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Taiwan Asks Google To Blur Its Military Facilities In South China Sea (nbcnews.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the disputed-territory dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Taiwan's defense ministry said on Wednesday it is asking Google to blur satellite images showing what experts say appear to be new military installations on Itu Aba, Taipei's sole holding in the disputed South China Sea. The revelation of new military-related construction could raise tensions in the contested waterway, where China's building of airstrips and other facilities has worried other claimants and the United States. The images seen on Google Earth show four three-pronged structures sitting in a semi-circle just off the northwestern shoreline of Itu Aba, across from an upgraded airstrip and recently constructed port that can dock 3,000-ton frigates. "Under the pre-condition of protecting military secrets and security, we have requested Google blur images of important military facilities," Taiwan Defense Ministry spokesman Chen Chung-chi said on Wednesday, after local media published the images on Itu Aba. The United States has urged against the militarization of the South China Sea, following the rapid land reclamation by China on several disputed reefs through dredging, and building air fields and port facilities. Defense experts in Taiwan said that based on the imagery of the structures and their semi-circular layout, the structures were likely related to defense and could be part of an artillery foundation.

52 comments

  1. Article Tagging by CMYKjunkie · · Score: 2

    How is this article not tagged "Streisand Effect"???

    1. Re:Article Tagging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe. Just maybe. Maybe the Taiwan military aren't the stupidest people on the face of the earth. Maybe they are thinking they'd like to be able to do things on their bases in the FUTURE that they don't want publicly visible.

  2. Stupid by hackwrench · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Taiwan actually believes that China relies on Google Maps for its military intel?

    1. Re:Stupid by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Same thing with Israel. They believe that by having Google blur images of their Dimona nuclear plant or where their nuclear weapons are stored that somehow no one will be able to find them.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    2. Re:Stupid by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Usually a military bases has guys with guns on it. That's usually enough to take care of "ultra-nationalist amateurs".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Stupid by bobbied · · Score: 2, Informative

      Taiwan actually believes that China relies on Google Maps for its military intel?

      Well, likely they just want to make it harder for the less well equipped terrorist who doesn't own the billions of dollars worth of hardware required to take the photos themselves from getting them? Plus, it actually would make it more difficult for China, who, instead of hitting up Google might actually have to take the images themselves to see what they think they need to see...

      So, I understand why they are asking... And I don't think they are under any illusions about how much of an advantage they are taking away from their advisories if Google grants their request, but every little bit helps.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really - hackers aren't physically there, etc.

    5. Re:Stupid by bobbied · · Score: 0

      Same thing with Israel. They believe that by having Google blur images of their Dimona nuclear plant or where their nuclear weapons are stored that somehow no one will be able to find them.

      It's not about Israel trying to hide the site... They are trying to protect it from the locals who wish them harm and would revel at the chance to attack said site successfully on foot, where a detailed aerial view would be invaluable to the planning, preparation and execution of such an attack. Having such information readily available from Google just makes it that much easier for the rag tag group of Palestinians representing Hamas (or even Israel's neighbor states who don't have ready access to equipment to collect such imagery for themselves) to make a lot more trouble with the same collection of guys and gear.

      Everybody knows where the installation is and what's there already. They are just trying to make it that much harder for the little groups to make trouble by denying them easy access to information. Yea, they can go out and pay for the images and get them or find another government who will give them the information, but all that takes time, money and folks talking to each other, which greatly elevates the risk of detection. So blurring the images DOES help in this case, if you are Israel.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing a drone can't solve these days. Captcha, precisely

    7. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pure fantasy! Israel isolates 50% of their people by racial and religious policies and gets a pass on brutal treatment that would get South Africa blockaded again.

    8. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name one country that doesn't mind its military bases being photographed every couple of months and being published for anyone to look at.

    9. Re:Stupid by bheerssen · · Score: 1

      I think it's more likely they want to make it harder for media and watchdog organizations to report on their activities.

      --
      (Score: -1, Stupid)
    10. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China wouldn't need google. They launch their own satellites, surely they have better imagery than google, for 'contested regions'. (And if they really don't have that, they can bribe google employees to provide them with sharp originals before the blurred versions go on the web.

      Similiarly, Palestinian activists wouldn't need google. They don't have a space program or money, but they have richer friends. Both Iran and Saudi Arabia dislike Israel. If you're willing to spend your life in an attack, then either will happily supply you with imagery purchased from satellite operators, or snaps from a use-once drone. (Use-once, as Israel is quite good at shooting down stuff.)

      Usually, Palestinian activists are more interested in weapons. Much more useful for storming Israeli facilities. Might actually do some damage before you die. .

    11. Re:Stupid by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      Vatican City.

    12. Re:Stupid by gnick · · Score: 1

      Hackers don't depend much on aerial photography to practice their trade.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    13. Re:Stupid by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Name one country that doesn't mind its military bases being photographed every couple of months and being published for anyone to look at.

      If Google is photographing your bases and publishing it, the problem isn't that they published it. The problem is that Google was able to successfully photograph it.

      If Google can photograph your base, then your adversary can too. And Google is almost certainly doing things in the nicest way possible, obeying laws, not generally willing to put up with planes being shot down as merely an inevitable cost of business, etc. A real adversary doesn't have those constraints.

      Attempting to censor Google is symptom-treating, and really, it's to a comical degree. It's way out there; this isn't merely "slightly stupid." This totally reeks of closing barns doors after horses have gotten out... except that there will be an update in a few months and of course they'll want that blurred too,because they still haven't closed the barn door. It's more like they just don't want people talking about the barn door, that they have already decided they're never going to close.

      YOUR HORSES ARE OUT, NUMBNUTS!!! WE ARE LOOKING AT YOUR BARN DOOR BECAUSE IT'S HYSTERICALLY FUNNY THAT YOU KEEP LEAVING IT OPEN, not because we want to steal your horses, which aren't in the barn anyway. If the horses were really still in the barn, then you would have shot down the photographer.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    14. Re:Stupid by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Their people? Would these be the same people who refused citizenship because they don't recognize Israel as a country?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. Uh, guys. by hey! · · Score: 1

    China has its own satellites.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Uh, guys. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has also hacked into US and Russian satellites.

    2. Re:Uh, guys. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has also hacked into US and Russian satellites.

      Sources on that?

  4. Cats and bags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where did my cat go? It was in this bag a minute ago.

  5. Careful what you ask for by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    China will blur them for you ... via missiles

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Careful what you ask for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should cover the sites like in an old, censored pornography, by using stickers like starts, hearts, mushroom clouds..Wait, now I went too far!

    2. Re:Careful what you ask for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Chinese launched any missiles towards Taiwan that decision would rank in the top 5 of the stupidest military decisions in modern history. Like Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, Germany's invasion of Russia, Iraq's decision to invade Kuwait, Napoleon's invasion of Russia, Russia's invasion of Afghanistan, the 5 ME countries who decided to invade Israel in 1948, the 3 ME countries who decided to invade Israel in 1967, the 3 ME countries who decided to invade Israel in 1978, the US invasion of Vietnam, and the second US invasion of Iraq. I am sure there are more examples but you get the point. However, if China was to launch a missile it would have to get through all the anti-missile batteries. China has to thank NK for providing a reason for all the surrounding countries to beef up their anti-missile capabilities.

    3. Re:Careful what you ask for by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      If the Chinese launched any missiles towards Taiwan that decision would rank in the top 5 of the stupidest military decisions in modern history.

      Humans do stupid shit all the time.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  6. Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by zenlessyank · · Score: 2

    End Of Discussion.

    1. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by bobbied · · Score: 1

      End Of Discussion.

      Seriously? I can think of a LOT of places where a little be a blurring might be a good thing, helping to keep likely terrorist targets a bit less exposed and remove a cost and risk free means of surveillance in places you'd rather keep the public's nose out of for their own safety. Nuclear power plants for example, you need to keep those things pretty secure given what's at risk and handing out maps to terrorists might not be a good idea. Same with other industrial areas, where the risks to the public is large or perhaps prison compounds and other public infrastructure where you would rather not hand out a blue print of the ground plan to those you are trying to protect it from.

      Where I suppose a policy of letting the government decide where blurring is appropriate and where it's not might get abused, it's not without merit to consider.

      Just food for thought on you extremely one sided statement there...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      I'm not hungry at the moment, thanks though. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy. Either we ALL can see it or its all bullshit.

    3. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately your opinion is irrelevant, blurring Taiwan's territory is Taiwan's decision.

    4. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunatly for you, you dont live in a black and white world but one composed of shades of gray

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    5. Re: Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Not very substantial food for thought. All of those things are easy to think of and easy to dismiss with the notion that security through obscurity is really no security at all. If these places are designed in such a way that blurring out aerial photos of them provides any degree of additional security, then these places aren't secure.

    6. Re: Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Only if they can get Google to agree with that decision.

    7. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better tell that to the US, UK and most governments around the world who all demand and get the exact same treatment for many of their military installations.

    8. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      That is why they call it gray matter. A small spongy material that unlike a swimming pool or a solar system, cannot be filled. I run a high contrast filter.

    9. Re: Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      Exactamundo.. The whole thing is moot. If one person or entity can see it then any person should be able to see it. That is the surface of the Earth, not what is in my shorts for you witty bastards.

    10. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by skam240 · · Score: 1

      Not it's not.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    11. Re: Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is hardly difficult. Google here is your legal court order in our country, obey it or have your execs arrested and your business in the country destroyed, exactly the same way the US government would respond if they tried to refuse such a request.

    12. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The problem with that is city growth, access for smart staff to nice, safe neighbourhoods usually takes over from a sealed off, remote site.
      Most nations try to counter that with a 1980's version of the East German boarder in depth around a site.
      Everyone allowed near the area is passed as been loyal. Any new faces, cars, passengers get databased. With photographic records of all tourists, students, academics, diplomats, sympathisers, strangers around sensitive sites kept, interesting people are quickly tracked and tasked for investigation.
      Nations might even expand roads, rail or bus links to avoid an area. No reason for many people just to be passing.
      A random police event far from a site for speeding, been too slow, poor etiquette will usually give an ID on approach.
      Chat downs of any strange new people with a camera, on a bike, walking the area.
      The other trick is for a uniformed security guard or other undercover security posing as staff to lure the interesting person onto a a private, gov or mil site. Many rights and legal protections while on public land are then replaced with complex mil/gov trespassing issues.
      Foreign governments just buy, bribe or are contacted by ex, former staff and get all the real details.
      The risk with blurring is a region then becomes a forum or social media event for locals, tourists and the tech press. Inducing having a new drone and/or 600mm camera taken away with a deportation story becomes a rite of passage for the media. Or a local version of a first amendment audit area that just keeps giving the best encounters and chat downs for social media.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re: Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Not very substantial food for thought. All of those things are easy to think of and easy to dismiss with the notion that security through obscurity is really no security at all. If these places are designed in such a way that blurring out aerial photos of them provides any degree of additional security, then these places aren't secure.

      Right... Let's just say I think your understanding of this issue fails. It is obvious that there is a degree of security that obscurity brings.

      However, you set up a straw man here. Nobody is claiming that obscurity provides *all* the security, only that it enhances the security they have. They are not dependent on obscurity, they only enhance security using it. It's the same reason armies use camouflage on their uniforms and the air forces of the world paint their fighters grey. Camouflage doesn't stop bullets or bombs from killing you, but it may keep them from coming your way from time to time..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    14. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by bobbied · · Score: 0

      Just food for thought on you extremely one sided statement there...

      I'm not hungry at the moment, thanks though. I'm an all or nothing kind of guy. Either we ALL can see it or its all bullshit.

      I think you are starving and just don't know it.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    15. Re:Nothing Should Be Blurred Out. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      Think in one hand and piss in the other and see which one fills first.

  7. Any State Actor can see these photos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, why are they blocking the rest of us?

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. This helps their enemies... by Macdude · · Score: 2

    This move helps Taiwan's enemies. Forget about all that expensive intelligence gathering, all they have to do is target the blurry areas...

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    1. Re:This helps their enemies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean target it with... expensive intelligence gathering?

    2. Re:This helps their enemies... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Any halfway decent intelligence service will know where enemy installations are. The blurring doesn't hide the fact that they're there, it stops people from getting a detailed map of the installation.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. If you're doing nothing wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..then you've got nothing to hide. What is anyone worried about here? Oh no they have a semi circular layout? THREE proings you say? Who cares?

  11. Can be extrapolated from Pokemon Go images by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Kind of a waste of time.

    Mind you, that game is NSA, so I suppose it's ok, but they can crowdsource the images Pokefans post on social media.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  12. Faceplant by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

    Wang said given the structures' location which faces the main seaborne traffic, they may relate to surveillance.

    I'm not sure which is more logical - the North Korea method of 'show what ya got with a bit of enlargement and flare' with clear public view to show off, or the Taiwanese method of showing you're building something with clear coordinates and pre-fabs already made, with a request to "hide" it from the enemies.

    Um. An enemy knows where it is and can pinpoint it now, or just sent a few low orbit observation drones over it to have a look once/week.

    This must be a distraction and nothing more. It's probably nothing of any true value, but with all eyes focused on it, they can build that nuke-ya-lur facility somewhere else. Or something. This is too stupid to make sense from the angle it's seen from now.

  13. When the war starts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the war starts first all blurred areas will be carpet bombed.