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Images Show Further Damage To Great Barrier Reef, But Scientists Assure It's Not Dead (huffingtonpost.com)

New images of the Great Barrier Reef, the largest living thing on Earth, are alarming and show the extent of the damage climate change has caused to the coral. But it's not dead yet, scientists have assured, reports the HuffingtonPost citing several scientists. In April, researchers found that more than a third of corals in central and northern parts of the reef had been killed and 93 percent of individuals reefs had been affected by a condition known as coral bleaching (which happens when the water is too warm). New research shows the damage has worsened. A story, however, doing rounds on social media claims that the Great Barrier Reef has died. The viral story has been picked up by many well-read outlets, creating confusion among people. From a HuffingtonPost article: But as a whole, it is not dead. Preliminary findings published Thursday of Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority surveys show 22 percent of its coral died from the bleaching event. That leaves more than three quarters still alive -- and in desperate need of relief. Two leading coral scientists that The Huffington Post contacted took serious issue with Outside's piece (the misleading viral story), calling it wildly irresponsible. Russell Brainard, chief of the Coral Reef Ecosystem Program at NOAA's Pacific Islands Fisheries Science Center, told HuffPost he expects the article was meant to highlight the urgency of the situation. But those who don't know any better "are going to take it at face value that the Great Barrier Reef is dead," he said. The Spokesman-Review, in Spokane, Washington, fueled the myth Thursday, when it published a blog with the headline: "Great Barrier Reef pronounced dead by scientists." Brainard told HuffPost the recent bleaching event was a "severe blow" that resulted in serious mortality. Still, "we're very far from an obituary," he said.

99 comments

  1. Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    how quaint
    cant manishs do responsive design?
    how can you hope to be relevant in the age of reddit and mobile when mobile site is seperate
    this is the design philosophy of yesteryear
    why do you think slashdot media site runs on wordpress php instead of slashdot perl

    1. Re:Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading! by sims+2 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Shhhh! I don't want them to get any ideas about making the main site as broken as the mobile one.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  2. Don't improve facts, worsen characterization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Seems it was politically useful to describe them as "dead", facts notwithstanding.

    Not unusual, if highly annoying.

    Just amp up the negativity of the description, and if necessary change the definitions of basic words. Worked for "they let you do it".

  3. gawd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    your gettign news form the liberal canadian propoganda site...they are AWFUL.....another nail in coffn for why i just get news from real people in hte area rather then here or the nets lil govt buddies

    1. Re:gawd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't watch the news either. I just wear these:
      The Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses have been designed to help people develop a relaxed attitude to danger. They follow the principle "what you don't know can't hurt you" and turn completely dark and opaque at the first sign of danger. This prevents you from seeing anything that might alarm you.

  4. Its not dead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its probably pining for the fjords!

    1. Re:Its not dead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead!
      [A large man appears with a (seemingly) dead man over his shoulder]
      Large Man: Here's one.
      Dead Collector: Nine pence.
      "Dead" Man: I'm not dead.
      Dead Collector: What?
      Large Man: Nothing. [hands the collector his money] There's your nine pence.
      "Dead" Man: I'm not dead!
      Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
      Large Man: Yes he is.
      "Dead" Man: I'm not.
      Dead Collector: He isn't.
      Large Man: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
      "Dead" Man: I'm getting better.
      Large Man: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.
      Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
      "Dead" Man: I don't want to go on the cart.
      Large Man:' Oh, don't be such a baby.
      Dead Collector: I can't take him.
      "Dead" Man: I feel fine.
      Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.
      Dead Collector: I can't.
      Large Man: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
      Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
      Large Man: Well, when's your next round?
      Dead Collector: Thursday.
      "Dead" Man: I think I'll go for a walk.
      Large Man: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?
      "Dead" Man: I feel happy. I feel happy.
      [The collecter paces for an idea, then whacks the body with his club, solving the problem]
      Large Man: Ah, thank you very much.
      Dead Collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
      Large Man: Right.

    2. Re:Its not dead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did a search on pining. Found your post. Beat me to it.

  5. ex-parrotfish by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 3, Funny

    Images Show Further Damage To Great Barrier Reef, But Scientists Assure It's Not Dead

    It's not dead, it's just CRESTing!

  6. Not dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's only resting...

    1. Re:Not dead by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Look, matey, I know a dead reef when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Let's not forget... by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...that as a geological feature, the GBR is relatively new.

    As it only developed over the last 8000 years or so (since the last ice age) it's entirely possible that - in geological spans - the GBR is an ephemeral thing, like foam on the crest of a wave to us. To our short timeframe it seems permanent but it really isn't.

    I know, that's not part of the FUD-creed, so downvote me to oblivion.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey man why dont you post in your journal more
      it has been several years
      this isnt a good way to cultivate a following when I have to keep checking back to see if there is new content but there isnt

    2. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, well, your entire life span is also ephemeral in such a timeframe, does that mean that anything that happens to you is inconsequential? So I guess we should burn your house down with you in it. It's just ephemeral, we should keep burning houses with people in them.

      In this example, the house represents the Earth, you represent all life on Earth, and keep burning houses is the equivalent of spouting pseudo-intellectual emotional rubbish about geological spans instead of acting like an adult.

    3. Re:Let's not forget... by gnick · · Score: 1

      Yes, well, your entire life span is also ephemeral in such a timeframe, does that mean that anything that happens to you is inconsequential?

      Yes.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    4. Re:Let's not forget... by Layzej · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it's entirely possible that - in geological spans - the GBR is an ephemeral thing,

      I suppose we may find that many things are ephemeral during periods of rapid climate change.

    5. Re:Let's not forget... by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...that as a geological feature, the GBR is relatively new.

      As it only developed over the last 8000 years or so (since the last ice age) it's entirely possible that - in geological spans - the GBR is an ephemeral thing, like foam on the crest of a wave to us. To our short timeframe it seems permanent but it really isn't.

      I know, that's not part of the FUD-creed, so downvote me to oblivion.

      You are totally correct. The GBR wasn't there in the Pleistocene, when CO2 levels were higher than today.

      In fact when the GBR was getting started the Sahara desert wasn't a desert at all, it was lush grass and swamp land.

      Humans take such a short term view of things.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    6. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Humans take such a short term view of things.

      Probably because we don't live very long and can only survive under some very specific environmental conditions.

      If human survival is insignificant, then the state of the GBR isn't worth worrying about.

    7. Re:Let's not forget... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Humans take such a short term view of things.

      Probably because we don't live very long and can only survive under some very specific environmental conditions.

      If human survival is insignificant, then the state of the GBR isn't worth worrying about.

      I'm sure we could have survived in the Pleistocene. You have to be prepared to move around the planet a bit to find equitable habitats, something that the system of nation states interferes with. Perhaps we will have to do away with them to survive.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    8. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm sure we could have survived in the Pleistocene. You have to be prepared to move around the planet a bit to find equitable habitats, something that the system of nation states interferes with. Perhaps we will have to do away with them to survive.

      Pretty staggeringly naive, IMO. Unless by "we could have survived" you mean billions would perish but the species would not go completely extinct.

      I think there are a couple other hurdles to "find(ing) equitable habitats" than political borders.

    9. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think his point was this is ephemeral, in geologic timescales, regardless of climate change. But I guess you proved his point about getting downvoated/negative comments to his true statements.

    10. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are actually the one that is staggeringly naive. You are assume that these climate changes happen overnight such that someone could be caught out in the cold or caught in the desert and actually die. That is not how it would work. The change would be slow enough that poor places to live would be vacated and better placed would be inhabited. We don't generally live in northern Canada or the Sahara desert today but that doesn't mean a billion people are dead in those places because they are uninhabitable. On geologic timescales people can actually just die of old age and thus the "active" population of the world could change by billions but that doesn't mean billions "died" because of climate change. Maybe billions more weren't born? Even if true, I am not sure what that is a measure of.

      The idea that nation states would have to change is laughable. No single nation has lasted very long on geologic time standards. I am sure the identity of nations will be multiple times more fluid than changes to climate that would somehow affect borders. Regular human greed will change borders much more rapidly.

    11. Re: Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His comment was true but irrelevant. Just because the GBR won't survive the next ice age does not mean it is not valuable, to us, right now.

      Would you watch & do nothing while a bus sped towards an old guy standing in the road? Would you pull him to safety, or just hope the bus saw him and could stop in time, or turn away and tell yourself, "he wouldn't have lasted another decade anyway"?

      Perhaps you feel the progress of the bus is too important to slow down for ephemeral speedbumps like the GBR.

    12. Re: Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that this time, climate change isn't happening on geological timescales, it's happening within the scale of our lifetime - and there are billions of people who are too poor to cope.

      All it takes is a decade of drought, a little too much sea rise, or an unusually big storm surge salting croplands in a river delta, and hundreds of thousands can no longer live there. The refugees have to go elsewhere, eat something, which results in stress and conflict in neighboring areas.

      The Pentagon and other militaries have already predicted this, and you only have to look at Syria to see the results.

    13. Re: Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And you Americans think 5,000 Syrian refugees are scary?

    14. Re:Let's not forget... by HeckRuler · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...But the great barrier reef isn't a geological feature. Reefs aren't formed by geological processes.

      You could likewise say that as a astronomical feature, the GBR is relatively new only being 20,000 years old while it's closest star is formed 4.6 billion years ago.

      It's ecological. The coral is living stuff. The fish and plants which make up the ecosystem are all alive. They are not rocks waiting for the tectonic plates to move them around. It's like a forest or a rain jungle. They certainly operate on larger timescales than people are used to thinking about, but they are not geological or astronomical.

      Reefs are most certainly tied to geological features. They need shallow water at the right temperature. And change that and they'll die off. Just as much as if you somehow stop all the rain, the forests in California will all burn down.

      On an evolutionary timescale, the GBR has been around a long time and it's fostered some amazing specialists which have unique and possibly useful genetic traits. As we're right on the cusp of understanding the genetic code and reaping that useful insight and millennia of real-world testing and application, it'd be a shame to lose it.

      Of course it's not permanent and eternal. Nothing is. The sun will burn out and blow up eventually.

    15. Re: Let's not forget... by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      No, because old people smell funny and are a drain on the economy, that and he is going senile, hence why he is standing in the middle of the road. To do anything but let the bus run him over would be an unkind act.

    16. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are assume that these climate changes happen overnight such that someone could be caught out in the cold or caught in the desert and actually die.

      False.

      That is not how it would work.

      Of course not. The problem is that nobody knows how it would work. It is you who assumes too much. E.g. that if the current agricultural areas of the world becomes a huge desert, the proper terrain, soil conditions etc. will inevitably appear wherever the climate happens to shift into the correct range.

      Your theory requires a constant level of habitable terrain that humans merely need to move fast enough to exploit. It totally ignores the more likely scenario -- The Sahara will remain an uninhabitable dessert, and North America, South America, Australasia and Eurasia will join it.

    17. Re:Let's not forget... by hey! · · Score: 1

      Humans take such a short term view of things.

      [

      As well we should. I mean, I do take solace that something like the GBR will probably form at some other place millions of years in the future, but that's not really a substitute for being able to see what they once were in my lifetime.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    18. Re: Let's not forget... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Would you watch & do nothing while a bus sped towards an old guy standing in the road?

      How many buses will you set into motion in the process of saving this one guy and how many people will they run over?

      A key problem with climate change mitigation is that it doesn't take into account the harm that it causes, even to its own climate goals. Making a bunch of high fertility poor people is a great way to create future ecological problems among other things.

    19. Re:Let's not forget... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And what was the temperature? Coral doesn't care about co2.

    20. Re:Let's not forget... by Troed · · Score: 1

      Your theory requires a constant level of habitable terrain that humans merely need to move fast enough to exploit. It totally ignores the more likely scenario -- The Sahara will remain an uninhabitable dessert, and North America, South America, Australasia and Eurasia will join it.

      Why do you believe that your scenario is more likely, when it's not a scenario with any support in the climate science as documented by the IPCC?

    21. Re:Let's not forget... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      And what was the temperature? Coral doesn't care about co2.

      I think the co2 levels may be relevant to acidity which coral does care about.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    22. Re:Let's not forget... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Humans take such a short term view of things.

      [

      As well we should. I mean, I do take solace that something like the GBR will probably form at some other place millions of years in the future, but that's not really a substitute for being able to see what they once were in my lifetime.

      Then you better move fast and check things out. Many wonderful things in this world are temporary. Check out New Zealands 'pink and blue terraces', oops earthquake.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    23. Re:Let's not forget... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Slightly but the GP is right in claiming that Corals existed when CO2 was higher. So let's assume that he's right and that Corals are not related to CO2. That leaves us with two options:

      1. He believes corals aren't sensitive to temperature (this has been proven without a doubt to be false and you're more than happy to try this at home with a fishtank and overheat your water by only a couple of degrees).
      2. He believes CO2 isn't related to global warming which at this point is about as big of a WTF as you can get on a site that is supposed to have an intelligent tech minded readership which embraces science rather than politifiction.

    24. Re:Let's not forget... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Slightly but the GP is right in claiming that Corals existed when CO2 was higher. So let's assume that he's right and that Corals are not related to CO2. That leaves us with two options:

      1. He believes corals aren't sensitive to temperature (this has been proven without a doubt to be false and you're more than happy to try this at home with a fishtank and overheat your water by only a couple of degrees).
      2. He believes CO2 isn't related to global warming which at this point is about as big of a WTF as you can get on a site that is supposed to have an intelligent tech minded readership which embraces science rather than politifiction.

      I like that point about raising the temperature of the fish tank by a couple of degrees. If you raised the temperature by a couple of degrees over enough generations of fish I'm sure they'd be fine. How many generations is required, now thats the question.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    25. Re:Let's not forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On an evolutionary timescale, the GBR has been around a long time and it's fostered some amazing specialists which have unique and possibly useful genetic traits. As we're right on the cusp of understanding the genetic code and reaping that useful insight and millennia of real-world testing and application, it'd be a shame to lose it.

      No-one's stopping you from collecting this potentially "useful genetic code" before it disappears.

    26. Re:Let's not forget... by Xest · · Score: 1

      "Reefs are most certainly tied to geological features. They need shallow water at the right temperature. And change that and they'll die off. Just as much as if you somehow stop all the rain, the forests in California will all burn down."

      Just to clarify, that's not entirely true. It's true of some reefs such as the GBR for sure, but some go much deeper, and others can cope with distinctly different temperatures to those that the GBR sees, including down to about 2km and temperatures ranging from 4c up to about 35c.

      Some cold water and deeper reefs are just as teeming with life, and just as pretty, the GBR is famous largely because of it's scale, and tourist destination popularity.

    27. Re:Let's not forget... by Xest · · Score: 1

      Sure, if we increase the amount of funding for carrying out such tasks by several orders of magnitude.

      It'd be cheaper and easier to just protect it in the first place though.

    28. Re:Let's not forget... by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      Yes. And that's a very good thing to do. A useful act of conservation.

      But it helps to actually see some of it in action to know what you're looking for in the barely legible terabytes of genetic code. It only takes a couple of mantis shrimp to punch a hole in a few aquarium tanks to let scientists know that hey, maybe we should take a look at how they can get their pincers to accelerate at 10,400 g's.

      While the mantis shrimp is fairly well known with it's 8 families all with their own genus's and species, the reefs are just chock-full of these sort of things.

      Oh, and the raw base pair in DNA isn't the grand sum of genetic information. There's also how it coils around and how the grooves form. There's a concern that we'd lose something without knowing what it is we're supposed to be recording. So physical samples are better. And that takes size, space, tracking, which all sums up into a lot of cost.

  8. Coral Bleaching by cirby · · Score: 0, Troll

    "93 percent of individuals reefs had been affected by a condition known as coral bleaching (which happens when the water is too warm)" ...or when the water is too cold, or when the sun shines too much, or when the corals die off from diseases brought in by ecologists who swim around the area while getting paychecks for goofing around on a boat in the tropics...

    1. Re:Coral Bleaching by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      "93 percent of individuals reefs had been affected by a condition known as coral bleaching (which happens when the water is too warm)" ...or when the water is too cold, or when the sun shines too much, or when the corals die off from diseases brought in by ecologists who swim around the area while getting paychecks for goofing around on a boat in the tropics...

      As someone who has kept coral in aquariums for several decades, I'm not sure why this post was marked troll. Other than the the part about ecologists causing a bleaching event, it's pretty accurate, though I'm assuming that part was added for humorous effect.

      I tended to keep fairly high end systems which had brighter than average lighting. So I've witnessed coral bleaching due to it being kept in dimly lit systems at pet stores and holding facilities and then placed under much brighter lighting.

      I've also had heaters that the thermostat became faulty and brought the temperature up to 95F. In my case, conditions were optimal in the tank when this happened and no bleaching occurred. But I've also seen bleaching occur in a couple species in a tank when the temperature hit 90F due to a chiller malfunctioning in the summer.

      An individual coral colony can also bleach because a fish or other critter stresses it by picking at it. Nutrient runoff from farming can also cause bleaching, pH changes, etc. Coral is a very sensitive animal and does not do will with sudden changes or changes outside of its very small comfort zone for a lot of parameters. This includes light (brightness and wavelength), nutrient (or even inorganic particulate) content in the water, temperature, pH, water current (velocity and even oscillating vs. constant current. It can also suffocate from lack of current), oxygen content. Some marine invertebrates will only digest food that is of a specific type and size.

    2. Re:Coral Bleaching by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      Because this reef is not bleaching due to cold water, excess sunlight, or disease. It's bleaching due to warm water and the article points that out.

      It's like a news story about a man getting stabbed (which can be fatal), and someone pointing out that parenthesized information and stressing that diabetes can also kill people. That's true, but it makes them a troll.

    3. Re:Coral Bleaching by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Because this reef is not bleaching due to cold water, excess sunlight, or disease. It's bleaching due to warm water and the article points that out.

      I can't say I've read it, but did it mention fertilizer runoff in TFA? That was a major issue for the GBR for some time. What about current changes? Granted, that may be impacted by temperature changes, but it may not even be the temperature that is the root cause. It may be a combination of environmental changes, but the temperature is the simplest one for us to notice.

    4. Re:Coral Bleaching by Charcharodon · · Score: 2

      Cirby speaks the truth. Even that last bit. Go to any popular dive site and it will be half dead and picked clean of shells and other souvenirs. I have a favorite beach dive I do in......(not going to tell you). On the right side of the pier is where all the tourists go and it has nothing left but fish. Go on the left side of the pier where there is no beach access parking (damn those rich people and their condos) and it's a pain in the ass to haul your gear to and you can dive a Florida reef that they've claim doesn't exist anymore. It looks like a 1960's reef photo. Very pretty.

    5. Re:Coral Bleaching by cirby · · Score: 1

      ...except the article is pretty much full of crap.

      Sure, the scientists they interview claim it was warm water that caused the bleaching - but that warm water was a massive HALF A DEGREE above normal.

      The daily variance in temperature in pretty much every coastal water in the world is several times that.

      It's like a news story about a huge, complicated ecosystem that tries to pin the cause on one thing, when it was probably several things happening at about the same time. Or, to put it in your terms, "there were forty people shot in Chicago last night - that guy must have been really busy!"

    6. Re:Coral Bleaching by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      You have made some assumptions there. You assume that half a degree is not enough to cause problems with the corel. Sure, scientists have their laboratory tests and charts to back up their claims, but you trumped them with your CAPS LOCK key. Never mind that corel is particularly sensitive to temperature variation and so for them half a degree is actually massive.

      You also assume that the daily variance in temperature stops as soon as it gets warm. Could it not possibly be that the variance continues, but the peaks get hotter while it never gets as cold as it used to? The problem isn't that it gets hot for a short time, but if it stays hot for weeks at a time.

      You say that this is all crap, but you have no idea of what you are talking about. You accuse the scientists of simplifying the problem and yet think that the idea that you came up with in 10 minutes that it can get hotter for parts of the day is enough to demolish the view of people who spend every day studying this sort of thing.

  9. Historical context by Layzej · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Great Barrier Reef has been monitored by AIMS since 1980. The first mass bleaching event occurred in (then) record warm year 1998 when 50 per cent of the reefs suffered bleaching. The next in 2002 where 60 per cent of reefs were affected. In both events, about five per cent of the Great Barrier Reef's coral reefs were severely damaged. (compared to 22% now)

    The impact from this most recent bleaching event, the most widespread and severe ever recorded on the Great Barrier Reef, is still unfolding.

    1. Re:Historical context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Monitoring since 1980 is not really a long time as hard corals grow slowly for decades or longer. Really both soft and hard corals have no life-span since they are both individual and colonial animals. One of the same corals alive today could be a growth from a branch broken off a hundred years ago.

      It could be a natural cyclical bleaching and die off to make more room for younger healthier colonies.

      We certainly should try to limit pollution, carbon buildup and oceanic acidification, but lets not pretend like monitoring from the 1980s gives us complete insight in to how a biome works that has been around for thousands of years.

    2. Re:Historical context by Layzej · · Score: 5, Informative

      It does appear as though the hotter the world gets the worse things get for the coral. The bleaching events coincide with the hottest years on record.

    3. Re:Historical context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      This is true, but the same thing also happens during cooling events which have happened throughout history.

      Oceanic acidification is bigger danger really to encrusting animals and plants because if they can't form calcified structures, they can't live. Organisms can adapt fairly quickly to moderate shifts in temperature. It is a lot harder to adapt to having your skeletal structure melt.

    4. Re:Historical context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While there's no doubt that temperature has a major influence on both biology and chemical processes, perhaps we should consider other possible influences as well. Some might even be loosely correlated with temperature changes.

      Has anyone really studied the effects of induced Earth (including ocean) currents related to space weather? Even the sinkhole events around south-east AU seem to be correlated to space weather. These things are worthy of more research.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20...

      https://web.archive.org/web/20...

      https://web.archive.org/web/20...

      The data shown is transient, but who is to say that some reef damage doesn't occur in spurts??

    5. Re:Historical context by hey! · · Score: 2

      You know, irony usually ends badly around here.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Historical context by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

      For even more historical context, corals in general have been around for about half a billion years.

      They will be here long after homo sapiens is no more.

    7. Re:Historical context by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The great barrier reef also dies every ice age, when it comes a coastal feature a hundred odd metres above the high tide mark, they have cores in the coral that prove it. A little more concern about coastal cities and little less concern about coral reefs might be well in order though. The current head in the sand approach to under water front properties, just ignoring it all, seems to be pretty poorly considered, just dumping that problem on future generations and doing nothing about it, except of course getting rich making it worse.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:Historical context by doccus · · Score: 1

      I expected someone to surely quote "Excuse me, I'm not quite dead". What hath happenend to thy wit, /.?

    9. Re:Historical context by idji · · Score: 1

      And the time between the bleachings is not long enough for the corals to recover.

  10. Not the largest organism by avatar4d · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Confucius say: "Man who associates with smarter men than himself is smarter than the men he associates with."
    1. Re:Not the largest organism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a very irrational thing to say about a chain a reefs, that are each made up of many different species of coral.

      If we accept roughly 2,300 square kilometers of mixed biology as "a living thing", then we must also accept roughly 5,500,000 square kilometers of mixed biology as "a living thing" which means that the Amazon Rainforest has this reef collection beat by three decimal places and a bit more.

      But on your point, yes, that mega-shroom wins on more coherent definitions of "a living thing", and I remember a species of tree has similar behavior with many trunks growing from a singular root structure. (though I blank on the name)

    2. Re:Not the largest organism by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      If we accept roughly 2,300 square kilometers of mixed biology as "a living thing", then we must also accept roughly 5,500,000 square kilometers of mixed biology as "a living thing" which means that the Amazon Rainforest has this reef collection beat by three decimal places and a bit more.

      I'll see your rainforest and raise you the boreal forest

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re: Not the largest organism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pando

  11. Natural selection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They should just move further south to cooler waters. Unless they're lowlife corals who wont' get a job and are just leaching off the system, in which case they can rot in their dependency hell until the die and make room for more productive members of society to take over and turn the place into luxury flats.

    1. Re:Natural selection by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      You jest, but that is exactly how nature works. She'll kill off anything to stupid/lazy to live.

      Ever wonder why Liberals the party of "science" and especially evolution are the ones who object the loudest of it being applied to people?

    2. Re:Natural selection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ever wonder why Liberals the party of "science" and especially evolution are the ones who object the loudest of it being applied to people?

      I did notice that Social Darwinism seems to be the pet "science" of Conservatives.

    3. Re:Natural selection by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      There is a world of difference between social Darwinism, "Only the strong survive" also known as "we aren't going to kill you but we aren't going to try to save you either" and the policies of eugenics where the elites actively trimmed out the undesirable in society. See George Bernard Shaw for a famous socialist who pushed that agenda. The other big socialist/communist eugenics programs can be easily found under Hitler and Stalin and Mao. (Yes Hitler was a socialist, look it up already and stop being an ass.)

    4. Re:Natural selection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's stupid, very very stypid.
      First, Hitler was not a socialist, nobody seriously clings to the party name. Nobody questions that Neo-Nazis are far right. Nazism and Fascism was right, that was why Hitler bombed the city of Guernica for his right wing pal Franco.
      Then, George Bernard Shaw never claim for "only the stong to survive". The early eugenists had a very poor understanding of genetics, but they only thought that people would not care for their own genes in their descendants if they could have better genes. Ie: that if you were genetically inferior you would welcome raising another man's genetic son as your own. Of course, that's stupid both in disregarding human nature as in assuming that you can completely judge who's genetically superior.
      OTOH, what they thought is not much different of what we'll have when the designer babies come. Its only that we'll be editing at gene level rather than copying&pasting the whole DNA bunch from a "superior" individual.

    5. Re:Natural selection by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      I thought I told you to stop being an ass. ;)

      Come on, only the left tries to claim Hitler was far right, as they do with many things from their collective past that make them look bad. If you look at their policies, outside the race superiority non-sense, they look just like a liberal/socialist policy check list: Heavy government regulation of all things, strict economic controls, cradle to grave social programs, public schools, etc.

      From a hard liberal view I can see how a Neo-Nazi looks "far right". This a relative thing only because they are so far left. From where I am sitting a Neo-Nazi is just an aggressive bigoted liberal, vs the modern more tolerant passive-aggressive PC (polite society bigotry) progressive liberal. If political position were houses on a street, they would be just a few houses over from one another, while classical liberals (libertarians), aka "the far right", would be 5 miles down the road out in the country.

      "Only the strong survive" comes from social Darwinism." Bernard was a eugenicist not a Darwinist. He wanted to actively deal with thing he saw as problematic not just let nature take it's course. That meant getting rid of the trash taking up valuable space and breeding programs to improve the future. He would be more like a gardener or a rancher.

      Designer babies may use some of the same tools as eugenics, but the philosophy is worlds apart. I have no problem with them as long as it is completely voluntary. What people do to themselves is up to them, just don't force me to participate or pay for it. Comparing people wanting to have healthy children or specific traits is vastly different than marching people off to gas chambers because they have a big nose, a low IQ, or lazy.

      Bernard as with nearly all socialists believe they (ruling elite/government) should have the power to force their views and policies on public. In that case Hitler was very much the socialist.

    6. Re:Natural selection by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Come on, only the people who know what they're talking about tries to claim Hitler was far right,

      Fixed that for you.

      However, I have to admit that, if unicorns are green, the Moon is symphonic. You have taken a list of things that you project on Nazi Germany, many of which have nothing to do with socialism, and concluded that National Socialism was in some sense leftist or socialist. There was a socialist, possibly leftist, wing to the party, but that was eliminated in the 1930s. The party after that was dictatorial and nationalist and heavily capitalistic, and is therefore classified as right-wing. Until 1944, Germany's war economy was less centrally controlled than that of the US or UK. Some things were regulated, some essentially weren't. There was no particular rhyme or reason to this.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  12. Stick to tech news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks!

  13. In the meantime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Envirowackos are disappointed that Mathew wasn't worse

  14. Okay then what do they suggest. by coolmoe2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Taking the HG wells time machine back a few decades when we could have probably saved it? Even if all greenhouse gasses were stopped completely right this second its going to take a very long time for the earth to trap that carbon again and start returning to normal temperatures. So call it now or call it later but I really can't see what can be done about it at this point.
    Maybe if we act on carbon caps we can save some of what is still alive in the ocean.

    1. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excess co2 in the atmosphere has a half-life on the order of a few decades. Also, the greater the excess, the greater the rate of absorbtion by the various sinks. Given that China's economy is beginning to mature, co2 emissions could be approaching a plateau. It's entirely plausible that co2 concentrations might peak before they ever double, with or without any preventative action.

      I suggest do nothing. Well, maybe pick some low hanging fruit, but let the developing nations enjoy the perks of western life.

    2. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter... carbon caps or if we never became industrial the earth is going to get a lot warmer regardless just not as fast before we have another ice age then it'll be much colder unless we manage to learn how to control the climate.

    3. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Maybe we could install a thermostat. Then we could fight over what temperature we should keep it on. I vote for 72 (Fahrenheit of course).

    4. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by hey! · · Score: 1

      The rate at which change happens matters; as to the geographic extent over which changes take place.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if we act on carbon caps ...

      Why does everyone forget the global temperature drops whenever a volcano erupts? We need a method to throw a few million tonnes of ash into the air on a daily basis. Actually we have one but we need a method that doesn't cause acid rain.

    6. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by Xest · · Score: 1

      That's kind of the point though, it's not the change that's the problem, it's the rate of change.

      If it happens much more slowly then species can adapt through natural selection and evolution, the problem is right now that we're causing the change to happen too quickly for species to evolve, hence why this is regularly being referred to as a mass extinction event.

    7. Re:Okay then what do they suggest. by Xest · · Score: 1

      Actually it doesn't take that long for Earth to trap that carbon again, trees and plant life can do that incredibly quickly and efficiently. The problem is that right now we're both pumping out way more than they can trap, and cutting the amount of carbon dioxide absorbing biomass that existing by destroying forest (and producing more carbon dioxide) too.

      The solution is to reduce the amount we churn out, and stop destroying Earth's natural sink in such a ridiculously unsustainable manner. Do that and we're talking about seeing correction well within a human lifespan.

      When we stop repopulation will occur, so it's not simply about saving what's left, if we can halt the decline we can also achieve recovery for many not yet already extinct species.

  15. Queue Monty Python by pseudorand · · Score: 3, Funny

    Great Barrier Reef: I'm not quite dead yet!
    Global Warming: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
    Science: Yes he is
    Great Barrier Reef: I'm not
    Science: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill
    Great Barrier Reef: I'm getting better
    Science: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

    How is it that no one beat me to this post here on slashdot?

    1. Re:Queue Monty Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cue.

    2. Re:Queue Monty Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You made me laugh!

    3. Re:Queue Monty Python by kosh271 · · Score: 1

      Great Barrier Reef: I'm not quite dead yet!
      Global Warming: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
      News Outlets: Yes he is
      Great Barrier Reef: I'm not
      News Outlets: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill
      Great Barrier Reef: I'm getting better
      News Outlets: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

      Fixed it for you. Sensational stories drive clicks.....

    4. Re: Queue Monty Python by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the *scientists* saying it's not dead yet. It's right there in the headline.

    5. Re: Queue Monty Python by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, you're seriously fact-checking a Monty Python reference?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re: Queue Monty Python by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Some people just suck the joy out of everything.

    7. Re:Queue Monty Python by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      How is it that no one beat me to this post here on slashdot?

      I'd like to say that it's because all Slashdot users (yourself apart) know that one waits in the stage wings to hear your CUE to come on stage (as the director would have said a couple of seconds before the "I wish to make a complaint" hit the film/ tape in 1969, "and CUE Cleese..."), while you form an orderly QUEUE of one person behind the other to use the street-corner suicide booths in Futurama.

      Unfortunately we both know that's not true. Slashdot seems to be the home of homophone confusion.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    8. Re:Queue Monty Python by pseudorand · · Score: 1

      No, I meant that I figured there would be so many people wanting to make this monty python reference that there would be a queue to do so. How did I end up first in the queue? Why would anyone need to wait for a cue to make a Monty Python reference on slashdot?

      No go back to eating your donuts (or doughnuts, if you prefer) grammar police.

  16. Re:OK they're almost dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tetchy mods! Guess I should have put /s ?

  17. I feel terrible for being alive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time for humanity to drink the People's Temple brand kool-aid to save the earth! /s

  18. "thing" Is that a scientific term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If "living thing" is a name for an area dense with living organisms, wouldn't most of the continents be bigger?

  19. Coral reefs by Charcharodon · · Score: 3, Informative
    Couple items for those of you who don't spend much time underwater.

    1. The mineral structure, the big rocky stuff that sinks pirate ships that run afoul the reef, IS...NOT...ALIVE... Never has been, never will be. It is merely the mineral deposits that corals deposit on things to use as a base on which to grow. So when they go on an on about it being thousands of years old and being the largest organism on the planet, they are either woefully ignorant or blatantly lying. It's like saying the human race is the biggest organism on the planet because we build cities and have people everywhere. Scratch off the top inch of a reef and you have hit the dead stuff.

    2. Corals do not take thousands of years to grow. They take days, weeks, and sometimes months to grow. Many spawn free swimming and drifting larva every lunar cycle or so (full moon).

    3. That's right boys and like the 2 girls here, corals are not plants, they are animals that cultivate algae inside themselves to use as a food source. That is the dreaded "bleaching" they are always worried about. Bleaching does not always equal death to a coral, nor is it always cause by a change in temperature. Disease, stress, salinity, water chemistry, water clarity, sand settling, and people (touching, nets, poisons, boats etc.) all cause that. Sometimes the corals dump the algae in order to get a more productive local algae to grow. Corals also catch and eat various things, hence why the bleaching is not a death sentence.

    4. Coral reefs are not static. They move over time. When they spawn they dump millions of larvae into the currents which spread everywhere. If they find a spot that is favorable they will start a new reef. Storms break up the reefs and the chunks can go on to form new reefs or end up in dead spots on the old reef and patch the holes. So when they go on about parts of a reef dying, yep it probably is. Is that normal? Depends on why. A reef being smothered by runoff silt, probably not. Water temps changing, yep happens all the time. Currents and regional temps have never been static, they move and change with time. The reef will die off during the change. Temperature tolerant organism will take over, and when the temperature shifts back they too will move on or die and the corals will take over again....growing right back on top of the "dead" reef" like nothing ever happened..

    5. Coral reefs can be replaced at an time in locations they find favorable by the average person. They'd like you to think that only dedicated government certified highly trained scientists are the ones capable of dealing with the problem. Not even remotely true. There is an entire cottage industry in the aquarium trade of people who grow corals in their homes. Those same techniques are used often to repopulate areas that have been damaged much in the same way you would replant trees after a hurricane. I personally have been kicking the idea around for years of building my own patch reef offshore for fun and profit down here in Florida away from the well known dive spots loved to death by tourists.

    I love the ocean and spend is much time in it as I can, but I grow weary of the shrill land lubbers claiming to know what is best, if only we would just put them in charge. Fuck that. If the government was in charge of the ocean there would be a shortage of sand within 10 years.

    1. Re:Coral reefs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spending a lot of time in the water does not necessarily make one a marine biologist. You're right about a lot of what you say, but some of it is incorrect:

      "1. The mineral structure, the big rocky stuff that sinks pirate ships that run afoul the reef, IS...NOT...ALIVE... Never has been, never will be. It is merely the mineral deposits that corals deposit on things to use as a base on which to grow. So when they go on an on about it being thousands of years old and being the largest organism on the planet, they are either woefully ignorant or blatantly lying."

      You're correct that the rock isn't alive, but it is inhabited by a lot of micro organisms such as bacteria, that are necessary for the coral to grow. This is why it's called a single living organism in the same way that humans don't just exist in isolation - we too are dependent on millions of micro-organisms to survive too. It's not just dead rock with coral on, it's dead rock with a whole ecosystem of creatures that allow the coral to survive and grow. I do somewhat agree with the "biggest living organism" description being a bit silly though all the same because all this applies to things like the Brazilian rainforests too.

      "That is the dreaded "bleaching" they are always worried about. Bleaching does not always equal death to a coral, nor is it always cause by a change in temperature."

      Whilst true, this is only half the story, coral can indeed survive bleeching but it drastically weakens them making them prone to disease and so forth. Saying bleeching doesn't kill coral is like saying cancer doesn't kill people - of course it doesn't always, but it can and it really depends how bad the cancer, or bleeching is. Sometimes there's just a point at which recovery just isn't possible.

      "Water temps changing, yep happens all the time. Currents and regional temps have never been static, they move and change with time. The reef will die off during the change. Temperature tolerant organism will take over, and when the temperature shifts back they too will move on or die and the corals will take over again....growing right back on top of the "dead" reef" like nothing ever happened.."

      This is probably the part I take most issue with, because it's again only a partial truth, but an incredibly dangerous and naive one. It tries to paint what's currently going on with the oceans as normal, and that's simply not true. The whole point of the problem is that the temperature in the oceans from global warming is happening at such a rate that species can't in fact adapt, which is why they're dying off at increasing rates. Natural selection takes time, but if the change is too drastic then there isn't sufficient time to adapt and that's precisely the problem and the reason for the reduction in size of the living portion of the GBR.

      "5. Coral reefs can be replaced at an time in locations they find favorable by the average person. They'd like you to think that only dedicated government certified highly trained scientists are the ones capable of dealing with the problem. Not even remotely true. There is an entire cottage industry in the aquarium trade of people who grow corals in their homes."

      You make it sound more trivial than it is, doing this at home isn't easy and requires constant monitoring, it's only made more easy now because we have machines that constantly measure the water and inject additional chemicals to keep things balanced where necessary. It's certainly easier in the natural enviroment for sure, but nature already does this anyway - we can't really do it better, only do it in different places. If that's repopulation it may well be a reasonable option, but if it's for the sake of it then there's a risk of replacing other native species with non-native species which can cause additional problems.

      "I love the ocean and spend is much time in it as I can, but I grow weary of the shrill land lubbers claiming to know what is best, if only we would just put them in charge. Fuck that. If the government was in charge of the