Slashdot Mirror


Linux Turns 25, Is Bigger and More Professional Than Ever (arstechnica.com)

The Linux operating system kernel is 25 years old this month, ArsTechnica writes. It was August 25, 1991 when Linus Torvalds posted his famous message announcing the project, claiming that Linux was "just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu." From the article: But now, Linux is far bigger and more professional than Torvalds could have imagined. Linux powers huge portions of the Internet's infrastructure, corporate data centers, websites, stock exchanges, the world's most widely used smartphone operating system, and nearly all of the world's fastest supercomputers. The successes easily outweigh Linux's failure to unseat Microsoft and Apple on PCs, but Linux has still managed to get on tens of millions of desktops and laptops and Linux software even runs on Windows.Do you use any Linux-based operating system? Share your experience with it. What changes would you want to see in it in the next five years?

13 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. Cat got my tongue (subjects are dumb) by TFlan91 · · Score: 4, Funny

    >> I'm afraid that is 64 tasks max (and one is used as swapper), no matter
    >> how small they should be. Fragmentation is evil - this is how it was
    >> handled. As the current opinion seems to be that 64 Mb is more than
    >> enough, but 64 tasks might be a little crowded, I'll probably change the
    >> limits be easily changed (to 32Mb/128 tasks for example) with just a
    >> recompilation of the kernel. I don't want to be on the machine when
    >> someone is spawning >64 processes, though :-)

    If only he knew...

  2. Professional level audio experience by s1d3track3D · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What changes would you want to see in it in the next five years?

    Still waiting for the year of the desktop. A viable alternative to osx (and ms) for multimedia work, specifically, professional level audio engineering work.

    1. Re:Professional level audio experience by Voyager529 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ardour is great, and so is Reaper. The existence of a solid DAW on Linux isn't the issue at this point.

      First, one of the major issues is inertia - Logic Pro, Ableton, ProTools, Cubase, Sonar, and FL Studio are all respected names in the field, with lots of users, forums, and ecosystems around them. Audio engineering is very susceptible to a herd mentality, because anyone who uses something different will be told to join the herd, rather than getting actual support.

      Next, audio engineering is much more hardware dependent than most CS/IT disciplines. For us, 'input' basically consists of keyboards and NICs, which are interchangeable. Pro audio involves audio interfaces from Tascam, Presonus, M-Audio, and FocusRite, with MIDI controllers ranging from Korg/Yamaha keyboards to guitar pedals and drum pads. We'll circle back to the interface problems in a moment, but the MIDI controllers are largely USB now, meaning there are abstraction layers that may require specialized drivers, mapping software, and plug-ins.

      Back to the audio interface question, amongst the major things we have here is that Jack/Alsa are fine for desktops with Realtek chipsets, but when you're dealing with thousand dollar interfaces that can record sixteen channels of audio in real-time with 1ms latency, Jack and Alsa just don't cut it. OSX has CoreAudio and Windows has ASIO, both of which are industry standards that work with those interfaces. Linux would need something similar to it, but even if such a thing were to come into existence, support by the hardware OEMs is certainly not coming into place overnight. Meanwhile, those OEMs need to sell gear, which means that CoreAudio and ASIO handle over 99% of the market, and no one seems to be chomping at the bit to write yet another audio system for Linux to even provide a viable target. Reaper and Ardour could well start on that, but now you have DAW devs stuck writing middleware that already exists on Windows and OSX.

      I look forward to it happening, but it's a pipe dream right now. Hardware OEMs are targeting ASIO and CoreAudio, plug-in writers are targeting Ableton, Protools, and VST hosts, industry standard DAWs are targeting Windows and OSX, and a soup-to-nuts Linux ecosystem would require cooperation from everyone at the same time for a market segment that's super picky at best.

  3. User friendly by Iamthecheese · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I may, and even if I mayn't, I'm going to rant about the same thing I always rant about in these stories: usability. Desktop Linux is a great operating system for those who have put in the many hours needed to understand its quirks. It's a great operating system for people who never so much as install a new sound driver. For the remaining 80% of users it's a usability nightmare. The wide range of distro's running the Gnome and KDE mean many common interactions differ between computers. And the Linux/Unix ideology of each program doing one thing (and doing it well) means which programs a user will have is unpredictable.

    This, in turn, means it's all but impossible to provide a simple, straightforward instruction to a user for how to do something with her machine. Even something that should be dead simple. As soon as a user has to modify a config file or open a command prompt that's a huge roadblock. And no I'm not saying "be like Windows". That implication is a cop-out.It's not about doing things the way Windows does them, it's about making it "just work", and when it doesn't offering highly intuitive graphical interfaces for changing the way it works.

    The Linux development community has made huge strides in this direction, but more is needed. Write drivers that interface with Gnome and KDE environments and provide GUI's for every setting. If a driver doesn't gave a Gnome and KDE GUI that covers 99.99% of use cases it's not finished. Make it so a user never, ever has to open a command prompt. Stick to the top three or fewer interfaces, and make them rock solid. No more installing interfaces to install interfaces to install decompressers to compile drivers. Do this and you shall see the year of Linux on the desktop.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    1. Re:User friendly by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wake me up when even Windows follows that paradigm. In fact, Microsoft is, at least in the enterprise, moving explicitly away from the GUI, and pushing Powershell for many tasks. But really, it's always been that way. GUI configuration tools in Windows have always presented only a portion of the configuration options, and many settings have had to be adjusted via the Registry. Even with GPOs, many settings can only be accessed via the Registry.

      Like any system, whether it be Windows, OSX or Linux, everything works great out of the box... until it doesn't, and at that point the user is forced to go to some pretty daunting places. I've had enough fun trying to install drivers in Windows, or trying to solve problems on everything from screwed up profiles to getting the damned thing to time sync properly to know that Windows "ease of use" is more a marketing slogan than reality.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:User friendly by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The other problem is resistance in the Linux community to complex tools - because the problems are complex to solve. Even if you apply the "do one thing and do it well", it ends up as a complex tool (see SystemD). And no, sysvinit scripts are not the solution (question - why does /sbin/init provide a perfectly usable daemon manager that no one uses? I mean, it will monitor daemons, if they die, it will restart them. If they die too quickly, it will pause restarting to let the admin have CPU time to fix the problem).

      System initialization isn't easy - Apple has tried many different forms of system initialization daemons until settling on launchd (they started with sysvinit at first, then migrated to SystemStarter and a couple of others). And the BSDs have tried to port launchd over as well.

      Then there are other use cases - networking for example. NetworkManager is a solution to a problem users have - they may connect to different networks with different network settings. Because without it, handling the simple case of a user going from home wifi to public wifi is much harder. At least to Linux's credit, when it detects public wifi, it can auto-start a VPN client, or even prevent unencrypted traffic in the narrow window between connecting to public wifi and before the VPN starts up. Or even something as minor as going from static IP to DHCP.

      Then there's PulseAudio, a framework made necessary because users are complex. Such as being able to switch audio devices while the program has the audio device open. E.g., VoIP - user might be having it on the main audio device waiting for it to ring. The moment it does, users plug in a USB headset (new audio card), and have the call audio automatically routed to the headset without the controlling application (VoIP program) having to do a thing. Or a user switches from onboard audio to a Bluetooth headphone and being able to do it transparent to the player application.

      Of course, there's a Linux that does all this transparently to the user - we call it Android. And all this stuff is complex because it has to be - there's no simple way to have a system do these tasks.

    3. Re:User friendly by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Make it so a user never, ever has to open a command prompt

      We are still seeing this shit after MS Powershell came out?
      Look up "grep", "sed" and "awk" and you'll see why some people dealing with CSV files or similar are happy that there is a command prompt instead of having to wait for someone to write a special program for them.

  4. Re:"More Professional Than Ever" by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are confusing contributing with leading the project.

  5. Wow has it been that long? by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember when Linus posted it. I downloaded it and played with it a bit.

    When Slackware 0.99a came out I gave it another try. It was not long before I was converting my Minix boxes at the house over to Linux.

    In 1995 I switched from Windows 3.11 to Slackware and never looked back. To this day I run linux on all my systems at home save a small laptop that runs Windows XP though it is just to manage the spectrophotometer which does not have a linux driver.

    Linux has come a long way and I am always amazed at how much of the world runs linux from Cell Phones, to routers, to supercomputers.

    1. Re:Wow has it been that long? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed. It is pretty phenomenal that Linux runs on over 2 billion device. You're absolutely right on scalability: from cell phones all the way up to 99.4% of supercomputers. WOW.

      Hopefully nVidia and AMD will continue to support OpenGL on the desktop so that Linux can continue to make inroads into high performance heterogeneous computing & gaming.

      What's ironic is for MS to have once called "Linux is a cancer" to now admitting that they use it on 33% of their Azure servers!

      * http://news.microsoft.com/byth...
      * http://fossbytes.com/33-micros...

      Not bad for the little OS that could. :-)

  6. Re:"More Professional Than Ever" by SpankiMonki · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nope, Linus still leads the project, and he is employee of non-profit 501(c)(6) trade association

    Yet for some reason, he has never been selected as "Employee of the Month".

  7. Re:"More Professional Than Ever" by brantondaveperson · · Score: 4, Informative

    Look man, you just don't know how to use your operating system. Perhaps you need to go on a course. All the things you're complaining about aren't problems, once you know your keyboard shortcuts better. Windows alt-tabs through everything, which doesn't scale well with large numbers of windows. Mac alt-tabs through applications, and alt-backticks through windows within that application. Different approach. Being a mac, of course, there are loads of really nice tools that you can install to customise the behaviour of your system (contrary to popular belief). In your case, I suggest that you install Witch (Here). Yes, it costs money. The horror. It's nearly the price of two beers. Explain to me again why the hard work of software developers should be available to everyone for free, again? I forgot the details on that one. If you don't like the maximising behavour, there are tools to sort that out for you. I use BetterTouchTool myself.

    It's ironic that someone who wants to install Linux, which pretty much entirely consists of little plugin tools to make stuff happen, hasn't bothered to go looking for the little plugin tools that can customise OSX for you.

    Regarding your broken MBP, that's a shame. However, computers do break occasionally, and since you haven't bothered to look it up, you can hold down Cmd+V for a verbose boot, or Cmd+R for the recovery console, which will actually download an entire OS install from the internet and re-install your entire machine for you if you want - including pulling in your time machine backup (you have a backup, right?). Or, if it's something less drastic, you can start the mac in single-user mode (Cmd+S), or try some of the other tools from the recovery mode.

    I mean, I get you don't like OSX, and that's fine. But nothing in what you wrote is actually correct, and so I hope I was helpful, and not too patronising, in correcting you. And what exactly don't you like about installing stuff on a mac? Sure beats windows installers - and apt-get on Linux just craps out half the time (I guess I'm doing it wrong... touche...). Android follows more of the OSX model, which is that everything lives in the application package, and you don't bother with sharing components between applications because it causes far more problems than it solves.

  8. Re:"More Professional Than Ever" by swillden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You are confusing contributing with leading the project.

    Determining what code is written, what new features are developed, is leading the project. Not merging the contributions after ensuring the code is well written.

    Linus leads from behind. After a feature is developed, he decides whether it will be allowed into the kernel. It's the same sort of decisionmaking process as in most development workflows, it just front-ends most of the work.

    In most development processes, someone will decide "the product should do X", and they'll make some slides and pitch the ideas and the leaders will decide whether or not to pursue it. If they decide to pursue it then the developers will build it, debug it, test it, etc. The process is optimized around conserving a scarce resource, developer time.

    In the Linux process, someone decides "Linux should do X", and so they build it, write all the code, debug it, test it... and then they'll send it to Linus, who decides whether or not to merge it. Same process, the difference is that the leader decides on the basis of fully-implemented code, rather than slideware. In the Linux model, developer time is not scarce and the process does not optimize for conserving it.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.