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Sony Wins Battle Over Preinstalled Windows in Europe's Top Court (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader shares an Ars Technica report: The sale of a computer equipped with pre-installed software isn't an unfair commercial practice because most customers prefer to buy a laptop they can use straight away, Europe's top court has ruled in a victory for Sony. "Failure to indicate the price of each item of pre-installed software" isn't misleading, the Court of Justice of the European Union added in its ruling on Wednesday. The CJEU was asked to intervene after French citizen Vincent Deroo-Blanquart took Sony to court for failing to reimburse the cost of pre-installed software -- Windows Vista Home Premium operating system -- that he did not wish to use on a laptop. Sony refused and instead offered to cancel the sale altogether.
I can't go to the grocery store and tell them I don't want the chees that comes with my mac and chees. So it is the same with a computer.
The user pays [a pittance] for Windows, but they typically don't pay for other preinstalled applications unless they're paying rather a lot for a bundle of stuff they already know the value of, and it drives the sale. Rather, the vendors pay the OEM for inclusion of their garbage in your install. If someone had to pay the true cost of that software, it would be the user, whose machine is subsidized by crapware. I went to TFA and didn't find any useful information (that is, the summary here is about as informative) and I'm curious as to what other software on the device was supposed to have been worth money.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Just because you may want the company to offer different products, doesn't mean they have to. My electric razor came with all kinds of useless attachments, but it would be silly to ask for a refund for those I don't use. The seller offers the product for sale, the buyer decides whether to buy it, they negotiate the price, and if both are satisfied the sale takes place.
Asking about "the price of each piece of preinstalled software" is even worse nonsense. We don't obliged sellers to disclose their costs of assembling their products (that's their private information!). And the retail price of the components is utterly irrelevant.
In the specific case of MS-Windows on laptops there is a question of abuse of monopoly power (the ruling does have an exception for when the bundling distorts the market) -- but as long as Sony's policy of not offering component refunds is due to Sony (rather than a contractual obligation between Sony and Microsoft) I don't see how that could be a cause for complaint either. I remember situations where MS insisted that to get an OEM license vendors had to promise to only sell machines with preinstalled OS -- but even then I don't think it had to be MS-Windows that was preinstalled, and this is not similar to what's in the complaint.
I think this was probably the correct legal conclusion. Clearly, the computer and operating system were meant to purchase as a bundle. If I buy any other product bundled up with something else, returns or exchanges are "all or nothing" (speaking as a U.S. citizen, anyway).
You can't just buy the package deal of a tube of toothpaste and a toothbrush, and say "I want to know what the included toothbrush is worth, and get refunded for just that part of the package, because I still want to use the toothpaste."
That being said? This probably helps clarify that bundled OEM software or operating systems should be treated as free "throw ins" when making computer purchases. They're generally restricted in their licensing provisions anyway, so they're useless for anything except that specific computer they were bundled with. About the only significance I see with the pre-loaded OS is that hardware manufacturers may have designed the whole machine not to run many other options.
Hopefully, more people will put pressure on the vendors to ensure their computers can run alternate OS's, instead of just buying them first and making assumptions it "should be able to work". My workplace was recently bitten by this when we bought one of those Intel NUC PC's to replace a dead Dell PC running our Finance's scanning software and flatbed scanner. The old system was all configured in Windows 7 Pro so we hoped to just image the drive and blast it back onto the NUC, to get things back up and running. Nope! The NUC seems to not be able to run anything older than Windows 8.
I'm tired of the trend of whiney consumerism. If you don't want an OS, don't buy the fucking computer that has it pre-installed. It's not like it was advertised as just the hardware and he was surprised when Windows booted up.
I'm glad common sense prevailed in this case.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
My electric razor came with all kinds of useless attachments, but it would be silly to ask for a refund for those I don't use
Were any of those attachments a third-party product with a not-insignificant cost that were produced by a known monopolist? There are lots of thing we buy that may come with components that aren't used - or aren't often used - but in general those are still part of the product. When I buy a car, it's not like I can't get the options like fancy mags, high-end stereo+woofers, etc... I just pay for them as an option. Including an OS or not is a pretty easy option. Heck, they could even include an unactivated version of windows but require you to pay if you want to use it (and get a serial key etc).
The EULA that comes with Windows specifically allows customers to return it for a refund. The agreement is the first thing that pops up on a new computer.
Based on the ruling and your logic, the MS EULA is invalid. Sony is not bound by the terms of the written agreement. Keep in mind that the customer does not see the agreement until the computer is purchased and in their possession.
Sony isn't selling you "the HARDWARE". They're selling you A COMPUTER WITH OPERATING SYSTEM (and loads of other crap).
Seriously, Sony's mantra is that they're differentiating themselves through their bundled software. I worked there, that was their official line.
If you want to buy hardware, find a company that sells you hardware. Sony apparently isn't it.
Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
True, but things are often different when dealing with a convicted monopolist with a long history of illegally abusing its position to coerce manufacturers into not offering alternative OSes.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Why does Apple buy tons of parts from Samsung and is at the same time suing the living daylights out of them? The real world is complicated, you know?
Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
Where does the EULA *MICROSOFT* produces say "it" being the entire computer, most of which is not theirs?
I don't have the Windows Vista EULA handy, but the Windows 10 EULA states:
Key words: "which might require you to return the software with the entire device on which the software is installed"