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Intel Breaks Qualcomm's Hold On Apple's Baseband Chips (wsj.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader randomErr writes: In a big blow to Qualcomm, Apple plans to incorporate Intel baseband chips into at least some models of the new iPhone 7. The selection of Intel chip means that in newer iPhones Apple will no longer support CDMA technology popularized by Qualcomm. The Wall Street Journal states that many industry analysts believe Intel could be supplying as many as half of of baseband chips for Apple's handsets.
This was the last key iPhone component that didn't have two sources, and the Journal estimates that Intel's revenues could now increase by up to $700 million before the end of 2016.

84 comments

  1. The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by JoeyRox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They have to - Verizon and Spring still need to finish deploying more GSM/LTE spectrum before they can finally abandon CDMA. Until then Apple still has to buy chips from Qualcomm for phones sold into Verizon/Sprint customers. The difference for the 7/7+ is that Apple has a GSM/LTE-only SKU that uses the Intel chips, for AT&T and T-Mobile (and global) customers.

    1. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And is actually the primary reason to avoid this generation. The loss of the headphone jack is a money grab associated selling Bluetooth via their beats brand. Dividing their handset lineup is a return to the Motorola / LG / Samsung model of inflating sales by requiring a new device when transitioning to a new network.

      Apple should have held their guns and demanded that Verizon and Sprint pony up to accelerate their rollout or risk their number one device having reduced coverage on their network. Customers won't complain about Apple if their friends with the same device have better service on another network. Instead they will switch carriers. To be clear, that is what consumers should want other people to do.

    2. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      It's a common misconception that CDMA is only used on Verizon and Sprint; practically all GSM carriers use a combination of three modulation schemes (and three radios), those being TDMA (aka 2g), CDMA (aka 3g), and OFDMA (aka 4g). GSM carriers have been using TDMA and CDMA for decades, though they used TDMA for voice and CDMA for data (TDMA efficiency is bad akin to old token-ring networks) hence a few years back, having two radios meant only GSM phones could do both voice and data simultaneously. The main difference is that GSM uses W-CDMA whereas Sprint/Verizon use CDMA2000, both of which are for the most part qualcomm tech.

      That said, you can't go without CDMA unless you're basically totally blanketed in LTE, as GSM carriers do not use CDMA for voice.

    3. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      UMTS (the 3G GSM standard) uses a CDMA-based modulation scheme, yes, but that is totally unrelated to what is discussed in this article. What the new Intel chips do not support is the IS-95 standard and derivatives, which also uses a CDMA-based scheme, but is otherwise unrelated, and which is misleadingly referred to just as "CDMA". UMTS is supported just fine by either modem.

      Verizon, Sprint, etc. use IS-95 and successors (CDMA2000, EV-DO, etc.) for 2G and 3G service. The GP is correct that Verizon and Sprint would need a complete LTE rollout to turn that off and use only the standards that form part of the GSM family tree (GSM, UMTS, LTE).

    4. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Both GSM and CDMA are on the way out. The way phone makers and carriers are going is called Voice over LTE. Which basically means that in the future voice will be encoded and carried over the data LTE lines instead of a separate voice only system.

      The theory is this will make phones simpler, free up radio spectrum for other uses, and improve call quality. And it will. I have tested some voice over LTE hand sets and the call quality is much better than over GSM and CDMA.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    5. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the THEORY may be that... the reality is that the carriers will charge more, the carriers will no longer sell or provide service for "feature phones" (aka dumb flip phones) requiring more expensive "smart phones" with their stupid smart phone surcharges and mandatory data plans.

    6. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use VoLTE regularly and whilst the call quality is better, once I'm a few km out of town it falls back to HSPA for data & gsm for calls. The coverage of LTE is lackluster without adding more towers, especially in regional areas.

    7. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Both GSM and CDMA are on the way out.

      CDMA is much faster on the way out than GSM. Carriers need a fallback strategy and that will be GSM for the foreseeable future.

    8. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1

      There are feature phones that use the LTE network. Feature phones willl remain apart of the market for the foreseeable future as long as there is a demand for them.

      Not everyone wants, or needs a smart phone.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    9. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by macs4all · · Score: 1

      And is actually the primary reason to avoid this generation. The loss of the headphone jack is a money grab associated selling Bluetooth via their beats brand. Dividing their handset lineup is a return to the Motorola / LG / Samsung model of inflating sales by requiring a new device when transitioning to a new network.

      Apple should have held their guns and demanded that Verizon and Sprint pony up to accelerate their rollout or risk their number one device having reduced coverage on their network. Customers won't complain about Apple if their friends with the same device have better service on another network. Instead they will switch carriers. To be clear, that is what consumers should want other people to do.

      First off, the headphone jack rant is both tired and off topic.

      Second, even Verizon and Sprint can't just snap their fingers and swap out a bunch of cell tower transceivers and antenna systems in the amount of time that would make a difference. But I sense that practicality isn't high on your priority list.

    10. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean theres two iPhones with the same price and name but if you buy the wrong model, without even being able to differentiate, you get one with fewer functionality and features?

    11. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Apparently your current phone is missing the grammar correction feature.

      "I'd like 3 functionality, please."

    12. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by nateman1352 · · Score: 1

      I don't think this made the Slashdot front page but Intel bought VIA's CDMA modem design and license about a year ago. Intel's modems currently only support GSM & LTE, whereas VIA never updated their CDMA modems to be LTE capable. It likely will take a couple years for Intel to integrate VIA's CDMA implementation with their LTE design, but once its done, Intel's modems will be just as capable as Qualcomm's.

      CMDA isn't only important for the US Verizon/Sprint market, the much more important reason to implement CDMA is China Telecom. Either way, the iPhone 7S will likely mark the return of all iPhones being universally supported by all carriers... regardless of whether there is an Intel or Qualcomm modem inside it.

    13. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True... but LTE is a descendent of GSM. It is based on GSM and UMTS, and it's common for LTE to simply 'fallback' to UMTS. (Happens to me all the time, sometimes the phone is 4G, sometimes it's 3G, depending on where I am in the country.)

      Voice being treated as data is not unique to, nor novel with, LTE. As I understand it, the 3G UMTS standard treats voice as another multiplexed data stream (with some QOS guarantees) -- not a new idea at all. This is how come 3G UMTS devices have long supported simultaneous data and voice.

      In most countries (those that are GSM network based, and without a significant CDMA2000 presence), LTE is (in practice) a non-event, simply means a 4G indicator instead of 3G indicator. And, yes, a phone call can start on LTE-4G and then transition to UTMS-3G and even down to classic GSM-TDMA-2G as one moves into areas without upgraded cell sites (assuming the cell sites agree, of course.) The migration is only significant when moving off CDMA2000 -- and the only significant markets for CDMA2000 is two networks in the USA (Sprint and Verizon.)

    14. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      What the new Intel chips do not support ...

      Intel makes BBs? I didn't even know, until now, that they did that, The vendors that spring immediately to mind when someone mentions BBs are Qualcomm, MediaTek, Broadcom, and... umm... Intel makes basebands? Did they buy someone?

    15. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They bought Infineon, who made the basebands for iPhones up through the 4 (GSM).

      Intel has had some success with WWAN cards in laptops too with the Sierra EM7345 being a pretty popular option in Lenovo laptops last year.

    16. Re: The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And China Telecom which has more users than Verizon and Speint combined.

    17. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

      I read that article as well. But by that time both Verizon and Sprint will have likely fully transitioned away from CDMA.

    18. Re:The iPhone 7/7+ still support CDMA by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Both GSM and CDMA are on the way out.

      But it'll be at least a decade before the areas which are now (still) only 2G get VoLTE transmitters, much less the 3G sites.

      Watch the indicator on your phone as you drive through the countryside. 3G has been out how long and they still have 2G-only areas?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  2. Yeah. Well, by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 1

    Personally, I always thought that the US should use the standard international bands. It makes buying foreign phones a huge pain.

    1. Re:Yeah. Well, by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You can't have the government dictate stuff like that. Look at how few phones Europe has. The mandated GSM standard killed innovation and phones barely took off.

      In 'Murica it makes sense to not only have competing standards but to have them on different frequencies. (Can't have T-mobile talking to a AT&T tower). This sort of competition has let companies pick the best and most profitable route for roll out. As a result we have the cheapest, fastest most ubiquitous cell phone setup anywhere in the world.

      Capitalism wins again over dirty socialism and government intervention.

    2. Re:Yeah. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, that's why US is also the top country in respect to internet access speeds and broadband coverage. Right?

    3. Re: Yeah. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And by "standard international bands" you mean... what? Common European bands? Japanese? Chinese?

    4. Re: Yeah. Well, by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 1

      Alright, I see your point then. I just find it annoying. I think we only have second best but we have a massive land area. If there's anything we need to do it's to just ban data caps everywhere. Data costs virtually nothing to any ISP, it's coverage that costs money.

    5. Re:Yeah. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoooooooooosh!

    6. Re:Yeah. Well, by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      The principle of selling licenses of part of the spectrum is already a very big form of government intervention. Rather just allow any device to send at any frequency, and the people with the most powerful antennas will be able to get their signal over.

    7. Re: Yeah. Well, by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Well the problem with data caps is that while a cell tower services one phone in a certain area, it can't service any other phones. Yes, you can make the degree smaller with special antennas, but the problem stays the same: cell towers are a shared medium. If you allowed everyone to surf at full speed during the whole month, the network would collapse.

    8. Re:Yeah. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't you have massive monopolistic issues with AT&T, comcast and your shitty internet (you know the old fashioned non latent internet that doesn't use radio). Did capitalism win there too? Sometimes it's hard to see what is wrong when you don't know it could be a lot better.

    9. Re:Yeah. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the bands that are the problem. Sprint and Verizon whitelist phones. They don't want cheap phones on their networks.

    10. Re:Yeah. Well, by ColdWetDog · · Score: 0

      don't you have massive monopolistic issues with AT&T, comcast and your shitty internet (you know the old fashioned non latent internet that doesn't use radio). Did capitalism win there too? Sometimes it's hard to see what is wrong when you don't know it could be a lot better.

      Perhaps, but we're better at sarcasm than pretty much anyone else in the world.

      USA! USA! USA!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:Yeah. Well, by Invalidator · · Score: 1

      Sure capitalism will win when you live in a fantasy world or simply make stuff up (as you have done). Europe does not have "few" phones (http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/02/22/smartphone-ownership-and-internet-usage-continues-to-climb-in-emerging-economies/), but approximately as many as the corrupt US. Perhaps you're too young or too dumb to recall capitalism greatest triumph in 2008: the sub-prime mortgage that was started by American capitalists and provided a near disaster for all those "dirty socialism" countries that did not invent any economic scams to enrich the scammers at the cost of the trusting.

      Before you start bleeting bullshit about capitalism, maybe you ought to look things up first - you know, like instead of talking out of your ass.

      --

      ~_~ Not tonight, dear, I have a modem.

  3. CMDA Sux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Need i say more?

    Competition in theory is a great idea, but in this case the non-overlapping standards only hurt us consumers with carrier lock-in ( in many cases )

  4. iPhone 7's monopoly perpetuation powers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Removing the headphone jack perpetuate's Apple's vertical ecosystem and lock-in.
    Using chips tied to one carrier or the other's network perpetuates the carrier's lock-in, and sells more iPhones when people want to switch networks.

    The sad part is this latter move undoes years of hard effort Apple's made in the 4 previous phone generations at altering the landscape of American cellephony to get consumers some much-needed network independence.
    g=

    1. Re: iPhone 7's monopoly perpetuation powers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me one thing that Apple did purely for the consumer without having its bottom line in mind. And by that I don't mean making customers happy but milking them in the short and long run

    2. Re:iPhone 7's monopoly perpetuation powers! by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Removing the headphone jack perpetuate's Apple's vertical ecosystem and lock-in. Using chips tied to one carrier or the other's network perpetuates the carrier's lock-in, and sells more iPhones when people want to switch networks.

      The sad part is this latter move undoes years of hard effort Apple's made in the 4 previous phone generations at altering the landscape of American cellephony to get consumers some much-needed network independence. g=

      Get a life.

  5. Why avoid again? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    And is actually the primary reason to avoid this generation.

    Why is that? I bought a T-Mobile version. It will work fine across the U.S.. It will work fine when traveling internationally. So why should I avoid the phone because they have two models?

    The loss of the headphone jack is a money grab

    People who believe that theory are dumber than a bag of hammers. If tit were a money grab Apple would not ship each phone with an adaptor... DUH.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The loss of the headphone jack is a money grab

      If it were a money grab Apple would not ship each phone with an adaptor... DUH.

      Let's just see how long it is before the adapter is no longer included free... then who will be saying, "Duuuhh!"

    2. Re:Why avoid again? by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "People who believe that theory are dumber than a bag of hammers."

      Do you not know that Apple is the largest BlueTooth headphone maker on the planet? Hello, Beats.

      If you can't smell the money grab, you need to have your brain checked for tumors.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Why avoid again? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Your T-Mobile version will not work on any of these CDMA2000 networks. In particular, it won't work in those parts of the United States where Verizon has a CDMA2000 signal and T-Mobile has 0 bars.

    4. Re:Why avoid again? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Your T-Mobile version will not work on any of these CDMA2000 networks

      Yes, I'm a little irked about that but these days the T-Mobile coverage across the US is pretty good, and getting better all the time - they seem to be doing a good job upgrading the network as time goes by.

      I'll see in reality how well it works not having CDMA, but from the list of networks still on CDMA it doesn't seem like I'll be missing much. I was just in Alaska recently and unlike previous years I had been there, all of the small towns had decent LTE reception (though not from T-Mobile, a Canadian carrier).

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    5. Re:Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying DUH makes you sound like a moron, especially when YOU don't think it through. How many people will loose the adapter and have to re-purchase it. How many will have their adapter break and have to re-purchase it. Your the idiot. DUH.

    6. Re:Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or lost or broke, then cha-ching more profits for apple

    7. Re:Why avoid again? by macs4all · · Score: 0

      or lost or broke, then cha-ching more profits for apple

      Then they will sell you a replacement for the princely sum of... Wait for it.... NINE FUCKING DOLLARS.

      So kindly STFU, will ya?

    8. Re:Why avoid again? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      "People who believe that theory are dumber than a bag of hammers."

      Do you not know that Apple is the largest BlueTooth headphone maker on the planet? Hello, Beats.

      If you can't smell the money grab, you need to have your brain checked for tumors.

      It is you that has the brain tumor; and for the sake of the planet, let's hope it's a Glioma.

    9. Re:Why avoid again? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Saying DUH makes you sound like a moron, especially when YOU don't think it through. How many people will loose the adapter and have to re-purchase it. How many will have their adapter break and have to re-purchase it. Your the idiot. DUH.

      It's nine whole dollars; get over it. Just use the included Lightning headset until you get your new adapter to plug in your precious $10 earbuds (that don't sound any better than the Apple included ones). Or if you're really that unable to go without music for a few hours, carry a spare...

    10. Re:Why avoid again? by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Your T-Mobile version will not work on any of these CDMA2000 networks. In particular, it won't work in those parts of the United States where Verizon has a CDMA2000 signal and T-Mobile has 0 bars.

      I don't think my t-Mobile iPhone6 can roam onto CDMA right now anyway. Can you prove this is currently possible?

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    11. Re: Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't think nine dollars for a 10c device isn't a money grab them by all means, hand over your money $9 at a time.

    12. Re:Why avoid again? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      And is actually the primary reason to avoid this generation.

      Why is that? I bought a T-Mobile version. It will work fine across the U.S.. It will work fine when traveling internationally. So why should I avoid the phone because they have two models?

      The loss of the headphone jack is a money grab

      People who believe that theory are dumber than a bag of hammers. If tit were a money grab Apple would not ship each phone with an adaptor... DUH.

      You didn't read the summary? The phones that use Qualcomm's baseband chip support CDMA, which Verizon and Sprint must have support for. The phones that use Intel's baseband chip can't, since Intel would then have had to license them from Qualcomm. So the phone you bought (assuming it's an Intel version) is one that works with T-Mobile and AT&T, but not w/ the other 2.

      But you are right - there's no reason to avoid the phone just b'cos they have 2 internal variations (not models). In the US, most people would get the phone from the carrier (unless one buys it straight from the Apple Store, or Microcenter, or Best Buy, or wherever. In the former case, the phone has to be compatible, or else, the carrier won't sell it. In the latter case, the salesperson is likely to ask you which carrier you are w/ so that they can verify compatibility.

    13. Re: Why avoid again? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      If you don't think nine dollars for a 10c device isn't a money grab them by all means, hand over your money $9 at a time.

      I don't think that nine dollar retail for a two dollar device is a money grab; it's about typical.if you think they are producing that adapter (which has a custom microcontroller with DAC in it) costs closer to two dollars than 50 cents landed costs, you have never even been peripherally involved in product design.

    14. Re:Why avoid again? by bored_engineer · · Score: 1

      My wife and I both have an iphone 6s and use different carriers. I'm on a regional GSM carrier (GCI) while she uses Verizon (CDMA). We occasionally travel to Chena Hot Springs, where there is a single CDMA tower owned by GCI. (GCI recently bought the Alaska Communications System cell network, which is CDMA.) My wife has a signal, while I have nilch. I won't call this confirmation that a t-mobile phone won't roam onto a Verizon CDMA network, but it's suggestive. Isn't the spectrum also different?

    15. Re:Why avoid again? by YouGotTobeKidding · · Score: 1

      Actually fanobi its not just about bluetooth headsets its about extorting the credit card 'swipe' processors for a cut of the action as they NEED a headphone jack to work.

    16. Re:Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't come up with an actual logical rebuttal, so you resort to insults. Typical braindead macfaggot.

    17. Re:Why avoid again? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Can't come up with an actual logical rebuttal, so you resort to insults. Typical braindead macfaggot.

      No. I'm just tired of writing the same rebuttal over and over. Look up some of my comments to this article for reference.

    18. Re:Why avoid again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If tit were a money grab Apple would not ship each phone with an adaptor... DUH.

      Wow! I think you're the leading contender for the "Stupid Motherfucker of the Year" award. The dongle is first and foremost inconvenient. That inconvenience will push users into forking over cash for wired headphones that have paid the lightning tax or Apple's new AirDuds. Apple gets paid either way. That's the point. Not the first money grab by Apple and certainly won't be the last. It's an integral part of how the company operates.

  6. CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

    GSM was based on TDMA - everyone gets an equal timeslice of the bandwidth, even if they don't actually use it. In CDMA, everyone gets an orthogonal code and broadcasts whenever they want to. Broadcasts by other phones raise the noise floor for your phone. SNR then scales depending on how many people are transmitting at any given time, and all the bandwidth gets distributed automatically and equally between only those transmitting at that time.

    TDMA was fine for voice. But when it came to high-speed data, GMS simply couldn't compete with CDMA's superior bandwidth allocation. They threw in the towel after a year - most implementations of 3G on GSM used wideband CDMA. They just named it UMTS, HSPA+, etc. because of sour grapes. This is why you could talk and use data at the same time on GSM phones - they had a TDMA radio for voice (still do), and a CDMA radio for data. CDMA phones used the same radio for voice and data (which were built on different protocols since voice was about a decade older) so couldn't do both simultaneously.

    Most LTE implementations are OFDMA - does the same thing as CDMA, except using orthogonal frequencies instead of orthogonal codes. OFDMA requires more processing power to separate out the individual broadcasts, which is why it came after CDMA. Early OFDMA implementations like WiMax sucked up too much power with processors of the time, and would drain a cell phone battery in about 2-3 hours. It wasn't until a few years ago that low-power processors allowed us to implement OFDMA while not requiring a recharge halfway through the day. But CDMA was pretty much the proof of concept needed to make OFDMA a reality. Before CDMA, nobody knew if a real-life cellular network with hundreds of devices broadcasting simultaneously using orthogonal signaling would actually work or scale like theory said it would.

    If the people saying the U.S. should've adoopted GSM had gotten their wish, our cellular data speeds today would probably be down below 1 Mbps. When a competitor introduces a far-superior product, it forces the other players in the market to improve, instead of sitting on their asses not improving things because people are paying them anyway. Now that LTE is becoming ubiquitous, loss of CDMA would be less of an issue. But any phone built without CDMA will not be able to fall back to 3G data in most areas of the world.

    1. Re:CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If the people saying the U.S. should've adopted GSM had gotten their wish, our cellular data speeds today would probably be down below 1 Mbps. When a competitor introduces a far-superior product, it forces the other players in the market to improve, instead of sitting on their asses not improving things because people are paying them anyway.

      The contra to this argument is that differing standards forced carrier lock-in, keeping consumers stuck with a device that wouldn't work on other carrier networks, allowing them to it on their asses and not improving things because people couldn't easily leave the carriers they were on.

      Had the US adopted a carrier-neutral standard users could have easily switched carriers without buying a new device and device portability and consumer choice would have driven carrier improvements instead of consumers being forced to sit around and wait for a carrier to adopt improvements to their unique signalling.

    2. Re: CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Innovation > Immediate Convenience

    3. Re:CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If the people saying the U.S. should've adoopted GSM had gotten their wish, our cellular data speeds today would probably be down below 1 Mbps.

      One doesn't follow the other. The adoption of one standard at one point in time does not prohibit a change in standard at a later point in time. My old Nokia brick doesn't have an LTE chip in it either, and it seems the USA is quite laggard when it comes to upping phone speeds, something which was rolled out in countries which were GSM only before it came into the USA.

    4. Re: CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is that why so many carriers offer great deals to people who want to switch, some going so far as to buy out the rest of their contract?

    5. Re:CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by slimjim8094 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I hardly know where to begin. You're confusing standards with modulation techniques. You're also confusing GSM the standard (1991, TDMA, voice with GPRS and then EDGE) with GSM the "class" (which includes UMTS, HS(D)PA(+), and LTE). The latter is a set of standards defined by the 3GPP, whose scope now includes the maintenance of the original GSM standards.

      CDMA is a modulation technique (actually a "channel access method", basically a way to share the medium vs an actual encoding). Other modulation techniques are AM, FM, QAM, CODFM, and OFDMA (OFDMA is one channel-access version of OFDM - 802.11G uses OFDM with CSMA/CA instead). There's a "class" of standards built on IS-95 (you may remember it as cdmaOne) that includes CDMA2000, 1xRTT, and EV-DO. These did pioneer the use of CDMA for cellphones, but everything uses CDMA nowadays, and GSM (the lineage) has used CDMA (W-CDMA) since UMTS.

      The point is, in non-RF cellphone usage, the antonym to CDMA is not TDMA, but GSM. And GSM the lineage has very much won the standards war with LTE. Over 90% of devices in the world use GSM-lineage standards, including most Verizon and Sprint devices (which are right at home on LTE). Eventually the legacy IS-95 derived standards will be completely turned off and the US will have gotten over its weird not-world-standard fetish, at least for cellphones.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    6. Re: CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The UMTS (3G GSM) standard was developed in Japan more or less contemporaneously with IS-95 in the 1990s and pre-dates both CDMA2000 and any significant use of mobile data by anyone. I don't think the existence of IS-95 in the US had anything in particular to do with it. Both use the same coding technology (CDMA), but that dates back to the 1930s and is incidental.

      IS-95 in the US has just meant pointless incompatibility and wasted resources. It didn't drive any innovation -- nothing in the LTE family is based on it, UMTS didn't inherit from it, and it was a technological dead end. The real consequence of fragmentation and carrier lock-in are something for which the US is still paying the price.

    7. Re:CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA standards war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've stated this wonderfully. It's amazing how many people don't get the distinctions between modulation and a cellular technology that encompasses much more than just modulation. Just to add to what you were saying re technology licensing (qualcomm's proprietary vs gsm/umts/hs*a/lte) - the natural successor to the IS-95 class of protocols was UMM, and qualcomm abandoned that years and years ago (2008?) to jump on the LTE bandwagon. There have been many advances since then, and a lot of it has to do with telecom industry cooperation.

      IS-95 CDMA has always been a distraction and companies like verizon and sprint certainly wish they had bit the bullet longer ago (like at&t/cingular & tmobile/voicestream did). They have harder transition paths, and simultaneously suffered and benefited from their legacy proprietary deployments.

      Another individual pointed out a list of world wide cdma providers and stated that if you drop support for qcom's cdma you lose access to all of those. What he didn't know or didn't say specifically if you already can't roam onto the vast majority of those anyways. The list contains either legacy networks that are transitioning and will be shutdown soon, or it contains a list of networks that are on the CDMA 450 standard. Nobody supports CDMA 450, including most android devices with qualcomm chips and all iOS evices. Those networks are usually run for rural country side with old / legacy feature phone hardware.

      The reality is there is only one major deployment of IS-95 CDMA left, and that's verizon (I mean major in terms of subscribers served - sprint has a large deployment, but they're not in the same league as verizon with respect to customers). And Verizon is moving as fast as it can to LTE (which is the evolution of the GSM standard).

      There is no more cellular standards war. The GSM standards path may have lost the initial dataspeed battle (with the early CDMA being better than GPRS/EDGE, but having its ass handed to it when the battle was UMTS vs the IS-95 derivative at the time), but it won the war handily.

      For all intents and purposes, the only thing that really prevents truly world wide roaming at this point is the massive fragmentation in the frequency bands for the LTE standard. For UMTS the 5 standard did the trick, but with LTE you have so many bands in the US alone. My rule of thumb is I look for something that covers the US well (and specifically my preferred carrier), and then check to make sure it support 3,7,20 to get the best euro / worldwide coverage possible. Unfortunately, that trick doesn't always work well in asia.

  7. This is a false dawn though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel recently completely (allegedly) gave up on getting IA cores into mobile phones.
    Who gives a tuppence about the baseband - Intel isn't selling CherryTrail to iPhone - and Qualcomm has a massive presence in mobile.
    Intel spent the best part of 10 years navel gazing about IA in mobile phones, subsidising to beat the band to have a 'presence' - after selling XScale at just the wrong time and then stubbornly/stupidly continuing to refuse to make a high end Arm SoC for mobile. Intel bought it's way into the baseband market too - how long until the baseband industry moves on from Intel's comfort zone in baseband - and we see Intel (again) trying to educate the market with some older/unwanted baseband technology ?

    BK wake the fuck up and make a competitive Arm SoC for mobile...

    1. Re:This is a false dawn though by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Who gives a tuppence about the baseband"

      Intel does, it's a cheap-ass and easy part to manufacture and they can make an easy profit off of it. Apple does, because they can get it cheaper from Intel, thus increasing the per-unit profit per phone that is equipped with the Intel baseband chip.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  8. Not thinking this through are you by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    The adapter is free. How does Apple make money on free adaptors again, which they pay to make BTW. So they make and give away hundreds of millions of adaptors, and sell maybe 10000 more BT headsets... spending tens of millions to make hundreds of thousands. HMM.

    Do you even know how money works?

    Bag of hammers.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ya right those adapter probably cost apple 50 cents to make. but nice try

    2. Re:Not thinking this through are you by macs4all · · Score: 1

      ya right those adapter probably cost apple 50 cents to make. but nice try

      Fraud not. Not even in China. Probably around $2, when you factor in some R&D, mold design, BOM costs, etc. so they're doing ok at $9; but the overall profit of the adapter project is definitely negative.

      And that doesn't even consider the R&D costs, etc, for redesigning the INCLUDED Headset, which is now Lightning-based.

      And they are NOT recouping these costs in the phone, all things being equal; especially since they doubled the storage on the new model (and even went back and did the same thing on the previous model), without increasing the price, and in fact reducing the price in the previous model. Also, their new SoC is quad core, which of course means a larger die, and likely lower yields, which in turn make the whole project have to absorb those additional costs, too. And all that without hiking the price to compensate.

      I'm not saying "Poor Apple"; but those costs do come from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is their Profit on each phone.

      So, it is really hard to see this as a "money grab".

    3. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its free because they make an adapter that costs 0.20 cents to make, and is so annoying to use people will buy their $180 bluetooth headphones.

      It works better than you.

    4. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The adapter might come with the phone for free - guarantee it'll break because it's shit. Apple makes money on licensing the connector. They'l make money on the bulk licensing fees from manufacturers of third party equipment, they'l make money on the beats headphones which will no doubt be advertised as optimized or designed for use with iEquipment.

      Are you terminally stupid?

    5. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Khyber · · Score: 1

      It's so sad that you're unable to figure out why Apple got rid of the 3.5mm jack.

      It's even more sad that you apparently don't have half a clue how planned obsolescence works - you force new licensing from third-party equipment manufacturers for that new Lightning adapter they're undoubtedly going to want to make and sell themselves.

      Plus if people don't want to use the adapter, oh look, more reason for Apple to point you towards a pair of grossly-overpriced cheap-shit Beats headphones.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You can't see the money grab because you know jack shit about BOM and cost reduction.

      You also don't see the money grab because you're too narrow-minded. Let me expand your feeble mind on why they killed the headphone jack.

      I love how your lack of logical rebuttal below denotes your feeble mind. That's all children can do, after all, throw insults without any logical thought behind it. Typical behavior of an Apple user.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    7. Re:Not thinking this through are you by macs4all · · Score: 1

      You can't see the money grab because you know jack shit about BOM and cost reduction.

      You also don't see the money grab because you're too narrow-minded. Let me expand your feeble mind on why they killed the headphone jack.

      I love how your lack of logical rebuttal below denotes your feeble mind. That's all children can do, after all, throw insults without any logical thought behind it. Typical behavior of an Apple user.

      Been an embedded Dev. For nearly 4 decades; so I guess I DO know jack shit about BOMs and cost reduction. But there is no way you can get that down to your ten cents, no way, no how, no place.

      And if Apple wanted to kill off alternative payment dongles that depended on the headphone jack, they could have done that without even touching the hardware, you imbecile. And what are you going to say when all those payment dongles simply switch to Bluetooth, or are redesigned for Lightning?

      You really don't understand how all this stuff works, or you wouldn't have included that link to that ridiculous, paranoid-induced image.

    8. Re:Not thinking this through are you by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 1

      The devices in your image are all outdated pre-chip-card readers. There's a newer bluetooth-capable reader available from nearly every one of those vendors.

    9. Re:Not thinking this through are you by zentigger · · Score: 1

      So I can just walk into an apple store and grab an adapter from the bucket on the counter with the big "free" sign on it?

      No?

      I didn't think so.

      Then, they are not free.

      Is there anything dumber than a bag of hammers?

      --

      the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head

    10. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "But there is no way you can get that down to your ten cents, no way, no how, no place."

      You must not know nothing of Alibaba/Aliexpress. I can get several thousand dollar faceting machines for twenty bucks. Bulk headphone jacks are two fucking cents in quantities of 1,000 or more.

      Embedded developer != Sourcing Manager.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    11. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "The devices in your image are all outdated pre-chip-card readers"

      Not the European versions which were out for years and had chip+pin. Try again little penguin.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    12. Re:Not thinking this through are you by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 1

      Regardless, bluetooth versions are available, so removal of the headphone jack clearly isn't a path to payment domination for Apple.

    13. Re:Not thinking this through are you by macs4all · · Score: 1

      "But there is no way you can get that down to your ten cents, no way, no how, no place."

      You must not know nothing of Alibaba/Aliexpress. I can get several thousand dollar faceting machines for twenty bucks. Bulk headphone jacks are two fucking cents in quantities of 1,000 or more.

      Embedded developer != Sourcing Manager.

      Alibaba/Aliexpress sells surplus crap. It is not a serious source. Their shit comes and goes on a weekly basis. Great for a prototype run to get a bunch of A/C adapters for cheap; but no serious company would EVER source from their fly-by-night vendors.

      And a hobbyist who sources stuff from Digikey and Mouser is not a procurement department for a multibillion-dollar corporation.

      And an embedded dev may not be a "sourcing manager"; but working ones generally have to work hand in hand with them.

    14. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fuck are you talking about, Alex? His post was polite and had not insults in it. You are the one who routinely insults people, Alex. You need professional help.

    15. Re:Not thinking this through are you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly Alex got owned again. When will you learn not to yap about things you don't know about?

  9. Will LTE Verizon/Sprint then support _any_ phones? by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Thanks for describing this in good detail, although I'm bound to forget the IS-95 stuff.

    So once Verizon and Sprint switch over to a complete LTE rollout, does that imply that any LTE phone will work w/ them - just slip a SIM in? Like right now, I have a Lumia 550 which I use internationally, but not in the US, since it's not supported by Verizon. But if Verizon and Sprint did go full LTE, would all LTE phones automatically be supported by Verizon and Sprint just as easily as they are by AT&T and T-Mobile? In other words, would one be able to just buy any LTE phone, get a Verizon/Sprint SIM and be good to go?

  10. Re:Will LTE Verizon/Sprint then support _any_ phon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, and in fact you can already do this if you are in areas with LTE coverage.