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CERN Confirms Hints of Hypothetical Particle Have Disappeared (arstechnica.com)
John Timmer, writing for Ars Technica: Toward the end of last year, the people behind the Large Hadron Collider announced that they might have found signs of a new particle. Their evidence came from an analysis of the first high-energy data obtained after the LHC's two general-purpose detectors underwent an extensive upgrade. While the possible new particle didn't produce a signal that reached statistical significance, it did show up in both detectors, raising the hope that the LHC was finally on to some new physics. This week, those hopes have officially been dashed. Physicists used a conference to release their analysis of the flood of data that came out of this year's run. According to their data, the area of the apparent signal is filled by nothing but statistical noise. The search for new particles in data from the LHC starts with a calculation of the sorts of things we should expect to see at a given energy. The Standard Model, which describes particles and forces, can be used to make predictions of the frequency at which specific particles will pop out of collisions, as well as what those particles will decay into. So, for example, the Standard Model might indicate that two electrons should appear in five percent of the collisions that occur at a specific energy. Looking for new particles involves looking for deviations from those predictions.
You're right. And conveniently nobody has ever seen your brain before, so that can only mean one thing.
they are hiding it...Sorry, just finished The Dark Forrest.
The LHC exists for an evil purpose and must be stopped before Satan and his demons are released back into the world to torment mankind.
You're too late you fool; Hillary already won the nomination, so the LHC's mission is already complete.
I'm not trolling - my question is sincere. If CERN never discovers new particles, does it still add value scientifically? For example, pinning down what we do know with greater precision? Or is the only value in discovering something entirely new?
Better known as 318230.
#1: The Case Against Algebra
Okay, algebra, math, CERN, tenuous but I'll give it a pass. Throw in "the case against" and "rethinking our earlier observations at CERN" and it's a definite maybe.
#2: Bill Nye: Climate Change Denial Is 'Running Out of Steam,' Thanks To Millennials
The "we/they were wrong" angle is much weaker here, weak fail.
#3: Neil deGrasse Tyson Says It's 'Very Likely' The Universe Is A Simulation
Er, no. Fail.
#4: Utah Governor: 'Porn Is a Public Health Crisis'
Er, other than "scientific data is as exciting to me as porn is to some politicians" and "CERN gets public funds and the word 'public' is in the title" I'm just not seeing it. Either you fail outright or fail for being too subtle with the "I-love-science/politicos-get-off-on-porn" angle.
#5: Study Finds 3 Laws Could Reduce Firearm Deaths By 90%
Er, um, no. Yes, I know bullets go at high velocities (but not THAT high!) and it's the impact they make when they hit the target that counts, but no. Fail.
Maybe Slashdot's next related-links AI will outperform its existing AI.
By the way, anyone know what's up with the "sdsrc=popbyskidbtmprev" at the end of the "related suggestion" links?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Have they checked the couch, really really carefully? A lot of times when I can't find something, it ends up being under one of the couch cushions. It probably fell out of their pocke when they were watching TV.
And then sometimes when I can't find something in the house, it'll turn out I left it in the car - usually right there on the front passenger seat. Maybe they were busy bringing in groceries and forgot they had the particle in the car.
#DeleteChrome
No, but seriously. Dark matter, dark energy (with the "dark" meaning that we somehow know it has to be there but we simply cannot find a way to detect it)... it could well mean that we're simply looking in the wrong direction.
I mean, think of Vulcan. The planet. No, not Star Trek. The hypothetical planet that we thought has to be inside the orbit of Mercury because something influenced Mercury's orbit. Something had to be there that caused Mercury to not orbit the sun the way it should. Today we know that relativity caused the error, but a hundred years ago, we didn't know this and the only logical thing we could think of was of course what we observed in the past: Errors in the orbits of planets led before to the discovery of other planets that influenced it, that way we found Neptune (and afaik Uranus was also found mostly because we noticed that Saturn isn't quite moving as it "should"). So the logical conclusion was that of course there had to be another planet inside the orbit of Mercury and the only reason we couldn't see it is of course that the sun is too close that we could detect it.
Turned out that we were wrong.
And, well, we've been looking really hard for that dark matter/energy now and ... well, nothing. Not even a hint that there might and could be something. Maybe we should at least start looking in other directions?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ok, go ahead and pray. Preferably all day. That way you'll at least not get into the way of anyone doing something useful.
Just ... please kneel somewhere out of the way if possible.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Maybe we should at least start looking in other directions?
We've been looking in a multitude of different directions. There are whole research groups at universities dedicated to alternative gravity ideas, for example. So far, they've come up even less, as such theories involve some combination of being unable to match actual data, arbitrarily specific to only certain cases, or requiring a lot of arbitrary fitting of parameters lacking any known physical basis. The problem is that looking in a lot of directions isn't a magic bullet, as you could still be missing the actual idea needed, or you might have the correct idea already and it turns out more difficult to measure than thought.
A fan of Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot"! Good luck with that!
People HAVE seen mine, I must be the most intelligent person around here.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Have you seen the size of her ass? That aint no lie son.
you think the moon landings were a hoax
I met my first real "moon landing was a hoax" guy not long ago and it blew my mind. This guy was by all accounts a normal person, but that little part of his brain where rationality gets suspended had metastasized into full-blown disbelief and there was NO way to convince this clod that the Moon landings really happened.
Explaining to him about the laser reflector left on the Moon that he himself could hit from his own backyard with a couple grand in off-the-shelf laser gear didn't do it. Photos didn't do it (of course). Nothing would convince him, nothing. And this is a guy who flies on airplanes and uses advanced medical technology and talks on cellphones, use GPS to go places, etc etc etc.
Some people are just plain stupid.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Correct, and the reason they spent billions of dollars to find GP's brain and never did was because his brain was on the mushrooms the whole time. You see, there's no missing piece of the puzzle, just a found one that nobody understands. Just because money doesn't solve that doesn't mean the premise is bad.
As a sceptic about the value of CERN, my problem is that it feels like there's little of long term value likely to be found by it, compared with what the same expenditure could achieve in other scientific fields that are far less well financed. It's 'sexy' to be looking at the origins of the universe and ever more fundamental particles but...
This "science" you speak of sounds just like religion. Perhaps dark matter is God? They have some similarities, like you can't show me some if asked.
By the way, anyone know what's up with the "sdsrc=popbyskidbtmprev" at the end of the "related suggestion" links?
I would guess that the "sdsrc" is a key that stands for "slashdot source" and the "popbyskidbtmprev" is a code that indicates the clicked link came form the "related stories" list.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Prior to the Mercury controversy, Uranus was found to be moving in ways not described by Newton's theory of gravity. Again, there are two solutions: our description of gravity is wrong, or there is an unseen ("dark") mass pulling on Uranus. In this case, it was dark matter, namely the undiscovered Neptune.
Both modified gravity and dark matter have been solutions to past conflicts between theory and measurement. There's no need to assume there's some conspiracy suppressing this or that idea.
Also, sometimes it takes a long time between a theoretical proposal to explain a mystery and direct detection. The neutrino was hypothesized in 1930 in order to conserve energy and momentum in beta nuclear decays. It wasn't directly detected until 12 years later in 1942. It took 49 years between the first papers proposing the existence of the Higgs boson and its discovery at the LHC. All we can do is search everywhere and be patient.
Still much less than the space program or a couple of buildings in a large city. Less than hosting the Olympic games.
Achille Talon
Hop!
I well know my ignorance in physics and astronomy, so I don't put too much stock in my own opinions, and neither should others. Still... The current speculation on dark matter remind me greatly of the incredibly complex equations and calculations some ancient scientists and mathematicians invented to explain orbital mechanics of a geocentric universe, with the earth as the center of the celestial heavens... and they almost got everything worked out that way. It wasn't until the heliocentric model was established that the underlying laws fell into place, showing that orbital mechanics follow much simpler and more elegant laws.
It always felt to me that dark matter and energy were essentially a placeholder that admitted "our calculations are this far off, and we don't have a clue why." So many things in our universe seem to have such elegant laws to explain them once we understand enough. I hope this discrepancy is found and explained in my lifetime, as it would be fascinating to hear what the actual explanation for these "holes" are in the current best-of-breed theoretical models lie.
Oh, more on topic... in terms of *not* finding a particle when you look for one. The absence of data is also interesting to scientists, just not quite as sexy. It fills in our knowledge of the universe in the same way that a failed invention does - by showing what doesn't work, we take one more step towards discovering an invention that does.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
How can any dashslot reader still post retarded nonsense like this?
I tried not to respond to recent "duh dark matter obviously isn't a thing" posts, but Christmas Jesus humping a granite yarmulke, this idiocy has to stop.
Meta moderators take note, this ignorance will be troll or overrated. And this is why: Fundamental misunderstanding, or intentional ignorance deserves no consideration. Argue about what it is, what it means.. but don't argue that it doesn't exist, unless you have a NObel quality replacement. Until then, do your arguing in peer reviewed journals.
Well just think about it: Gravity alone doesn't explain why galaxies, stars, and planets form. Gravity is a very weak force, and it's just too weak of a force for that to happen. A nebula would just forever remain a nebula if all it had was gravity. There's more going on here, we're just not sure what.
The religious take on it is a straight up answer of "Because god did it." The scientific take on it is "If we take existing mathematical models of physics, it looks like the missing variable could be explained by a form of matter different from the normal matter that we can observe. We don't know what it is though so we'll just call it dark matter."
Right now, CERN is the only working elevator in a nearly half-century old building that was built on shaky ground by architects who freely acknowledge the many failures of their design. Some of the current tenants think building a skywalk to connect the building to the even older, more dilapidated building next door will somehow fix both failing structures. Unfortunately for CERN, many tenants in the building are not reupping their lease at this point, and are looking for new digs elsewhere, though many acknowledge how much fun the elevator was. At some point the remaining tenants are going to realize that no matter how many stops this elevator makes, it will never leave the building, and it will never reveal anything other than empty corridors and closed doors.
Yea. We're finding *lots* of particles over here. They all say that, um, you're right. They were there the whole time but you didn't look, um, small enough. We're going to continue looking for ways to determine how *right* you are. No need to stop by.
you're clueless
None of the widely acknowedged unknown questions in physics means the "ground is shaky". Just that better models and experiments to verify them are needed and that is what is being done. Even experiments to look at "unpopular alternatives" are funded and done, such as for "fifth force", quantization of space, antigravity by antimatter, etc.
General Relativity and quantum mechanics are the two most useful models of reality we have, and various means are being explored to either unify them or prove which dominates at smallest scale. That is not a failing of anything, physicists are not ignoring the issue, there are experiments in progress and many alternative theories being made
learn a bit about a field before criticizing it it total ignorance. you know almost nothing
Argue about what it is, what it means.. but don't argue that it doesn't exist, unless you have a NObel quality replacement.
I totally agree. Dark matter and dark energy are just placeholder names we use to describe things that have observable effects, but which we don't understand. There's something holding galaxies together, and there's something accelerating the expansion of space.
It's not unreasonable to presume that "some kind of matter we can't see" accounts for the extra gravity holding galaxies together, since the presence of matter causes gravity.
It's also not unreasonable to presume that "some kind of energy we can't see" is responsible for accelerating the expansion of space, since energy is required for things to accelerate.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
Maps of the distribution of dark matter have been produced using weak gravitational lensing, e.g. in the COSMOS survey.
http://www.spacetelescope.org/news/heic0701/
http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~rjm/cosmos/
http://www.space.com/14176-dark-matter-biggest-map-unveiled.html
And, well, we've been looking really hard for that dark matter/energy now and ... well, nothing. Not even a hint that there might and could be something. Maybe we should at least start looking in other directions?
Dude. You're about 30 or 40 years too late. All the other places are where they looked first. Just more stars we can't see. More non-luminous matter such as Jupiters scattered around to make up the mass. A modified theory of gravitation. Neutrinos flying around the universe. All the logical stuff that would be equivilent to another planet inside Mercury's orbit was looked at first and has been disproven. The idea of dark matter that only interacts via gravity is the other direction and currently the one that best fits the evidence. It still could be something else, but if it is, its going to be a lot weirder than matter that only interacts via gravity.
Dark matter is a very simple theory. There's stuff that has mass that interacts in very limited ways, if at all, electromagnetically. No complicated calculations required. It explains assorted anomalies in gravitational lensing, galactic rotation speed curves, and matches up with some theory on the mass composition of the Universe. You could call it a place holder, in the sense that we don't know much of anything other than that it's matter and it's dark, but those are some important properties.
It's not like the idea is preposterous. Neutrinos have mass and don't interact electromagnetically, so dark matter could be related to neutrinos (hence the Weakly Interacting Massive Particle theory, "weakly" here referring to the weak nuclear force).
I have no idea why people seem to think dark matter is so unlikely.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Heliocentricity didn't fix everything. Heliocentricity combined with elliptical orbits (thank you, Kepler!) did.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You are confused, models of reality are *useful* or they are not. QM and GR are very useful under most conditions in this universe, and a better model might have both as limits of conditions that apply to the majority of the universe
That is because you are outright denying the influence of other forces, which are far stronger than gravity, like magnetism. Also electricity and magnetism have been experimentally proven to be capable of all the things attributed to dark matter.
The scientists that are still clinging to the standard gravitational model are no better than creationists.
no balls, nothing to your name, etc. which is why you troll unidentifiably - you're a zero.
Hmm, are you describing yourself? As that description fits you perfectly.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Wow, you are hilarious. As I have said numerous times before, I don't post AC.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
LOL, and I am sure you have a huge cock too, and have supermodels hitting on you all the time.
Grow up little man, your contributions weren't that great, and frankly, they were all plagiarized. As computers is a field that never stops moving forward, it is pretty sad that all you can do is look back at prior contributions you stole from other people's work. I hope one day you are able to come to terms with the waste that is your life.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Why do you think that was me? What in the content looks like what I would say, and if I were to be saying it, why wouldn't I use my own registered account?
Should we add paranoia to the list of possible conditions you have?
I don't post AC, I see no reason to hide behind AC, I post as Coren22, and nothing else.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
APK, I have done so much more than you, it just makes you look pathetic. Just because I won't rise to the bait of telling you who I am, doesn't mean I have done nothing. I have no desire to be harassed by a psychopath like you, so no, I will not rise to your bait and reveal my identity.
Also, I most definitely have proven you wrong repeatedly, you even agreed to it once by removing one of you points about what makes hosts so awesome (LOL!).
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
No one needs to impersonate you to make a fool out of you APK, so quit your idiotic third party posting. I don't post AC, as I never have needed to in order to make a fool out of you.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Do you perhaps have reading issues? Perhaps you should try rereading the comment you are replying to, after all, every one of your answers is there.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Cat got your eye APK? I'll answer again. NO. I will not give you the information that you don't need, and that you will only use for harassment. You already call me a mental defective...which I find HILARIOUS, because by your definition, everyone in the world is mentally defective.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
So, now you are resorting to acting like you are me APK? That is truly pathetic. Since I have repeatedly said I don't post as AC, it should be pretty obvious I wouldn't post AC and claim to be me. Poor pathetic APK, can't stand someone pointing out his flaws.
Good luck on the witch hunt, since I won't out myself, you will just have to try and try and try to figure out who I am.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
So, since you think 100% of humans are mentally defective in some way, you must think you are mentally defective as well.
You seem to be misunderstanding what Asperger's Syndrome is if you think it is a mental defect, everything I have read has indicated that the lack of social skills is more than offset by higher intelligence. But I guess since you seem to think you are an expert in everything, you must know more than me about it.
I expect you to post a link to a picture of your medical or psychiatric degree next, since you expect everyone else to prove themselves to even offer comments on a public comment board.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
See, the thing about intelligence, is it means people can think ahead. I think ahead to when you figure out who I am, and see you pulling a gun on me because I won't back down, and because I dared to prove you wrong. I am smart enough to not desire people like you knowing who I am, which is why I don't offer up my work for you to see.
Since it doesn't matter one iota how much of an expert I am in the subject, your continued interest in my qualifications can only mean that you have murder on the mind.
As far as putting words in other's mouth, you are the one that tied Aspergers to being mentally defective. As 100% of humans have conditions showing in the DSM, you are essentially calling everyone a mental defective. I don't need to put any words in your mouth, I just used what you said, which leads directly, through logic, to you thinking everyone is a mental defect. As mental defect isn't a condition I have ever heard described in the DSM, I can only assume that you think it is a slur of some sort, though inaccurate.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Except, I have never impersonated you. Why do you assume that people posting as AC acting like you MUST be me?
You pointed it out, however I have seen no others point out anything of the type. Funny that you would confuse a signed message of your own trying to claim I made a post as you, and one of your third party posts.
I don't need to prove a damn thing to you. I will not out myself to a psychopath.
Funny how you get all caught up in your own logical inconsistencies, and somehow think you have outsmarted me. Perhaps if you went back to school and learned some formal logic we might be able to have an actual discussion.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I am not in Baltimore. Perhaps you should reread the post you pulled that information from.
I will not out myself to a psychopath, I don't need to prove anything. You are the one asking for proof of every little thing, it won't happen, so get over it.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
You are funny.
I am making a point, what you have said does not contradict my point. APK hasn't yet destroyed me, so I can only assume you are APK as well, since he is the only one who ever thinks he destroys me.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Uh huh. So then why do you feel he has destroyed me? He has yet to actually make a point against anything.
Funny that you think it makes me mentally disturbed though, as it is exactly the same behavior that APK did in accusing me of posting as an AC acting like him. So, you believe APK is mentally disturbed?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
More attacks, no responses to the actual criticism, and exactly the same style. Yup, another APK troll.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
You poor dear, you had to go back a month ago to find somewhere that I lost my temper with your act and insulted you, you poor poor dear.
If you can't handle being insulted, perhaps you should stop participating in the open internet. I hear there are some great kiddie areas of the Internet where people can't insult you.
APK, you attack constantly, if you can't take it back, it just shows that you don't belong here. Who is it that constantly calls me a mental defective? Who constantly insults my experience (which you know nothing about)? Get over yourself, you have yet to prove me wrong, so instead you resort to name calling and insults, as if it will harm me in some way.
You couldn't destroy a piece of paper while standing in a forest fire...yet you constantly act like you have trapped me or proven me wrong, when you still have yet to respond to any of the points I made. Good luck with that.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
You can't handle the truth!
God, grow up little one, you haven't exposed a damn thing, and your constant attacks just prove you don't even have the capacity to. Just like this post, you can't even comprehend what I write, so you flip out and claim you have won yet again...despite not winning anything!
I hide behind a fake name, but at least I stand behind my name, you post as AC and act like third parties. You have no accountability to what you post, and you use other's posting history as some kind of attack against them, with the full knowledge that you are hiding from equivalent criticism. Until you create an account and use it, you have no position to criticise my use of a pseudonym; you just hide behind AC posts, which is far worse in the grand scheme.
Also, you know that I have good karma because I have constructive things to add to the community, while if you created an account you would quite quickly EARN negative karma because you love to shitpost and troll, while most times posting off topic. You are your own problem, not me.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
So that means APK is losing right? Since he posts like 10 times to every one of my replies...cool, thanks for the update.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
You are so funny.
Yeah, I work at Burger King (which is how it is spelled and formatted), that's why I know more about computer networks than you apparently, and why I have been able to show you why your solution is terrible? I must be a severely overqualified fry cook.
At least I can type...and properly use a computer.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
So, how do you get around the massive performance hit of using hosts files vs DNS? When do you plan on shifting over to DNS...the 33 year old technology that was designed to replace hosts files? You know, the technology that uses intelligent branching tree algorithms instead of parsing the whole hosts file?
Perhaps you should really try to fix your shit before bitching about how bad I am at technology. You seem to think that shouting me down will suddenly make DNS never have been invented to fix the issues with the hosts file. Your only solution is to add a favorites section to the hosts file, which doesn't deal with dynamic addresses, and doesn't solve the massive issues your hosts file will cause to a Active Directory domain joined computer.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
So in other words, rather than answer the question, you choose to go on a wild tangent? Good to see you can stay on subject.
Why would you be comparing hosts to a dnscache in the local OS? That isn't DNS, it is caching used for reducing lookups to the DNS server.
You also can't compare the "mass" of web pages, as they would be IDENTICAL. Adblock also removes ads, but I was specifically speaking to a DNS server with the same entries, which would therefore have the exact same web page loading "mass".
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?