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Oregon Settles $6 Billion Lawsuit Over Oracle's Botched Healthcare Website (registerguard.com)
"While the crippled website eventually worked, Oregon failed to enroll a single person online [and] had to resort to hiring 400 people to process paper applications." An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes the AP:
The state paid Oracle $240 million to create its Cover Oregon website but ultimately abandoned the site and joined the federal exchange to comply with the Affordable Care Act... The state initially asked for more than $6 billion in punitive damages when it filed the lawsuit in 2014 against the Redwood City company, but Oregon ultimately accepted a package that included $35 million in cash payments and software licensing agreements and technical support with an estimated upfront worth of $60 million...
Six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come and ends a bitter legal battle that has damaged Oregon's "collective psyche," Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said in a statement. "The beauty of the deal is that if we choose to take full advantage of the free (software), we are uniquely situated to modernize our statewide IT systems over the next six years -- something we could not otherwise afford to do," she said.
"Oracle has insisted the website worked but former Gov. John Kitzhaber chose not to use it for political reasons."
Six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come and ends a bitter legal battle that has damaged Oregon's "collective psyche," Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said in a statement. "The beauty of the deal is that if we choose to take full advantage of the free (software), we are uniquely situated to modernize our statewide IT systems over the next six years -- something we could not otherwise afford to do," she said.
"Oracle has insisted the website worked but former Gov. John Kitzhaber chose not to use it for political reasons."
Didn't need an oracle to see that coming! Play me off, Johnny!
Waiting for roman_mir and Opportunist and company to show up and blame this on government...
> Oregon ultimately accepted a package that included $35 million in cash payments and software licensing agreements and technical support with an estimated upfront worth of $60 million.
Software licensing which will probably cost them more than $95 in the next few year(s) because they are not using the software according to the license.
... they will generate a very big cash-flow for Oracle, since they are now uniquely situated to completely vendor-lock-in their statewide IT systems?
Just wait until they do all those resource intensive upgrades and locked all their systems to Oracle, and then find out what the licensing/maintenance fees are from the 7th year onward.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Oracle avoids a $6 Billion lawsuit
Oracle nets $200 million after a small reimbursement
Oracle potentially gives away software that creates a lifetime dependency on their products going forward
Oracle hasn't actually given away any software yet
Win/Win
for Oracle
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Caveat: I'm no friend of Oracle, and as much as both sides in this were odious, I was actually voting for the state.
I live here, and have connections in government IT. The inside word is that this was largely botched on the government side, with too high expectations, too many changes, and huge feature creep. I would argue that Oracle's mistake was not getting out when they plainly saw that this was a dysfunctional working relationship.
But look what Oracle offered -- a paltry (by their standards) sum, amounting to a roughly 15% discount on the original price tag, plus licenses that lock Oregon into more dependence on Oracle, which are guaranteed to make money for Oracle down the road.
One can paint this as a victory for Oregon with inflammatory headlines, but it looks to me like Oracle won in the end. (And since this is Oracle, "the end" is exactly what you imagine it to be.)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But is believed to include rent-free luxury accommodations and rounds of golf for officials on a certain Hawaiian island, and VIP seats on a cabin cruiser for front-row viewing of America's Cup yacht races.
This guy seriously needs something bad to happen to his company. It's a running sore on the buttocks of the Earth.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
The beauty of the deal is that if we choose to take full advantage of the free (software), we are uniquely situated to modernize our statewide IT systems over the next six years
NO! Modernizing your IT systems does not involve purchasing the most expensive Legacy SQL Server software on the block.
Also, what happens when the 6 Years run out? The state will probably be paying Oracle more than $100 Million a year in licensing fees thanks to their "Free" deal, and now all their IT systems will be tied to Oracle's expensive legacy SQL products, instead of more affordable ones such as PostgreSQL, Hypertable/Cassandra or even Microsoft SQL Server.
So the state paid Oracle $240 million for a product that was effectively not delivered, and Oracle only has to return somewhere between $35 & $95 Million? Either way Oracle is making between $145 & $205 Million. I think it's safe to say that the state of Oregon effectively lost this case even though the facts were clearly on their side. Imagine if you ordered a car and were stupid enough to pay for it before delivery, a few months later when you had been told it would be delivered you rang up the manufacturer and they said that it would be a few years before it was delivered. You told them to cancel the order and they said "sure, but we're keeping the money". After a long drawn out court battle they got to keep 3/4 of your money. Yet another example of how out of wack our "justice" system is.
Six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come ... "The beauty of the deal is that if we choose to take full advantage of the free (software), we are uniquely situated to modernize our statewide IT systems over the next six years -- something we could not otherwise afford to do," she said.
No, the beauty of the deal is that if you do choose to take full advantage of the free software and modernize you systems, then you'll be on the hook to Oracle for even more money for licensing and support *after* the six years of freebies runs out -- unless you then want to scrap your Oracle systems. Points: Oracle
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
So, maybe somebody here can answer this...
Why would you use Oracle for anything? Is there really something that Oracle does that an open-source database can't do? I mean, they're clearly a horrific company to do business with, it would seem that if there's any other solution that would work it would be an obvious choice not to use Oracle.
I'm not a database guy, it's a real question.
Boy the line "Six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come" is special. I hope we use the next six year of support to get off of Oracle solutions. (Save the state hundreds of millions of dollars.... yea.
The government people overseeing the project got to keep 100% of their paychecks.
Let's assume those 400 people hired to handle paper were an inferior result, but they couldn't have been too horrible or the state would have been browbeaten into hiring more. So I'm going to spitball that 800 staff at an average of $70K per year each (with all bennies and burdens, they'd probably gross $50K), would cost $56 million a year...or $240 million over 4.2 years, not an indecent lifespan for a major web app these days.
So frankly, what's the point in automating at all, if it's going to be as expensive as a decent manual solution that would have been up and running in 3 months?
Because using open source means you yourself are accountable. If Oregon had done this project with an open source database and it had failed, the government would be the one bearing the blame. Hiring a big-name company to do it means if something goes wrong, the government's butts are covered. They hired a well-known company to do it for them. If the company couldn't do it, then obviously it must be the company's fault!
(I use "the government" here only because it's specific to this case and lets me avoid confusing pronouns. The same thing happens when companies choose Oracle or Microsoft or IBM or any other big name without really doing a serious analysis.)
The government people overseeing the project got to keep 100% of their paychecks.
Yes, but several of the high-level ones lost 100% of their jobs following the debacle, you anti-government troll.
That is all.
Shit, anyone who even googles it should have already known how Oracle fucked up the California DMV job twenty or so years ago.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
But what if the real problem is that nobody really WANTED to sign up? Yeah, yeah, that's probably not the case but it is amusing.
Oracle won't realize they lost the lawsuit until Oregon refuses to accept all that free Oracle software.
Nicely played, Oregon.
John Oliver on Oregon
This is not one of the ones Oliver knocked out of the park. Nor does it actually end "nicely played, Oregon".
This is win-win for Oracle. It is not free software, stupid. You think it is free and put an Oracle database and other software everywhere, and then 6 years later you get stuck with massive tech debt and would need to pay millions to Oracle going forward. I am guessing Ellen Rosenblum is just dumb or sponsored by Oracle.
Oracle writes software that doesn't work ...
Oregon sues Oracle over non-working software
Lawsuit is settled by Oracle giving Oregon more software for free
BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS ORACLE'S SOFTWARE DIDN'T FUCKING WORK IN THE FIRST PLACE
Why the hell would Oregon settle for MORE of the same bullshit that started the lawsuit in the first place!?
Europeans money is worth more
They get more vacation
They get free college
They have free healthcare
They live longer
They have lower infant mortality
They have more holidays
We have been fucked and we argue that the government is screwed up. We screwed up when we let corporations destroy our government.
Letting Larry really get his claws into the state, after one of the most egregious fuck ups Oracle could possibly manage? What the frell is wrong with these people? What the hell happened here, and why did Oregon- like a complete sucker- agree to let themselves be completely swindled for a second time, like a total n00b sucker? The poor people of Oregon, you failed to get software built for yourself in a inglorious fashion, now you are again being taken.
When you make a contract make sure a working product is stipulated. Don't let managers create feature creep. Use OSS.
I'm here in Oregon and have been following this case for years now. I'm profoundly disappointed to see this outcome.
Oracle's defense largely seemed to be that they don't know how to make software, therefor it was not their fault that their software did not work. While anyone that has worked with their products before would probably agree with their assertion, it does make for an interesting argument as justification for completely failing to deliver a working product and doing so late and way over budget.
As far as the 'free' software goes, after Oracle boycotted the State of Oregon and refused to sell any more licenses of their crappy software to us, it finally became obvious to the higher ups that this was not a company we should be in bed with - See http://fortune.com/2016/03/16/oracle-oregon-boycott/. Can you imagine having invested a huge amount of money in multiple projects only to have your database vendor decide they don't actually want to sell you the required license to use their product and that you will have to scrap the whole thing and start over?
While the free software is great in the sense that it will save us some short term money; if we are smart we will use that time to convert as much as humanly possible to PostgreSQL or possibly Enterprise DBs implementation of PostgreSQL with Oracle compatibility. Getting further in bed with a company that has cheated the taxpayers out of so much money in the last couple of years is beyond idiotic.
Me and a few programmer buddies of mine could have built this thing for a couple of million or so, and it would have WORKED.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Is this "Free software" or a Trojan horse?
Oregon you look like a bunch of circus clown who think they just found gold when it's actually just petrified shit.
"They fucked up majorly to the point where we sued them, but then offered us some more of the software they fucked up for free, and we can tie ourselves into them more, so we thought that's a great deal and a good use of taxpayer's money!"
Most contract based negotiations involve determining the performance. I hate Oracle as much as anyone in IT, but playing devils advocate and knowing how IT projects in various governments often present a moving target there's a chance that the government took this offer because the courts may actually find it more in Oracle's favour.
Remember Oracle delivered something. The criteria is not a black and white it works = 100%, it doesn't = 0%.
And then Oregonians just turn around and let the government run even more of their lives. Because we all know, piping money through the government is the pinnacle of efficiency.
morons just got bent over again. 6 years is a tiny investment for Oracle who will likely have such a stranglehold and vendor lockin by the end of those 6 years that they will reap hundreds of millions from the deal. Basically they got raped and agreed as compensation to be repeatedly raped again.
I worked for a while implementing the same Oracle software that Oregon exchange did. My warning would be stay away unless you can bill hourly and you career isnt linked to the success of the projects. I havent seen worse software in ages. It litterally takes three times the ammount of time to do things as in other language, requires personel that cost twice as mich and is extreemly buggy with highly co strai ed functionality. Oregon was right too sue. Their mistake was doubling down on it. I'll never touch it again.
With all that free Oracle software, we can modernize our IT systems like it's 1999. You know, back when Oracle was ... relevant.
At the end of six years of free period, everything in Oregon government establishment, including simple websites will be using Oracle DB & systems, resulting in huge ongoing revenue for Oracle.
You might think the government works for you, but they don't. They work for people in high places. If they 'give' you free health care it means they're going to steal money from someone (probably you) to achieve that 'free healthcare'. Sorry. But if I want health care I'll pay for it myself. I don't need some government forcing it down my throat. While we are at it lets get rid of government schooling. If I want to send my kids to a school I can pay for it myself. If I want to retire I can save up my own damm money and retire with that. If I want to be berried in a coffin I'll save my money for that. Otherwise you can throw my body in a landfill with the other trash. This isn't so hard. We don't need tolls on roads either as all that does is increase the cost of the roads!!!! And when you mandate that 80% of the material in roads be recycled you end up with shitty roads that have to be redone more often and is more environmentally destructive. But guess who benefits? Corporations. No. Lets just end government. End the monopolies. We don't need to grant monopolies to cable companies and such. Let whoever wishes to utilize the right of ways to provide service provide service. It's ridicules all the red tape. if I don't want to get sick from eating out I'll pay attention to which restaurants have poor ratings. If I want to be a safe driver I'll take some driving classes. If I want to be protected for liability I'll pick up some vehicular insurance.
www.freestateproject.org www.freekeene.com www.freetalklive.com
Ok so "software licensing agreements and technical support with an estimated upfront worth of $60 million..." but somehow "six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come"?
The only thing I can think of that paying those 60 million somehow costs the state of Oregon 100's of millions. That's one hell of of an overhead cost! No wonder they couldn't make the website work, for every $1 in insurance premium collected would have costed the state 10's of dollars I guess. Oracle saved them money by forcing them to go with the federal solution.
Maybe it's like with pumping gas in Oregon, they have laws that state that every check made for software licensing must go though a minimum number of bureaucrats and each bureaucrat has a fixed fee for processing the payment.
Or maybe it's the lawyer speak, "the $1 we save today will save billions" which is technically true if we invest that $1 today and the billions saved are in a billion years or so, assuming low risk returns. After all, this statement did come from an Attorney (General).
What's the deal?
You might think the government works for you, but they don't. They work for people in high places. If they 'give' you free health care it means they're going to steal money from someone (probably you) to achieve that 'free healthcare'. Sorry. But if I want health care I'll pay for it myself. I don't need some government forcing it down my throat. While we are at it lets get rid of government schooling. If I want to send my kids to a school I can pay for it myself. If I want to retire I can save up my own damm money and retire with that. If I want to be berried in a coffin I'll save my money for that. Otherwise you can throw my body in a landfill with the other trash. This isn't so hard. We don't need tolls on roads either as all that does is increase the cost of the roads!!!! And when you mandate that 80% of the material in roads be recycled you end up with shitty roads that have to be redone more often and is more environmentally destructive. But guess who benefits? Corporations. No. Lets just end government. End the monopolies. We don't need to grant monopolies to cable companies and such. Let whoever wishes to utilize the right of ways to provide service provide service. It's ridicules all the red tape. if I don't want to get sick from eating out I'll pay attention to which restaurants have poor ratings. If I want to be a safe driver I'll take some driving classes. If I want to be protected for liability I'll pick up some vehicular insurance.
www.freestateproject.org www.freekeene.com www.freetalklive.com
Now wait a minute, you just ranted against insurance, but you want car insurance for yourself?
BTW, don't forget to buy some construction equipment to fix all those roads you drive on, cause nobody else will.
Or maybe you're just happy in your cabin out in the woods. Until Canadia decides to annex the [now undefended by army] USA by force and you have to fight off a professional army.
Sorry, your anarchist fauxtopia just won't work unless your goal is to take the USA back to the middle ages.
The government people overseeing the project got to keep 100% of their paychecks.
And the royalties from the many opportunities of graft that this thing created.
Sorry to tell you buddy, but what you're promoting is anarcho-capitalism, and that is probably worse than anything we have going on right now.
Trying to say that we'd be better off if we just completely de-funded modern infrastructure would be like saying committing suicide would be appropriate to prescribe oneself for a bad migraine.
Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum said in a statement. "The beauty of the deal is that if we choose to take full advantage of the free (software), we are uniquely situated to modernize our statewide IT systems ... "
I'm willing to bet that 99.99% of everything that Oregon does can be done on Postgres. Or if you prefer MySQL or MariaDB or what have you. Unless of course you think they aren't modern.
Six years of unlimited Oracle software and technical support included in the deal will save the state hundreds of millions of dollars in years to come and ends a bitter legal battle
Oracle wins
So this is how they get their business...they F-up and still win. amazing.
My last job was outsourced for pennies on the dollar, guess Oracle will do the same....profit! Way To Go Oracle, you suck!
Anyone who has had to update, maintain or change a mainframe based system where Oracle is involved understands all too well....pathetic.