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Sir Tim Berners-Lee Makes a Last-Minute Plea To Save Net Neutrality in Europe (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report on The Verge: Sir Tim Berners-Lee, the man who created the world wide web, is calling on regulators in Europe to protect net neutrality and "save the open internet." In a letter released this week, Berners-Lee, Stanford law professor Barbara van Schewick, and Harvard law professor Larry Lessig urged European regulators to implement guidelines that would close loopholes in net neutrality legislation that the European Parliament approved in October 2015. They also called on internet users to voice their opposition online, before the public consultation period on the guidelines ends on July 18th. "Network neutrality for hundreds of millions of Europeans is within our grasp," the letter reads. "Securing this is essential to preserve the open Internet as a driver for economic growth and social progress. But the public needs to tell regulators now to strengthen safeguards, and not cave in to telecommunications carriers' manipulative tactics."

44 comments

  1. EME by SkunkPussy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Well we've already lost an open web due to Encrypted Media Extensions. Do we even need net neutrality any more?

    --
    SURELY NOT!!!!!
    1. Re:EME by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      I regard EME much less as loss than as workaround needed to abandon proprietary plugins like adobe flash. Yes, EME is evil, but flash is even more evil.

    2. Re:EME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the technician's viewpoint. It isn't whether EME can be hacked or that it might be more narrowly applied than the shitfest that came before that matters.

      It's the principle that DRM is now an official sanctioned standard rather than something done by individual actors in their personal corners of the web that is the problem.

    3. Re:EME by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

      Well we've already lost an open web due to Encrypted Media Extensions. Do we even need net neutrality any more?

      Completely different issues altogether. I can personally choose not to visit a website that uses EME, just like I personally choose not to visit a website that condones Holocaust denial and the like. If net neutrality dies, my ISP can deny me the bandwidth necessary to go to certain websites.

      Here's an analogy that might help. Imagine it's about 1950 or so. EME is like a locked vending box for a newspaper stack, you have to put a quarter in the slot to be able to read a copy. Net neutrality is like a policeman that watches to make sure that some mafioso doesn't come burn all of the newspapers except for the one that pays them protection money.

    4. Re:EME by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      The standard still requires "individual actors" in order to be implemented: The actual DRM is done in separate modules.

    5. Re:EME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Completely different issues altogether. I can personally choose not to visit a website that uses EME

      Just like you can avoid public surveillance cameras by choosing not to leave your house.

      Sure today EME is not widely deployed. But that's only because its not even a finished standard. It can and will be used far beyond Berners-Lee's imagination. Just like the DMCA is now regularly used to censor speech that offends powerful people and corps. It isn't just about having some restricted content, its about restructuring the web such that restricted content is at its core.

    6. Re:EME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Another technician's response.
      Again it is not about the details of the implementation.
      It is about the imprimatur of legitimacy given to the mindset.

      We've gone from the principle of openness at the very core of the web to a principle of restriction and control. Its doubly worse that people writing the EME standard have specifically worded it to slot into laws like the DMCA to maximize rigid legal interpretation so that tinkering and innovation will be stopped before it even gets started.

    7. Re:EME by stephenmac7 · · Score: 1

      Flash with 98% adoption at one point was hardly a personal corner of the web.

      --
      "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." -- Judge Gideon J. Tucker
    8. Re:EME by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      It is because we have things like EME that net neutrality is important.
      EME in itself is not bad, it is just another DRM system that can be used by content providers. Those who don't want to use it don't have to use it, and this is where net neutrality comes in : it makes sure that content providers who chose not to use it get their fair share of bandwidth.

  2. Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember when Colin Powell got up before the UN and said Iraq had WMDs? I do because that was the day I lost all respect for Powell.

    Berners-Lee had his Colin Powell moment when he said DRM should be part of the HTML standard. I agree with his points about network neutrality, but he no longer has the moral standing to champion the ideals of the open internet.

    1. Re:Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      One of these guys repeated lies, and one of them expressed an opinion. I'm glad to see that you equate these things.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Maybe he should be more concerned that most of Europe is turning into a caliphate. How important is net neutrality when the leading Imam's outlaw most of the Internet and make visiting offensive websites punishable by death via stoning?

    3. Re:Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Both of these guys used their positions of authority to advance terrible policy in contradiction to their claimed ideals.

      Hypocrisy has many faces. Don't be an apologist for hypocrisy just because it doesn't look identical to another case of hypocrisy.

    4. Re: Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than just an opinion because Timmie is a large part of W3C, not just some unknown zontar on the internet.

    5. Re: Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      It may be greatly exaggerated but ranting about ignorant fundamentalists, regardless of "flavor of their nuttiness" is hardly racist. And for what it's worth, Christian fundamentalists aren't any better; they're just as gullible re: believing delusional horseshit and just as capable of doing tremendous evil in the name of their "god."

    6. Re: Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, please!

      When your best defense against an accusation of bigotry is a narrow dictionary parsing of the word "race" then you are already so deep in losing territory that you might as well just admit you are on the wrong side.

    7. Re: Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Maybe Tim is a pragmatist. Maybe Zontar is, too.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re: Berners-Lee is Colin Powell by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It must suck, now that every intelligent person is just ignoring your bleats.

      That's racist...

      Ideologies are exactly the things that are not bigotry to judge by. Sorry about your world view, it's broken.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  3. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

    Many ISPs are publicly subsidized in order to roll out Internet access to rural areas. Why should they have gotten so much of the tax payer's money in order to screw them over with censorship and racketeering?

  4. Don't depend on the public by fustakrakich · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Most people don't want "neutrality", they want priority...

    Net neutrality means dumb pipe. If your bits aren't getting through fast enough, you get a fatter pipe, not restrict other peoples' traffic.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Don't depend on the public by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People do want "dumb pipes". They just don't realize it. It is in their best interest to do so. The vast majority doesn't even know how networks work.

    2. Re:Don't depend on the public by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are referring to how people act, not how they feel (with the exception of avowed sociopaths such as yourself)

    3. Re:Don't depend on the public by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      NN usually allows QoS.

      As it should. NN is tricky.

      Good thing we put it in the hands of our wise and incorruptible politicians, they are sure to do a good job and efficiently correct any mistakes they make. (Does that really need a /sarc?)

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Don't depend on the public by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      NN usually allows QoS.

      As it should. NN is tricky. (I can't tell, did the sarc tag apply here also? If it did, ignore my post)

      I'm sorry, but that is a mistaken belief. NN and QoS are in direct opposition to each other. You can have one, but never both. The internet must be made agnostic to be neutral. QoS is just the cheap way out of building robust infrastructure. It is done for expedience, not to raise "quality". It can serve well in a private intranet, but on the WAN QoS is pure politics to prioritize big money, and the client/server monopoly we are under today probably precludes anything else. There is a way and plenty of money to do it right, with neural, ad hoc, whatever-net, but there is little will while most people think what we have is "good enough". All hindrance to a better system is politically based. The technology already exists.

      And also a good start would be to declare internet service as a public utility. Content is absolutely nobody's business, outside the sender and intended recipient. Try telling that to a European (or any other, for that matter) bureaucrat though. They'll try to control face to face communications.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Be angry at the government, not the ISPs.

    Why should people who live together in the city subsidize the lifestyles of people in the country?

  6. Network Neutrality (the poem) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Network Neutrality (the poem)

    All MY networks are neutral
    Though my cables are red and blue
    All my thoughts and feelings
    Are networkly neutral too
    Comcast wants to slow down my Netflix too
    Even though I paid for the bandwidth I use
    Google and Facebook like to hate on Donald Trump
    Whose daughter he himself would even like to hump
    Some would like to make visiting websites
    A very serious crime
    Have you seen your snapchats?
    Here's some junk of mine.
    And now we need legislation
    That is networkly neutral too
    And now the corporations
    Are... slowing... down... my... poems........too.

    1. Re:Network Neutrality (the poem) by downright · · Score: 1

      Mod up please

  7. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    Even in the cities ISPs use public right of way for their access and equipment. If they had to buy/lease that land it would cost them many billions. Once companies start paying for the COMPLETE cost of doing business we won't ask them for anything.

  8. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by spacepimp · · Score: 2

    The laws preventing local ISPs/community ISP's and competition are rampant in the US. Therefore competition is stymied from the onset. Remove those barriers to competition and then what you are asking is valid.

  9. In the good-old US of A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We could solve more than half of the internet poop being dealt by declaring that ALL of the internet companies are utilities.
    Regulation of fees, investigation of company claims, control of any and all tax breaks,
    part of the public service commission devoted to utility problems handling comsumer complaints,
    Declaring null and void any localized monopoly contracts.

    When?

  10. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    False question. The question isn't whether bureaucrats should be allowed to shape traffic, the question is whether ANYONE but the two endpoints should be allowed to do so. Net Neutrality means exactly that NOBODY meddles with the flow of bits, which includes that ISPs are just transporters of bits and not arbitrators on whose bits go where with what priority.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. How much did you pay? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Whether your note gets heeded by EU parliamentarians is mostly dependent on how many other notes you attached to it, and what denomination those notes have.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly, the answer to your question is "YES"; the owners of the capital between the 2 endpoints have a right to decide how their capital is allocated.

    Do the bureaucrats have a legitimate claim to ownership of that capital? Maybe they do, but that's irrelevant to the point.

  13. Know your place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that Tim Berners-Lee is on his way to not being an EU citizen anymore, but as long as he is one, he should remember his place: EU citizens do not and should not ever challenge or discuss the directives of the EU Commission. Even entertaining the thought is treasonous. I want to make absolutely clear that as a loyal citizen of the European Union I will never, ever question the decisions of our leaders in the EU Commission. I am deeply upset by the british treason of the great European ideals and I am ready and willing to lay down my life and the life of my whole family in order to redress this horrible turn of events. I feel that the english people must be harshly punished for their actions but I will wait for orders from Brussels, as any loyal European citizen should do. Hail Europe! Hail the European Union!

    1. Re:Know your place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's 10 Euro. Please treat yourself to a heaping helping of STFU.

  14. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    They almost all use easements over private land. Same as many roads. The ISPs and power companies do pay to maintain the posts and wires.

    You (the homeowner) don't get paid for easements, the original developer didn't ether. They are there because otherwise you couldn't get power to your house. It's in your self interest to allow the easements.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  15. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    QoS is allowed under every net neutrality law I'm aware of.

    And it should be. VOIP packets are higher priority than torrents etc.

    The problem is net neutrality has tricky implementation details. Which are now under regulatory capture.

    Increasing competition would have been a much better way to fix this. Now we've got the usual suspects fucking up laws on NN.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  16. Manipulative tactics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Securing this is essential to preserve the open Internet as a driver for economic growth and social progress. But the public needs to tell regulators now to strengthen safeguards, and not cave in to telecommunications carriers' manipulative tactics."

    Rallying supporters to communicate their opinions to regulators is itself a manipulative tactic. It gives the regulators a skewed view of the public support/opposition of the proposed net-neutrality rules.

    Also, I debate that net neutrality is "essential to preserving the open internet". As a tech-minded individual not connected to any of the telecoms, I oppose net neutrality as I oppose all forms of regulatory overreach and fascism and defend economic freedom. I do this with the full knowledge that while I personally value an open internet (and therefore will pay more for such a connection), most people don't and will prefer, for example, a cheaper, Netflix-focused connection. I will not support the use of coercion to "tell the masses what's good for them" to skew the market to my advantage.

  17. Public consultation by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    EU does not care about elections (Remember referendums in France, Netherland, Ireland, Greece?). Mr Junker even openly said there was no democratic alternative to EU treaties.

    So why EU would care about public opinion from a public consultation? Be sure they will discard anything they did not want to hear.

  18. He invented the hyperlink, not The Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So much undue credit is given to Tim-Berners Lee and CERN.
    It's like being the OS contributor who decided to have a nice little clock in the bottom-right corner of the screen and being celebrated as the man who invented the GUI. Or like being Steve Jobs.

    1. Re:He invented the hyperlink, not The Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: Douglas Engelbert invented the hyperlink way before Tim Berners-Lee. So Tim Berners-Lee really didn't invent anything.
      Douglas Engelbert on the other hand invented (in so many ways) the computer of the modern era.

  19. Re:Net Neutrality is myopic by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but what "capital" are you talking about?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.