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WikiLeaks Releases 300K Turkey Government Emails In Response To Erdogan's Post-Coup Purges (rt.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from RT: Despite a massive cyberattack on its website, WikiLeaks has published the first batch of nearly 300,000 emails from the Turkish ruling AKP party's internal server and thousands of attached files in response to the Ankara government's widespread post-coup purges. Some 294,548 emails pertaining to Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Justice and Development Party (AKP) were made public on Tuesday at 11:00pm Ankara time. WikiLeaks says that the release of almost 300,000 email bodies together with several thousand attached files, is just part one in the series and encompasses 762 mailboxes beginning with 'A' through to 'I.' All emails are attributed to "akparti.org.tr," the primary domain of the main political force in the country, and cover a period from 2010 up until July 6, 2016, just a week before the failed military coup. The NGO also revealed that one of the emails contained an Excel database of the cell phone numbers of AKP deputies. Prior to the release WikiLeaks suffered a "sustained attack" as it warned that Turkish government entities might try to interfere with the publication of the AKP material. The attacks are still continuing and users are experiencing difficulties in accessing the material. WikiLeaks reassured the public that they are "winning" the battle. A few hours after the release, WikiLeaks tweeted a screenshot showing the database to be blocked in Turkey, claiming that Ankara "ordered [the release] to be blocked nationwide." More than 200 people have died and over 1,400 injured from the attempted coup. Thousands of people have also been detained and/or lost their posts across the judiciary, military, interior ministry and civil service sectors. The Turkish president Erdogan is blaming the U.S.-based cleric Fethullah Gulen for orchestrating the attempted coup.
There are emails showing that the President made this coup happen in order to weed out rebels and to strengthen his power?
Fascism is fascism, even when the fascist got the most votes.
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
Is there anything good in there? All I see is stuff about rejecting Blackberry phones because they're backdoored and Nigerian scammers:
************
We are rejected Blackberry,because your cemaats inteligent persons connected on Blackberry > While we are prefer blackjack,thank you and yours cemaats inteligent persons. > Yours Sincelery... > Cüneyt DLER
**********************
"My Husband Mr Tayeb El Safi was the Minister of Economy and Commerce and also right-hand man to the ex Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and He died along with our former-President Muammar Gaddafi and our properties was destroyed and seized by the new Government, we managed to make our way to nearby country Burkina Faso where we are leaving now under the (UNHCR) my dear seriously I have important secret to reveal to you if you are sincere and willing, Thanking you a lot in anticipation of your quick response. I will give you details in my next mail after receiving your Data information’s, such as your full name, Age and your country and acceptance mail to help me and my children. Have a nice day, while I hope to hear from you soon. please reply me at this E-mail Address: mariatayebelsafi11@ig.com.br Yours sincerely Mrs. Mariam Tayeb. El Safi Hsbc Bank London Uk, the sum of 6.5 Million Pounds and I also have some funds that was deposited in a security company as consignment by my husband here in Burkina Faso so let me know the one that will be easy for you, preferable coming here to retrieve the one that is here about 4.3 Million Dollars"
Despite the fact that this is how it is reported, it's somewhat misleading to call it a coup. While it's extra legal, it's been reported that the Turkish constitution puts military in charge of being the last-ditch effort of dissolving and reforming the government if the government goes too far in making Turkey a non-secular state. Given that the current President of Turkey belongs to the party which officially started out as an Islamist party, but then de jour (albeit not necessarily de facto) abandoned its Islamic direction, it stands to reason that making a decision on whether the ruling party is trying to undermine secular institutions is legitimately the military's judgement call.
It's not a clean solution to having a system of checks and balances to ensure that no one branch of the government can completely dismantle all other branches, but it's also not a blanket attempt at a power grab which is usually associated with a coup.
Certainly, having so many dead an injured over, what amounts to, a political dispute is tragic. But having a secular state descent into a theocracy would almost certainly result in much more losses of life and civic freedoms and, therefore, would be a larger tragedy.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
> So long as Erdogan does as he is told, nothing. So long as he is our bastard, he can do what he wants.
Yeah, just like that guy in Irak...
That RT has become a major source of news that you can't get on most major news channels.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
I don't think Bush listened to Kissinger on Iraq. Or anyone with a lick of sense, for that matter.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So long as Erdogan does as he is told, nothing. So long as he is our bastard, he can do what he wants.
But Erdogan does not doing what he is told. America would like to see Turkey become more democratic, secular, and bound to European institutions, including NATO, and eventually the EU. We would like Turkey to be tolerant of the Turkish Kurds in the south east, and support the Iraqi and Syrian Kurds in the fight against ISIS. Erdogan is doing the opposite of all these things. He is undermining democracy, arresting judges, and rounding up political opponents. He is promoting Islamic law, and imposing Halal restrictions on pork and alcohol onto non-muslims. He is provoking and attacking the Kurds. He was lukewarm in the fight against ISIS until they started setting off bombs in Turkish cities (which he tried to pin on the Kurds).
More likely he did listen to Brzezinski.
Destabilization does have a purpose.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Turkey has turned it's back on Ataturk's dream of a modern secular state, and is destined to become yet another muzzy hell-hole.
Destabilization at that time served to annoy the USSR. There no longer is a USSR to annoy, I can see no reason that destabilizing Iraq was a good idea (and it wasn't Bush's goal, anyway. He thought it would magically become a democratic, free market paradise).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
What has to cement the Turkish Islamic empire the most is the unbridled purification of the court. The media were already restrained (internet, prohibition of AV media, nationalization of newspapers and conglomerates, government control of the news, persecution of journalists and bloggers, intimidation of foreign correspondents). The purpose of this internal putsch was the abolishment of the separation of powers. 542 administrative judges detained 2,204 prosecuted. 48 members of the State Council, two members of the Constitutional Court, 140 members of the Court of Appeal. The Turkish secular state is buried now. More Koranic schools, increasing violence against women and secularists (such as the non-sanctioned attack on Radiohead fans during Ramadan), stop of prosecution for sex with minors and severe punishment for child rapists, the astronomical increase in alcohol prices, the plan to establish alcohol-free zones. The narcissism of Erdogan (for over 2,000 processes for defamation) goes beyond his megalomania (the construction of the expensive White House, the proliferation of mosques, the scornful disregard of the protests in Taksim Square in 2013) which defies imagination. Erdogan has only one goal: to cultivate a godly generation. Say, one country, one people, one leader. Hitler was inspired by Atatürk. Erdogan now is inspired by Hitler. Even with its fifth column in the rest of Europe. But one man benefited from the outlawing of any opposition. That Europe is now cheering "the salvation of democracy" is particularly cowardly. Even with the loaded Turkish army tradition. Chamberlain did this as well in 1938. Europe forgets Erdogan recently glorified the approach of Nazi Germany. That nightmare in Turkey closer than expected.
America has no interest in seeing any country become more democratic, least of all itself. America has been co-opted for the 0.001%, and true democracy stands in the way of the rentier class. NATO isn't democratic, the EU isn't democratic, and of course The Sultan isn't democratic.
Erdogan is being permitted to do whatever the hell he wants, so long as it is NOT democratic. Do not be mistaken.
Turkey should be divided, and it will be eventually, but not for it's own good, nor that of its many tribes and peoples, but for the benefit of the global oligarchy.
Funny - time was, even I would've branded me as a conspirational zealot.
That falls under "or anyone with a lick of sense".
Brzezinski is insane.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I don't think he thought about it.
"Mission Accomplished" was to be a popular wartime President with a war happening on the opposite side of the world to where the voters lived.
Winning or losing was going to be somebody else's problem after his second term.
Funny, I'd completely forgotten that Snowden had also worked for the intelligence services of each of those other countries.
I'd also forgotten that he'd taken over the running of Wikileaks from Assange. Thanks for reminding me, fellow AC!
The "coup" was most likely covertly triggered by Erdogan, to allow him to initiate yet another purge of anyone opposed to him becoming the new Sultan of the Neo-Ottoman empire, as can be seen in his purge of not only teachers, but also judges, university deans, his further clampdowns on media etc.
Snowden has nothing to with WikiLeaks. And if you didn't even know that, I'm going to guess you wouldn't recognize a communist if it came up and gave you ownership of the means of production in the ass.
If you're defense contractor it was a *brilliant* idea.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The "coup" was most likely covertly triggered by Erdogan
While I thought this at first, It would have had to have been quite an engineering feat though without the truth getting out. I saw the coup-backing military shooting protesting civilians in Ankara live on Periscope. It looked pretty real to me. Erdogan would have had to convince a lot of military people that the coup was real.
The most interesting headline is Military crew sent to nab Erdogan told they were after a terrorist.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that even more insane people don't listen to him.
The Iraq was maybe the only REALLY stable state in the whole area. Sure, Saddam was an asshole and he was no longer an US ally (like he was back in the 1980s... oh good ol' times), but he kept the lid on the pot of shit. The Iraq was not only the only state where terrorism could not get a food on the ground (because Saddam was about as much Muslim as the average politician around here is Christian, i.e. at best with a lip service to appease the idiots, but he didn't have to appease idiots, so...). And that country served as a wedge between Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria.
Now we experience what happens when that wedge is removed. We now basically have a war that we can prolong infinitely. As long as we need one, they'll deliver.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Don't need that many to be truly in the know. Remember, he's purged the military before, people who have been found to be too secular, too pro-constitution etc, and replaced with people loyal to him, via his party.
What most likely happened is that those loyal to him discovered that there was a group left who were not happy about Erdogan's policies(which includes supporting ISIS), and then at an opportune time fed false intel, while in the background they prepare their own moves for securing more power, such as preparing to fire most judges in the country, including the 5 in the supreme court of Turkey.
Where do you get the idea from that the US gives a shit about Turkey being democratic? What matters is that the li'l mustache keeps his mouth shut, stays in the NATO and deploys his troops where we want them to, as long as he does that he can round up all judges and Kurds and whatever else he feels like.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You may recall that 9/11 happened before the war in Iraq. Bush ran on a domestic program and war was thrust upon his administration by Bin Laden, al Qaida, and the Taliban.
"Mission Accomplished" referred to the mission performed by the aircraft carrier where that banner was displayed as it was returning home. But if you're just engaging in smear and not trying to further understanding, well then ..... "Mission Accomplished."
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
That's not difficult. Military is used to following orders. And they are usually fed only very selected information. Remember 1968, Prague? The East Bloc soldiers crushing the democratic uprising were told that they're quelling unrest agitated by the West and that the population would welcome them as their saviors.
They were honestly surprised to be welcomed with stones.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Let's take a look at the coup, shall we?
1) We're talking about a military that knows how to stage coups. It's likely that some of the upper level officers have already been in the force when the last one happened. This would have been the 4th coup in Turkey since WW2. In other words, we're not talking about some stage performance military that is at best useful to look pretty when some guest of honor arrives, this is a military that KNOWS how to run a coup successfully (because this is actually the first one that fails).
2) Everyone who has at least a passing interest in military coups knows that you have to get 4 things done: First, arrest or kill the head honcho you're trying to oust, along with his main cronies. Second, get the media under control. Third, get the secret police under control or at least ensure that they cannot act. Fourth, disrupt the coordination of the powers that are loyal to the regime (in this case, the police). NONE OF THESE were taken care of. There was a half-baked "uhhh, we do coup!" message being broadcast (almost as if they wanted to make sure that everyone knows that this is not just for shits and giggles), but nothing else of tactical value was secured.
3) The "coup" was staged in the two main towns. Why? What the hell is the benefit of shooting aimlessly from helicopters into towns where the only thing you can accomplish is to anger the population without gaining any strategic advantage? Controlling the bridges across the Bosporus Strait I can see, but not even that was done right because there were still bridges that were neither closed nor controlled.
4) 2 days after the "coup" thousands of opposing judges, politicians and other people who did not participate in the coup but somehow "annoy" our little tinpot dictator are arrested. This must be the most efficient kind of bureaucracy ever observed that they can in 2 days identify the "culprits" for the coup and already have them arrested.
Bluntly, this was either the most dilettante coup since November 1923 or the biggest lie since September 1939.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"You seem to have omitted a few important details, such as Saddam''s funding and support of terrorism, training terrorists, and providing them refuge in Iraq."
Got any facts on that?
I'm also surprised by the compete lack of interest in the USA regarding the Chilcot report. Is everyone in the US pretending that it has nothing to do with them? Why isn't Bush being grilled over misleading the people of the US and the UK? Blaire may end up in the Hague over this. Will the US just ignore it?
You seem to have omitted a few important details, such as Saddam''s funding and support of terrorism, training terrorists, and providing them refuge in Iraq.
You might want to support this claim with some evidence. I have heard that a few times now but it just doesn't hold much water. Saddam's interest in terrorism has been slim to nil, mostly because he knew VERY well that he's sitting on a powder keg with Sunni and Shiites. The last thing he needed was religion suddenly playing a major role in his country.
Then there is the fact that he kept attacking nations in the region - invaded Iran, invaded and tried to annex Kuwait, attacked Saudi Arabia, attacked Israel. I seem to recall there were "border issues" with some of the other neighbors.
It's not fair to blame Saddam for a war that he waged for the US. That 8 years in the 80s against Iran was backed and paid for by us. The war against Kuwait was on the other hand mostly him being a bit stroppy after getting a "thanks, idiot" from us when presenting his bill for the war. Basically he just wanted to be paid for his service and noticed that it's easier to cash in Kuwait than Iran. He sure was no saint, not by a long shot, but you have to admit, we cut him a raw deal and he just found a way out.
Nor was Iraq particularly stable. There were various rebellions again Saddam, assassination attempts, and various other issues. You may recall that some of these were put down by using chemical weapons against civilian populations.
You see, the Iraq is one of the few Muslim countries that isn't ONLY Sunnite or ONLY Shiite. It's a about 30/70 Sunnite/Shiite. And that fuels a lot of tensions. "Stable" is a relative term in the presence of this mix. His only option was to keep the country as secular as he could so that religious problem wouldn't surface. And that worked for almost half a century. Just take a look at the state the country is in now. Is that more stable than it was under Saddam?
And Saddam wasn't much of an ally. The US didn't want Iran to beat Iraq and threaten the entire region beyond the danger it already posed. Just think how lovely things would be if Iraq had collapsed and Iran leveraged that into controlling not only Iran's oil, but Iraq, and Saudi Arabia's.
Actually yes, Saddam was an ally. Remember 1979? When that Ayatollah kicked out our buddy the Shah and took over his arsenal? We built the Iran up to be the fourth biggest army on the planet, complete with kick-ass technology like the back-then ultra modern F-14 jets, complete with state-of-the-art arms. We sure as FUCK didn't want to go to war against that, that wouldn't have been the cool asymmetric wars that we knew, where we'd mow down rice farmers and towelheads, that would have been more like WW2 where you fight an enemy that has weapons on par with yours. Hell, he even HAS the same weapons you have!
Instead, we hired Saddam to do that for us. And he did. For 8 years he kicked that Ayatollah's butt for us 'til all the modern crap that towelhead had was crushed. No, the US never wanted the Iran to crush Iraq. It was more the other way 'round.
As far as weapons go, Saddam got something like 90% of his weapons from the Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact, China, or other communist bloc states. Most of the rest was from France.
In the end, yes, when the US stopped being interested. That's the problem with the US, they just don't know how to treat an ally. They're not supposed to be used like tools made in China, i.e. used once and tossed away 'cause if we need more we just buy a new one. People don't like being tossed away. They tend to resent that. And sometimes they find new allies and turn against you. But we're talking about Saddam now, not Osama.
We now basically have a war that we can prolong infinitely. As long as we need one, they'll deliver.
So w
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
BTW my American friends:
That link to the Guardian should not be brushed aside as an idle reference. The public inquiry into the Iraq war is as close to a thorough investigation into a modern democratic government as you will ever get. It took from 2009 to 2016 (17 years) to investigate and the report comprises 2.6 million words in 12 volumes. The inquiry had access to the intelligence services, the parliament and all records related to the Iraq invasion. They interviewed anyone they believed to be of interest.
In other words, it's a big deal, and if your local media is not reporting on this for whatever reason, then I advise you to appraise yourself of what it contains and what it's all about.
"1) We're talking about a military that knows how to stage coups. It's likely that some of the upper level officers have already been in the force when the last one happened. This would have been the 4th coup in Turkey since WW2. In other words, we're not talking about some stage performance military that is at best useful to look pretty when some guest of honor arrives, this is a military that KNOWS how to run a coup successfully (because this is actually the first one that fails)."
Here we come to one of the problems with Erdogan and the AKP: Over the last 15 years, he's systematically worked to purge all officers not loyal to him and his party. He especially targeted officers that had been involved in previous coups or were too secular for his liking. So, the experience of how to stage a coup was lost, and the ability to do so further impeded by Erdogan loyalists.
"2) Everyone who has at least a passing interest in military coups knows that you have to get 4 things done: First, arrest or kill the head honcho you're trying to oust, along with his main cronies. Second, get the media under control. Third, get the secret police under control or at least ensure that they cannot act. Fourth, disrupt the coordination of the powers that are loyal to the regime (in this case, the police). NONE OF THESE were taken care of. There was a half-baked "uhhh, we do coup!" message being broadcast (almost as if they wanted to make sure that everyone knows that this is not just for shits and giggles), but nothing else of tactical value was secured."
This is where things really get into False Flag territory. What better way to further cement your power than sacrificing the lives of some of your loyal fanatics, sanctifying your rise to power with the blood of martyrs. Also, if it had been a serious military coup, they'd have quietly closed down multiple mosques to hamper the ability for Erdogan's loyal imams to rabble rouse.
"3) The "coup" was staged in the two main towns. Why? What the hell is the benefit of shooting aimlessly from helicopters into towns where the only thing you can accomplish is to anger the population without gaining any strategic advantage? Controlling the bridges across the Bosporus Strait I can see, but not even that was done right because there were still bridges that were neither closed nor controlled."
Further shows that it was not a true coup. If it had been a true coup, Erdogan would have been taken out by a special forces team where he was on his vacation, or possibly by a bomb, and indeed aimed at unifying the rage of the populace against a single target.
"4) 2 days after the "coup" thousands of opposing judges, politicians and other people who did not participate in the coup but somehow "annoy" our little tinpot dictator are arrested. This must be the most efficient kind of bureaucracy ever observed that they can in 2 days identify the "culprits" for the coup and already have them arrested."
Judges, academics, teachers etc are the primary threat against Erdogan through upholding secular values and knowledge, secular laws, and opposes orthodox islamic values and sharia.
I don't think Erdogan engineered the coup attempt. But, I think he's still paranoid enough about the *possibility* of a coup that he has significant monitoring of the officer corps (whether eavesdropping, informants, etc) and he was able to figure out that it was going to happen.
So like some kind of a police sting, he figured it was best to let them proceed as much as possible and then pull the plug just after it got started. This would give him more justification to further purge the officer corps of disloyalty.
I think this also demonstrates that Erdogan's earlier purges of the officer corps and trumped up charges against retired officers was successful. It's more likely that had the military retained its historic leadership structure and attendant loyalties still been in place, a coup might have actually worked.
Of course the worry now is that he has decimated military leadership and the military will suffer from lack of experience and/or competence because all the important slots are held by Erdogan yes-men.
To me, the worry ins't that Erdogan is like Putin, it's that he's like Assad of Syria.
Some rumours say that a lot of the soldiers were conscripts thinking this was all a military exercise. Hand them rifles loaded with blanks, and plant a handful of agitators with live rounds amongst them. That might also explain the incredible ease with which some of these military units surrendered; real insurgents might be a bit more motivated to avoid arrest. And if a lot of these soldiers took part in this unwittingly, it'll be dead easy to convince them to plead guilty in exchange for clemency.
There's still no proof of a real coup or a staged one, and I doubt we'll ever see it. But I am still very sceptical. That headline you mention is another red flag: would real insurgents entrust a mission of that importance to a crew not in the know, being told only at the last minute they were going after Erdogan? Seems terribly risky. On the other hand, if you're staging a coup and you need some military action without cluing in a lot of people, this is exactly what I'd tell them.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
If this was staged coup, it was a very well designed one: relatively small scale and little damage, but highly visible (lots of "cool effects"), maximum incitement of the population, but controlled to not escalate into an actual coup. Also note how control of "the media" (well, TRT) changed hands precisely at the right times to widely announce the coup, then declare its failure, while throughout the entire proceedings the prime minister was able to spread the message: "we're still here!"
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
It would have had to have been quite an engineering feat though without the truth getting out.
You don't need truth when a large number of people suspect it already. There's enough evidence to suggest this was a likely outcome, and people believe the evidence enough that "truth getting out" makes no difference at this point. People are already politically divided on the topic. If someone leaked the truth the supporting people would say "I knew it", and the opposing people would label them as "just another instrument of the coup"
>You seem to have omitted a few important details, such as Saddam''s funding and support of terrorism, training terrorists, and providing them refuge in Iraq.
I dunno - there seems to be a hell of a lot more "terrorism" in the world today with Saddam long dead than there ever was before. Barring 9/11 for actual death count, but that was the Saudis not Saddam.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
>Got any facts on that?
He left the facts right next to the evidence on all the Weapons of Mass Destruction....
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Destabilization at that time served to annoy the USSR. There no longer is a USSR to annoy,
Well, the US will still happily annoy Russia at any possible occasion.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
>as long as turky moves American OIL up from South Sudan, through ISIS protected territory into Europe to fuck the Russians, they can do whatever they want. What the actual fuck? Get a map.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I think he partially engineered it, by feeding it false intelligence, conflicting signals etc, and moving his own assets around to capitalize on it when triggered.
You seem to have a selective memory yourself. Al Qaeda started its war against the US under the Bush the First administration.
FTFY. Oh, and its roots were funded with money from the Ford administration.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
The war against PKK is not the war on Kurds, most of the PKK terrorist caught or killed have cross arpund their neck. Suggesting that the PKK is the same group created by the UK, that wanted to destabilize Iran after the the supporters of Ayatollah had overtrown their king. It was purely because Iran took back their natural resources from the UK that their had to deal with terrorism. The same is happening in the south east of Turkey. It's a big pie and everyone want the biggest piece. Ät has nothing to do with turks and kurs or whatsoever, 85 ethic groups live in Turkey. But only the kurds say "I am kurdish"... Read some very critical books my friend and stop repeating lies! I am from Qarabag, annexated territory by the Armenians. Stop this bullshit, please...
Aren't you tired to rehash old Chomsky bullshit that was d too many debunked too many times to count?
Just wondering.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
"You seem to have omitted a few important details, such as Saddam''s funding and support of terrorism, training terrorists, and providing them refuge in Iraq."
Got any facts on that?
Well, most of the People's Mujahedin of Iran (left-wing Iranian nationalist opposition group) took refuge in Iraq, and were considered a terrorist organisation and specifically mentioned by W. Bush as a reason for a the invasion, until, well, right after Saddam's fall.
I kid, the State Department still considered them terrorists until 2012, however the U.S. Joint Special Operations Command had trained MEK operatives at a secret site in Nevada from 2005 to 2009 (up until President Barack Obama took office).
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I have no doubt NATO is losing Turkey to Islamic control. We saw this coming as Turkey was reluctant to engage ISIS even at its own boarder. Turkey has been a solid member of NATO since WW2. It will be another terrible loss of logistic power in the region if the US and NATO lose bases in Turkey. It will mean any military air operations will have to be launched from bases or carriers further away. Sadly Clinton or Obama has not even addressed the significance of this because both are to blame for allowing this.
It is a disgrace that this country remains a NATO member and has candidature for the EU. Not that those two organisations are a shining light of moral rectitude but regardless....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
Just the facts checker here, you cant use blanks on rifle without a blank adapter. Unless the conscript are truly clueless, that does not fly.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Blank adapters are in no way necessary to fire a blank. The mechanics of the rifle (firing pin, primer, etc) all have NOTHING to do with the blank adapter. What you will run into problems with is trying to fire semi-automatic with blanks, without a blank adapter, because the purpose of the blank adapter is to ensure that enough gas pressure exists to operate that mechanism.
To explain another way, the reason an M-16/AR-15/etc can fire in semi-automatic (or burst, or fully automatic) mode is because part of the expanding gases from the round being fired are pushed back through a tube, and reset the firing mechanism. Without a bullet in front of them, the gas pressure heading back wouldn't be enough to reset the firing mechanism. This is what the blank adapter is for - to delay/retard the release of the propellant gases from the muzzle enough that sufficient force goes back to reset the firing mechanism. Without it, you can easily fire, but you'll have to manually chamber the next round and re-cock the firing mechanism, etc.
A better argument is that soldiers would know they're loading blanks, and would likely ask why they're not using blank adapters - but then again, maybe the fact that they're conscripts is why? Their NCOs still ought to know better, even in that case.
300k emails is just the size of my 'Junk mail' folder...
Turkish delight on a moonlit night?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
>Got any facts on that?
He left the facts right next to the evidence on all the Weapons of Mass Destruction....
Well, there's this, for starters: "...multiple independent and bipartisan reports before and after the war have established beyond any doubt that Hussein was deeply enmeshed with terrorist activity from the time he took power in the late 1970s until the eve of his last war." Of course, you have to consider that the Washington Post may be stretching the truth a bit, if you think they may have an agenda here.
The Twitter guy?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Since it's a pretty big wall of text that I wrote there, you might want to point to what has been debunked, please? Preferably with a source for the debunking.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, the US will still happily annoy Russia at any possible occasion.
Not really, although I can see why Russians might think that.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Democracy is not a sustainable regime. All administrations, regardless of the type of governing body, need money to operate. They collect money in the name of taxes from people but you can only squeeze the poor folk so far. Then you start going after the money of corporate entities. And regardless if you have the guns or not, they are not going to give it to you, no questions asked. If they give you, the government, money, they will look at it as an investment and will expect return on that investment. Otherwise, you will not get any more money. Here is where your democratic government, goes into the oligarchy mode. Does it sound similar ? Maybe here at home, in the US ? Which politician did you see in your lifetime and maybe in the lifetime of your parents, who did not cow-tow to the interest of big donor corporations, rather than the will of the people who supposedly elected them? Same thing is happening in Turkiye right now. There is a relatively big mass of educated people, who do not want to see their country go to hell in a handbasket. Mind you, Republic of Turkiye is younger than 100 years. There still are some people alive, who fought the liberation wars. The indoctrination of Ataturk, who was the biggest proponent of real democracy, not the theatre we see today, is still alive with this educated mass of people. In the name of globalization, nationalism is a big obstacle. Hence should be eradicated, according to the oligarchs. You can silence a minority of 1-2% of people, but when half or close to the half of a country becomes aware of what you are trying to do, it is hard to suppress that many people silently. What do you do then ? Orchestrate a coup against yourself, quash it, blame the thought leaders and anyone who might be in your way in the future for the failed coup. Then perform kangaroo courts to find them guilty and jail/kill them. At this point people will be afraid of speaking up their minds, with the fear of getting prosecuted. Meanwhile, the undereducated mass which brought Tayyip and his "Ak Parti" to the power, can be manipulated in some other way to weaken their support system of Islamic roots, probably divided into factions and pitted against one another. This is the fate of any country in the Middle East and vicinity. And it is spreading.
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The more I know people, the more I love animals
Don't over-estimate Tayyip Erdogan.He is by no means an oligarch. He is a peon in the game, who will be sacrificed when his time comes. And that time is very close.
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The more I know people, the more I love animals
Where do you get the idea from that the US gives a shit about Turkey being democratic? What matters is that the li'l mustache keeps his mouth shut, stays in the NATO and deploys his troops where we want them to, as long as he does that he can round up all judges and Kurds and whatever else he feels like.
Well said. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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The more I know people, the more I love animals
Good lord, do I really have to become a history teacher now? Pretty much everything therein is easily available, if you're lazy try wikipedia.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I glanced at the story, saw "Erdogan" and "Gulen," and thought there was a new Lord of the Ring movie on the way.
You may recall that 9/11 happened before the war in Iraq. Bush ran on a domestic program and war was thrust upon his administration by Bin Laden, al Qaida, and the Taliban.
I'll forgive Bush for Afghanistan, but Iraq was his choice.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
There no longer is a USSR to annoy
Tell that to the Europeans :-) That's the thing, North America is entirely removed from their very real security concerns, energy, food, invasion. Before WW2, going back to ancient times the continent has always been at war. The feudal (nationalist) idealism still lingers to this day. We have our nice big oceans to protect us. You know what they say about bliss... And the sociopathy of the leaders is also very real. Whether they like it or not, they do depend on us to tamp it down a bit. That's why the Balkan wars didn't spread this time. And the Russians will never get past Ukraine again, if we don't drop our drawers. While Russia's economy remains a bit tattered, the NATO buildup on the Eastern Front is quite logical and even reasonable. And an unstable middle east serves our purpose of making sure the Russia doesn't get fat off the things we no longer need. And of course there is the elephant in the room, Hillary's legacy. You don't argue against that.
Contrary to popular opinion, both invasions of Iraq have really been at the UK's request. I obviously don't agree with them, but I do understand the reasons. The second one was a true "wag the dog" moment. Look into Blair's affair with Wendy Deng. Murdoch got his war. Yes, they do kill people to cover this kind of stuff up. Sociopathy is a dominant trait. It has to be when you make the decision to go to war. Theresa May answered the *big question* with a simple "yes" (I'll let you Google that), which, to tell the truth, is better than Corbyn's answer of total disarmament.
There are mad times.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Whose incompetence? There were a number of terrorist attacks over the period from 1976 (Carter Administration) through the 1990s (Clinton Administration). Clinton had the opportunity to take out Bin Laden at least once, perhaps twice, but chose not to because we didn't have a 'smoking gun' sufficient to justify - that's an arguable case. 9/11 planning by Bin Laden began in at least 1999, perhaps 1998 - I don't recall. So if you're saying it was Bush incompetence, you're just uninformed. The fact is that Bin Laden (who was a big part of the "Mujahadeen" that we financed to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1970s) dedicated his life to killing infidels at that time if not before.
Afghanistan was not such a bad place prior to the Soviet invasion and removal of the king (not necessarily in that order). I have friends and relatives who worked there and visited there in the early 1970s. But the Russians have wanted a direct route to a warm water port for centuries, and have tried various methods multiple times including overthrowing governments. See also the "Great Game" of the 1800s between Russia, Britain, and China mostly.
It's quite reasonable actually to go back much farther, to the Jefferson Administration, in 1801-1809. See the Tripolitan War or Barbary Coast War, 1801-1815. US merchant shipping in the Mediterranean was being hampered by pirates out of Tripoli (present day Libya), who were seizing the ships and holding the crews and passengers for ransom. For several years the US (like several European nations) was forced to pay as much as $1 million per year to protect our fleets. When the US Ambassador went to Tripoli to negotiate, and find out why they kept attacking, the sultan or whatever said, "Holy Kuran tells us to kill all infidels. The fact that we don't kill your people but only hold them for ransom is merely a sign of our exceeding mercy." This was the motivation for Jefferson to build up the Navy, I think create the Marines but I'm not sure about that, and go to war. This is the basis for the latter part of a line in the Marine Hymn, "From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli."
IOW, the western European and American nations have been dealing with murderous thugs from those areas since the birth of this country.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
You may recall that 9/11 happened before the war in Iraq. Bush ran on a domestic program and war was thrust upon his administration by Bin Laden, al Qaida, and the Taliban.
9/11 and Afghanistan were thrust upon the administration. Even the benefit of hindsight doesn't give us much choice there. Iraq was the war that Bush really -wanted- to fight, and chose to fight.
"Mission Accomplished" referred to the mission performed by the aircraft carrier where that banner was displayed as it was returning home.
BS. Mission Accomplished referred to the end of the military operation in Iraq. It's kindof why George Bush piloted his own fighter jet onto the carrier -- not to celebrate one carrier's job being done.
No, it is not insane at all. In fact, it is most logical, and it worked. As long as we keep it up, Russia will never be a real threat. That is something I'm sure the Europeans can appreciate. Whether they do or not, is another story.
The UK's new Prime Minister will protect us!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
*7 years...of course. Oops!
...from 2009 to 2016 (17 years)...
That's actually "only" 7 years. The war being investigated started 13 years ago.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Don't need that many to be truly in the know. Remember, he's purged the military before, people who have been found to be too secular, too pro-constitution etc, and replaced with people loyal to him, via his party.
But given the Turkish military's history of coups whenever a leader tries to do what Erdogan does, I don't think he needed to try to orchestrate one -- a situation that could have easily backfired as it might have succeeded. If he knew one was coming anyway, all he had to do was be ready for it.
Iraq should have been his choice but I think he was led by the nose by others instead of attempting to do his job as President.
I'll forgive Bush for Afghanistan
I'm sorry to hear that. Afghanistan is an opium war.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
That could be, but it seems like something he wanted to do before getting elected.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Nobody said that there was not earlier incompetence.
If we are going to go back as far as Carter his inability to put the blame on others and his decision to let the former Shah of Iran into the country, resulting in a huge ongoing shitstorm that lost him the Presidency, showed he could not play the political game as slickly as an accomplished actor like Reagan.
Are you implying Kissinger has a lick of sense?
No, but he does.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
None other