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Russians Seek Answers To Central Moscow GPS Anomaly (yahoo.com)
stevegee58 writes: Russians have been noticing that their GPS doesn't work in Moscow near the Kremlin. Everyone from taxi drivers to Pokemon Go players suddenly notice that they're transported 18 miles away at the airport when they near the Kremlin. While this may be an annoyance to the public it seems like a reasonable countermeasure to potential terrorist threats. Is it only a matter of time before other vulnerable sites such as the White House or the Capitol in Washington start doing the same? "A programmer for Russian internet firm Yandex, Grigory Bakunov, said Thursday his research showed a system for blocking GPS was located inside the Kremlin, the heavily guarded official residence of Russian President Vladimir Putin," reports Yahoo. "The first anomaly was recorded in June, according to Russian media reports, which have also suggested that the GPS interference comes and goes in a pattern. Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Thursday he did not know why the malfunction was occurring and admitted experiencing the problem himself when driving recently. Peskov redirected questions to Russia's Federal Guards Service, which is responsible for protecting the Kremlin and senior Russian officials."
If anyone is seriously interested in finding out where a signal is coming from, they probably can do that without GPS. Maybe defeating logging of patterns in carried cell phones among the general personnel, but if you're relying on that it's kind of ridiculous anyway.
China also mandates errors in GPS mapping.
FP btw
In conjunction with the fact that it isn't marked on any paper maps and is completely invisible, you mean?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
This is a feature not a bug.
The West has been placing devices in Russia for years.
"Russian 'spy rock' was genuine, former chief of staff admits"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...
"... accepted that Britain did indeed plant a "spy rock" despite attempts by the then-prime minister to dismiss the story and denials of improper conduct by the Foreign Office."
Britain admits 'fake rock' plot to spy on Russians
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
A lot of spy devices are distance sensitive. So a good idea of the inner device location is needed and the location for a collection or helper device.
By altering the GPS, measurements for device placement by spies gets tricky. Any more power than needed a device risks detection. Not enough and signal is too week to get out of secure area.
Readers might recall the ANGRYNEIGHBOR, SURLYSPAWN, VAGRANT, DROPMIRE, SURLYSPAWN and the note about TAWDRYYARD and gps.
Catalog Advertises NSA Toolbox (December 29, 2013)
http://www.spiegel.de/internat...
A hired spy with local time limited access placing a device is then 10 feet out? 100ft ? Pacing the building with funny walk might be off limits or get seen on gait analysis from CCTV. Past sketches, plans or details might have altered with upgrades or have come from double agents sent to West with amazing stories of fiction about layout.
So expecting gps to work well at all times was needed to get fine tuning of device to outside support device by spy.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
To annoy pokemon go players.
This is why I always felt JDAMs were a bad idea in the long run because their INS is less accurate without GPS assistance and a discrepancy like this must really screw up the guidance if GPS assistance is switched on.
does glonass work?
someone with the capability obviously has decided to disrupt gps signals around sensitive targets.
in soviet russia, gps locks you.
just wait until your map app directs you to a siberian gulag when you ask it for directions. (your iphone probably does that already).
It seems a bit odd to redirect attacks to an airport - I'd have expected it to point to the opposition's headquarters.
transported 18 miles away at the airport
Broadcasting GPS data for the local airport seems like a good way to have an aeroplane land on top of you.
I could completely understand if GPS didn't work at all, or gave a an unimportant location.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
It seems like this would be easy thwart by having the software software prevent sudden large movements (while GPS is active) that don't match the reading of an IMU.
Everything you need is in every smartphone, you just need basic programming knowledge to defeat these countermeasures.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
hile this may be an annoyance to the public it seems like a reasonable countermeasure to potential terrorist threats
This must be a new use of the word 'reasonable'' I was not previously aware of.
Would that mean the Russians have an alternative working and secret GPS that only the top guns use (and military)?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
It's very strange that all of these things are happening JUST before a US election.
Russia just moved warships through the English channel and into the Mediterranean sea, to a base being made in Syria. That naval base is not complete yet, and he doesn't need the sea base for his war in Syria. He's likely moving them now more to do with US elections.
Russia just accused the UK of reducing its diplomatic staff by denying visas to people it wanted to send.
It looks like Putin will have a bit of US conflict as an October surprise. That will let Trump paint Obama as weak, and play the war card. A bit of a gift from Putin to Trump to save his disastrous election campaign.
Very few military weapons depend solely on GPS (or GLONASS for that matter). It's been obvious for a while that satellite navigation and guidance systems were not going to survive any engagement with another military for very long. The Chinese finalized that argument in 2007.
Further, a Predator or other military drone isn't going to last 5 seconds above Moscow airspace. It would have to be a stand-off weapon or (god forbid) a ballistic missile. The area covered is very small by these standards and any of these weapons would already be in "terminal" phase... GPS wouldn't be used (or make a difference... especially on ballistic missiles).
If the signal is always adjusted to a specific spot (it seems Vunoko) it's easy enough for a "major actor" to just reprogram whatever is using GPS to say "if you see a 18 mile jump at any of these coordinates surrounding the anomaly, adjust".
This is meant to throw off things like car bombs, thus internal assassins and possibly smaller states like the Ukraine.
Our old Minuteman III missiles were made before GPS, and don't rely on it for terminal guidance
and in spite of your meddling , The Donald won't be getting his finger on the launch button any time soon
How difficult would it be to use directional antennas that strongly favor signals from sources in the sky over sources with low elevation?
How would self driving cars respond to souch GPS disturbance?
Probably a test to see if they how much they can redirect it.
Assuming the story to be true, the answer to the anomaly is pretty obvious. The USA is sending a message - fuck around with us and we can fuck around with you. Of course Russia has GLONASS but I bet a lot of devices don't use it or prefer GPs.
Also a yuuuge wall!
The aircraft carrier is likely for defense of his fleet from the air. Putins already bombing Aleppo from the Iran airbases he was granted access to. A land base from a friendly would be a better base than an aircraft carrier. On the other hand a fleet normally has an aircraft carrier for cover.
Do not underestimate Putin, Donald Trump may be a vain foolish ranting old man, but Putin is very sharp and clearly knows how to manipulate.
Most recent phones support GLONASS. Even an older device like the Nexus 5 does so. You can use an app like GPS Test (by Chartcross, for Android) to see them. They're the higher numbered satellite (60s, 70s). The support is built into the GPS integrated receiver, from Qualcomm and others.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
It makes sense to send terrorist threats from the Kremlin to the airport where they become a photo op and a chance to show strong leadership. Why do you think other politicians want it?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
It's cheaper than those automatic guns we see in the movies protecting the White House from attacks of disillusioned North Korean terrorists.
Does GLONASS still work? there are plenty of multi-band receivers.
Although they have could be spoofing a GPS signal, they are probably simply jamming GPS, but meddling with the Glosnass signal which they obviously have complete control over. Modern gps chipsets (in phones etc) can use both signals these days, and if GPS is unavailable can fall back on Glosnass.
Strikes again!
Countermeasure for GPS-related or GPS-triggered mobile device surveillance / spying.
Here in the US, I've noticed GPS "anomalies" while driving in the Washington DC area and around military bases. Not loss of GPS, but the coordinates are off just enough that you really have to pay attention to driving so that you don't miss a turn.
Not that I'm paranoid, of course.
In an instance of war or a strategic hit precision guided bombing sequence requires gps. If there is no gps they will have to use laser guidance or some other less 'fire and forget' tracking method. Bomb makers knew this day was coming Guided-Bomb Makers Anticipate GPS Jammers http://www.defensenews.com/sto...
And in Australia. A few years ago when driving around Canberra I found my SatNav unit just stopped working in an area just a couple of city blocks across - then I noticed that the US Embassy was right in the centre of the black-out zone. I'm sure GPS jamming must be commonplace in the vicinity of sensitive sites around the world.
For those with Androids, by default, WiFi access point known locations supersede GPS **Even when WiFi is turned off** (the asterisk-encapsulated part can be disabled, but it's pretty difficult, and it annoys you about it all the time when you do).
If the complaining taxi drivers are using auto manufacturer GPSes, then I guess that's not the problem. But if they are using Androids, it could be. And for Pokemon Go users, it certainly would be consistent.
I turn off this feature mostly because it's very annoying when I fly on an airline with WiFi (always). When I land, it shows me in Phoenix, Dallas, Atlanta, or wherever the hub of the airline is, even though I'm somewhere else.
Google collects WiFi location data via crowdsourcing (see https://www.cnet.com/news/goog...)
This is a common problem when someone moves houses, or moves an access point from one place to another. It takes a long time for Google to update its database.
It is strange to see many posters think that GPS is an american something. GPS is a shorthand for the generic term "Global Positioning System".
The american implementation is called NAVSTAR,
The soviet (later russian) implementation is called Glonass,
The European Union has Galileo and
The chinese system is called COMPASS
(but most call it Bei-dou, lit. art of wayfinding, in order not to confuse it with "Compass Call" which is an american military satellite jamming aircraft).
All of these are Global Positioning Systems, although there were a few years after the fall of USSR, when only the american system had truly global reach, due to russians' lack of funds to replace ailing satellites.
Once in a while the local news in SoCal reports that GPS may be disrupted in areas around military bases. I was on a road trip up the coast during one of the events when the GPS started going bonkers. Later examination of the history said my top speed was 138mph, I know I never exceeded 70mph.
Eh, you say jamming signal I say homing beacon.
Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid.
Render the GPS on someone's cellphone useless if they're, unbeknownst to the poor phone user, near a location that the government has decided shouldn't be found via GPS. What happens to the poor soul who needs to call 9-1-1 after gettiing in a nasty car accident or to report a crime and the EMS service or police can't find them because GPS indicates they're miles away from the true location? Short: answer: there a good chance that, if they're seriously injured, they'll probably die. Jeebus, this is that damned stupidest thing I've heard in a while.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
The answer is likely very simple, the system is being jammed by a broadband pseudo noise RF signal , likely transmitters at Kremlin itself,. This is Russia people ! Wake up!. This dubious so called " anomaly" no hole in the GPs system, the system is being Jammed by Russian government, To what end is likely foolish
High power RF signal with peak amplitudes of Megawatts for Tenths of nanoseconds not detectable by anything but the most sophisticated equipment. yet can totally prevent a Gps receiver from working, likely by confusing the GPS receiver . The thing about this method is that voice and digital communications on or near the same frequency and its harmonics although disrupted for nanoseconds , show no ill effects but a GPS signal that relies on this nanosecond wide timing is rendered totally useless
If we tell you, we'll have to kill you. :-)
Come to think of it, it's possible that many consumers devices actually track based on multiple satellite networks to increase availability and precision and the intermittent nature of the error is because the error depends on which satellite/satellite system is in view at the time.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
I am surprised that no one has put in the obligatory "in Soviet Russia, GPS gets directions from you" comment yet. How can you not quote Yakov Smirnoff?
Nukes? Missiles?
last month's US chief of armies gave a chilling speech where they expect mass casualties within 10 years, to the likes of WWII.
Stop lying. It never happened.
You're a paid Kremlin troll.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
Former Eastern Block countries have some great "IT people" who could do great in a normal environment...but there are no "normal" jobs for them. So, they get hired by criminal organizations instead. Everyone's got to eat.
Stop lying. You're describing Eastern Europe cca. 1995.
Nowadays, more than 20 years after, the situation is the exact opposite: not enough IT people compared with available jobs in the local market. Moreover, non-local job opportunities all over the EU drain the IT people from Eastern Europe.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
Stick their head outside the airplane window and say "Yup.. looks like we're close"? ;-)
Not being able to find the Kremlin would require navigation of a truly mind-bogglingly low standard. I've walked around the thing (having several hours to kill in Moscow, between flying in to one of the internal airports and out of one of the external airports) and it took a solid 3 hours. Detouring, it must be said, to find a toilet and to buy a matrioshka which said rude things about Clinton and Lewinsky. And "odin piva, perzhalsta."
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"