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Implication of Sabotage Adds Intrigue To SpaceX Investigation (washingtonpost.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Washington Post: The long-running feud between Elon Musk's space company and its fierce competitor United Launch Alliance took a bizarre twist this month when a SpaceX employee visited its facilities at Cape Canaveral, Fla., and asked for access to the roof of one of ULA's buildings. About two weeks earlier, one of SpaceX's rockets blew up on a launchpad while it was awaiting an engine test. As part of the investigation, SpaceX officials had come across something suspicious they wanted to check out, according to three industry officials with knowledge of the episode. SpaceX had still images from video that appeared to show an odd shadow, then a white spot on the roof of a nearby building belonging to ULA, a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Boeing. The SpaceX representative explained to the ULA officials on site that it was trying to run down all possible leads in what was a cordial, not accusatory, encounter, according to the industry sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation. The building, which had been used to refurbish rocket motors known as the SMARF, is just more than a mile away from the launchpad and has a clear line of sight to it. A representative from ULA ultimately denied the SpaceX employee access to the roof and instead called Air Force investigators, who inspected the roof and didn't find anything connecting it to the rocket explosion, the officials said. This week, ten members of Congress sent a four-page letter to several government agencies about the SpaceX explosion, raising the question as to whether or not SpaceX should be leading the investigation. Elon Musk said the investigation into what went wrong is the company's "absolute top priority." He added, "We've eliminated all of the obvious possibilities for what occurred there. So what remains are the less probable answers." SpaceX aims to resume flights in November.
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Elon Musk said "We've eliminated all of the obvious possibilities for what occurred there. So what remains are the less probable answers."
Solving a rocket failure is a complex task, on the order of magnitude of building a rocket from scratch.
Generating theories that pseudo-government entities utilize sabotage devices from a mile away seems a bit John Nash.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Rather than as an implication, it seems to be more about covering all their bases.
Ezekiel 23:20
who works in mysterious ways. Surely there is a reason borne of his wisdom and mercy. God willing the truth shall be revealed through the grace of Muhammad, praise be unto him.
Not only does the video link not match the description,
"video that appeared to show an odd shadow, then a white spot on the roof of a nearby building"
it's tantamount to a propaganda video of exactly the sort I'd pay for if I wanted to ridicule anyone conducting an actual investigation into my industrial sabotage. How the fuck did this get past Slashdot editors?
It's called a seagull...
You morons.
Only in lah lah land america..
Tesla crashes are always the user's fault, SpaceX explosions are sabotage...
Why ever worry about QC if you can blame all your failures on someone else?
The link to the SpaceX "evidence" is an alien conspiracy video. Anyway, I'm guessing SpaceX is implying ULA had a shooter on the building? A .50 anti-material rifle like a Barrett or a Tac-50 with a single HEIAP round could do the trick easily, space rockets are fragile little toys. Timed right it would look like a failure or the rocket and the chances of anyone finding any indication of what really happened after the resulting explosion would be pretty damn slim. Only things I could think of would be punctures opposite the force of the explosion and shell fragments (good luck finding those). Any residue from the shell would most likely be burned off (if you could find it to begin with).
But I don't think anyone with enough knowledge of rockets would be that stupid. If you didn't get it to explode immediately there's a good chance the damage would cause the rocket to veer off course. The range safety officer would initiate self-destruct or the rocket would finally explode at that point but either way you're putting other people and equipment at risk.
What is interesting is that SpaceX uses Pad 40 and ULA uses Pad 41 so taking out Pad 40 would not affect Pad 41 (insert ominous sound effect here).
Personally I'm now convinced it was aliens *cough*.
Where the fusk are the government agencies when it comes to Musk? I mean he rolled out self driving cars and those should pass a safety test, but they never did, and no agency is there to enforce the test. And he just rolled out an 'upgrade' to that autopilot, that can take highway exists, only as users testing it find, it does not slow down and they have to take manual control rapidly. WHY is it USERS who are testing the upgrade. WHY isn't the usual automotive agency testing these before they're rolled out to customers!? Where the f**k are the usual agencies when it comes to things related to Musk? Paypal was a bank in all but name, yet it managed to avoid any banking regulations, Tesla should not be rolling out autopilot without going through rigorous testing by the motor testing agency, and SpaceX failures are a matter for NASA, given it foots the bill.
How, as a customer, willing would you be to buy a rocket that is under threat of being sabotaged by another company.
Either a) the video shows a projectile about half a metre in size passing through and past the rocket (without impacting).
or b) Its a bee or similar sized insect about 30m from the camera (which is consistent with speed and size).
As to "industrial sabotage"... how? That would be a f**ing big bullet, and yet it continued on without being deflected. I mean it makes no sense because its nonsense.
Look, its always the same, stuff goes wrong with Musk rocket, cars or whatever and its a conspiracy! Remember the New York Times reviewer, who found the Tesla had crap range in the cold? He was told by Tesla support to drive it hard and warm up the batteries for better range, which he did, and stated in his review he'd done that, Musk pulls out that bit of telemetry and announces it is a conspiracy by car companies! Claims the reviewer drove it hard to flatten the battery! His car dies on Top Gear? Conspiracy! Nah it blew a fuse. A SpaceX rocket explodes? Conspiracy!
A man's car drives under a truck.... conspiracy, he's lying. Man drives into side of a truck and dies! He failed to notice the truck, what do you expect, he's a bad driver and in no way is autopilot to blame. A man hits fence posts autopilot didn't see. Liar! Liar! Conspiracy!
Give me a break.
The direction of their investigation was obvious from their previous release where they were talking about the breach in the helium system. They had a "large breach" that could not be explained, so what else fits the description better than a projectile? I was actually modded down for pointing that out (people saying you can't get within 8 miles of the launch etc), but, yeah, that's what they are looking at (among other things I assume). It is not that far-fetched I guess, I mean there are billions at stake here. And if you think about it, if you wanted to sabotage a rocket fueling would be the perfect time - low security compared to a launch (not to mention no bullet-time cameras etc rolling) and yet some activity that could be thought to be related to the cause. ;)
I'm not saying it was certainly sabotage, but, regardless of what Giorgio Tsoukalos might tell you, it is much more probable than aliens
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Given the amount of money at stake, I wouldn't put it past them to engage in a little bit of industrial sabotage.
The thing passing the rocket in the video doesn't hit it. It flies over. From the scale of the rocket, the bullet would be 20 inches plus. It's debris would be found if it hit, and if it missed it would be on the ground.
So no. Just a bit of Musk conspiracy nonsense again.
Hold up, we have found the culprit: the SMARFs did it.
James Bond did It... because that's what James Bond does, he takes out Bond Super-Villains.
SpaceX had still images from video that appeared to show an odd shadow
Which, as the linked video shows, was neither odd nor a shadow - I don't know why this was even included in the summary. It was never anything of interest to anyone but UFO kooks.
then a white spot on the roof of a nearby building belonging to ULA
That would be the more interesting image to see.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
The Congressmen in question here aren't exactly unbiased towards SpaceX, you'll note that they are all from places where ULA has major operations: Florida, Alabama, Colorado, Texas.
Now I wonder why would those folks have any interest in seeing SpaceX fail..hrmm.
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If it was actually a meteorite impact. Now that would be funny.
Why not? I'd put it beyond a USA based competitor. But doesn't musk eliminate the stranglehold the Russians have on launch vehicles?
Seriously makes me wonder :
- why there aren't super hi Def recordings from all angles
- better telemetry sensors
- line of sight protection similar to what presidents have. I've not heard anyone say that a shot from a mile away is impossible
Wish I had mod points for that one.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
They should be ashamed for calling something so technical and scientific "SMARF".
Your rocket exploded.
Deal with it.
What exactly would it take for a non-visible laser to be fired line of sight from the other building to the spacex launch site utilizing a man portable version of the hummvee/zumwalt mounted models to cause just enough thermal disruption to cause a catastrophic failure?
I personally go with the internal shell failure from the other day, but the available technology amongst the involved companies is certainly more than capable of doing that with the potential to not leave much visible evidence that could be directly correlated to it.
Besides, tell me that tlas wouldn't like a nice show of capable while keeping upcomings from destabilizing their otherwise tightly controlled and institutionalized space industry?
A corporate sabotage version is unbelievable. What if it comes out? Why do it from their own building?.. Won't believe it until an official admits in court they did it, and would doubt even then.
However, what about an employee going postal and acting on their own, out of envy, hatred, or fear of being laid off? It looks like it's possible to buy a suitable rifle in USA (I'm not a resident), so if only they could bring it to the building... And a ULA employee *should* be able to know when to shoot, and what happens if LOX equipment is hit.
That said, the chance is still beyond slim. On the other hand, making unsound sabotage accusations in this circumstances would be a PR suicide. SpaceX better have rock solid evidence if they do.
WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
he was personally shooting the rocket while riding a tiger without wearing a shirt.
surely hillary will help musk now that we know this...
SpaceX should start launching their rockets from a underground silo. A least if the rocket goes 'pop' it will be contained enough to flood the silo with nitrogen.
A corporate sabotage version is unbelievable. What if it comes out? Why do it from their own building?
ULA didn't, it was a 3d party using ULA's building. The ULA building provides a good location, but just as important it provides a good patsy. ;-)
All that sound is caused by rapidly moving air, turbulent air. Which would alter the trajectory of the bullet and possibly cause a miss.
When it happened I immediately thought this might be sabotage , but immediately thinking something is sabotage without any proof other than \
MOTIVE AT 100%
MEANS AT 100%
nets you a big downvote on slashdot.
Of course there is a very high probability it was sabotage (see above). Billions and billions of dollars are at stake and his opponents are old-school military-industrial complex contractors who know where a lot of bodies put there by important people are buried.
Don't look for the fed to pursue this at all. If Musk wants to prove it, he's on his own and the only court he has available to him is the court of public opinion.
Next up, Elon Musk dies in fiery crash traced to a flaw in Telsa software; total recall initiated by govt. Tesla files for bankruptcy.
Paypal was Elon's first Ponzi Scheme and each "company" he runs is just another exercise.
Elon knows that if SpaceX cannot get FAA re-certification then SpaceX and his Ponzi Scheme Dream of sending 100 dead human cadavers to Mars is dead and all the $$$$$$$$ loot will vanish into thin air.
Any bullet striking the LOX tank would immediately turn into an incendiary bullet - even ignoring the hot/molten aluminum it would spray into the tank (which most definitely burns). Long-range bullets are going to be either copper or steel jacketed, commonly with a steel penetrator, lead core. While the lead is iffy, both copper and steel will ignite in LOX under high shock conditions (and if there's anything that's a high shock condition, it's a bullet impact).
Everybody point at the libertarian and laugh.
Sorry, but the protocols for this were established back in the 1950s for investigating aircraft crashes - the investigation is lead by the civilian agency from the country where the plane was registered ; plane manufacturer, airline, engine manufacturer, agency where the debris landed, agencies for the countries with people killed and some others (e.g. ATC) have listening and often speaking rights. It's a well-established procedure. Why did anyone even waste a minute considering setting up a different system?
Oh, let me guess - spooks didn't want non-spooks to see what spooks do?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
I'm not saying it but .. Aliens.
The next time Slashdot provides exposure to one of that cranks videos, on the front page, I'm boycotting the site again (the last time being the Beta debacle...) - Slashdot puts up a lot of shíte on the front page, yet still maintains credibility as an interesting (or amusing...) source of information - but if it starts putting out that level of outright propaganda, then I'm boycotting the site, as I won't tolerate a site that supports outright propaganda like that.
Do Not provide exposure to cranks like that again.