Slashdot Mirror
New HDMI Mode Will Allow USB-C Connections (techhive.com)
An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes a report from TechHive:
On Friday, HDMI Licensing announced a new cable standard that connects USB-C and HDMI devices... The idea, naturally enough, is to to develop an HDMI-to-USB Type-C cable that ties together the most common cabling protocols in both the PC and consumer electronics industries, eliminating the need for an adapter or special silicon. Source devices like PCs, tablets, and smartphones will be able to output HDMI video and multi-channel audio from a USB-C port, just as they can now with DisplayPort.
"The USB Type-C connector is gaining traction in the mobile and PC markets," said HDMI Licensing, LLC president Rob Tobias. "Consumers expect to easily connect these devices to displays with a USB Type-C to HDMI cable and utilize the capabilities and features of native HDMI. This specification will also result in more source devices incorporating HDMI," which already total about 6 billion, he said.
HDMI Licensing expects to see products launching with this new technology "early next year".
"The USB Type-C connector is gaining traction in the mobile and PC markets," said HDMI Licensing, LLC president Rob Tobias. "Consumers expect to easily connect these devices to displays with a USB Type-C to HDMI cable and utilize the capabilities and features of native HDMI. This specification will also result in more source devices incorporating HDMI," which already total about 6 billion, he said.
HDMI Licensing expects to see products launching with this new technology "early next year".
and has abusive licensing fees. My company has been talking about adding this to future products, and they want more money for this than it costs us to add an HDMI port and our profit, combined.
Maybe I should go into a Best Buy or something.
DisplayPort is a much better solution for most devices.
Honestly the USB-IF should have come up with their own official display profile at this stage, this is becoming ridiculous. We now have Displayport, MHL and HDMI as Alt-modes as well as displayport over thunderbolt carried by type-c. Ugh.
Connector is great and all but the current implementation is trash.
My guess is only one gets used while rest will be ignored, most likely Displayport due to existing implementations as well as Thunderbolt requirements and more up-to-date versions (DP 1.3 vs HDMI 1.4 only). No manufacturer will want to pay additional money in order for all of them to be supported (increased licensing costs as well as more expensive chipsets).
Yeay, now we get to have DRM stuff on our USB chipsets!
Yeay!
I'm oh so happy!
The latency shall be most amazing with that. As is HDMI puts 30-60ms of it. So the cpu encode to usb then to hdmi then hdmi to panel should be most awful.
Which ads? I block everything, so I'm wondering what's going on.
Source devices like PCs, tablets, and smartphones will be able to output HDMI video and multi-channel audio from a USB-C port, just as they can now with DisplayPort.
Yes, and they can do 4K @ 120Hz over DisplayPort's USB-C implementation, or 4K @ 30Hz over ours! Just the same!
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
so they can sell yet another "upgrade" to some HDMI-2.x transfer via USB-C, right? Vade retro, Satanas!
Oh, great, now how many cables and connector types are we supposed to keep track of in order to correctly connect our devices? I've set aside an entire room for cable variants now.
E Proelio Veritas.
This sounds great but if HDMI takes over and forces encryption, IP protection, or what ever they may wish than this is a horrible idea.
The USB spec is already confusing, and they want to make it worse. We already have multiple voltage and ampere ratings to deal with. There's a confusing number of connectors as it is. I will admit though that this problem will solve itself in time as old devices die and we are soon left with mostly just USB-A, USB-micro-B, and USB-C.
The USB-C spec already includes two video modes, MHL and display port. As I see it HDMI is largely dying as a spec, just let it die. At work we have a lot of older computers with DVI-I outputs, which can output VGA or HDMI with a passive cable. I have yet to see a display that has an HDMI input. TVs will have HDMI, sure, but I even wonder how long that will last. The new computers that we get have DisplayPort and/or VGA. Even DVI output is rare any more, which is largely identical to HDMI except in the connector.
I can see why the HDMI people want to use a different connector for their video standard but I'm having trouble understanding the desire to use the USB spec, they are putting themselves in direct competition with the already established MHL and DisplayPort. What really confuses me though is the USB people agreeing to this.
I know that when one feels the need to ask, "Why?" the answer is usually, "Money." Where is the money in this though?
I don't get it. I don't want it. I'd rather use DisplayPort, VGA, or even DVI. Much of my complaint with HDMI is with the crappy connector but that is solved with using DVI or DisplayPort connectors. When it comes down to it I don't much care what protocol is on the wire so long as it works. I don't see the advantage to adding the HDMI protocol to anything. In fact it may make things worse since I'd have to pay the HDMI license fee for my device if it has it.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Fix your ads yo
Ad Block... it is the only safe way to browse the web...
USB type C can already go underthunderbolt and thunderbolt supports external video cards to boast performance ... weird.
In actually they are merging together as they just use each others protocols and can adjust electrical settings and drawl on demand.
http://saveie6.com/
I can't wait until everything is routed over USB-C.
Displayport.
Thunderbolt.
HDMI.
USB.
Everything.
I especially can't wait until internal hard drives are using USB-C for data and power.
Sigh. HDBaseT. Sigh.
:T:R:A:N:S:
Seriously, they are just confusing the market by serially adding one data standard to another connector, ad infinitum. Queue to Grandma/Grandpa attempting to plug any connector into any other port, because they have been trained by the one device that just happens to support cross-compatibility.
Already the large USB connector looks about the same size and shape as the HDMI port, which looks roughly the same size and shape as the DisplayPort connector, which is roughly the same size and shape as the eSATA port. In fact you can confuse any of the above with the Ethernet port if you are operating by feel, or have very poor lighting, or have poor eyesight. And the Ethernet socket is least like the rest.
Unless they go All-In and unify it all, this is crap. If you could truly make one cable do everything (an uber-USB if you will), then I would support this. But one standard at a time? Crap! Only Thunderbolt had the potential to do it all and Thunderbolt never caught on outside of Apple. Apple never promoted TB adoption outside of Apple because, well, Apple is used to going it's own way and doesn't much care about the computing ecosystem outside it's own borders.
I especially can't wait until internal hard drives are using USB-C for data and power.
I remember when FireWire was supposed to come to internal hard drives for data and power. I still come across PCs at work with an internal FireWire port for this reason. Obviously it didn't happen. Lots of things killed it.
FireWire isn't dead yet though, I still see it on professional audio equipment.
Here's an idea, let's do FireWire over USB-C. Too much? Well, we passed "too much" on USB-C a long time ago.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
We all know USB already has various security issues by its nature. And until they added (the little used) Ethernet causality down HDMI cables, we were pretty safe from video cables being an attack vector, but if we start all pushing it down USB. What's to say my companies smart TV on a firewalled subnet that I also use as a secondary display doesn't also connect thunderbolt or USB down one of these cables? No more just not plugging suspicious devices into USB ports when all the machine has is USB ports. This is getting ridiculous.
I only use FireWire for a digital camcorder I got around 2004. It's all I've ever used it for, actually.
Internal hard drives (=flash drives) are becoming NVMe.
I don't believe the title here is accurate. It's not a new HDMI mode that allows the USB-C connections. The HDMI spec was expanded to support the USB-C connector. The USB-C spec supports alternate modes, which now includes the HDMI alternate mode.
Would not a more accurate title be:
"New HDMI Spec Defines USB-C Alternate Mode"?
Or:
"HDMI Will Soon Allow Connection By USB-C Port"?
Then there is this line from the linked article:
"Connecting a USB-C device to an HDMI display has been something of a mess, until now."
Yes, a "mess" for certain... Not. I go to Google and search for USB-C to HDMI cables and adapters and find multiple hits for suitable devices under $50. Most of those are dongles with a male USB-C to female HDMI, which means a "mess" of adding an HDMI cable. Finding a cable with USB-C on one end, and HDMI male on the other, might take a bit longer and a few more bucks but it's a "clean" conversion from USB Gen2 to HDMI 1. If one was short on funds and didn't mind some "mess" then a Type-A USB connector to HDMI or DVI adapter can be found, along with whatever cable is needed from there. This can plug into the more common USB 3.0 plug, which is typical on many computers and USB-C docks that people with USB-C laptops and even desktops would have.
There is no shortage of options to mate a modern computer to a display with HDMI input. If one feels they must use a USB port for this job then there are solutions, many with very high reviews. It would make more sense to connect this HDMI display to, you know, the HDMI port that most any PC has. Lacking that there are passive and inexpensive adapters for DVI and DP++. Active adapters don't cost much more. Thunderbolt to HDMI adapters exist too, which might give the best picture since that allows for a much more capable GPU than just a meager protocol conversion.
I have not yet seen a display that supported only HDMI. There is almost always one or more of a DVI, DisplayPort, component, or VGA port. It's not too hard to find a display with all the above. Again with inexpensive passive adapters that can turn HDMI to DVI or DisplayPort there does not seem to be a problem. One might see a problem in paying $79 for the Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter but it allows for charging at the same time it provides HDMI output, and even a USB 3 Type-A port for other devices. Expensive but not "messy" since it is effectively a dock for the MacBook Air.
We already have plenty of standards, I don't see how this new one resolves any "mess".
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I can't wait until everything is routed over USB-C.
You don't get it. Everything will be routed through USB-C, but it will be only one protocol at a time. So you will have to carefully choose your port, cable and device that go together if you ever want Displayport, Thunderbolt, HDMI or whatever else which isn't plain USB working correctly.
It was excellent for external hard drives. Far faster than the USB port on the same drives.
moar liek ShamelessThief amirite?
After Anker recalled their USB-C cables the other day, there was an article on The Register about it, the comments section had a great bunch of comments in it including: "it's a design error An electrical specification which allows multiple, software-controlled supply voltages, but does not require connected devices to tolerate the highest available voltage. What could possibly go wrong?" I can see a lot of fried TVs when people push 20A at 5V into their TVs because of a bad cable. Anyway, comments section worth a read: http://forums.theregister.co.u...
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
Citation needed. USB can route data in packets, and has enough bandwidth for multiple kinds of packets over one connection. You are saying it will never work, but it already works.
USB 3 has DMA support doesn't it?
Everything is getting DMA; HDMI and everything else will have it. All you'll be able to count on is enforced memory restrictions as far as device access. Which still leaves one open to devices messing with each other's DMA.
Firewire has had restrictions for a long time now; depending on hardware and OS support-- I think for about a decade.
The BIG concern should be the cheap hardware out there-- electrical USB-C problems and the crap connectors.... and the never ending list of new connectors which do almost the same thing we have to adapt etc. because somebody has to save a mm or a penny.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I was in Fleet Farm (a Minnesota-based rural economy-oriented big-box store), and they had a DTV converter box that had a (ordinary) USB-3 input jack. They also sold a WiFi streaming multi-media player that output to HDMI (natch!).
Well, that is an epic fail. If I bought the streaming player and the converter box, I could not hook them up.
On the other hand, maybe those two devices are not meant to be purchased together. The converter box is for analog dinosaurs (me, my converter box with one of the dodgy electrolytic capacitors just failed, and it would be so, very, very, hard, for me to scare up a 25 V 330 uf 105 deg-C rated capacitor, take the box apart and not lose the screws or bust the snaps, warm up the soldering iron, and then go search for de-soldering copper braid.) The streaming player is for people with Internet who all have HDMI flat screens by now?
But maybe analog dinosaurs are not expected to have Internet connections?
I don't know why I bother to reply to an AC but here is your citation:
http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadge...
Scroll down to the graphic where the pin out is shown.
The USB-C alt modes define how the 4 high speed lanes on the port are used. In USB 3.1 mode they are used for 2 pair of RX/TX lanes. In a 2-lane DP mode there is one RX/TX pair of lanes for USB 3.1 and 2 lanes for DP. In 4-lane DP mode all 4 lanes are used for DP data. In Thunderbolt mode all the USB-C high speed lanes are dedicated to PCIe and DP packets, USB 3.1 packets will not share these lanes. I have not seen the spec on how MHL or HDMI use these lanes, I can only assume it is similar to DP mode. In whatever mode the USB-C connector is in there will always be a bidirectional pair of data wires for USB 2.0.
The mode of the port will be defined by the first cable or device connected to it. Once in a certain mode it will stay there until every device is disconnected. Daisy chaining USB 3 and TB 3 devices will not be allowed. DP and TB devices can be daisy chained only if the DP devices are on the end of the chain. I assume daisy chaining USB and DP devices is allowed but then the USB devices would have to be at the end.
I imagine it possible to make a cable that converts one USB-C mode to another but it would have to be insanely expensive, convert only one mode to another (and only in one direction), and still be confusing for many users. Even if someone makes one of these magic cables that USB-C port will go to whatever mode that the peripheral, cable, and host all support. This might be DP, MHL, HDMI, USB3, or TB3. It may even be just USB2.0 since that is where they all have a common denominator. The exception is that DP can share the cable with either USB3 or TB3 but again every piece in the chain has to support it, and there are other limits that go with that.
I was torn with ignoring an AC that may just be trolling to helping to inform someone that was mistaken but was willing to learn. I hope I didn't choose poorly.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Perhaps it is time that the USB and HDMI consortium put some of those licensing fees to good use and started cracking down on sub-standard cable manufacturers. I'm quite sure that USB and HDMI are both registered trademarks. Since most of these sub-standard cables are being produced by unlicensed outfits, it should be easy to roust up the usual barrage of 3 letter organizations that act as the IP goon-squad.
Yes, EXACTLY - you are not "most". You proved my point ten times over with your post (natch!).
And I'd love to check out Fleet Farm.. Where I grew up it was called Rural King, so I can imagine it pretty well ;)