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Mozilla Has Stopped All Commercial Development On Firefox OS -- Explains What It Plans To Do With Code Base (google.com)

Mozilla announced last year that Firefox OS initiative of shipping phones with commercial partners did not bring the returns it sought. The company earlier this year hinted that it intends to shut the project. It is now sharing how it will deal with Firefox OS code base going forward. From their post: We would stop our efforts to build and ship smartphones through carrier partners and pivot our efforts with Firefox OS to explore opportunities for new use cases in the world of connected devices. Firefox OS was transitioned to a Tier 3 platform from the perspective of support by Mozilla's Platform Engineering organization. That meant as of January 31, 2016 no Mozilla Platform Engineering resources would be engaged to provide ongoing support and all such work would be done by other contributors. For some period of time that work would be done by Mozillaâ(TM)s Connected Devices team. We had ideas for other opportunities for Firefox OS, perhaps as a platform for explorations in the world of connected devices, and perhaps for continued evolution of Firefox OS TV. To allow for those possibilities, and to provide a stable release for commercial TV partners, development would continue on a Firefox OS 2.6 release. In parallel with continued explorations by the Connected Devices team, we recognized there was interest within the Mozilla community in carrying forward work on Firefox OS as a smartphone platform, and perhaps even for other purposes. A Firefox OS Transition Project was launched to perform a major clean-up of the B2G code bringing it to a stable end state so it could be passed into the hands of the community as an open source project. In the spring and summer of 2016 the Connected Devices team dug deeper into opportunities for Firefox OS. They concluded that Firefox OS TV was a project to be run by our commercial partner and not a project to be led by Mozilla. Further, Firefox OS was determined to not be sufficiently useful for ongoing Connected Devices work to justify the effort to maintain it. This meant that development of the Firefox OS stack was no longer a part of Connected Devices, or Mozilla at all. Firefox OS 2.6 would be the last release from Mozilla. Today we are announcing the next phase in that evolution. While work at Mozilla on Firefox OS has ceased, we very much need to continue to evolve the underlying code that comprises Gecko, our web platform engine, as part of the ongoing development of Firefox. In order to evolve quickly and enable substantial new architectural changes in Gecko, Mozilla's Platform Engineering organization needs to remove all B2G-related code from mozilla-central. This certainly has consequences for B2G OS. For the community to continue working on B2G OS they will have to maintain a code base that includes a full version of Gecko, so will need to fork Gecko and proceed with development on their own, separate branch.

97 comments

  1. Firefox OS? by JesseEnjaian · · Score: 2

    I want investor fun money.

    1. Re:Firefox OS? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who DIDN'T see this coming? Anyone in the real world? Anyone?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  2. (Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's your problem right there. How about concentrating on giving us a good *browser* instead, like you used to?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    1. Re:(Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's hard to justify a multi-million-dollar budget if you're only making a web browser.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:(Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Given that Mozilla makes hundreds of millions per year by auctioning off the default search engine on Firefox, and given that this money is proportional to market share (currently at 8%), I'd say that a multi-million-dollar budget is easily justified for only making a web browser.

    3. Re:(Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do we want Mozilla to 'improve' Firefox further? Mozilla's best application is Thunderbird, and the reason for that is because they stopped working on it. Had they continued development of Thunderbird you'd need about twenty extensions just to make it usable, as you do with Firefox.

      I don't think there's much hope for the future of Firefox. Mozilla have shown they're completely out of touch with what users want, and as such Firefox's market share on the desktop has dropped from about 25% to 7.69%, and is continuing to drop at an average at a rate of about 0.5 percentage points per month. Firefox isn't competitive in terms of performance so it does need improving, but the last thing you want is Mozilla's idea of improvement, so whatever happens it appears that Firefox will continue it's not-so-slow death.

    4. Re:(Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      There's your problem right there. How about concentrating on giving us a good *browser* instead, like you used to?

      That's exactly what they are doing, they are stopping other projects (Thunderbird, Firefox OS) to concentrate on severe refactorings of their core product, Firefox and the underlying Gecko, to catch up again with Chrome, and deliver a better browser. It is harder to restructure a codebase if you need to maintain several products that depend on it.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    5. Re:(Gecko = "Web platform") = WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In a LOT of ways, firefox is now just a watered down Chrome (coloquially speaking) and there are vanishing reasons to use it.

      Case in point: "Save to pocket" was added to the context menu.

      Who the FUCK asked for that? Fuck you and your ill-advised hairbrained schemes, Mozilla.

  3. Translation by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    This certainly has consequences for B2G OS. For the community to continue working on B2G OS they will have to maintain a code base that includes a full version of Gecko, so will need to fork Gecko and proceed with development on their own, separate branch.

    Translation: We found it is useless so we've thrown it over the fence.

  4. WOW by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Firefox OS turned out to not be a success? Thank goodness I was already sitting down when I read this!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:WOW by nnull · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And don't forget Ubuntu on phones. I was hoping they'd have some success with that but it seems incompetence completely rolled over that. They stopped selling the Meizu Pro 5, with all its problems, since then it has become last years phone. The Meizu Pro 6 is out and Ubuntu is just left behind, selling nothing. I hope they can change because I'm honestly tired of my Android phone tracking me ever since Google's latest maps and play store update.

    2. Re:WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Firefox OS Transition Project was launched to perform a major clean-up of the B2G code bringing it to a stable end state so it could be passed into the hands of the community as an open source project

      It wasn't already an open source project?

    3. Re: WOW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It will be made more open and more sourcey.

  5. Well by willoughby · · Score: 1

    If you people can't communicate more clearly & succinctly than that I'm not surprised it flopped. How long does it take you folks to order at a restaurant?

  6. Meh by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry their investment and hard work is mostly going into the bin, but that's business.

    Mozilla's golden goose is their focus on privacy and security. Keeping Firefox cutting edge and making new tools/protocols for privacy and security should be their emphasis, not (in already over-saturated market) an operating system.

    1. Re:Meh by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Keeping Firefox cutting edge...

      'Scuse me?

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    2. Re:Meh by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I'm no native speaker, but even I am fairly sure that "keeping" doesn't mean what you think it does.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Meh by LichtSpektren · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, keeping. Firefox is still the best browser. Now that e10s is stable its performance is comparable with Chrome's, and it still has far superior extensions, customizability, and built-in security/privacy features.

    4. Re:Meh by narcc · · Score: 2

      Servo

      It's hard not to be impressed.

  7. Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by sjbe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mozilla announced last year that Firefox OS initiative of shipping phones with commercial partners did not bring the returns it sought.

    And did anyone expect otherwise? Mozilla is an organization which has lost its purpose. It keeps chasing fads, copying the work of others, wasting money on projects that no one needed or wanted, and can't seem to figure out what to do next. Mozilla's original goal was to ensure there was an open web. Internet Explorer and Microsoft were in danger of turning the web into a monopoly. Firefox provided the fireblock to prevent this from happening. Problem is that once they accomplished that goal, they didn't know what to do next.

    I like Firefox and use it as my primary browser. It's a decent albeit imperfect bit of software. But if Mozilla really wants to make a difference they need to focus on solving actual problems instead of trying to do a second rate version of whatever Google is working on this week. They need to focus on a specific problem and do it really well. They did that for a while with browser software. Time to genuinely focus on something new.

    1. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is what happens with organizations that literally are rolling in piles of cash and have no clue what to do next. Look at Yahoo/Microsoft/Google/etc. It took a heroic effort to get Apple back from the brink.

    2. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Time to genuinely focus on something new.

      OK, let's see ... running my finger down the list, we arrive at ... ah! Here we go. Internet of Things. Sharpen your pencils, everyone!

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by snadrus · · Score: 0

      Mozilla excels when there is a massive project that should be open to the world (and standardized) and is not. Besides the browser and email client, PDF.js is very significant and is integrated in 1000s of sites and products because it reads PDFs safely (as safe as the JS sandbox).

      I think they should partner with Elon Musk's OpenAI effort to produce standards, software, and support. Their Project Vaani speech-to-text engine shows they are thinking this way, but lack the AI experience to do it themselves today.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    4. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I thought there was some small chance they could succeed in lower income countries but before they were able to get a foothold chips got cheaper and Android was able to run on equivalently low-end hardware.

    5. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by kaiser423 · · Score: 2

      Yup. They're without a mission. And looking in from the outside, all future/current missions looks like bad plays. IoT will play out like the smart phone thing, and so on.

      So, what should they do? Well, you wait until a mission comes. You don't just cast around for one because you have money and the desire. You enhance, solidy, and perfect your current mission. Polish the heck out of FF, and wait for the next thing. It'll likely be adjacent to FF, and having an exceptional product on hand will make that leap easier and more likely to be successful.

      They keeping trying to hop onto fads as they start -- like trying to get in on the bottom floor or not miss the boat. Instead, they need to wait for a problem to present itself and fester for a bit so that the ways to fix it are clear. Trying to catch every bandwagon just leaves you exhausted and covered in dust. My bet is that they still feel that "it's win" because they nudged to market towards a freer or opener place or something. But they'll never have impact, nor survive like that....gotta have the big marquee projects and successes also.

    6. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

      Problem is that once they accomplished that goal, they didn't know what to do next.

      How about maintain the balance? Maintain the small simple extensible browser. Make it efficient at what it does. Follow W3C standards. Maintain the Gecko engine. That is all.

    7. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by evilviper · · Score: 1

      once they accomplished that goal, they didn't know what to do next.

      Actually, they did know what to do next, but they do so rather aimlessly and pathetically. It seems there's nobody at the wheel.

      Mozilla helped get PNG adopted as an alternative to GIF, but that's only for still images, while GIF also does animations. Firefox first failed to promote MNG, then ensured its death by removing it from their browser, and much later introducing their own MPNG standard, which then repeated the above cycle of indecision, neglect, and sabotage.

      Much the same goes for video... They shouted loudly in support of open video standards, but were pretty slow to even just include them in their own browser(s).

      Personally, I'd be happy if Mozilla just focused on optimizing the hell out of Firefox. It's much slower and memory-hungry than other browsers on Android. Even on my desktop, a little bit of JS can drag the browser to an unresponsive crawl, even utilitarian sites like Amazon get less usable with each heavier and slower browser release.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    8. Re: Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of companies chase fads, etc. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Being first doesn't always work either else Lyons would still be a viable chain of tea shops and we'd also have LyonsBooks and iLyons in our pockets and complaining that Lyons was stealing our privacy.

    9. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Firefox OS was never faster or lower-end than Android to begin with. The idea that HTML+JS+CSS could ever be faster than native compiled apps (or even Java/Dalvik for that matter) was just insane. Damn near everybody knew it was a bullshit waste of money just thrown at the wall.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    10. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Kjella · · Score: 2

      I like Firefox and use it as my primary browser. It's a decent albeit imperfect bit of software. But if Mozilla really wants to make a difference they need to focus on solving actual problems instead of trying to do a second rate version of whatever Google is working on this week. They need to focus on a specific problem and do it really well. They did that for a while with browser software. Time to genuinely focus on something new.

      Actually I wish they'd go back and do something old because they had the funds without needing the hype. If there was three things you'd find on any business desktop it was IE, Outlook and Office. One down, two to go. They might have to work on an AD/Exchange too in order to really succeed. I think it's nuts that in 2016 most people still use proprietary tech for simple documents and spreadsheets.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like Firefox, too. In my opinion, what's holding them back is:
      1) External funding. Better not bite the hand that feeds them, and historically the hand that feeds them has been ad companies which require mining user data which is not in the user's best interest, but not a lot Mozilla can do since that's where their funding comes from.
      2) Overly concerned with browser marketshare. Better not do anything non-Chrome, or we could lose more users. Truly open source projects do what's right and users follow. It might be fewer users and it may be different users, but if it's good the users will come.
      3) Questionable executive decision making.
      4) Lack of identity. Trying to please the lowest common denominator. Is that a strategic way to gain more developers and power users (who are the opinions many of the unwashed masses rely on)?
      I wish Mozilla the best, but seriously something has to change. Start at the top.

    12. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And did anyone expect otherwise? Mozilla is an organization which has lost its purpose. It keeps chasing fads, copying the work of others, wasting money on projects that no one needed or wanted, and can't seem to figure out what to do next. Mozilla's original goal was to ensure there was an open web. Internet Explorer and Microsoft were in danger of turning the web into a monopoly. Firefox provided the fireblock to prevent this from happening. Problem is that once they accomplished that goal, they didn't know what to do next.

      So they decided to team up with Microsoft, Google, and Apple to close down the web again.

    13. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      People were waiting for the 5" phones with 1GB RAM and Firefox OS 2.x (e.g. ZTE Open L)

      A big mistake was to go too much low end then fail to release upgrades fast enough. People were stuck on version 1.3, which doesn't actually offer privacy - no adblocking and no filtering. For those that were interested on technical and security grounds, it was a giant Osborne effect (that would still be going on : Web Assembly and Servo are not there yet). It did have e10s early on.
      The best part is the phone didn't require an online acccount, nor even asked for one.

      With today's phone CPUs it would be a kind of Chrome OS for the mobile phone.
      The one low end friendly aspect was the OS and built-in apps used very few storage. Security patches were small and quick. (But actual upgrades required to download a community image and to mess with the phone, using a Windows program to flash it. Hence the normal end user experience was to run Firefox OS 1.3 forever, based on Firefox 28)

    14. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by SuseLover · · Score: 1

      What's next? systemd in Firefox (or a dependency on it)?

    15. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make emacs a part of firefox.

    16. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could write a mini-book on this, but Firefox OS wasn't about chasing fads. I was working there before and after this pivot, and it was part of a huge structural and ideological change in the organization itself that really ruined the place. Andreas just provided the perceived opportunity, and management irrationally jumped on it and gave it everything they had. John Lilly had left as CEO, and they brought in Gavry Kovacs, a business guy. Gary lead a comprehensive and pretty thorough campaign to turn Mozilla into the image a for-profit business.

      One of his biggest accomplishments in his first year was to create an executive class, where none had existed. We had had a few executives, but they didn't make for-profit, big industry salary. We had had our quarterly bonuses, but they had been the same for everyone, e.g. if it was 30% in a given quarter, because we did really well, everyone got 30% of base quarterly salary as a bonus. Gary changed all that. Though still a company of, say, 500 people (we went from 350 to 850 in my time there), executives were on an entirely different compensation structure. Moreover, a corporate leveling system was devised a la Google.

      Gary and 3 his closest executives (plus EAs) have eventually all moved on too AVG.

      Renegotiation of the Google contract by Lilly put a lot of money into Gary's hands, and the latter along with upper management just blew it on expansion and corporate bells and whistles. Hell, Gary was hanging out with Ed Norton and other celebrities, posing for photo ops at ridiculously expensive new offices. He wheeled and dealed with big mobile companies, making him feel like a big corporate player, but those companies exploited the opportunity. Mozilla was a joke of a partner, a short-term PR boon. While Mozilla's rubes thought they were taking on Android and iOS. Mozillians, like most non-profits ludicrously equate intention with execution. No one gave a shit about their intention, not even WhatsApp, whom they assumed would build a client for their platform.

      Our mission fell under the jurisdiction of marketing people, some of whom were really amateurs who had become marketeers internally by proclaiming themselves as such, and most of the other were new corporate types. One of the reasons Thunderbird was dropped was because they couldn't fit it into any effective mission statement that they could see. The other major major reason was that Platform Engineers wouldn't do Gecko work that was only beneficial to Thunderbird. Despite restructuring the company to be more hierarchal, despite all the money and time spent on management training and retreats, they still couldn't get browser engineers to follow orders or even align priorities. This isn't just speculation on my part; these things were explicitly discussed.

      I'll stop myself with that much. Expect Firefox engineering to get worse though. There have been some recent departures of people who were there from the beginnings, leaders of development for 16 years. Even those diehards can't hack it anymore. The people who stay from the veteran crowd are largely people with no other options. They work remotely from places with no other work. Since they got in early, their salaries are pretty high. They are holding on as tight as they can.

      Someday there will be a great book about this, about the naive and clueless foundation leadership who embraced a bunch of corporate carpet baggers, about management that was either incompetent or broken by impossible demands, about how reality kicked self-important idealism's ass, etc.

    17. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to talk about the incompetence of the mobile UX team.

    18. Re:Mozilla is wasting money, brains, and time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firefox OS was the first mobile web-browser I ever used (that was not a mobile-web browser)
      I liked it, though some things were ridiculous such as when you need to scroll all the way up and it's done by making 20 or 30 full screen swipes.
      I was also waiting for Firefox OS 2.5 to flash the phone.
      Now, back to desktops only.

  8. in other words, Firefox OS is toast by swschrad · · Score: 1

    and if you bought into "a fresh alternative" Kool-Aid, you now have a doorstop. it's up to you when you go buy a replacement phone.

    first-adopter syndrome, I left it behind some years ago.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  9. What to do with it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shit on it, then burn it and then put out the fire by pissing on it.

  10. Re:Guess what America?? by SumDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They're both psychopaths. Both of you are trolls. The vote doesn't matter. America is a monarchy. The government under Romney would have been the same. Now fuck off and stop pretending your vote matters.

  11. I want alternatives by SumDog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So with Windows, FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile fading out, are we just stuck with Android/iOS now?

    1. Re:I want alternatives by LichtSpektren · · Score: 2

      I've not read anything to suggest Ubuntu Touch is fading out.

    2. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sailfish / Tizen? oh US, ya Android/iOS. Can't let the FCC approve phone's with OS's that aren't backdoored.

    3. Re:I want alternatives by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree, it would have to had sold devices in order to fade away.

    4. Re:I want alternatives by benmhall · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes. This is exactly what we are stuck with. What's worse is that we're really stuck with Apple and Samsung, as they account for over 100% of profits from handhelds (meaning everyone else is losing money.)

      As we've lost choice in platforms, we will soon lose choose in who is offering the platforms. At the moment, LG, HTC, Samsung, Sony, BlackBerry, Asus, and a boatload of Chinese companies offer Android phones. If the second-tier manufacturers like LG, HTC, Sony can't be profitable, they'll have to exit. This will leave us with Apple with iOS, Samsung selling premium and mid-range, and everyone else squabbling for enough table scraps to stay afloat with Android.

      I applaud the effort on Ubuntu Mobile, but I'd put it's chances of succeeding as far less than BlackBerry's or even Firefox OS, which at least had good buzz and shipped devices for a couple of years.

      We've lost Symbian, webOS, BlackBerry OS already. Firefox OS is toast, and I can't imagine that Jolla has much gas left. If Microsoft wasn't Microsoft, Windows Phone OS would have died completely ages ago, and still likely will. iOS is a walled garden, Android is a sieve that sends everything back to Google for monetization. And it's still a usability disaster. It's a pretty bad state of affairs.

    5. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, the Ubuntu phones and tablets sell out fast. I check their site regularly.

    6. Re:I want alternatives by LichtSpektren · · Score: 2

      It does sell devices. Granted, an almost insignificant amount; but it's growing, not fading.

    7. Re:I want alternatives by grumbel5969 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, what's wrong with Android? It's based on Linux and somewhat Open Source. It would be nice if there would be more compatibility between desktop Linux and Android, but that's something that could be accomplished without reinventing everything. Ubuntu in fact worked on allowing you to run Android apps on desktop Linux, but they abandoned that many years ago and instead went the same "reinvent everything" route that Mozilla tried and they will probably fail just the same.

      If Free Software wants to stay relevant in the long run they need to work more on interoperability, portability and mobility. Back in the day there was a "many user : single computer" environment and cloning Unix solved that reasonably well, but these days we live in a "single user : multiple computer" environment and so far Free Software isn't really handling that all that well and all these "let's write yet another OS" efforts aren't really helping, as they are just yet another OS that it mostly incompatible with the devices I already own.

    8. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So with Windows, FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Mobile fading out, are we just stuck with Android/iOS now?

      I hope not. I don't want to use iOS and Android sucks ass via the NSA's mouth.

    9. Re: I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. By the time the Sun engulf the Earth it might even give Symbian a reason to pay attention.

    10. Re:I want alternatives by erapert · · Score: 1

      Here's a link to buy one in case anyone is too lazy to google.

    11. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to tell you but being open source and based on Linux means pretty much zero to me anymore. Yeah, I can put something on that isn't stamped by Verizon and Google but I want a working phone and not something I need to play with and pray to god that it works right with every update. You can't have both and the fact that open source doesn't stand on its own means that I go with Google.... it's a trainwreck either way and I'm thinking I'm going to buy into the walled garden soon. It may limit options but I trust Apple over Google when it comes to who'd sell me out as a user first.

    12. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows is not fading out, despite the desperate wishes of GNU/Systemd/Linux fanboys.

    13. Re:I want alternatives by luther349 · · Score: 1

      thats coming with the next android as it will have fused the chrome os code base into it.

    14. Re:I want alternatives by luther349 · · Score: 1

      the only thing that saves windows is direct x and as long as they keep that strangle hold on game devs windows isnt going anywhere.

    15. Re:I want alternatives by luther349 · · Score: 1

      personally i dont like the top tires phones now its all a sealed throw me away a year from now setup. where lg phones still have battery's you can remove sim card slots etc.

    16. Re:I want alternatives by luther349 · · Score: 1

      sd card slots lol.

    17. Re:I want alternatives by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      I applaud the effort on Ubuntu Mobile, but I'd put it's chances of succeeding as far less than BlackBerry's or even Firefox OS, which at least had good buzz and shipped devices for a couple of years.

      I flashed some Android phones/tablets with early versions of Ubuntu Mobile. Assuming that's still possible, there are more devices available than you think. Sure, flashing isn't for everyone -- but we were always years away from an Ubuntu phone being a mainstream consumer product.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    18. Re:I want alternatives by exomondo · · Score: 1

      personally i dont like the top tires phones now its all a sealed throw me away a year from now setup.

      Dont be so melodramatic. There is no reason the top tier phones can't last many years. Indeed even the iPhone 5 from over 4 years ago is perfectly usable with the latest OS update, as is the Nexus 4, Galaxy S4 with Cyanogen, etc... If you need to throw them away after 1 year then the problem is with you, not the phone.

    19. Re:I want alternatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I trust Apple over Google when it comes to who'd sell me out as a user first.

      You do know they'll both sell you out, right?

    20. Re:I want alternatives by dddux · · Score: 1

      Don't you think Vulcan is a good alternative to Direct X? Maybe not yet, but Vulcan sounds better and better with each passing day.

      --
      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
  12. Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Instead of fixing the tens of thousands of bugs in Firefox, its much more fun making useless OS's, making computer languages and fucking up the UI.

    1. Re: Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Firefox OS attracted people to work on it rather than web browsers then in terms of dev effort nothing was lost. If the funding was also in addition to funding for the browser then no money was lost. Not developing something that might have caught on would have been passing up on an opportunity. It's only really damaging if it used up resources from the core business (time, money, or diligence/focus) or has resulted in reputational damage. If some of the lessons learned in failing to make the OS work can be applied to the browser then it could have been a net benefit, and although I have been there and done that I remain to be convinced it will necessarily be true in this case.

    2. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 0

      Nailed it.

      Mod parent +1 Insightful.

    3. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Instead of fixing the tens of thousands of bugs in Firefox, its much more fun making useless OS's, making computer languages and fucking up the UI.

      Bingo.

      Personally, I'd be happy if they just fixed the memory leak problem(s). (The ones that some people rabidly insist don't exist and/or aren't a problem.)

      Just sitting with two tabs open and doing nothing, FF gradually expands to gobble up 2.2 gigs of RAM on my PC, whereupon it starts to lag horrifically, becomes unresponsive to scrolling, and starts refusing to display images. The only add-ons I have loaded are AdBlock and NoScript, that's it. Yet it steadily eats more and more memory until it's kill-and-restart time.

      Cue all the people who will insist that this isn't a problem, the leaks have been fixed, it must be a bad add-on, etc etc etc.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    4. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a throwback to when they were called Phoenix. You can't expect anything modeled after a phoenix to not crash and burn after awhile. So it's a feature, not a bug.

    5. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, once you stop ignoring all of the bug fixes and improvements they make to Firefox, your argument is revealed to be bunk. But this is Slashdot, where we must present Mozilla as incompetent do-nothings, so I suppose I'll be seeing a +5 Insightful on your comment instead.

    6. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      I've had that _exact_ same problem since the FF 2.0 days!! Yes 2.0.

      I eventually gave up and switched to Chrome. :-/

      I never did figure out why FF was a RAM hog. I suspected it might be related to video playback and/or Flash related. Do you browse YouTube (or any other video sites) at all ?

      How many tabs do you regularly have open? 10? 50? 100?

      I wish FF wasn't such a PITA to compile out of the box. I wouldn't mind logging EVERY malloc() / new() call to see what the hell FF is doing.

    7. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Do you browse YouTube (or any other video sites) at all ?

      How many tabs do you regularly have open? 10? 50? 100?

      I browse Youtube occasionally on my PC, but more often on my tablet. My tabs are mostly open on different webmail clients and a few of my own sites that I watch for activity. As for tabs, it doesn't seem to matter. I might typically have ~15 tabs open on two or three instances of FF, but I've seen it do this with two tabs on a single instance.

      The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to happen any faster with more tabs open, but I haven't really done any serious testing on that. It just seems that after ~24 hours or so it hits the RAM limit and starts to barf whether I have 5 tabs open or 20 tabs open.

      This has been an issue for a long, long time. I'm not sure exactly what rev I started noticing it with but I think it's been this way for several years on different boxes, laptops, etc. Maybe version 10 or 12? Now we're up to version 49.x and it's still doing it...

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    8. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > As for tabs, it doesn't seem to matter. I might typically have ~15 tabs open on two or three instances of FF, but I've seen it do this with two tabs on a single instance.

      That confirms what I used to see too.

      >The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to happen any faster with more tabs open, but I haven't really done any serious testing on that. It just seems that after ~24 hours or so it hits the RAM limit and starts to barf whether I have 5 tabs open or 20 tabs open.

      Interesting that you can hit this in 24 hours. In the past it would take me a few days.

      I did a little testing over the years. Once I noticed FF used 2+ GB I would close all tabs except one. How the frig does FF use 2+ GB with only one tab open !?!?!

      Garbage Collection was added inFirefox 38 via

      about:memory

      But the Free Memory (GC), (CC), and (Minimize memory usage) does jack.

      I'll restart FF with the single tab and FF will be back down to ~ 100 MB. /sarcasm Yup, there is no memory leak! NOT.

      > Now we're up to version 49.x and it's still doing it...

      I'm not surprised. I got tired of the devs making the excuse that FF doesn't have a memory leak when it clearly does for a few people.

      I really resisted Chrome until 2010 until I noticed that the memory leak was never going to be fixed. Chrome runs each tab in its process -- which is awesome. You can kill each tab individually to get memory back !

      I really should switch to Chromium ...

    9. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I really resisted Chrome until 2010 until I noticed that the memory leak was never going to be fixed.

      I tried Chrome and I liked it, but I was a little leery of how much it phoned home...it seemed to be in constant contact with Google, every day, all day. It creeped me out and pissed me off. (It's the same reason why I don't run Win 10- too much telemetry.)

      But maybe it's time to try Chrome again. As long as I can use NoScript and AdBlock I'll put up with Google monitoring my every keystroke and mouse click in the browser.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    10. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is I'm currently considering switching away from Chrome. I never realized how much telemetry is sends. (I hear you about Win 10 !! I refuse to use it except when mandated at work.)

      If you go the Chrome route there is an _awesome_ extension called: Tabs Outliner
      It has a separate window that shows ALL your tabs (both open and closed) vertically !
      https://chrome.google.com/webs...

      I'm not trying to "sell" you on Chrome -- I really wish this extension existed for FF.

      So if FF sucks due to memory leaks, Chrome spys on you, then what browser is left? Chromium?

    11. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      So if FF sucks due to memory leaks, Chrome spys on you, then what browser is left? Chromium?

      Good question.

      For Windows I keep hearing about Opera, Pale Moon, K-Meleon, Safari and a few others, but for me NoScript and AdBlock are two must-have add-ons. If the browser doesn't have them or their equivalents, it's a non-starter.

      For Linux it seems that Firefox, Konqueror, and Epiphany are the big ones. But again, it's the NoScript and AdBlock add-ons (or equivalents) that I've got to have, so I use FF on Linux (and it seems to behave better on Linux than on Windows in terms of memory gobbling).

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    12. Re:Fixing Firefox bugs is boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I'd be happy if they just fixed the memory leak problem(s). (The ones that some people rabidly insist don't exist and/or aren't a problem.)

      The memory leak is in your imagination. As far as anyone can tell, there's never been a serious memory leak. There were a few more than a decade ago, but they were relatively minor. Nothing of note since 2006.

      FireFox handles memory far better than Chrome, and has for a long time now.

      You're living in a fantasy.

  13. Re:Guess what America?? by Opportunist · · Score: 0

    This is one of the few moments I wish I had mod points.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  14. LUDDITES killed Appfox OS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    The LUDDITES at LUDDITE Mozilla killed the appy Appfox OS, which can app apps in AppScript while apping other apps! Only LUDDITES would use a LUDDITE operating system written in LUDDITE C++ instead of appy AppScript!

    Apps!

  15. The Unix Wars are over... by wiredog · · Score: 1

    Unix won.

  16. Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is saved? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2, Funny

    Q: Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is saved?
    A: America.

    Q: Clinton and Trump jump off the Empire State building without a parachute. Who hits the ground first?
    A: Who cares?

    Q: Clinton and Trump fall into the ocean. Who drowns?
    A: Neither. Shit floats.

    Those two are proof that politics is like a septic tank - the really big chunks float to the top.

    Try the fish.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  17. I'm going to point this out every time I see it by sootman · · Score: 2

    "For some period of time that work would be done by Mozillaâ(TM)s Connected Devices team."

    COME ON, SLASHDOT!

    And now, a joke:
    Q: What's the difference between me and Slashdot?
    A: In the last 20 years, I've learned how to deal with common special characters.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  18. Buzzwords! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pivot a hole in the ground! Then lay in it!

  19. Re:Guess what America?? by Alomex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sorry but this is bogus. Compare the performance of America's economy, wages, policies, foreign relations between Bill Clinton and Bush Jr.

    It does make a difference. Imagine what we could have done with the trillion dollars we spent fighting the war in Iraq?

  20. Give it to Google (Alphabet) by theendlessnow · · Score: 1

    Google could get the OS into thousands, if not millions of people's hands.




    And then kill it a couple of years later...

    1. Re:Give it to Google (Alphabet) by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Firefox OS is free software.
      If Google wanted it, they would have picked it up like they picked Webkit.

  21. to much me to by luther349 · · Score: 1

    with the wild success of android to many people where jumping on the mobile os train. even google has relisted this and are doing a chrome os android fusion pretty much getting rid of chrome os and keeping the good bits for use on andorid.

  22. Bingo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I won!

    (my round of bullshit bingo)

  23. Re:Guess what America?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean the war that Hillary voted in favor of and supported until it became politically convenient, then blamed on other people?

    She's really familiar with that tactic. After all, that's exactly what she did in Libya too.

  24. Android competition by fredness · · Score: 1

    Cheap 'poorly supported' Android smart phones with Linux underpinnings provide some licensing income for Google. Google I think also provides some funding for Mozilla. Firefox OS would potentially undermine Google's Android OS, the way Mozilla's free Let's Encrypt service is undermining over priced and deceptive SSL certificate vendors - which to me is a GOOD thing.

    Me thinks Mozilla Firefox OS has a rather large addressable market for free / low cost smart phone and TV's that Google would rather get licensing fees for. Expect there is a memo from Google to Mozilla about withdrawing Mozilla funding if Firefox OS becomes a viable threat to Google Android licensing.

    I would like to see a viable mobile OS besides iOS and Android. Browsers and connected apps are the killer use case for mobile devices, it really shouldn't just be Apple and Google, I think eventually some form of mobile OS that's essentially free will emerge. Maybe RedHat needs to get into this space with Fedora mobile then?

  25. Re:Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is sav by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    The whole mess reminds me of a joke from the East Bloc (it's kinda telling when old Soviet jokes start to work in the alleged "free" world...) where they actually allowed "free" elections where you got to choose between candidates the communist party offered. Of course it was bullshit because, well, two candidates of the same party, what kind of choice is that? So the following joke surfaced

    A man goes into a shop to buy a new vase. He finds the vase section with a lot of lovely red (in the US it would be red and blue) vases. He takes a look at one and notices it has a hole, rendering it worthless. He picks up the next, only to find that it, too, is leaking. He goes from one to the next and all of them are defective. He asks the clerk what kind of mockery this is. Surprised the clerk says "But sir, why do you complain, you have the free choice!"

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  26. Re:Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is sav by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    Yuri is waiting in line to vote, and the apparatchik gived him a sealed envelope containing his ballot, with instructions to put it in the ballot box. He starts to open the envelope, when the commissar says "Nyet, this is a SECRET vote, comrade."

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  27. Re:Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is sav by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    That doesn't work for our system. At least not yet. But how about this one. And since I don't want to play favorites, I'll tell it with the original names. You can replace Trump and Hillary with them, along with your favorite "slandering" news outlet.

    Message in glorious newspaper Prawda
    In a comparison competition between the imperialist Kennedy and our beloved leader Leonid Brezhnev, dear Leonid Brezhnev came in at the great second place while Mr. Kennedy only came in second to last.

    Also in the news
    Our glorious energy power plant at the Chernobyl site reports that they manage to complete the five year plan in power production in a mere five nanoseconds.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Re:Clinton and Trump fall off a bridge. Who is sav by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    And for porn, there's always Depravda

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  29. The end of a brilliant company turned into SJW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you follow an ideology instead of science that's what you get.
    Goodbye SjW pundits.