Slashdot Mirror
More Gig Economy Workers Can Now Get Paid On Demand (bloomberg.com)
The gig economy is built on people offering their services on demand. Now more of them will have the option of getting paid just as quickly, reports Bloomberg. From the report: Care.com Inc., Instacart Inc., Postmates Inc. and several other marketplace providers will soon start giving workers the chance to cash out their earnings immediately, instead of waiting for the usual weekly deposit. That's because Stripe Inc., the payment processing service that underpins many of the on-demand companies, will introduce the feature to all customers for a fee. Quick cash is a big draw for workers. Stripe originally built a version of instant payouts at the request of Lyft Inc., the largest U.S. ride-hailing app behind Uber. Lyft began offering same-day pay to its drivers in December. Since then, Stripe has processed $500 million in instant payments for Lyft, and half of all driver payouts now go through that feature, the companies said. "It shows us how valuable this product is to drivers," said Lachy Groom, Stripe's cards lead.
What is the fee? Is this the online equivalent of paycheck cashing services or payday loans? Is there any regulation of this fee?
When I do "gig work" (which is really just working as a contractor), I give my client an invoice and they have a reasonable time to pay, or they can pay me on the spot with cash or check, or whatever. I don't see why I need to pay someone to get in the middle of that.
Gig economy is ultimately about absolving corporate responsibility and offloading traditional costs of employment on society while retaining control of the profits and money flow.
Historically, corporations were responsible for worker well-being. Work accidents, unemployment insurance, disability and illness, old age benefits were all part of the pay package. This was fought for and won by unions during early industrial age (aka the robber-baron age). Over past 30 years corporations fought hard to reverse these gains. First, pensions were absolved. Now, with this gig economy the rest of protections are being removed. We already have undischargable student dept.
At this rate, we will be back to debt slavery, compelled work, and company towns in another decade or so. Only this time it will be "gig economy" and "enabled entrepreneurship" or some other PR BS.
They've already failed. People fall for get-rich-quick schemes all the time I guess.
Downsides of a global economy. If there are workers that will work for peanuts elsewhere, and politicians work for the big corps, it only makes sense that Americans must give up a lot.
Gig a bit or Gig a byte
and is it 10^9 or 2^30
Doesn't this really just show how poorly the drivers are doing? Why would anyone pay a fee to get their money now instead of at the end of the week or month? Because they have absolutely no money! Also reinforces the poverty by taking the money from people who have no choice but to pay up.
Gig economy is ultimately about absolving corporate responsibility and offloading traditional costs of employment on society while retaining control of the profits and money flow. Historically, corporations were responsible for worker well-being. Work accidents, unemployment insurance, disability and illness, old age benefits were all part of the pay package. This was fought for and won by unions during early industrial age (aka the robber-baron age). Over past 30 years corporations fought hard to reverse these gains. First, pensions were absolved. Now, with this gig economy the rest of protections are being removed. We already have undischargable student dept. At this rate, we will be back to debt slavery, compelled work, and company towns in another decade or so. Only this time it will be "gig economy" and "enabled entrepreneurship" or some other PR BS.
Hit the nail on the head, and it practically disgusts me that those who find little or no value with traditional costs and benefits (mainly due to lack of experience, ignorance, or both) are practically championing the "gig economy".
It's like watching someone demand every online service for free, and then watch them bitch and moan about a lack of privacy, failing to understand that they sold their privacy soul in order to avoid any material cost.
TL; DR - Ignorance always comes at a price.
The pensions didn't do anything wrong. They were dissolved, not absolved.
See also student debt, not student dept.
Great post though. I agree 100%.You are obviously a person who "gets it" as young people say today.
Is it just me or are we moving towards the movie "In Time"? Now we get paid daily for our daily bread ... er time. Just a few advances with regards to ageing and we'll be all set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Silence is a state of mime.
I want my money and that reatard stalker dead as a rock. Oh, BTW... Wordpress is for retard developers. The API allows the browser from any reader to turn your PC into a Tor server.
If anyone wants to see how well those gig economy workers are doing overall, here's a perfect example. Admittedly it's an optional service, but the fact that they can offer someone a fee-based service to access their pay immediately doesn't paint the picture of happy carefree workers.
Check cashing places and payday loan companies are other examples of companies making money off other peoples' bad situations. If your credit sucks so badly that you can't open a bank account, helpful businesses like this will happily cash that check for you...for a price. Low-wage employers are also doing stuff like putting employee pay on a debit card loaded with extra fees to access the funds. Most of the big retailers like supermarkets, Walmart, etc. don't write paper checks to employees anymore, and present this as the only option if you can't get a checking account. Even food stamp and welfare recipients, the people who are most likely to not be able to make good financial decisions, are having their benefits paid out electronically.
I think the gig economy cheerleaders will come around to championing stable employment when traditional employers figure out a way to treat their entire workforce like this.
It's not just that the protections are being removed - so are the capital costs and the recurring costs for consumables (tires, fuel, etc), as well as "plant maintenance," insurance, etc. Unlike regular contractors, you can't negotiate price, you can't control the schedule for when a task has to be completed by putting more or fewer resources into it, etc. Uber drivers are not contractors, and the Uber gig economy is a lie.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
You can't replace a driver and their car working locally with one working in Bangalore. If the only way to avoid a global race to the bottom is trade tariffs, bring them on.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
That will be replaced by driverless cars. But assuming you gave a better example, yes, there are some jobs that can't be easily replaced by some guy in Bangalore, but many jobs can be replaced. And who's to say he'll stay in Bangalore. He'll come here on a H1-B.
Centuries ago, "free" laborors (not slaves or similarly "bound") were paid daily.
Even today, street-corner "day laborers" who aren't working through an agency typically get paid daily.
Most real-world independent contractors negotiate their own pay schedules with their clients. Just go to Craigslist's "gigs" or similar areas and you will see what I mean.
The difference with the modern "app-driven gig economy" is that 1) there are middle-men, and 2) enough people don't mind waiting to be paid that middle-men who delay payments are still very successful.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I believe that is the plan. Look at Wallyworld. To compensate for the lack of benefits they offer employees and the low pay scales given the economies they operate in the US, they champion getting their employees on state and federal benefits programs (so they don't have to shell out any extra "profit")...most multi-nationals like this have been really pushing things lower over the past decade.
Now, before anyone gets antsy and says something like "well the employees don't have degrees" or something like that - while that may be true in assorted cases, use a little knowledge and wisdom and look at the company's history...they USED to be very supportive of their employees and offered many benefits; and let's not forget that, during that time, their employees had FEWER academic qualifications than they do now. Like with McDonald's just axing 70 US accountants for H1B's (must be hard to find US accountants) over the past week or so, it's now entirely about stuffing as much green in the pocket as possible - knowing that they are setting fire to the very ship they had been riding for their past growth and success.
You can't replace a driver and their car working locally with one working in Bangalore.
You might be surprised. Many aircraft are flown by wire, and surgeons have performed remote surgery through an Internet connection. Likewise, if it turns out that engineers cannot make a completely autonomous taxi safe enough for city driving, having someone in Bangalore take the digital wheel might end up being enough.
... the more fragile it becomes.
Hanjin - a major korean shipping corp recently gone bankrupt - has massive containerships standing at sea, not allowed to run into harbours because the harbour authorities are afraid they won't see their fees. As a result, companies relying on their shipments done with Hanjin are on the brink of bankruptcy, because they can't deliver. And on it goes down the foodchain.
This is what happens if you cut it too thin and expect dirt-cheap stuff and services everywhere, every time and all the time. Same with Uber, Lyft, MyHammer and now this. This sort of race for the bottom line will end up with deflation and eventually a lot of companies and individuals going out of business.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
This was fought for and won by unions during early industrial age
Odd that you bring that up since the main force behind Uber and Lyft is the artificial price of taxi service brought on by those same unions. People blame politicians for the regulations, but who do you think owns those politicians?
First, pensions were absolved.
You are far better off with a 401k or IRA than a pension.
Undischargeable student debt started when the government took over/began backing student loans. With Obamacare they now back over 90%. A source to keep Obamacare "revenue neutral" was interest payments on student loans.
As for all the additional employee benefits, Obamacare dumped a whole lot more on businesses with over 49 employees. I would even guess those rules are so overwhelming that if Uber drivers were employees, the company would go under instantly if they were required to provide those benefits for all the drivers.
So two of your main complaints are from Obamacare itself. I'm not entirely sure what you are complaining about. You all begged for Obamacare and act like there were going to be no consequences for it when you were told there would be. You may have missed people telling you these things because you were too busy yelling at them that they are racists and that was the only reason to oppose Obamacare, but here you are making valid points against it.
Elections have consequences. Perhaps you should listen to people with different view points instead of yelling names at them. You might learn something and avoid problems like this in the future.
"option of getting paid just as quickly, "
"will introduce the feature to all customers for a fee"
Translation: option of getting paid less
Don't forget that in some cities there are also strict government limits on how many taxis can operate.
The people running these companies are numpties. Eventually someone will set up the 'Uber Strike' app. Workers will then wait until a really bad time for said companies (say, 1am on new years day for Uber or Lyft) and then all strike en-mass at no notice unless said company agrees to pay 50% premium rates for that shift. Eventually you could automate all this so gig workers can agree on a demand, and then issue strikes in an extremely efficient way.
Even more stupidly for these gig companies, tax laws in most countries require these contractors to be able to work for competitors to ensure they don't become employees, so workers could run zero-sum strikes, where they just refuse to work for one company until said company meets their demands.
Employee benefits were the flip side of a social compromise where labour lost their ability to hold a company's feet to the fire 'just because' in exchange for companies not being able to exploit their workers 'just because'. I suspect these gig companies will find out very soon that organised labour is quite capable of playing the free market game if that is what they are so keen on.
But no one would EVER do tha... oh, right.
[o]nly this time it will be "gig economy" and "enabled entrepreneurship" or some other PR BS.
I think the term you're looking for is UBI.
I can't believe the shit going on with this right now. The trial balloons in media and government. It's like the folks at Davos and the G8, having figured out a way to fuck humanity almost to death, needed to dream up a way to fuck everyone still harder. Voila: the UBI - slavery, pitched as liberty.
Work only 30 hours! Spend more time doing the things you love. Get a "Guaranteed Income (TM)" from the benevolent elite, with enough to "live off" plus a little extra. Until the requirement is 35 hours. Then 45. Then 55.
But the private economy is wrecked. Automation. Offshoring. Too big to fail banks got bigger. Congressional committee something something. No one charged, ever. So... even if you don't want to participate, you're going to end up needing to, assuming you want to do things like eat.
And over the course of the short 10/15 years it will take for the population to become dependent on UBI, the legal and social framework compelling participation will be laid out: Sorry citizen, everyone has to participate in UBI for UBI work. So if you don't want to work your 60 hours, you'll need to find a job in the (now collapsed) private sector - working 70 hours, which will make you more money.
But you'll need to pay your UBI Non-participation Penalty. So maybe 75 hours.
It's like watching someone demand every online service for free, and then watch them bitch and moan about a lack of privacy, failing to understand that they sold their privacy soul in order to avoid any material cost.
Or people demanding software and music be free then bitch and moan when the people who produced the items go after them for not paying for the product because of a failure to understand the material costs involved in producing the items.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Don't forget that in some cities there are also strict government limits on how many taxis can operate.
What part of "People blame politicians for the regulations, but who do you think owns those politicians?" did you not understand?
Paying a "convenience fee" for a more timely paycheck (or any fee in order to just get paid) is very likely PATENTLY ILLEGAL.
Unfortunately, I am not a labor law expert, but numerous work-today-paid-today companies have gotten in trouble for charging their employees fees for the privilege of getting paid.
Anyone here ever get a deduction from their paycheck for direct deposit? Likely no. And if you did you would have recourse to sue the company for those fees.
Here's a lawsuit that jumped out at me:
http://laborreadylawsuit.com/
Laborready got hit for the practice of charging a fee to use their cash dispensing machine in order to get paid... several times.
Specifically: Unlawfully deducting wages for using the cash dispensing machines (unlawful deduction of wages and unlawful discount of wages).
I am sure there are many MANY other lawsuits.
It's like watching someone demand every online service for free, and then watch them bitch and moan about a lack of privacy, failing to understand that they sold their privacy soul in order to avoid any material cost. Or people demanding software and music be free then bitch and moan when the people who produced the items go after them for not paying for the product because of a failure to understand the material costs involved in producing the items.
For the small fish in the music pond, this is absolutely unfair. That said, it's a bit hard for Joe Consumer to grasp the concept of paying the artist as the music industry continues to churn out obnoxious millionaires that relish in demonstrating just how rich they are in the most narcissistic way possible.
Not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out why it's hard for some to grasp the concept of properly rewarding the artist.
Charging people money to get their money they earned?
This isn't an innovation, it's just a new style of advance loan, like ripoff payday loans and tax refund loans.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It's almost as if graft, corruption, and regulatory capture are more the issue than the unions. Odd that the same thing happens in other arenas without unions. In the same vein, it's odd that government can be a force for the defense of personal rights and freedom, but corruption can turn it into a horribly oppressive force.
The answer to the issue of corrupt unions is to cleanse them of corruption, not to dissolve them so that workers are once again at a disadvantage in negotiations with management.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Full time needs to move 32-30 hours a week with may even an X2 OT at the 60+ hour weeks.
Who are these companies?
Care.com Inc., Instacart Inc., Postmates Inc.
Are they seriously "gig economy" companies?
Never heard of them.
Historically, corporations were responsible for worker well-being. Work accidents,...
By "historically" do you within the last 20 years? In the last 10000 years of humanity, this has really only been the case in the last few decades, and all it results in is dependency on your employer.
At this rate, we will be back to debt slavery, compelled work...
Or more opportunity, flexibility and freedom to change work. Depends if you're a glass half full or half empty person.
I really find it odd that you are defending corporate culture. The gig economy is simply providing services that allow you the choice to do more things. The service providers don't demand you show up at a certain time, work overtime, skip your holidays etc. This corporate system is the worst for control, profit stealing and greed.
Gig economy is ultimately about absolving corporate responsibility and offloading traditional costs of employment on society while retaining control of the profits and money flow.
Historically, corporations were responsible for worker well-being. Work accidents, unemployment insurance, disability and illness, old age benefits were all part of the pay package. This was fought for and won by unions during early industrial age (aka the robber-baron age). Over past 30 years corporations fought hard to reverse these gains. First, pensions were absolved. Now, with this gig economy the rest of protections are being removed. We already have undischargable student dept.
At this rate, we will be back to debt slavery, compelled work, and company towns in another decade or so. Only this time it will be "gig economy" and "enabled entrepreneurship" or some other PR BS.
One point: old age benefits are seriously problematic under the old system - ask anyone whose pension vanished in a puff of bankruptcy.
While I'll certainly agree with your basic point that the Gig economy is about employers weaseling out of their responsibilities, I'll also make the assertion that the employer should NOT be running any of these things themselves (having seen the bills my co-workers got when our employer stopped putting money into the 'self-insurance' pot). They should be PAYING for them, just not RUNNING them.
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
Nah, now-a-days they'd say GP was "woke".
Sad but true, these millennials are the worst.