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AT&T and Comcast Helped Elected Official Write Plan To Stall Google Fiber (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: As the Nashville Metro Council prepares for a final vote to give Google Fiber faster access to utility poles, one council member is sponsoring an alternative plan that comes from ATT and Comcast. The council has tentatively approved a One Touch Make Ready (OTMR) ordinance that would let a single company -- Google Fiber in this case -- make all of the necessary wire adjustments on utility poles itself. Ordinarily, Google Fiber must wait for incumbent providers like ATT and Comcast to send construction crews to move their own wires, requiring multiple visits and delaying Google Fiber's broadband deployment. The pro-Google Fiber ordinance was approved in a 32-7 preliminary vote, but one of the dissenters asked ATT and Comcast to put forth a competing proposal before a final vote is taken. The new proposal from council member Sheri Weiner "call[s] for Google, ATT, Comcast and Nashville Electric Service to create a system that improves the current process for making utility poles ready for new cables," The Tennessean reported last week. "Weiner said ATT and Comcast helped draft the resolution she proposes." Weiner told Ars that she asked ATT and Comcast to propose a resolution. "I told them that I would file a resolution if they had something that made sense and wasn't as drastic as OTMR," Weiner told Ars in an e-mail today, when we asked her what role ATT and Comcast played in drafting the resolution. Weiner said she is insisting on some changes to the resolution, but the proposal (full text) was submitted without those changes. When asked why she didn't put her suggested changes in the version of the resolution published on the council website, Weiner said, "I had them [ATT and Comcast] submit it for me as I was out of town all last week on business (my day job)." Weiner said an edited resolution will be considered by the council during its next meeting. Weiner's plan could stall the OTMR ordinance and -- though it might improve Google Fiber's current situation -- would not provide the quick access to poles sought by Google Fiber and most council members. However, Weiner said she is willing to support OTMR later on if her proposal doesn't result in significant improvements.

84 comments

  1. Criminal behavior by ArtemaOne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unfortunately clearly anti-competitive and manipulative activities like these will never be prosecuted properly. Drafting legislation that negatively affects your competition could be prosecuted under countless existing laws, even so far as insider trading if you made any financial adjustments in advance of the laws you wrote taking effect.

    1. Re:Criminal behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're saying Google is anti-competitive and performing manipulative activities correct? Because this council was about to pass a pro-Google law and one of the council members asked other companies for their input on the matter. They got back to her with a new procedure that would let all of them more easily do stuff with the wires instead of just Google.

    2. Re:Criminal behavior by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I don't read anything wrong with what was done personally. Council member engages stakeholders not represented by original proposal to draft alternate resolution.

      The question really lies in how the two competing resolutions are reconciled.

      This is reality. Everyone wants things the easy way, and it is the city's job in this case to mediate these competing interests.

    3. Re:Criminal behavior by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wrong.

      The actual text of the bill says:
      Upon approval of an Attachment Application by an Owner, Pre-Existing Third Party Users shall allow an Attacher, using Preapproved Contractors and at the Attacherâ(TM)s expense, to perform Make Ready by transferring, relocating, rearranging, or altering the Attachments of any Pre-Existing Third Party User to the extent necessary or appropriate to accommodate the Attacherâ(TM)s Attachment.

      The law is pro-competition, not just pro-Google. Any company that wants to enter the market gets the exact same benefit. Google is mentioned in the summary only because they're the company trying to enter the market right now.

    4. Re:Criminal behavior by uncqual · · Score: 1

      What is illegal about proposing and drafting legislation and asking a politician to carry it forward?

      When you call your councilperson's office and say "People are driving too fast through my neighborhood and putting our kids at risk. Please get the law changed so we can get speed bumps installed on the 300 through 600 blocks of Oak St", what are you doing?

      The summary (of course I didn't RTFAs) doesn't suggest bribery or anything of that nature.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    5. Re:Criminal behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is illegal about proposing and drafting legislation and asking a politician to carry it forward?

      That's not what happened. The politician asked the AT&T and Comcast to write draft legislation.

    6. Re:Criminal behavior by mikeiver1 · · Score: 1

      "...and one of the council members asked other companies for their input on the matter." LOL did you read that before you posted it? I think what you meant to say was that the counsel member that has been in the pocket of the incumbents was told by them to stall the vote and introduce the new bill. AGAIN, this would all be academic if the cities simply owned the last mile and all the players had to pipe their services through the COs where the customer pipes came out of. This is the very bullshit that makes people so fucking pissed at these companies. Internet access is not a hard thing to do and do well. The hard part is fucking the customer so deep and hard and then making the customer think that it feels good!

    7. Re:Criminal behavior by guruevi · · Score: 1

      This is the real reason though: "using Preapproved Contractors and at the Attacher's expense". I can understand the expense being the attacher's but 'pre-approved contractors' sounds like "AT&T/Comcast contractors only"

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    8. Re:Criminal behavior by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The backstory reads as such:
      Google wants to roll out fiber, AT&T and Comcast have received several orders in order to move "their" cables, however most have been outstanding for more than 100 days, AT&T and Comcast are causing nuisances by moving each cable individually and requiring (unnecessary) permits/inspections from the city and/or the electrical service for each move. So basically for every pole you have 5-6 trucks passing by (Comcast, NES, AT&T, NES, Google).

      Google proposed that 1 contractor can do all that in one visit. However, Comcast/AT&T purchased two city council members who brought up legislation that would just maintain the status quo and charge Google for their 'pre-approved contractors' to do the work, the reasons being claimed that AT&T contractors have full rights to any work on a pole due to 'union contracts' and Comcast thinks it would be fair that they stay in charge of 'maintenance' (charge money for losing customers).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    9. Re:Criminal behavior by uncqual · · Score: 2

      What is wrong with that? Surely you don't expect every politician to, without help, personally draft every word of legislation that they propose? No politician can be an expert on the details of computer security, warfare, welfare, medicine, nuclear power, geology, oil drilling, education, global finance, genetics, food safety, space exploration, micro economics, the penal system, economics of healthcare, religion, etc... Of course they seek the assistance of others in crafting the details.

      However, at the end of the day, they have to vote for/against legislation and they are accountable to the voters there -- what's the problem?

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    10. Re:Criminal behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google has no customers, AT&T and Comcast (bad as they are) have paying customers who may experience a disruption if the moving is not done properly. Why shouldn't it be done by approved contractors at Google's expense, instead of some dingbat with a wrench at Google's expense?

    11. Re:Criminal behavior by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      Ah yes, the republican's favorite false equivalence.
      Sorry but private citizens are not and never will be equivalent to private corporations or vice versa and literally NOTHING you conclude from assuming that can ever be anything but completely wrong.
      When citizens try to influence politicians - that's democracy at work and universally a good thing.
      When corporations, any corporations, try to do the same thing - that's plutocracy and universally an evil thing.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    12. Re:Criminal behavior by godefroi · · Score: 1

      Because AT&T and Comcast don't hire dingbats, amirite?

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    13. Re:Criminal behavior by CMYKjunkie · · Score: 1

      What is wrong with that? Surely you don't expect every politician to, without help, personally draft every word of legislation that they propose? No politician can be an expert on the details of computer security, warfare, welfare, medicine, nuclear power, geology, oil drilling, education, global finance, genetics, food safety, space exploration, micro economics, the penal system, economics of healthcare, religion, etc... Of course they seek the assistance of others in crafting the details.

      However, at the end of the day, they have to vote for/against legislation and they are accountable to the voters there -- what's the problem?

      THIS. I lived in Washington DC for 8 years and, while drafting legislation/regulation was not my job, I worked and was acquainted with many who did. What happened in TFA is what happens at the Federal level and -- surely -- lower levels of Government. One friend of mine worked as a staffer to a Congressman who sat on a forestry committee during the Bush years. The logging industry would give the Congressman's office draft legislation that, with some changes, was submitted in the queue to become law. My friend's defense was "They know more about the industry than we do."

      While I can't say this way of running rule making makes me comfortable, I'm just telling you that is the way it is. So, when you vote in this county one of your main considerations (IMHO) should be: is my candidate pro-business or pro-consumer?

    14. Re:Criminal behavior by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      And unions?
      And Liberal Special interest groups?
      And PACs?
      And ......?

      IF you want ONLY citizens to have access to our representatives, and not any "organized" version of advocacy groups, then lets be fair and make apply all forms of advocacy groups (and I would agree with you).

      However, since I rather doubt that you'd object to "citizen advocacy" groups influencing politicians, your choice on which advocacy groups are allowed, and which ones are prohibited is purely arbitrary in nature, based on your political leanings. Corporation are citizen advocacy groups too, you just don't like what they represent.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    15. Re: Criminal behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^^^^ he's right.

    16. Re:Criminal behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll believe a corporation is a person as soon as you execute one. And that's the problem with corporate advocacy groups. Normal individual human being advocacy groups sound fine.

    17. Re:Criminal behavior by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      That is what Google wants us to believe, but it isn't necessarily true. The problem is when something is damaged or incurs latent damage which cannot easily be detected.

      Back in the 80's, many cities allowed cable franchises to "clean up" the telephone poles in order to be able to install their cables and amplifiers. Many of them made a mess of it. Best practices are to have consistent leased zones on the poles and clear spacing/buffer requirements. When that isn't your existing condition and service loops are inadequate to easily move things around, you run into problems.

      Add to that the fact that there is a lot of 3rd and 4th party cables on poles, and you have problems.

      All that said, a competent contractor should be able to move cables around a little while conforming to each company's standards and having all inspections completed without too much pain, where things didn't start off as a jumble.

    18. Re:Criminal behavior by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Do the former, and I'll at least consider the latter.
      Though there is a good reason why it isn't fair to do that to do that universally - since not all advocacy groups are alike. Some represent the views of all their members, some are top-down hierarchies.
      I would limit the capacity to influence policy to groups which are run democratically - by everybody involved. So corporations are out but cooperations are in. Some unions are out and others are in. PACS are mostly out, so are some special interest groups while others are in.

      Unless the group can show a vote tally of every member and employee that they agree on the issue they are lobbying on - they don't get to lobby on it. Even a corporation would get to lobby on an issue - if every worker, shareholder and executive all participated in an anonymous vote and agreed to lobby the issue, and it must be one-man-one-vote, NOT one-share-one-vote.

      Do you really think the average factory workers is in FAVOUR of the factory they work for lobbying to make it legal not to have fire escapes ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    19. Re:Criminal behavior by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I don't think Google would have a problem if the contractors were truly independent and regulated by the City, you can just give them a contract, they'll hire and train a bunch of people and get the job done. Right now, that's not the way it is nor is it what Comcast or AT&T are proposing. Many business people have proposed similar things all over the world (instead of breaking open the street 3 times, how about you let a third party do it once, you all do your work and we'll close it down again) but the incumbents don't want that, they want to be able to point at the newcomers and blame them for 'unnecessary construction work'.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    20. Re:Criminal behavior by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Most of the reason companies avoid the joint-trench projects unless they are forced into it is that they cannot control schedule and funding. There is no means to accelerate or decelerate the project once it is given the go-ahead, unless all parties agree. Unless a single party is responsible for the joint-trench and sells capacity back, it is very hard to make it work.

      It worked well in the 00's with metro fiber because you literally had four competitors trying to install conduits and manholes at the same time to many of the exact same places, as quickly as possible, and with investor money that was quickly lost.

      Now, you have AT&T reacting to a project by Time Warner reacting to getting lapped by Level 3... and the happy clanking of trenchplate for a generation...

    21. Re:Criminal behavior by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      In this case, it isn't even like it is some kind of backroom deal (which does happen sometimes as well). This politician is being entirely above board and open about this. It makes sense that the people with equipment on the poles should be involved, it is just a matter of negotiating a compromise that is the best for all involved.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    22. Re:Criminal behavior by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      So, you believe corporations are person's now? There is such a thing as a corporate death sentence, it just isn't used very often, just as the death sentence isn't used on humans very often.

      But, what you typed did not in any way disagree with what the previous poster said. Michael suggested that if you hold corporations to that standard, so should Unions and other citizen groups. He also said that corporations are groups of citizens, which is a fact even if you don't want to believe it.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    23. Re:Criminal behavior by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Name a single advocacy group that represents the views of ALL of their members. I can't even say the NRA represents the views of all its members, but I can't imagine what group you are thinking of that does.

      Corporations are run democratically. The shareholders are the members, the employees sometimes, but not often get a vote. But that is no different than many organizations. The corporation I work for hands out stock to the employees along with their 401k match, so technically, I have a vote in everything that my company does. Why you feel it should be an equal vote for everyone I can't imagine though, I don't have as much of a stake in the company as the larger shareholders, they have much more invested than I do.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    24. Re:Criminal behavior by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Nice strawman, like the hat.
      I specifically defined what the proper criteria for a legitimate advocacy group would be: an anonymous one-man-one-vote democratic agreement on every issue it lobbies for.
      I never said the votes had to be unanimous - but at least it must be decided democratically.

      >Corporations are run democratically.
      Bwahahahahahah.
      One share one vote is not democracy - it's the very definition of plutocracy. But I suppose considering the side you take, I shouldn't be surprized that you don't know the difference. I specifically stated that for a corporation to have a legitimate lobby right it needs a one-man-one-vote election on the issue, with votes for workers.

      > Why you feel it should be an equal vote for everyone I can't imagine though
      Because that's how democracy works and this is not a vote specific to the company. This is a vote about lobbying the government to pass laws and policies that will affect all of society. You can't pretend those are similar situations. You are not voting on corporate management issues, you are not busy safeguarding your investment. While you may be doing all that as well - you are now doing it in a way that forces all the rest of society to, including the non-shareholding employees of your company to help you do so. That's an entirely different kettle of fish. That requires a democratic process.

      >I don't have as much of a stake in the company as the larger shareholders, they have much more invested than I do.
      And when it's a vote about matters internal to the company there is some logic to that (cooperations are still a far more democratic setup, and as a result consistently better managed and because the people who actually do the work get all the profit - they actually raise quality of life far better for workers. The world's largest cooperation now has over 80-thousand worker-owners running businesses in some 40 different industries and is the single largest employer in Spain, and in Argentina cooperations are the largest employers as well collectively, there are over 20-thousand, mostly formed when the economy collapsed in 2007. The workers just kept showing up running the abandoned businesses which corporate owners could not keep afloat themselves. In the same economic situation where the corporations failed - they succeeded, and because they all paid well they all had a steady supply of customers from each other).

      But that is a lesser matter because either way it's about how the company is governed internally which is not something anybody outside has a stake in. The moment the company gets political however they give everybody a stake because immediately they are affecting everybody. The most directly and immediately affected are the employees. They are the ones who get screwed if companies lobby governments to ban union shops. They are the ones who die if companies lobby for reductions in health and safety standards. They deserve an equal say in that decision.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  2. Perhaps all new legislation by stillpixel · · Score: 1

    Should have to include a statement that the legislator wrote the legislation completely on their own without the assistance of any parties concerned in the legislation.
    There should be a stipulation that if they are found to be lying on the in the statement they have to spend 1 year in jail.

    1. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 year only to be let out in 15 days for good behavior.

      A better proposal would be life without parole. Maybe other politicians will take notice then. If not, they can go to jail for life too.

    2. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by sexconker · · Score: 1

      How about they spend one day dead?

    3. Re: Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't work. One was shot in the head but to no avail ...

    4. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the case of corporate-drafted legislation, six weeks in jail for all board members would do it.

    5. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, just a waste of taxpayer dollars. Instead bar them from holding elected office office for 10 years, fine them 1 year's full salary plus benefits and seize their pension.

    6. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by sconeu · · Score: 1

      That only works for tax purposes, and only if you're like a galactic megastar like Hotblack Desiato.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    7. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have long advocated that each piece of proposed legislation, at all levels of government, have attribution attached, detailing who wrote what parts of the bill. It would have the added benefit of exposing the sleazeballs who attach seemingly-unrelated amendments to bills sailing through.

    8. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have long advocated that each piece of proposed legislation, at all levels of government, have attribution attached, detailing who wrote what parts of the bill. It would have the added benefit of exposing the sleazeballs who attach seemingly-unrelated amendments to bills sailing through.

      Legislative SVN Blame? I love it!

      Actually, why not?

    9. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Pascoea · · Score: 2

      I don't mean to be an ass, but that doesn't make any sense. Do you REALLY want someone who knows nothing about the industry under consideration to be writing laws about that industry? No single person is able to know enough about a subject to be able to effectively legislate it, it has to be a group effort. And chances are, the people that are smart enough about a subject probably works in that industry. If you want to know about telephone poles, and the best way to hang cables from them, are you going to talk to a politician or a company that hangs cables on telephone poles for a living? It is 100% necessary to get input from the industry you are trying to regulate.

      Not saying there aren't problems to solve, because there are many, but you can't exclude the industry from their own regulation. But I would tend to agree, a politician submitting a document that they (or their staff) didn't author or even bother to review should be barred from office.

    10. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Do you REALLY want someone who knows nothing about the industry under consideration to be writing laws about that industry?

      Actually, I would prefer that Government stop writing laws to regulate such in this manner at all. The Telephone Poles are granted special rights (right of way) and operate usually in some sort of Franchise or Lease arraignment. As such, it would be easy to write a law that was fair to all parties.

      OR

      We start boring horizontally and burying the cables in conduit underground. Since we no longer need to hang wires, why not fix the problem right?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    11. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Option 2 is expensive - Nashville sits on a lot of rock.

    12. Re:Perhaps all new legislation by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      So how do we regulate the horizontal boring? Or do we just let it be a free-for-all, and hope for the best?

      Not all regulation is bad regulation. Without regulation you end up with this.

  3. Did Google help write OTMR by tomhath · · Score: 2

    The council has tentatively approved a One Touch Make Ready (OTMR) ordinance that would let a single company -- Google Fiber in this case -- make all of the necessary wire adjustments on utility poles itself

    Lobbyists help write legislation all the time. I'd be surprised if Google wasn't in on the original ordinance.

    1. Re:Did Google help write OTMR by youngone · · Score: 1
      This is correct.

      When George Bush II was challenged about the oil companies writing his energy policies, he said "Ya gotta dance with those what brung ya".

      This article explains quite well.

    2. Re: Did Google help write OTMR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When asked about the Iraq War, he said, "Hey diddly hoo ha, my pants are full".

  4. Newsflash! Our elected officials are for sale by Snotnose · · Score: 2

    Color me anything but surprised.

    1. Re: Newsflash! Our elected officials are for sale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When someone donates to a politicians campaign or charities to increase their public relations and get votes, don't be surprised when the politician allows them to write the laws. Though normally, the politician should go through the process of "reading" it and telling the public why it is good for them. If citizens heard that a politician is just letting corps write laws without reviewing them, the veil of the mushroom kingdom is pulled back some more.

  5. Don't rush to conclusion by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

    By no means am I a sympathizer with AT&T or Comcast but is it really a bad idea to get their input? In my opinion, she was doing her job by looking for options before coming to a final conclusion.

    It's easy to bash the incumbents but let's not just hand the keys to the city over to Google just yet.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    1. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's the problem: AT&T and Comcast want make the process of adding new cables to be a painful as possible for outside by using existing regulation. This is known as regulatory capture. It is not in AT&T's or Comcast's best interest to be helpful.

      Seriously, this is like asking the owner of a car dealership their opinion on Tesla selling directly to people.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by PMuse · · Score: 1

      So long as it is disclosed during the debate before the vote that Plan B is the AT&T/Comcast plan. So long as the vote is not manipulated. So long as discussing Plan B is not, itself, just a stalling tactic. Then there is nothing wrong with Plan B being heard.

      Next step: the council votes.

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    3. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      It's easy to bash the incumbents but let's not just hand the keys to the city over to Google just yet.

      Don't think of it as handing the keys to the city over to Google. Rather, see it for what it is - mandating the transfer of the keys from AT&T and Comcast over to Google. And after all, the municipality owns said utility poles, so it's their decision. Besides, as much as I hate and distrust Google, I don't believe they would do anything during their work on the poles to purposely disrupt AT&T or Comcast service. But I can certainly see AT&T and Comcast putting the screws to Google in any way possible, including 'accidental sabotage'.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    4. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Problem is these delaying tactics will simply shift fibre installs from one location to another. Any business when presented with this tactic of delay will simply resort to starting as many projects as possible, ignore the delayed ones and simply commence the approved ones, looking back at the delayed ones when it is their turn again (they will have a set maximum investment level per period and hence simply shift to alternate locations as priority). So specific regions will suffer as a result of corrupt corporate funded officials, but the overall install is not delayed.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Why the disclosure? If Plan B makes more sense than Plan A, let those voting for Plan B explain why they did so to those they represent or risk recall or losing in the next election.

      The source of an idea doesn't make any difference -- the idea is what matters. When code reviewing code for correctness, style, etc, why do you care who wrote it?

      This is why peer reviews of articles are ideally blind - the reviewer doesn't know who wrote the paper so the authorship can't influence them, just the technical details of the paper (of course, even then, reviewers can often make a pretty good guess at the primary authors just based on content and direction).

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    6. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by non0score · · Score: 1

      And before you know it, you didn't gain any market traction because you can't drum up support for 5 houses/city, and you blew through $10B+ just having contractors "ready and waiting" in 100 cities. It's not zero cost to start the effort in a city, you know?

    7. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1

      It's easy to bash the incumbents but let's not just hand the keys to the city over to Google just yet.

      They're not handing over the keys. OTMR is a normal part of wiring poles. It happens ALL the time. Google is asking for something that Comcast and AT&T themselves use in other areas for the same reasons: OTMR works and everybody wins.

      Unless you are an AT&T or Comcast and you don't want a competitor coming in. Then suddenly it becomes a big deal.

      --
      Sig for hire.
    8. Re: Don't rush to conclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But Sheri Weiner said OTMR was "drastic". Are you suggesting she's talking out of her fundamental misapprehension?

    9. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      You do not there is a massive difference between planning and government approval and doing the actual work. Where delays are expected you only do planning and work through the approvals and delays. Once you when you can start, you then start the prep and not before. If the delay is long enough you redo your plans to suit. Even if you end up with too many approvals, you simply extend that approval over time whilst you delay the start for as many years as necessary. It makes no sense to allow delays to control you layout schedule as percentage complete, you manage those delays and adjust your plans to early east approvals, it also promotes rapid approval ie first to approve gets done first, last to approve gets done last.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    10. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by sabbede · · Score: 1
      Not only is it not a bad idea, it's a practice that's commonplace, old, and available to any individual constituent or lobby. Lawmakers solicit and accept input from everybody and anybody. They're also lazy and tend to lack expertise, so they'll take help where they can get it.

      Seeking input from impacted parties isn't just convenient for lawmakers, its damn good practice. How it turns out varies.

    11. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by sabbede · · Score: 1

      In this specific case perhaps, but in general the practice is a good one.

    12. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But these lawmakers should be pro-Google and NOT consider any alternatives in this particular case. They should not listen to anyone but Google.

    13. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I make this like painting a house. Painting a house is easy, and quick. The prep work is tedious and takes a long long time.

      The problem with Government involvement, it is much of the Prep work. Submitting of plans, approval (and revision) of plans, permits, objections by special interests groups, more revisions, permits expire, newly created permits now needed requiring resubmitting of plans for approval. 18 different government entities all vying for a piece of the action. All for Dick Waving politicians to say "We did this thing, you should be happy".

      It just doesn't slow down progress, it often halts it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:Don't rush to conclusion by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I have worked through many government approvals, just get your information right, hold personal discussions, maintain a good rapport, check with them for any difficulties the application is causing, establish and maintain a good social relationship, use like people for the approval process (people like the people you are communicating with), never rush them but do check regularly to see whether they need any additional information. I always found the prep to be pretty easy and pretty smooth once you establish and maintain good, personal communications channels. When you go in with negative ideas, you will produce negative outcomes. Keep in mind they often have to deal with extremely arrogant small and medium business people all of the time and that really does impact them over time, to get a better response from them, you have to work at it and develop those skills. Bottles of good wine are often the best lubricant for a smooth approval process, delivered every time you get a positive response, together with a polite thank you.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. News Flash by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

    News Flash: Monopolies buy politicians to protect their monopoly! Masses shocked! Film at 11.

    Seriously though, this is no surprise. These monopolies have been making money hand over fist for decades on delivering Cable TV or phone service to a captive audience. They now see their internet business slowly cannibalizing their cable TV business (analog cable is already dead here, there is no reason all content cannot be streamed online) or completely eliminating their phone service ($120 for Ooma and never pay another $25/mo phone bill? Done deal.)

    These companies have an outmoded 15 plus year old built out infrastructure for net access that they paid for with government grants and they have been raking in the profits all those years with minimal overhead. Now they see Google fiber and they know that they will actually have to compete or they will be completely out of business. However, monopolistic interference is often easier and cheaper than competition. Sheri Weiner needs to have some FBI agents come by for a visit and open a corruption investigation into her. Letting a monopoly write your legislation should be illegal.

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    1. Re:News Flash by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      " Letting a monopoly write your legislation should be illegal."
      .
      .
      Actually, letting any single entity or individual write your legislation ought to be illegal. Especially if they have a vested interest or a conflict of interest.

      --
      C|N>K
    2. Re:News Flash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FBI you say?

      I happen to be aware of a local office.

    3. Re:News Flash by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Letting a monopoly write your legislation should be illegal.

      Government sanction franchise agreement holder.

      Remove the need for Franchise agreements and the problem of "monopoly" goes away.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  7. Big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Google causes an outage of other services, they're on the hook for the outage. It's the other company's right to take responsibility for moving their services on the right of way. This issue doesn't pass the sniff test at all. Non issue.

  8. Bah, just do it the Chattanooga way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have your power company hire Adelphia to do it.

    Then you can get 10 gig service in your house.

    Anybody want to rent a room? Barn? Chickenhut?

  9. Who's on first? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plan G: Help us get ready to use the poles we need in 2 weeks or we'll do it ourselves.

    Plan T: We'll fix up to 125 per week. If we don't do it within 30 days we'll pay you $500 per pole per month.

    Google says they need access to 44k poles in Nashville. 44k/125 is about 7 years.
    Either Goog is inflating their needs or T is dragging their feet in plain sight.

    1. Re:Who's on first? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      You are assuming every pole needs work, and that is probably not even close to being correct.

      Also, I would add a condition to the T rule, that if they even LOOK at one of their poles, they have to provide mitigation as requested at that time, and that it doesn't count against whatever artificial limit they place (I would increase those too). Meaning that if they are dragging their feet for google, that they have to drag their feet for themselves as well.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  10. Cry me a river by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody wrote a plan to stop you in Portland, OR. You did that all yourself, Google. You also took the money and ran, collecting untold sums in tax and fee breaks before you split.

    1. Re:Cry me a river by andrewa · · Score: 1

      Portlander here also. Google still keep hinting that they're bringing fiber to Portland, but after... what, three years since they made their announcement, I'm still here paying Comcast....

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
  11. Imagine how it would work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comcast would claim they can't move *their* wire until ATnT move theirs under this bill, because ATnT run the same poles.
    ATnT would claim Comcast needs to move their wire first under this bill, as ATnT cannot move Comcasts wire out of the way as they move ATnTs.
    So they'd be at (fake) standoff, wherever more than one provider has wires running.

    They could delay rollout of competitors for years or even decades with tricks like this.

    1. Re:Imagine how it would work by cboslin · · Score: 2

      and they do, do this....

      Worked in the Telco industry, we had $15,000.00 Network General Sniffers at each end of a T1 to prove beyond doubt, that the line was cut and it was the Telco's fault.

      They denied it 100% of the time, until you produced logs from both Network General Sniffers and the problem was them and not you...every single time...without fail.

      You are 100% correct that they will do this to prevent, thwart or at least slow down competition.

      The smart move is for Sheri Weiner to lose her seat at the table, she is obviously completely controlled by the industry attempting to prevent the citizens of Nashville from getting FTTH.

      Pretty typical of every city that attempts to put in Fiber To The Home, the industry sues and loses at least twice if not three times, but if the citizens push through it, they get Fiber and lower Cable rates to boot.

      It is the only way Cable companies ever lower their prices, because its the only way they get true competition.

    2. Re:Imagine how it would work by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      I had a fiber connection installed to a private school. We bought the connection from a local non-profit that was built for providing fast, affordable Internet connections to schools, libraries, and non profits. The non-profit ISP had a fiber corridor running right down the street at the front of the property that took about two years for them to clear all the red tape for installation. The proverbial "last mile" was about 150 yards of driveway between the street to the school. There were existing utility poles running down the drive, owned by the local power company. With only power, one telephone cable, and one CATV cable on those poles and no other customers were served using those cables, there was no justifiable reason for the fiber not to simply be run on those poles. The power company either denied access or asked a ridiculous attachment fee. The ISP had a boring company come in to get the fiber from the street to our front door.

    3. Re:Imagine how it would work by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I am not sure why we are still attaching wires to poles, when we have horizontal boring equipment that can drill and place conduit underground, and avoid or reduce stupid problems caused by drunk drivers and squirrels.

      Yes, I am sure it costs more, but laying fiber / copper in sealed conduit seems like a much better long term plan.

      That being said, I am wondering why they aren't just removing the franchise agreements for these companies, and building out their own fiber plant, bringing it back to a COLO that can offer any company access to any house via the "open road" of the now "last mile" fiber.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:Imagine how it would work by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Data obtained from Maryland utility
      companies indicate that constructions costs for overhead utilities range from $0.62 million per mile to $1.02 million
      per mile and underground comparable service ranges from $3.3 million to $8.3 million per mile.

      From: http://www.roads.maryland.gov/... (pdf)

      It is a bit more expensive...

      I did find this line pretty funny though:

      Underground installations reduce vehicular
      crashes with poles and possible fatalities, reduce the exposure to electromagnetism fields reducing health hazards,
      improve the aesthetics of neighborhoods and may increase the assessment value of the nearby properties.

      Since when did we prove that electromagnetism causes any health hazards, and when did burying somehow start mitigating these issues? Perhaps it is more about perception, but that line is utter crap.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  12. An even more simple solution by bl968 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Eminent domain all the polls in Nashville.

    Create the Nashville Telecommunication Services a city government ran agency/non-profit corporation to handle all maintenance and wiring on the poles.

    All companies who wish to use them simply pays 1/#ofproviders of the total maintenance cost for the poles.

    So 1 Company pays 100%
    2 Companies pays 50%
    3 Companies pays 33% etc

    The more companies using the poles the cheaper the poles are for each company doing so.

    --
    "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
    1. Re:An even more simple solution by bl968 · · Score: 1

      Err poles not polls, gotta love phone autocorrect..

      --
      "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 51230 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; Setec Astronomy)"
    2. Re:An even more simple solution by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      If you're gonna do that, you might as well just pull the fiber to each house and end the Franchise agreements to ATT and Comcast. Pull to a COLO facility and offer any / all service providers to provide service to as many customers as they can contract with. Charge a maintenance fee for maintaining poles and fiber as needed based on usage.

      End the monopoly at the last mile.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  13. Drastic must have special meaning in Tenn by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1

    OTMR is done ALL the time, all over the US and probably in other countries. It's not drastic. It's NORMAL.

    You know, a word that means the opposite of drastic. Normal. A word that means, well, normal.

    AT&T and Comcast NORMALLY have little to no problem with OTMR except well, in this case, a competitor they don't want is the one who needs to do a lot of OTMR. And then suddenly the thing everybody has done for years is drastic.

    Riiiight. Nothing fishy going in here. They just, you know, faxed it over, while the rep was out of town. Perfectly drastic. I mean, normal.

    --
    Sig for hire.
    1. Re:Drastic must have special meaning in Tenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even with OTMR, installation of all the wires will take 16 months or more at 625 poles/month.
      20 poles/day is slow.

      If it takes 20 minutes/pole, you should be able to get 3 done per hour per truck.
      Use 2 trucks 8 hours/day and you should be able to do about 1440 poles/month.

      I know NES, Comcast, and AT&T have more than 2 trucks amongst them.

  14. Is that the "cover your ass" version? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Because more likely it's "AT&T and Comcast bribed politician to push legislation they want".

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. Are we surprised? by Mistakill · · Score: 1

    The US Government along with help from the RIAA/MPAA offered to help NZ write their changes to copyright law a few years back

  16. Interesting priorities for an elected official by Stolpskott · · Score: 1

    So, an elected official is either approached by an AT&T/Comcast lobby group or approaches them, and she then allows that lobby group to submit legislative proposals to the council in her name because (paraphrasing somewhat) "she was too busy doing other stuff to make time to do it herself".
    You know, I recall a few British and European politicians doing that over the last 15-20 years. One example, the "Cash for Questions" scandal in the 1990's... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    It was labelled Corruption, and resulted in the end of a few political careers.

  17. Break these companies up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is too much concentration of power in the cable/Internet/telephone companies, to the point where writing laws to keep out competition is too easy. There should not be any duopolies for Internet access. Instead you should have a dozen options, so you can get the best price and service. Time to take the Last Mile away from Corporate America.

  18. take turns? by Fuzi719 · · Score: 1

    So does this mean Marsha Blackburn has to take turns with Sheri Weiner servicing AT&T and Comcast? Which one gets to swallow?

  19. So, since laws don't apply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will the firing squad be organized? Fines don't work. Jail time doesn't happen... not much else left, is there?