Finland Prepares Their First Tests Of A Universal Basic Income (futurism.com)

Finland is getting ready to launch their first pilot program with a Universal Basic Income -- one of several countries which are now testing the concept. An anonymous reader quotes a report from Futurism.com: Finland is about to launch an experiment in which a randomly selected group of 2,000-3,000 citizens already on unemployment benefits will begin to receive a monthly basic income of 560 euros (approximately $600). That basic income will replace their existing benefits. The amount is the same as the current guaranteed minimum level of Finnish social security support. The pilot study, running for two years in 2017-2018, aims to assess whether basic income can help reduce poverty, social exclusion, and bureaucracy, while increasing the employment rate.
In January a basic income program will also begin testing in the Netherlands, according to the article, which points out that Y Combinator has also launched a test program in Oakland, California. And there's now also calls for a Universal Basic Income in India, where one social worker argues it's "sound social policy," while pointing out that it's already being implemented in other countries. "In Brazil, it targets the poor and has been a way out of poverty; in Iran, it has substituted for subsidies and citizens receive about $500 a year..."

Comments

Re: Won't work in America

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with the current system is that if you decide to start working they take away your benefits so people give up and they just take the benefits and don't work. I don't think we would have as many problems if we had guaranteed basic income versus all the social programs that we have now. With guaranteed basic income people will be allowed to look into different career paths and look into having a job on top of receiving the benefits and nobody could complain because everyone would be receiving the same amount of money. If they spend it then they're out and there is no other social programs that they can fall back on. The problem right now is that if you spend all your welfare you still have food stamps and lots of other charity organizations that will give you food and get the housing and pay electric bill which is why people don't manage their money properly.

Better Programs

[JimSadler]

It certainly would help to provide a basic income as long as people are free to work and earn extra money without loss of that basic income. There are a couple of difficulties as those that work in low paying jobs will resent people earning about what they earn without working. In the US there is a larger issue. We need the public to be able to spend money on more than just the bare basics of life. Businesses need buyers. The US now has way too many people who have to stretch every penny. That excludes them as buyers for numerous products and services. As employment becomes more and more an unusual thing due to technology replacing human labor, more and more people are excluded from the buyer pool. That means less employment and less taxes and more public expenses dealing with the displaced etc.. The one and only thing that can hope to work is to provide an income that not only covers all the basics but also leaves money left over to spend on things that are not basic needs. If we do not do this we will surely face a total economic collapse and a loss of our nation. It is also obvious that we will have to price control some items such as medical care and medications or no amount of income will help to bail us all out of the impending collapse.

Re:Better Programs

[sjames]

Wages increasing to keep up with inflation? That sounds like a nice change of pace, let's do it!

More seriously, there would likely be SOME inflation, but since the economy can't tell the difference between basic income money and wage money, it's not going to be the problem you expect. Just index the basic income to inflation and it'll find an equilibrium.

Re:Better Programs

[swb]

I think the best basic income schemes have a negative progressive income tax basis to them. You lose the basic income as your regular income increases and at some level of earned income you don't get any basic income.

This provides a work incentive, since even the lowest form of work produces income gains over basic.

I think low wage employers would end up really hating basic income because while they might not be forced to pay more, they would probably have to improve their working conditions and employee treatment. I think what discourages a lot of impoverished people from working isn't the nature of the work itself, it's the nature of the management combined with the low pay. Unrealistic labor goals, bad shifts, intrusive and arbitrary policies, and so on.

There's a bunch of blue collar jobs I'd do, even for less money, but I just couldn't tolerate the way blue collar employees get treated. High school was less confrontational and paternalistic.

I think there are serious obstacles to any kind of basic income scheme. For one, I think employers generally fear any world where unemployment isn't an existential threat for employees -- I think it radically reshapes the balance of power. Immigration is a real problem -- how do you contain a basic income system to the basic margins of your economy?

Re:Won't work in America

[sjames]

They already allow the banks at the top of the chain to just wish money into existence so they can make even more money demanding interest on it. Why not wish the money in at the bottom of the pile where it will actually fuel the economy that keeps the country running rather than the non-productive swapping of game tokens?

Re:Different from the Social Security benefits?

[epine]

As a guess, it's probably not means-tested. If they get a job, they keep getting the UBI money.

The best feature of UBI is not making it conditional and then eliminating minimum wage. Maybe a person wants just an extra $2/hour over their UBI, they can do that, no problem.

However, with just a select group on UBI, having no minimum wage allows the UBI group to undercut the non-UBI group (who certainly won't be willing to work for $2/hour), so phasing this program in in an ethical way is non-trivial.

This.

[rsilvergun]

The other thing you'll see with the poor is they're used to everything going to shit. It's tough to plan ahead and stick to the plan when you've spent your entire life having shit fall apart around you. When things are going well you don't expect it to last, so you live for the moment.