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Orbital ATK Returns To Flight With Successful Antares Launch To Space Station (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The Orbital ATK Antares rocket -- the same rocket that exploded on its way to the International Space Station two years ago -- returned to flight today with a much-anticipated launch. Lifting off from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia, the Antares rocket is now on its way to deliver the Cygnus spacecraft filled with over 5,000 pounds of cargo to crew members aboard the ISS. Today's launch was particularly special for Orbital ATK, a company contracted by NASA to deliver 66,000 pounds of cargo to the ISS through 2018. After their Antares rocket exploded during a launch in 2014, destroying thousands of pounds of experiments and cargo bound for the space station, Orbital ATK worked for two years to upgrade that rocket and prepare for its return to flight. Today, the Orbital ATK was finally able to fly Cygnus on top of their own rocket again. The RD-181-equipped Antares rocket carried Cygnus, which housed science experiments and supplies for the ISS crew, for their fifth operational cargo resupply mission for NASA. Along with crew supplies, spacewalk equipment and computer resources, Cygnus will bring over 1,000 pounds of science investigations to the five crew members on the ISS. One of those experiments is Saffire-II, the second Saffire experiment to be conducted inside Cygnus in order to study realistic flame propagation in space. Cygnus will spend over a month attached to the ISS. In late November, the spacecraft will be filled with about 3,000 pounds of trash and then released to begin its descent back to Earth. During reentry through Earth's atmosphere, the spacecraft, along with trash and Saffire-II, will be destroyed.

68 comments

  1. Why dump the trash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's raw material for in-orbit manufacturing. Each kg of that cost a lot to be put up there.

    We humans always dumping the valuable trash. Disgusting.

    1. Re:Why dump the trash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with any luck, the capsule won't disintegrate and does the world a big huge giant favor on november 9th.

    2. Re:Why dump the trash? by Rei · · Score: 1

      And they fall back to Earth on their own; LEO is not a perfect vacuum, and drag still exists. The point of a controlled deorbit maneuver is that it's controlled.

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    3. Re:Why dump the trash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think they can target it well enough to be assured of it striking Trump Tower without risking innocent lives.

    4. Re: Why dump the trash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because then Joe Dirt won't have a big ol space turd to have as a pet friend.

    5. Re:Why dump the trash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And they fall back to Earth on their own; LEO [...]

      Yeah, I understand that much. But what would cost more: keep that stuff up there for a while (you got to expend a bit on some acceleration), or hauling an equivalent mass of titanium, aluminium, whatsit next time it's needed?

      For all those folks considering manufacture on Mars (or the Moon): how much start capital is there on those high-end materials half-up Earth's gravity well?

    6. Re:Why dump the trash? by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      keep that stuff up there for a while

      Yeah, they could just store it in all that extra space they don't have.

      or hauling an equivalent mass of titanium, aluminium, whatsit next time it's needed?

      1) The trash is mostly plastic

      2) You seem to envision that there's some sort of little magical manufacturing box that takes random trash as inputs and produces random useful things engineered to spacecraft tolerances as outputs. The real world doesn't work that way. In the real world, trash is a jumbled mix of materials in an extremely wide range of forms, often inseparable, while manufacturing processes require carefully controlled input streams, which differ for each desired output product. Some random food pouch may be comprised of various bulk polymers like polyethylene, polypropylene, etc, with an aluminized EVOH lining or similar. Think you can break it back down into polyethylene beads, polypropylene beads, EVOH gel and aluminum dust? Yeah, good freaking luck with that.

      I know it's popular in sci-fi circles to envision that it's cheaper to make things in space. But in the real world, it distinctly is not. Yes, launch costs are expensive, but even more expensive is labour in space and the engineering costs to make each potential type of new production system. Unlike in sci-fi, you can't just magick these things into existence.

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    7. Re:Why dump the trash? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering how it could take out both Hillary and Trump, and their running mates in one shot, after all, that is the only thing that would improve anything.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    8. Re:Why dump the trash? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I think AC was suggesting that the capsule is useful, not necessarily the trash they deorbited with it, but I understand what you are saying too; without the capsule, it is rather difficult to deorbit the trash.

      Most of the trash is likely the food containers and biological waste, I don't know what else they have up there that they need to get rid of, but it isn't like we have massive farms attached to the ISS to utilize the fertilizer people output.

      Maybe that would be a good addition to the station, a farming module.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Satellites monitor global warming by Traf-O-Data-Hater · · Score: 4, Informative

    Guess how satellites that monitor global warming, weather, ocean current, polar ice and a whole lot more get up there so they can, as you ask, "solve real issues like climate change"?
    Think before you post.

    1. Re:Satellites monitor global warming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NONE of that requires people floating at the edge of the atmosphere.

      Think before you reply.

  3. Re:Great, now let's do something useful instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, I was with you for a while. The position that there are more pressing problems "down here" and we should allocate resources to them is respectable and worth discussing. Personally, I'm torn on that.

    Once you mentioned Trump as a "solution" to that...

    Trump? Solution? You must be kidding.

  4. What's a pound? by MayeulC · · Score: 1

    4.45 Newtons. Just kidding. On earth, it is approximately 0.45kg, according to Google. That makes 1.36 tons of trash, 453kg of experiments, for over 2.27 tons of cargo, and a contract for around 30 tons. That is, if we are speaking of earth-bound pounds, because those are meaningless in space; unless you take the more recent kilogram-aligned definition. Man, units are complicated.

    1. Re:What's a pound? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On earth, 4.45 Newtons. Just kidding. It is approximately 0.45kg, according to Google.

      ftfy. Pound-force is dependant on gravity, pound-mass is not.

    2. Re:What's a pound? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. In fact, both units measure different realities:

      Mass -> pound (lb) = 0.45359237 kg.
      Force -> pound-force (lbf) = 4.4482216152605 N.

      You can find these and many other conversion factors here (part of a unit-parsing library which I have recently developed).

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    3. Re: What's a pound? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The doctors here switched to metric. Now I get to deal with kg force. Joy.

    4. Re: What's a pound? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but kilogram-force isn't metric (better: SI, which is the current version of the metric system) despite kilogram being the mass unit. The SI unit of force is newton.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
    5. Re: What's a pound? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this. The doctors don't. They just swapped pound for kilogram everywhere with the conversion factor.

    6. Re: What's a pound? by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      I am not sure what you are talking about, but there is no problem in using conversion factors to convert from pound-force (lbf) to any other force unit (newton, kilogram-force, etc.). Note that the fact of belonging to different systems (i.e., metric vs. non-metric) is precisely what makes a conversion required. You might also convert (via simple conversion factor too) between two mass units like kilogram and pound (lb or lbm).

      In one of my comments above, I am posting a link to the conversion-factor part of a library I developed where the different units are classified by type. All the units belonging to the same type can be converted among them (the factors are calculated with respect to the reference unit for the given type, whose value is always 1).

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  5. Re:Great, now let's do something useful instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Help stop climate change. Turn off your computer.

  6. Re:Great, now let's do something useful instead by idji · · Score: 4, Informative

    A lot of the raw data to monitor climate change is space-based data. We now know where the energy goes into weather and seas, and we can see forest and agricultural usage only from space. This will give us the tools we need to enforce climate change.
    Beautiful photos and videos from the cameras on the Space Station, and human damage seen from there will have a massive impact on people's passion to see this earth fixed and cared for.
    go and spend a while looking at https://www.nasa.gov/topics/ea...
    https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/1238...
    http://www.nasa.gov/feature/go...
    https://weather.com/tv/shows/t...
    Space Science is going to help us understand how El Nino and El Nina work - and that is critical for the lives of millions of Americans.
    Yes, porkbarreling by Senators for useless space projects needs to stop. That is why NASA is supporting SpaceX, etc and focusing themselves on deep space missions like Pluto and Juno.
    Anyone living on the Moon or Mars will be living underground. Humanity will move to the stars - we will solve these problems.
    Look at the Space Budget, and the War Budget and see where money is really being wasted. Fix the health bureaucracy in America if you want to see money not being wasted.

  7. Definition of a pound by sjbe · · Score: 1

    4.45 Newtons.

    More precisely 4.4482216152605 Newtons.

    On earth, it is approximately 0.45kg, according to Google.

    Doesn't matter if it is on Earth or not since it is defined in relation to standard gravity.

    A pound of mass is defined as exactly 0.45359237 kg by definition.

    1. Re:Definition of a pound by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You mean american pounds?
      The german pound is exactly 500gram, aka 0.5kg :) JFYI.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:Definition of a pound by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      I do use Wikipedia quite often and it is certainly a quite good source of information, mainly to get a general picture about more or less generic issues. On the other hand, its reliability isn't that good when dealing with somehow more specialised facts (usually, even worse in some non-English versions).

      When I was developing the aforementioned unit-parsing library (see my comment above, the one containing basically the same information than yours), I made relevant research and cross-validation efforts to find all the conversion factors. Although Wikipedia was definitively quite helpful on this front, I did find a relevant number of errors and/or incomplete references about units of measurement there.

      Wikipedia does seem an excellent source for more or less complex concepts (e.g., force/mass or lb/lbf), but it isn't that reliable when dealing with specific facts like the conversion factors you are linking. On the other hand and although I did pay special attention to these hardcoding aspects, my library is logically no absolute reference either (too new, too unclear my exact knowledge/implication, etc.). I think that official/governmental/well-stablished/expert/university references are much more recommendable for these situations, by bearing in mind that they might also be wrong (I did find errors almost everywhere while performing the aforementioned research).

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  8. Pound (force) definition by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Pound-force is dependant on gravity, pound-mass is not.

    Not quite. Pound-force is defined based on an arbitrary reference value for acceleration under standard gravity but is not actually dependent on gravity as the definition of a pound (force) does not change as gravity changes. The mass used in the equation is the international standard avoirdupois pound which is defined as exactly 0.45259237kg. If you go into space a pound-force is still the same value. A scale would lose its ability to measure it but that doesn't change the value of a pound. A standard pound-force can be converted directly into Newtons at all times with the same conversion factor ( 4.4482216152605 Newtons )

    When people say you "weigh less on the Moon" what they are doing is saying that if we change the acceleration in the calculation to the value for the local gravitational force then we get a different number. But the definition of the standard pound (force) doesn't change regardless of the local gravitational field any more than the definition of a Newton would change.

    1. Re:Pound (force) definition by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      is not actually dependent on gravity

      The definition of pound force depends on the factor 9.8... m/s2 which never changes, also called gravity. In the extremely-improvable case that the acceleration of gravity will be redefined to 9.9, the definition of pound-force would also have to be modified accordingly. Apparently, you misinterpreted "gravity" as "actual acceleration being considered to calculate lbf from lb"; or as lbf being different in a place outside Earth (what wasn't implied in the AC's comment).

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  9. Avoirdupois pound by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You mean american pounds?

    Specifically I'm referring to the international pound sometimes called the Avoirdupois pound which is by far the most commonly used measurement by the name of pound.

    1. Re:Avoirdupois pound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, the pound sterling is more commonly used...

    2. Re:Avoirdupois pound by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Rofl.
      This countries use that strange pound: The six nations were the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. (copied from the wiki article)
      So it is first of all debatable if is the most used pound and secondly we can assume there are plenty of countries that don't use any pound at all, which of course does not contradict your 'most used pound'.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  10. Antares 200: not quite the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The Antares that just flew is the same chassis but different motors, and the old explodey one is retired. These new ones are Antares 200.

  11. Arbitary definitions by sjbe · · Score: 1

    The definition of pound force depends on the factor 9.8... m/s2 which never changes

    It never changes because it's defined based on an arbitrarily agreed upon value for what to use for Earth's gravity on the surface. While they could I suppose redefine the pound if Earth's gravitational field changed that would have to be an affirmative action - it would not automatically change because the reference value is a chosen one, not a natural one. Bear in mind that acceleration due to gravity is not uniform on the Earth's surface because the Earth is not a perfect sphere and it does not have uniform density and is changing constantly as the Earth's mass changes. As a result scientists have agreed to use a nominal value instead of the real one since there is no single real value. Any value chosen for the definition of the standard pound (force) will be an arbitrary number not subject to changes in the gravitational pull of the Earth.

    Apparently, you misinterpreted "gravity" as "actual acceleration being considered to calculate lbf from lb";

    No misinterpretation at all. We are talking about a force here when defining the pound (force). Force = mass * acceleration. For purposes of defining the pound (force) we are talking about the rate of acceleration due to gravity under a standard (nominal earth's surface) gravitational field. So any reference to gravity in this context is in reference to the acceleration under a specific set of conditions that happen to correspond to the nominal gravitational force experienced on Earth surface.

    1. Re:Arbitary definitions by CustomSolvers2 · · Score: 1

      could I suppose redefine the pound if Earth's gravitational field changed that would have to be an affirmative action - it would not automatically change because the reference value is a chosen one, not a natural one

      A change might also be provoked by an improvement in the precision of our technology (very unlikely to happen) or an agreement on a different value. These situations have happened relatively often by also affecting some inter-related units (e.g., the new AU value affected other units like parsec). If such a modification occurred, the pound-force definition would certainly be updated.

      For purposes of defining the pound (force) we are talking about the rate of acceleration due to gravity under a standard (nominal earth's surface) gravitational field

      A force is defined as a function of mass (any) and acceleration (any). The force unit in metric units is defined according to such generic ideas; that's why one newton equals kg*m/s2 (i.e., mass unit * acceleration unit). On the other hand, the English-system-based units are defined according to a different approach: each of them individually. The newton can always be divided into its constituent units; the pound-force cannot, because it has no constituent units. To convert pound-force to newtons (or to other force units; or to relate it to the corresponding mass unit, if you prefer), it was decided to rely on the constant acceleration of gravity. That's why pound-force depends on gravity (understood as the commonly-accepted constant) and its definition would have to be updated in case of changing such a constant.

      In any case, note that the whole point of my comment was highlighting that the original statement "depends on gravity" was right; at least, as I understood it: a reference to the used-everywhere constant acceleration of gravity. Your comment interprets the word "gravity" in a way which, in my opinion, neither was that AC's intention nor is a usual interpretation. I do use gravity as synonym to 9.8... m/s2, commonly-accepted-as-acceleration-of-gravity constant and most of people get my intention right.

      --
      Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
  12. No snipers this time by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    Luckily enough, there were no snipers on the roof of the ULA building this time

    1. Re:No snipers this time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would have been a hell of a shot from Florida to Virginia..

  13. Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 2

    The RD-181-equipped Antares rocket

    Mentioned only in passing, the RD-181 is Russia-designed and created rocket engine...

    While lower-level Democrats are gleefully spreading rumours about Trump being a Putin's man, the Democratic Administration continues to buy this high technology from the adversary. In a typical manifestation of hair-splitting, even though Congress banned the use of RD-180 in 2015, NASA claims, use of RD-181 is acceptable...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      While lower-level Democrats are gleefully spreading rumours about Trump being a Putin's man, the Democratic Administration continues to buy this high technology from the adversary.

      And I could buy Stolichnya at the height of the civil war.

      Rather importantly, Russia is not exactly an adversary. Putin to the US is probably kind of like G.W. Bush was to the rest of the world 15 years ago.

      The engines, which are sound technology, are irrelevant to the relationship between Mr Putin and Mr Trump. The politics of their relation is a different matter entirely.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Rei · · Score: 2

      Nice attempt at shilling, but the group opposing the ban was primarily Republicans from ULA areas, particularly Richard Shelby (R-Boeing)

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    3. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 0

      Nice attempt at shilling, but the group opposing the ban was primarily Republicans from ULA areas

      Citations missing.

      Ukrainian expats, such as myself, have also been — and remain — very vocal calling for tightening sanctions against Russia.

      But, whoever called for it, it makes no sense that RD-180 is banned, but RD-181 is not. None... Clearly, NASA/White House are exploiting a loophole.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 0

      And I could buy Stolichnya at the height of the civil war.

      Fact Check. We investigate the claim made by a Slashdot poster "Ol Olsoc", that he could buy Stolichnaya at the height of the civil war.

      Because it is unclear, which civil war the poster was referring to — and he did not respond to our request for clarification in time for this publication — we give the poster a benefit of the doubt and examine both relevant civil wars: that of the United States and in Russia.

      Stolichnaya brand of vodka, according to Wikipedia, was first introduced in 1901. This is four decades after the American Civil War ended.

      To be able to buy alcohol during the Russian Civil War, which ended in 1922 (its "height" taking place even earlier), the poster would've had been born in 1901, which would make 115 years-old today, when he made his claim. No people that old are currently alive, however, and scientific consensus is that living beyond that age is impossible. Maybe, the poster was buying alcohol illegally at younger age, but even then he'd have to be above 100 years of age, which is exceedingly unlikely given his manner of speech and presence on the Internet technology web-sites such as Slashdot.

      Thus, we rate Ol Olsoc's claim as mostly false and assign it three out four Pinocchios.

      Putin to the US is probably kind of like G.W. Bush was to the rest of the world 15 years ago.

      Probably-shmobably. There is no obvious difference between the world's sentiment towards America since 2000. The only profound change is among Russians, actually, from 37% approval in 2000, to 46% in 2008, to 15% in 2015.

      The engines, which are sound technology

      It is called "economic sanctions". Look it up. You impose them to make the manufacturer suffer financially from being unable to sell their goods.

      are irrelevant to the relationship between Mr Putin and Mr Trump

      They are irrelevant, because no such relationship exists. But the holes in Obama's sanctions-regime remain unexplained. If buying RD-180 engines was wrong, why is it Ok to RD-181? Even more generally, if Russia should suffer under sanctions, why did it require an Act of Congress to stop buying those RD-180ies last year?

      Why didn't Obama stop the practice himself? The answer is simple: NASA's rocket would not fly without those, and Obama — who's never seen a problem, which was not best solved with government money — would not allow NASA, the state enterprise, to fall further behind private space firms... Even if that meant helping Putin finances — a small price to pay for "fundamentally changing America".

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      The Nagorno-Karabakh War was a Soviet civil war which started in 1988, as was the South Ossetia war that started in early 1991. Learn some history, dude.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Rei · · Score: 0

      Citations missing.

      Let me Google that for you

      For what it's worth, the Pentagon did argue for being able to purchase a fixed number of RD-181s. But while the Obama admin has funded commercial crew and spawned the creation of a whole host of new domestic launch vehicles, Shelby and his band of Russia-firsters have worked relentlessly to try to kill it off in order to maximize profits for and minimize costs to ULA.

      Ukrainian expats, such as myself, have also been — and remain — very vocal calling for tightening sanctions against Russia.

      I join you in that from the other side of the aisle (no longer live in the US, but still vote :) ).

      That said, I seriously hope you're not considering voting for the candidate whose campaign manager worked for Yanukovitch, whose foreign policy advisor actively works for Gazprom, who intervened on the Republican platform committee on only one issue of the hundreds discussed therein (that being to weaken language supporting Ukraine), says NATO is obsolete, and who insists that Russia did not invade Ukraine, among a laundry list of other things that would take pages to cover here.

      Slava Ukrayini :)

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    7. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 0

      I seriously hope you're not considering voting for the candidate whose campaign manager worked for Yanukovitch, whose foreign policy advisor actively works for Gazprom

      I'd rather Trump wins, than Clinton, who:

      1. ran State, when the Administration ended all "Georgian" sanctions against Russia, thus inviting Putin into Ukraine as predicted
      2. received, along with her husband, countless bribes (that is, "speech fees") from Putin-controlled entities — and gave amply in return
      3. routed billions-worth of investment into Russia's high-tech and -technology firms, some of them, obviously, with military connections
      4. was part of the Administration, that still would not give Ukraine lethal weapons (such as anti-tank missiles they desperately need) to counter the threat of Russia's armor
      5. Continues to employ John Podesta, who received millions from Putin too — and, unlike Manafort, Podesta is not simply a cold professional campaigner one day in Peru, tomorrow in Israel, and so on, he is sincerely behind Clinton and Democrats.

      Unlike USSR before him, Putin courts all sides. I'll take my chances with Trump, who has no prior record of helping the asshole and is less likely to be blackmailed by him.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    8. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

      Any particular reason you neglected to mention that the ban on the RD-180s relates to national security launches, while the RD-181 purchased by Orbital ATK are used for civilian and commercials launches?
      What's that? Because it helps your personal political narrative? Yeah, thought so.

    9. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 1

      Because it is irrelevant. First, all space launches, even those ostensibly for civilian use, are related to national security. Second, the real reason for a ban is not the fear, Russia may suddenly take over an ascending rocket and send it into Miami, but a desire to choke — or, at least, stop helping — Russia's rocket industry. Which it is already using to update/increase its collection of ICBMs — mostly pointed at us.

      You don't have to be a "hawk" to realize this...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Rei · · Score: 0

      Seriously? Oh for crying out loud.

      The "ending of the Georgian sanctions" and Skolkovo were part of Obama's attempt an attempt at a Russian reset (and which was Clinton's job as secretary of state to implement). Something that was of course naive, and a policy which has since been quite reversed (NATO troops deployed to eastern Europe, sanctions on Russia (with the US always taking a stronger position on the issue than Europe), etc). But you're comparing Obama's naivite with someone who thinks the US should willingly get rid of NATO and personally praises Putin without prompting. How can you even think that's comparable?

      You undercut your case when you link sources like "freebeacon", "powerlineblog", "breitbart", etc, just like I would if I were to link blogs, Daily Kos, Huffington Post, etc. Your link to "gave amply in return" says that the claim is false. There is no evidence for tit for tat, and more to the point, the sale wasn't Clinton's to deny. Furthermore, despite how much the right hates it, the Clinton foundation is one of the highest rated major charities in the US. I'm not exactly sure what you have against a charity that spends nearly 90% (a quite high number) of its funds on stamping out AIDS and other diseases, funding disaster relief, funding development projects in impoverished areas, etc. Unlike Trump's "charity" that turned out to be a scam, focused on things like buying paintings of himself and decorations, and which was recently delisted for illegal fundraising. Indeed, the very cases you cite where the Clinton foundation inadvertently failed to list donors is most notable in how rare it is, in that they voluntarily list their donors, something that they are not required to do and something that Trump did not do. Past tense because, as mentioned, his scam charity has now been blocked from further fundraising.

      Your "Podesta story" is about Podesta (not Clinton) working for a biofuels company for which 20% of their investment funding came from Russians, a company from which, as far as the documentations go, he probably divested from a while back. Versus Trump, who personally has owned and run businesses heavily backed by Russians, whose customers were largely Russians, and has regularly travelled to Moscow to try to start new businesses in Russia. Personally.

      It just amazes me that you cannot see the difference between these two sides. On one side, you have cases where Clinton implemented Obama's policies to try to mend relations with Russia, and ultimately ended up having to do just the opposite, working to get them under sanctions and such. You have Russians occasionally making investments in companies related to people related to Clinton, or making donations to a highly ranked charity that she doesn't earn money from. On the other hand, you have a person who currently, actively, and strongly personally supports Putin, has publicly advocated eliminating NATO, wants to give Russia Crimea, and freaking parades around information from Sputnik. How can you see these sides as even remotely comparable?

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    11. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 0

      But you're comparing Obama's naivite

      It was not just Obama's naivette — Hillary Clinton was running the State Department at the time. More to the point, it was not just the two of them either — the entire Democratic Establishment thought so, dismissing "Republican hawks" as "war-mongers". Whether they did it for personal gain, like Clinton, or out of sheer idiocy, like Biden ( the fount of foreign policy expertise, according to Democrats), they'll keep doing it.

      You undercut your case when you link sources like "freebeacon", "powerlineblog", "breitbart"

      No, I don't. First of all, my sources also include WSJ, NYTimes, and even Politifact. For someone, who offers no citations at all, it is rather rich to complain about mine.

      Second, a fact remains a fact, no matter, who reports it.

      the Clinton foundation is one of the highest rated major charities in the US

      Yeah, sure. And Obama is a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

      what you have against a charity that spends nearly 90% of its funds on stamping out AIDS and other diseases [...]

      See? No citation again. Let me help you. Of the $91.3mln spent by the foundation in 2014, according to their own tax-filings, only $5.2 million went to charitable grants.

      Your "Podesta story" is about Podesta (not Clinton) [...] he probably divested

      You mentioned a number of things about Trump's advisors, including Manafort, who once help Yanukovich. It is perfectly fair for me to bring up Podesta. And I can keep doing it, too.

      Versus Trump, who personally has owned and run businesses heavily backed by Russians

      Citations are missing again, khmm... Let's see, if I can help. This? No... Sorry, you'll have to do it yourself.

      Russians occasionally making investments in companies related to people related to Clinton

      Clintons received — both directly and via their Foundation — billions of dollars. A lot of that came from Putin-controlled entities. Just in 2015, for example, when she was already actively engaged in elections, they reported as much $10 million in income. What do you suppose, they sold, other than some more cattle futures?

      person who currently, actively, and strongly personally supports Putin

      False. Pants on Fire.

      has publicly advocated eliminating NATO

      False. Pants on Fire.

      wants to give Russia Crimea

      False. Pants on Fire.

      parades around information from Sputnik

      Half true — irrelevant.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    12. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Rei · · Score: 2

      Oh, and since you're citing the Wikileaks emails..... have you ever actually read any of them? Directly, not, you know, carefully selected blurbs designed to make you mad at Clinton? Have you read what she says about Russia behind closed doors? Here, since the Goldman transcripts were the most recent news, let's look what she says there. She talks about them thusly in relation to Syria:

      The Russian's view of this is very different. I mean, who conceives Syria as the same way he sees Chechnya? You know, you have to support toughness and absolute merciless reactions in order to drive the opposition down to be strangled, and you can't give an inch to them and you have to be willing to do what Assad basically has been willing to do.

      That has been their position. It pretty much remains their position, and it is a position that has led to the restocking of sophisticated weapon systems all through this. The Russians' view is that if we provide enough weapons to Assad and if Assad is able to maintain control over most of the country, including the coastal
      areas where our naval base is, that's fine with us. Because you will have internal fighting still with the Kurds and with the Sunnis on the spectrum of extremism. But if we can keep our base and we can keep Assad in the titular position of running the country, that reflects well on us because we will demonstrate that we are back in the Middle East. Maybe in a ruthless way, but a way that from their perspective, the Russian perspective, Arabs will understand.

      So the problem for the US and the Europeans has been from the very beginning: What is it you -- who is it you are going to try to arm? And you probably read in the papers my view was we should try to find some of the groups that were there that we thought we could build relationships with and develop some covert connections that might then at least give us some insight into what is going on inside Syria.

      But the other side of the argument was a very -- it was a very good one, which is we don't know what will happen. We can't see down the road. We just need to stay out of it. The problem now is that you've got Iran in heavily. You've got probably at least 50,000 fighters inside working to support, protect and sustain Assad. And like any war, at least the wars that I have followed, the hard guys who are the best fighters move to the forefront.

      So the free Syrian Army and a lot of the local rebel militias that were made up of pharmacists and business people and attorneys and teachers -- they're no match for these imported toughened Iraqi, Jordanian, Libyan, Indonesian, Egyptian, Chechen, Uzbek, Pakistani fighters that are now in there and have learned through more than a decade of very firsthand experience what it takes in terms of ruthlessness and military capacity.

      So we now have what everybody warned we would have, and I am very concerned about the spillover effects. And there is still an argument that goes on inside the administration and inside our friends at NATO and the Europeans. How do intervene -- my view was you intervene as covertly as is possible for Americans to intervene. We used to be much better at this than we are now. Now, you know, everybody can't help themselves. They have to go out and tell their friendly reporters and somebody else: Look what we're doing and I want credit for it, and all the rest of it.

      So we're not as good as we used to be, but we still -- we can still deliver, and we should have in my view been trying to do that so we would have better insight. But the idea that we would have like a no fly zone -- Syria, of course, did have when it started the fourth biggest Army in the world. It had very sophisticated air defense systems. They're getting more sophisticated thanks to Russian imports.

      Does it sound like she's a fan of Putin behind closed doors? I could keep going (for example, she responds to a questioner whose premise is "A lot of our problems is because we have a com

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    13. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Rei · · Score: 0

      You know, if you're not going to listen to Trump's own words which you can watch with a minute long visit to YouTube, I'm through wasting my time here. Go live in your own alternate reality. All I can say is, I'm glad for Ukraine's sake that your candidate has not a snowflake's chance in hell of ending up in office and giving Putin everything he's ever dreamed of. And when President Clinton starts giving Ukraine Javelins, I expect you to write an apology.

      --
      The internet is not a series of tubes. It's more like a net. Or a network of computers. Or an internet.
    14. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by mi · · Score: 1

      if you're not going to listen to Trump's own words which you can watch with a minute long visit to YouTube

      You make claims, you supply proof. As far as I know, Trump never expressed the sentiments you attribute to him (without any evidence).

      And when President Clinton starts giving Ukraine Javelins, I expect you to write an apology.

      Deal. Will you apologize, when she starts talking about "the need to move one beyond past hostilities" or "work out a reasonable compromise" — such as, when Putin is replaced by someone new in Kremlin, still without any intention to return Crimea?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    15. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And I could buy Stolichnya at the height of the civil war.

      Fact Check. We investigate the claim made by a Slashdot poster "Ol Olsoc", that he could buy Stolichnaya at the height of the civil war.

      Apologies, I meant "Cold War". The one between the US and the old USSR. That's about as much weirdness of your post I care to reply to, other than I have no idea why you think I was against buying the Russian engines. They are good engines.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    16. Re:Still using Russian equipment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you have been supplied with ample evidence over the years to debunk every bit of BS you spew.
      considering your track record in simply ignoring the provided evidence, saying "uh uh", and continuing to deny its existence, there is little point in tryig to engage with you, because you simply do not care about reality.

      ie, you are the typical trump supporter.

  14. Quality of Fact Checking by mi · · Score: 0

    Learn some history, dude.

    You can certainly say this about most fact-checking, including that by Pulitzer-winners, which is now just as much partisan hacking as the rest of the "journalism".

    The simple truth is, of course, the OP meant "Cold War" not "civil war" (in any country). Woosh-woosh-woosh...

    Personally, I, actually, toured both Baku and Yerevan with my father in 1988 — Aeroflot was still flying to both capitals from my native Kyiv, and the trip was very educational...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Quality of Fact Checking by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1, Troll

      Sucks to be you - Kiev is really ugly.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Quality of Fact Checking by mi · · Score: 0

      Putin -- hujlo!

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re: Quality of Fact Checking by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      He sure is, but that was nevertheless a non-sequitur.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    4. Re: Quality of Fact Checking by mi · · Score: 0

      that was nevertheless a non-sequitur.

      As was your spiteful lie about Kyiv being "ugly". Non-sequitur and off-topic too.

      Moskalya — na tryzub!

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re: Quality of Fact Checking by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      And this nationalism is the reason why Ukraine is a failed state.

      I have been in Kiev. It is fugly and dirty. And most people were arseholes calling me churka because they never heard a German accent before. Also the worst drivers I have ever experienced, worse than Arabs. Prague is beautiful, Tallinn is mostly beautiful, Lwow is bearable, even though the people suck. But Kiev is ugly.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:Quality of Fact Checking by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The simple truth is, of course, the OP meant "Cold War" not "civil war" (in any country). Woosh-woosh-woosh.....

      Who knew?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  15. Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the global warming people insist that ice cores, tree rings and mud are perfectly adequate and accurate for all years before about 1750, though I have never seen the traceable calibration certs for any of these "instruments"

    These same people claim that a few windjammers at sea equipped with mercury thermometers, sextants and candle light are good for most global climate data between about 1750 and the 1900s with a relative few barometers and thermometers at airfields around the world being adequate until WWII.

    We've only had satellite images for the past 55 years and satellite temperature data for perhaps 35 years.

    No space program is needed for climate monitoring.

    Oh, and if everybody just trashed their cellphones and tablets, and we shut off the internet and all its server farms we'd save enough energy to shut down enough power plants to save the planet, assuming it needs saving.

    So, my liberal friend, which is more important to you:

    [a] social media

    - or -

    [b] saving the planet?

    I'll bet you go right on using your cell phone and the web, and like a good liberal you will insist something is a world-ending problem but that somebody else must pay to solve the problem - which proves you do not truly believe in your world-ending fear-fest

  16. Yeah, hardly an American vehicle... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As before:

    The Launch vehicle's engines are Russian.
    The Launch vehicle's first stage is Ukrainian.

    The Cygnus spacecraft is Italian (Thales Alenia)

    The service module, solid motor upper stage, and payload fairing are made in America.

    According to our Defense contractors like LockMart, boeing, and ATK, designing and building many parts of launch vehicles and spacecraft are "jobs Americans won't do". Strangely, Elon Musk and SpaceX seem to disagree.

  17. Impossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You cannot burn up a flame propagation experiment. Logic dictates this will only continue the experiment! They will set fire to the atmosphere and burn us all alive! The Aztecs predicted it all!! /tinfoilhat

  18. Re:Great, now let's do something useful instead by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    I know Spanish isn't your native language, and I am not trying to be a jerk, but to honestly teach here.

    It is La Niña, not El Niña. El is male, La is female, Niña is female, Niño is male.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?