What do you think Laptops are ?
  An All in one is a different form factor.
All-In-Ones suck by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 16:19 · Score: 0

Have you ever tried to service one of those damn things? Good god, I took a hard drive out of a PPC iMac, but it didn't matter what kind of damage I did since it was being scrapped anyway. They're harder to take apart than laptops.
If Microsoft wants to make a new market, they should make a tablet than can act as a secondary/third monitor. A Windows PC could extend its desktop to it either via software or hardware; it would use a special VESA-type stand (with a built-in HDMI/DP/Thunderbolt-type connection for true pass-through). They could seamlessly share files and update mail/calendars. When the use is done, the take it off the stand and take it with them.
And they should include a weighty keyboard base (probably filled with a battery pack) to connect it to. Their "thin keyboard" concept never made sense going back to the Tablet PC days.
Good lord these things are ugly. by jpellino · 2016-07-06 17:39 · Score: 2

I mean sheet 4 of the drawings takes the cake, and all of them pretty much look like they got creative with a spare parts bin from several other appliance companies. Frankly I was shocked NOT to see a 1950s pull-lever ice cube tray as part of one of the designs.

--
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Unnecessary Editorial slap at Digitimes by retroworks · 2016-07-06 17:45 · Score: 1

" DigiTimes, a Taiwan-based publication with connections to the PC industry over there (but also a very mixed record of accuracy) said the new devices would come in the third quarter of this year."
Digitimes mainly reports on the incredibly extensive second and third party research of display technology industry from Chinese (Taipei) language technical journals, and has been one of the best tech sector news journals I've relied on over 20 years. Sure, sometimes predictions and schedules reported to Digitimes don't happen but that's usually the fault of the industry source whom Digitimes quotes.
I would feel nit-picky making this point, but at Slashdot of all places, which regularly cites blogs as news articles, the slap at Digitimes comes across as cringeworthy. I hesitate to play the "r" card, but it reminds me of all the other BS we are constantly reading about Taiwan and Hong Kong "primitive processes" and "child labor" and "suicide nets" etc. Digitimes is the one of the best news sources ever cited on /., if not the most "articulate", and dinging it with the unnecessary parenthetical rubs me the wrong way.

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Gently reply
Is this even a significant market? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-06 23:55 · Score: 0

Is the all in one desktop computer a big market anymore? All I see in discounts from HP and Dell is all in one's being heavily discounted. I once thought of the iMac as a good desktop, but since Apple has basically made it difficult if not impossible to upgrade. It's basically worthless to invest that much in a iMac. I cannot imagine a Surface device would be any better.
All in one by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 01:15 · Score: 0

Jack of all trades, master of none.
ZUNE? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-07 02:14 · Score: 0

They should rename them "ZUNE Surface".
It's Been Done Before by EndlessNameless · 2016-07-07 10:28 · Score: 1

Someone has to innovate or offer quality products when the entrenched suppliers are mass-producing the same boring crap they produced last year.
Apple introduced the Newton a few years before PDAs took off.
Microsoft demoed a smartphone two years before that market took off.
Intel developed the ultrabook concept because laptop OEMs were complacent.
Microsoft made the Surface because the laptop OEMs were being cheap and producing crap for convertibles.
While I will continue to build my own PCs for the foreseeable future, I can still see a lot of places that would benefit from inexpensive-yet-durable AIO PCs. Education, basic users, and kiosks for starters.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.