Slashdot Mirror


This Is What the World's Spies Used Instead of MSN Messenger (vice.com)

An anonymous reader writes: What do spies use to chat online? A terribly ugly Windows programme. At least, that's what the Five Eyes intelligence alliance (made up of the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada) was using back in 2003, according to a newly released Snowden document. "The Five-Eyes SIGINT [signals intelligence] Directors will soon be using a new tool to enhance their collaboration on subjects ranging from current intelligence objectives to future collection planning," reads an issue of SID Today, the NSA's internal newsletter, dating from September 2003. InfoWorkSpace (IWS), as the tool is called, allowed text chat, audio conferencing, shared screen views, and virtual whiteboards, the newsletter explains. It adds that, at the time, some 4,000 NSA and Five Eyes employees were already using IWS to work on a number of topics, such as international terrorism, real-time collection coordination, and Operation Enduring Freedom, the term given to operations in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2014. The newsletter announcement refers to SIGINT Directors gaining access to the tool. Another Snowden document published by The Intercept notes that senior officials held their first virtual meeting with IWS around December 2003, but that "GCHQ was unable to attend due to a computer failure."

65 comments

  1. Shocking! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    YOU won't believe how ugly this weird secret messagging app is!

    1. Re:Shocking! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      YOU won't believe how ugly this weird secret messagging app is!

      I know, right, it is almost like they didn't expect the whole world to look at it and check if they were being trendy enough. As if they just wanted a business tool, or something.

  2. Misspelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They misspelt "Operation Ending Freedom".

    1. Re:Misspelling by tepples · · Score: 1

      So does SIGINT send a SIGINT (Ctrl+C) to the private sector's privacy throughout the English-speaking world?

    2. Re:Misspelling by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, they mislabeled Operation Eternal Opium

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Re:Misspelling by CmdrTamale · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it should have been called "Operation ABENDing Freedom".
      --
      The best predictor of future actions is past actions.

  3. Well don't tell the FRENCH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would EXPLODE their heads!

  4. Is MSN Messenger even around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And why do I think it's a bad idea to publicize what they use? hmm

    1. Re:Is MSN Messenger even around? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Why not use GNU Messenger?

    2. Re: Is MSN Messenger even around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or ICQ!

  5. Ugly? by Comboman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A terribly ugly Windows programme.

    What's your problem? It looks like every other program written in 2003.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    1. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sooo.... an accurate statement, then.

    2. Re:Ugly? by sl3xd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A terribly ugly Windows programme.

      Isn't calling a windows program ugly redundant?

      It's pretty sad that most Linux applications have a more attractive UI than Windows; even back in 2003.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    3. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop being so mean. It was either hiring a foxy graphics designer, or bribe a few officials in central America.

      The foxy designer was given a consulate role in the Caribbean.

    4. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, this is the same rag that complained about gaming PC assembly being "too hard" because they "have big, dumb, sausage fingers".

      Read The Intercept links, ignore the Motherboard one.

    5. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lol. Is this one of those "if you tell a lie big enough, people will believe you" things?

    6. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the thread you're looking for is downstairs.

    7. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furthermore, software like this isn't primarily selected for looks.
      (And most, if not all, chat software is ugly, even today.)

    8. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you high? Most Linux programs, if they even have a UI, look like something written by a first year programmer with vision impairment.

    9. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just by glancing at it, it looks like it's using the Swing toolkit. Which means it was written in Java. So blame Sun Microsystems for that.

    10. Re:Ugly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A terribly ugly Windows programme.

      What's your problem? It looks like every other program written in 2003.

      Their problem is the people publishing the Snowden leaks have a fixation against the United States and want to make even the most asinine detail appear in the most negative light possible. What a great whistle blower... Blowing the whistle on 2000s era GUI design....

    11. Re:Ugly? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It must be, all the applications I use have had the same UI since the 90s. And Windoze actually had the same UI as us back then!

  6. Yet another example of treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do people think that this type of leak was necessary?

    This is more legitimately classified content being spilled into the public by Snowden's leak. He is a traitor who happened to release some good-to-know information about excessive, overzealous, and illegal activity (which hasn't stopped based on testimony!).

    1. Re:Yet another example of treason by CajunArson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While not popular since anything pro-Snowden is considered religiously approved on here you have a point.

      There's exactly nothing that violates the U.S. Constitution or any other legal or ethical standard* in an intelligence agency using a communications tool that protects the privacy of its users from other intelligence agencies, and leaking out the details is certainly illegal espionage at a minimum and treason at worst.

      * I mean real ethical standards, not the made-up delusions of Slashtards who think that literally any attempt by the U.S. to do anything to stop any terrorist or foreign government from doing anything is the greatest crime of all time [incidentally, that standard does not apply to any country other than the U.S.].

      --
      AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    2. Re:Yet another example of treason by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Why do people think that this type of leak was necessary?

      Because we want something as robust (if it really is). We all have the same right to protected communications.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Yet another example of treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you hear the things that come out of your mouth?

      Please describe this hypothetical system. Just an outline of the use cases vs. what you currently have, and how you expect your needs to be better fulfilled.

    4. Re:Yet another example of treason by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re 'We all have the same right to protected communications."
      If the workers and contractors in 5 eye nations, a few trusted helper nations can do this at work ...
      When they move to the private sector as ex staff or former staff the skill sets and methods go with them.
      Easy crypto access is then for sale to anyone or any nation with a shared faith, cash or friendships...
      The US gov has allowed backdoors over generations of products to stay in place.
      Once crypto like this is allowed over generations, all adversaries get a look in for free.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  7. UX Hipsters? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It looks simple and functional. Something you don't see anymore. Hell, a lot nicer than GNOME. Firefox? LOL. Sheesh.

  8. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sorry, citation needed. Please provide your sources.

  9. Boring by bytesex · · Score: 1

    It's classified U//FOUO! You could have probably gotten that document through a FOIA request.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  10. OMFG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't even imagine what it must have been like to have to endure such an ugly collaboration program.

    Thank God we now have pretty - at the expense of everything else - browser based software like Slack to collaborate over.

    1. Re:OMFG! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Thank God we now have pretty - at the expense of everything else - browser based software like Slack to collaborate over.

      Do you think Slack is pretty? Or nice-looking?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:OMFG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank God we now have pretty - at the expense of everything else - browser based software like Slack to collaborate over.

      Do you think Slack is pretty? Or nice-looking?

      No, I don't. I think that Slack is a useless piece of horseshit that millennials use to waste epic amounts of time and label it "productivity".

      But, I think that the Mac-olytes think its pretty and they seem to be the primary market for that Slack shitshow.

  11. Controlled Unclassified Information is FOIA-exempt by tepples · · Score: 1

    From the Army's FOUO fact sheet:

    FOUO is a DoD dissemination control applied to unclassified information when disclosure to the public of that particular record, or portion thereof, would reasonably be expected to cause a foreseeable harm to an interest protected by one or more of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Exemptions (DoDM 5200.01-V4, February 24, 2012, DoD Information Security Program: Controlled Unclassified Information).

    For Official Use Only is part of Controlled Unclassified Information, which is above public but below Confidential. CUI would probably be censored out of any FOIA response in the same way as someone else's health records.

  12. Who cares.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Honestly what the program looked like means nothing at all. Was it peer to peer or server based? encrypted end to end using what? Because there have been online collaboration tools like that available both commercially and open source at the same time frame.

    Honestly I am surprised they were not using Tandberg Codecs with the advanced encryption options that would allow point to point calling with routing and conferencing capabilities. the company I worked for back then sold a LOT of Tandbergs to military and 3 letter agencies. they took to being tunnled over the internet very well.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Who cares.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used IWS for a brief time period, at an earlier date than the article mentioned. It wasn't really anything special, we ran it for various purposes (some unrelated to intelligence) on both classified and unclassified networks. I was told at the time it was COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf), but I think only the U.S. Government and some pre-crash dotcoms purchased it.

  13. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wheat toast?

    Because I have no problem with that. Hillary eats them with white toast. I have a problem with that.

    Gary Johnson? Pumpernickel! He's straight out!

  14. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure it's babies on ergot-infected rye.

  15. ...So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what? It doesn't need to look pretty to attract users. Money spent on UI in this scenario would be money wasted. Employees are told "this is the tool you use to do your job".

  16. InfoWorkSpace by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Anybody got a price and/or torrent? It seems to be a fairly closely guarded secret.

    A publicly available alternative wouldn't hurt.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  17. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by davester666 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lots of very reputable people are saying this. Lots of credible, smart people. Awesome people.

    Many people are also saying that Trump makes regular donations to NAMBLA, and that's why he won't release his tax returns.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  18. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Okay then, since you say that these people are awesome, then we will accept it as a matter of fact. I will edit the wikipedia entry later, after I get my prescription refilled, as the voices are getting louder.

    Thank you kindly, you a mensch and a scholar.

  19. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by davester666 · · Score: 1

    I believe this earns you a "whoosh".

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  20. Is this encrypted? by prograsm · · Score: 1

    Is this encrypted? Because I have been repeatedly told encryption is for terrorists.

    1. Re:Is this encrypted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this encrypted? Because I have been repeatedly told encryption is for terrorists.

      Over 2 decades of IT experience and I have hardly ever heard that. Perhaps you should reconsider your friends?

    2. Re:Is this encrypted? by prograsm · · Score: 1

      It's not my friends. It's the FBI, congress, etc. They keep making things up to push for backdoors and spy programs.

  21. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No man. Now, you just got all serious and shit on me. Take yourself less seriously brother, you'll live longer.

    Yes, I got the joke. Feel better now?

  22. EARTH SHAKING! by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    So, 13 years ago they were using some funky secure chat program...

    And?

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  23. Actually we use something even more primitive by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    It's kind of sad that you think we should use leaky protocols and code, when our old code works just fine, but you're not cleared to know about it.

    Nice try, n00bZ

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  24. Java by GrumpyNope · · Score: 1

    Lol it's written in Java. Shouldn't take long for someone to exploit it.

  25. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not?

    I read that he was a big fan of Marlon Brando. Why wouldn't he donate to his lookalikes?

  26. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reddit bot..

  27. USE OLD TAILS LIKE ED SNOWDEN DID. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notice how Ed Snowden never had his traffic intercepted?

    Use Tails 1.4.1. Tails 1.5 and later is ALL SNOOPABLE. Traffic AND timestamps.

    Only legit torrent is here.
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/w35ddl

    It is a Live ISO of Tails Linux 1.4.1 and includes the correct sig from when it was originally distributed from boum.org
    They infiltrated boum.org and every version from 1.5 and later is compromised. They even lure you into newer versions on .onion url's. Debian is also easy to stumble upon, that is because the FBI infiltrated Debian as well. They killed Ian Murdock. They also are running Slashdot now. Notice the CA server is not GeoTrust Inc today? Now it is Let's Encrypt. Why? FBI.

    1. Re:USE OLD TAILS LIKE ED SNOWDEN DID. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://i.imgur.com/QLGyQYf.jpg

      FBI is a dying agency.

      CIA infiltrated boum.org.

    2. Re:USE OLD TAILS LIKE ED SNOWDEN DID. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Lets hope some of us had HTTPS Everywhere https://www.eff.org/https-ever... working at the time :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  28. FreeTel 1999 FTW by swd99999999 · · Score: 1
  29. The only thing surprising in this story ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is that it is/was a Microsoft Windows program.

    But then, this program was probably a USA invention, and only a year later USA citizens put G.W. Bush back in.

  30. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Many people are also saying that Trump makes regular donations to NAMBLA, and that's why he won't release his tax returns.

    What's peoples problem with the North American Marlon Brando Lookalike Association?

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  31. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Donald Trump eats babies on toast! Why does nobody care?

    Baby whats? Context is king.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  32. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    Worse, he eats toast with a fork.

  33. Java? by wildstoo · · Score: 1

    To me that looks like a Java desktop application using Swing. The shading of the toolbars and the bold fonts are a dead giveaway.

    So, yeah. It looks awful. :P

  34. Re:Donald Trump eats babies on toast! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    Donald Trump eats babies on toast! Why does nobody care?

    Because he only used good, clean American-bred babies, not filthy illegal immigrant babies. And they're properly peeled alive, then thoroughly cooked, so there is no safety risk.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"