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FDA Finds Flaws In Theranos' Zika Tests (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: This past week, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration mandated testing for the Zika virus at all U.S. blood centers. That juices demand for Zika-testing technology, but one company that isn't welcome to provide it yet is Theranos. The beleaguered blood analysis startup has run afoul of the FDA, yet again, The Wall Street Journal reports (Warning: may be paywalled). Specifically, regulators found that in developing and testing a new Zika-diagnostic technology, Theranos failed to use proper patient safety protocols, the type approved by an institutional review board. Such protocols are critical in ensuring the ethical treatment of patients involved in studies, and their safety. Theranos had sought the same FDA authorization, but voluntarily withdrew its request once regulators called the startup out, this time, on the safety protocols issue.

50 of 74 comments (clear)

  1. Girl Power! by alternative_right · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How much of the hype behind this company centered on the fact that its leader was a young, attractive, blonde woman from Stanford?

    How much actually focused on the product and the likelihood of it succeeding?

    Our news today is more entertainment than fact.

    1. Re:Girl Power! by msauve · · Score: 1

      How can the FDA find ethical or safety issues in running tests on a vial of blood, or even poking someone who agrees with a lancet? Really, I got poked with a lancet in middle school biology class, and I'm sure the teacher didn't have to go through any damn review board.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:Girl Power! by mADneSs · · Score: 2

      How much of the hype behind this company centered on the fact that its leader was a young, attractive, blonde woman from Stanford?

      In that vein, how much of the hate is centered on the same thing? Certainly less, I'm sure, but I'd wager you wouldn't see the same amount of vitriol if Theranos was helmed by some random CEO Joe. Unless it were Martin Shkreli, perhaps ... but that's a whole different sack of assholes.

    3. Re:Girl Power! by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Because companies run by male CEOs never have ethical problems. No sirreee, we must look at companies run by women, their gender makes them suspect!

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Girl Power! by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 3, Informative

      How much of the hype behind this company centered on the fact that its leader was a young, attractive, blonde woman from Stanford?

      I would say not much. Theranos was promising drug tests that would be significantly cheaper than current tests. According to Theranos pricing, Basic Metabolic Panel for about $6 bucks, Lithium level for $5... Together those might cost $200 (without insurance). I couldn't give two shits about who is at the helm if that's what they're promising.

    5. Re:Girl Power! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Easily, I'd imagine. If the tests are inaccurate or are improperly performed, people might unknowingly spread a disease, or undergo potentially dangerous treatment that they don't require. That's a serious enough consequence to require regulation.

    6. Re:Girl Power! by f97tosc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How much of the hype behind this company centered on the fact that its leader was a young, attractive, blonde woman from Stanford?

      How much actually focused on the product and the likelihood of it succeeding?

      Our news today is more entertainment than fact.

      Well at this point the primary story is the meta story about how otherwise sophisticated investors put in tons of money behind the the young, attractive, blonde woman even though they were shown very little evidence. That meta story is both entertaining and fact based.

    7. Re:Girl Power! by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 2

      I think we're all well aware at this point that Teranos did not have a legitimate service. My point was simply that Theranos's claim of a groundbreaking technique was much more of a draw than seeing an attractive female CEO.

    8. Re:Girl Power! by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      How much of the hype behind this company centered on the fact that its leader was a young, attractive, blonde woman from Stanford?

      Don't knock blondes, it's just everyone from Stanford that is a shiesty scammer with no morals or competence.

    9. Re:Girl Power! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      So you pre-emptively void a counter-example to establish an ad hoc save of your grouping statement?

      There's a phrase for that.

    10. Re:Girl Power! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Do you care about accuracy?

      Neither do venture capitalists! They seem to reckon everyone lies (they don't) and they they are smart enough to know by how much (they aren't). Their idea of due dilligence seems to be 6 months of arsing around followed by checking to see if anyone else has invested then joining the dogpile.

      Oh an the dogpile is big because no one wants to lose face by not investing in the big winner that all their frenemies invested in.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:Girl Power! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Well at this point the primary story is the meta story about how otherwise sophisticated investors put in tons of money behind the the young, attractive, blonde woman even though they were shown very little evidence. That meta story is both entertaining and fact based.

      The thing is with playing up the young, blonde part... where are all the stories about VCs putting vast amounts of money behind ordinary looking guys (as happens a lot) and losing it all because it was always a really stupid idea. The "young, blonde, female" thing is a massive red herring.

      http://nymag.com/daily/intelli...

      Aparrently someone invested 1.2 million in a social network for people with curly hair.

      What. The. Fuck?!

      And there are many tales of formerly huge values companies (e.g. Digg) not selling and becoming worthless, or selling (myspace) and becoming worthless, indicating that really, really stupid investments are very common.

      IOW they're playing up on her looks because she's female even though it has nothing to do with any of this.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    12. Re:Girl Power! by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Just saying, I wouldn't need a bag over her head to finish the job.

      Uh-huh. What about a bag over yours?

    13. Re:Girl Power! by SNRatio · · Score: 1
      In the industry, a lot of the hate came from the "Andy Grove Fallacy" scientific approach first , the hate for the "do first, ask foregiveness later" business model came later.

      http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2007/11/06/andy_grove_rich_famous_smart_and_wrong

      Software and hardware design always proceeds from highly predictable and well documented systems. Most things can be simulated from first principles, and unpredictable pieces of hardware are eliminated, either at the design stage or replaced in the field as they fail. Biology is the opposite: simulations are empirical and only work at the level of complexity where the fudge factors have been applied. Go up or down a level and the model falls apart. When you try to apply an IT approach to bio without acknowledging that, you get Theranos (and some of Google's ventures). It's all very fun to say you are going to creatively destroy the medical testing industry by running a hundred tests from one capillary (skin prick) blood drop, but the levels of many analytes vary widely from one blood drop to the next when you sample that way. Sure, you'll get numbers, but the numbers will be worse than useless. They'll be misleading if you use them as a diagnostic.

    14. Re:Girl Power! by SNRatio · · Score: 1

      Hype (as in money) was also generated by filling the board with smart, serious, famous people who knew absolutely nothing about any of the technical or medical problems but were only there for influence. Henry Kissinger? George Schultz? Navy admirals and Marine generals??

    15. Re:Girl Power! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The "young, blonde, female" thing is a massive red herring.

      That sounds like the latest release from Fleshlight Inc.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    16. Re: Girl Power! by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 1

      Eh...you left out the part about her deciding, after one year at college, that the whole education thing was overrated and she should just go ahead and found Theranos. Despite not having any background in medicine, chemistry or biology.

      Too "smart" for her own good.

    17. Re:Girl Power! by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but when you wave the pussy pass to get your company noticed in the first place, it will be mentioned when you are discovered to be a fraud.

  2. How many times do you screw up... by NoNeeeed · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...before you get the idea that you need to start doing things properly?

    Theranos really don't seem to be getting the hint that if they want to be taken seriously now they need to be utterly scrupulous about everything they do.

    1. Re:How many times do you screw up... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How many times does a company like this need to screw up before being forcibly shut down by the feds?

      Embezzle a little money and they come in and lock the doors on any business you run. Endanger people's lives and you get a slap on the wrist. What's wrong with this picture?

      captcha = "boners"

    2. Re:How many times do you screw up... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Hey, it's a startup, aren't you supposed to run fast, break things, fail fast? Fix it in the next release!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:How many times do you screw up... by TroII · · Score: 1

      How many times does a company like this need to screw up before being forcibly shut down by the feds?

      If the CEO was a man instead of the poster child for "women STEM CEOs," it would have been shut down a long time ago.

  3. Elizabeth Holmes still pretending to be a grown up by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Funny

    She's like an 8 year old playing doctor at the playground. She has unbridled enthusiasm, uses lots of big words that she overheard adults using, and pushes all the other kids who make fun of her for pretending to be something she's not.

  4. No they didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    FDA Finds Flaws In Theranos' Zika Tests

    Nope. The FDA didn't find a thing wrong with the actual test.

    The FDA found flaws in the process used to validate the test, and more specifically around the patient data privacy.

    That has nothing to do with a judgement that the underlying test isn't effective.

    1. Re:No they didn't. by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      If the validation was done wrong, then the test isn't valid until the validation is done right.

      If the validation was done right but the patients' privacy was breached, fine them under HIPAA and if the company isn't bankrupt, let them do their testing.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    2. Re:No they didn't. by CptChipJew · · Score: 1

      "The scientific method is stupid!" You heard it here first!

      --
      Vonal Declosion
    3. Re:No they didn't. by imidan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The accusation isn't that patients' privacy was violated. The issue is that there should have been an Institutional Review Board that reviewed the researchers' protocols and plans for interacting with subjects and handling samples to ensure that subjects were treated ethically and safely (among other things). And there was, at least for some parts of the research, but not for all of it. According to them, the part that didn't go through review was lab work that didn't involve any interaction with the subjects. So while these safety and ethics issues are very important with medical research, at the moment there's no indication of a major problem with Theranos' approach. They'll likely need to perform another IRB review, making sure to include every part of the research, and making sure it's super thorough. As long as their method works, I would hope that a new IRB review would satisfy regulators.

    4. Re:No they didn't. by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

      If their method works, but they violated the patient protocol, easy peasy. TAKE their approach, TAKE their capital (money and equipment) and tell their entire management staff they are out of biz, and further they are banned from any medical company for life. Now that would be incentive in the future for all medical companies to follow patient protocol.

  5. So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic ... by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... but the FDA is still finding something to complain about.

    This is after preeminent scientists argue that bioethics needs to get out of the way of modern research.

    An interesting parallel, by the way, was John Nestor. Here was a guy that intentionally (and even with good intention) drove 55MPH in the fast lane of DC traffic. He was, at best, misguided, since speed differential is more dangeous than speed and his actions were likely safety-reducing. He was also an FDA bureaucrat that never approved a drug and was ultimately fired for his "caution" that probably cost more lives and more lifesaving drugs than it ever saved.

  6. In too deep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    She started off iam sure with good intentions until she discovered it (their magic machine "Edison") doesnt actually work, by then she had enough funding to make her rich for life, she couldn't just stop and say sorry it doesn't work and hand the money back to investors she would be ruined, now she is in too deep to stop and so the charade continues until she is forced to stop.
    shame peoples lives are at risk while it continues, much like Teslas "autopilot", how many innocent people have to die until you call a project a failure ?

  7. I Thought They Were Banned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I thought Theranos had been banned form blood work. Why are they still in operation?

    1. Re:I Thought They Were Banned by tomhath · · Score: 1

      She's banned from operating a lab. They're trying to get around that by selling devices instead operating them.

    2. Re:I Thought They Were Banned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      They really should get back in their lane and stick to selling bottles that keep hot things hot and cold things cold, imo

  8. There's something wrong with Theranos by tomhath · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the company had adhered to the FDA's rules from the beginning instead of doing everything they could to cut corners, deceive investors, and generally act like the law doesn't apply to them the FDA might have cut them some slack this time. But they poisoned that relationship. Now the FDA is going to make them follow the letter of the law, every time, no exceptions.

  9. What the hell, headline writer? by mhkohne · · Score: 1

    There's nothing about the test being wrong. It' just that they ignored patient safety while conducting trials.

    If you don't read the article, please don't write the headline.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  10. Re:So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic .. by umafuckit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... but the FDA is still finding something to complain about.

    I can't see it say anywhere that the diagnostic test from Theranos works. It just says that there are problems with associated protocols. Seems like yet another example of their corner cutting behavior. Theranos doesn't exactly have a good history of producing reliable diagnostic tests.

  11. They are trying to run big pharm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These people are trying to run big pharm like it's a startup selling kitten mittens. Do it fast, get it to the market without proper testing and let our users beta test. It's all an internet scam, the only difference between Theranos and some other dot com blowout, is the government has more control over approval for medical treatments and devices.

  12. Re:Elizabeth Holmes still pretending to be a grown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I wonder how much longer it will take before people finally realize Theranos and Holmes are a scam.

  13. Thernaos test fails FDA standards - which were low by JoeyRox · · Score: 1
  14. Re:So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic .. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    There is plenty of room for the FDA to ease up on experimental medicine, but I've got to assume you're either a very competent troll or a marketing shill. Theranos doesn't do anything new, they in fact pretend to do the same thing as everyone else cheaper, while not doing it at all. They are marketing people who decided their next scam should be in healthcare, aka: the ultimate scum of Humanity.

  15. Re:So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic .. by BenFenner · · Score: 1

    There is no such thing as a "fast" lane in the United States. Calling it such is part of the problem. There are "travel" lanes and "passing" lanes (and in some cases slow-vehicle lanes for steep grades). It's not a "left" lane. It's not a "fast" lane. They are "passing" lanes.

    Also, I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said(?) "The best way to get rid of an unjust law is to enforce it strictly."

    Forcing others to abide by an unjust law as a form of civil disobedience in an attempt to get the law repealed is something I will applaud every time.

  16. Re:So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic .. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    What the FDA really needs to do is ease up on "me-too" products. The latest drug price scandals were not a result of drug patents, but because getting permission to sell something like an Epi-Pen takes a long time and is expensive. So, drug company A produces something, realizes it's got a monopoly, and raises the price a lot. Drug company B can take a year or three and spend lots of money and get permission to produce the same thing, and drug company A then drops the price to previous levels to hurt drug company B. Most countries do their own negotiation of drug prices, and have a lot of leverage, but the free market would do almost as well for out-of-patent drugs if it weren't for the friction in entering the market.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  17. Re:So there's nothing wrong with the diagnostic .. by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    That's not the case here. Plenty of people (pretty much everyone) got approved for Zika blood testing. Theranos didn't get approved because they are scammers.

  18. A Vital Distinction by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    Most things can be simulated from first principles, and unpredictable pieces of hardware are eliminated, either at the design stage or replaced in the field as they fail. Biology is the opposite: simulations are empirical and only work at the level of complexity where the fudge factors have been applied.

    Insightful. I see this division all the time: some fields succumb to theory; others require a consequentialist outlook.

  19. You Missed The Point by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    My point was simply that Theranos's claim of a groundbreaking technique was much more of a draw than seeing an attractive female CEO.

    This was accepted because the attractive girl fits into one of our media tropes, the Girl Power! trope. It also fits into our Silicon Valley trope.

    These tropes encourage us to believe that the unlikely is possible because that's the way it happens in movies. If Theranos had been helmed by an old white guy, there would have been media pushback, critical questions, etc.

    Instead the consumer audience accepted it with glowing excitement.

  20. Celebrities by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    At that point, we should just call them what they are: celebrities. Sort of like how people expect spiritual and political advice from rock stars and movie actors.

  21. "Smart" by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    There's a lot of "smart" (or perhaps clever) around today. Michael Crichton called it "thin intelligence."

  22. A Blonde Herring by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    At least it's an organic offering from Fleshlight Inc.

  23. Vanity Fair Gives A Thumbs-Up To This POV by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    Holmes had indeed mastered the Silicon Valley game. Revered venture capitalists, such as Tim Draper and Steve Jurvetson, invested in her; Marc Andreessen called her the next Steve Jobs. She was plastered on the covers of magazines, featured on TV shows, and offered keynote-speaker slots at tech conferences. (Holmes spoke at Vanity Fair’s 2015 New Establishment Summit less than two weeks before Carreyrou’s first story appeared in the Journal.) In some ways, the near-universal adoration of Holmes reflected her extraordinary comportment. In others, however, it reflected the Valley’s own narcissism. Finally, it seemed, there was a female innovator who was indeed able to personify the Valley’s vision of itself—someone who was endeavoring to make the world a better place.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news...

  24. Elizabeth Holmes, Sexy Beast -- Or Not? by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    Great contribution. An alt right blogger expanded on this:

    http://www.amerika.org/science...

    Which is the more realistic image? ...beats me, but the one on the left, I'd like to get her phone number.