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Is Microsoft Mainstreaming Machine Learning? (networkworld.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the calling-all-Python-developers dept.

Tuesday Microsoft updated their open source Microsoft Cognitive Toolkit (CNTK), adding support for both C++ and Python. "This announcement is more than a point release..." argues Network World. "It's the recognition of AI and machine learning as the next big platform after mobile." This announcement represents a shift in Microsoft's customer focus from research to implementation... The toolkit is a supervised machine learning system in the same category of other open-source projects such as Tensorflow, Caffe and Torch. Microsoft is one of the leading investors in and contributors to the open machine learning software and research community. A glance at the Neural Information Processing Systems conference reveals that there are just four major technology companies committed to moving the field of neural networks forward: Microsoft, Google, Facebook and IBM.
A Microsoft engineer described CNTK as "democratizing AI," according to Microsoft's announcement, which also notes that their toolkit "has been optimized to best take advantage of the NVIDIA hardware and Azure networking capabilities that are part of the Azure offering."

24 of 51 comments (clear)

  1. No. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 5, Informative

    TensorFlow is what everyone is using because it works well and it has a nice license to go with it. Besides, willingly becoming reliant on anything Microsoft makes is a devil's bargain.

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    1. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Might be good for a sexbot though. I think Tay may have broken records for AI learning.

    2. Re:No. by somenickname · · Score: 4, Informative

      TensorFlow is what everyone is using because it works well and it has a nice license to go with it. Besides, willingly becoming reliant on anything Microsoft makes is a devil's bargain.

      Logged in to write exactly this. I've worked on a number of projects in the past that could have been simplified by TensorFlow. I have an equal level of disdain for Microsoft and Google but, TensorFlow is pretty darn cool. And the licensing alone makes it better than anything that Microsoft would be willing to release. So, no, Microsoft isn't mainstreaming machine learning. These days, I don't think Microsoft is mainstreaming anything except surveillance and shitty user interfaces.

    3. Re:No. by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      The question though is "everyone" that you refer to an academic or niche machine learning user aka not the "Mainstream".

      If you said "All of the CDC statisticians I know use linux" that doesn't logically follow that "Linux is mainstream".

      The implied argument is that existing machine learning is only being used by a select few, while Microsoft hopes to expand the market vastly beyond the current user set. Everyone could be using a Mainframe... and yet Apple could still mainstream computer usage with the release of the Apple II.

      I'm incredibly technically savvy and do a lot of development and design but I've never written code hat used a machine learning algorithm except for through Microsoft's hosted cognitive services once just to play with it.

    4. Re:No. by mrlibertarian · · Score: 1

      TensorFlow is what everyone is using because it works well and it has a nice license to go with it.

      Can TensorFlow run on Windows?

    5. Re:No. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      There's also Torch7, for example. Why should a Microsoft release, of all things, be so memorable?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the license is available with the toolkit and can actually be read instead of having to speculate on what is in it? Here it is in case it's too much trouble for you to look it up yourself:

      Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
      The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
      THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

      IANAL, but that seems like pretty straightforward wording granting unlimited rights to do anything at all with the code. I'm not sure how the Apache 2.0 license would be better.

    7. Re: No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      IAAL. This is the MIT License, a straight-up attribution-style license with a warranty disclaimer, about as free and OSS a license as you can get.

    8. Re:No. by impossiblefork · · Score: 1

      Yes. I have been using tensorflow using something called 'bash on ubuntu on windows' which is a bit like Wine. The whole thing was very convenient and everything that I needed could be installed with apt-get.

    9. Re:No. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      The question though is "everyone" that you refer to an academic or niche machine learning user aka not the "Mainstream".

      You are right, that is the question. The answer is that it's much more than academics or niche users... and it's for the same reasons.

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      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    10. Re:No. by ranton · · Score: 1

      TensorFlow is what everyone is using because it works well and it has a nice license to go with it. Besides, willingly becoming reliant on anything Microsoft makes is a devil's bargain.

      Oh yes, because willingly becoming reliant on anything Google has never led anyone astray. Google's history of ongoing support for their products is legendary.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    11. Re:No. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      The license (APL) is such that Google does not control the source code. Now that it's out, there's no going back. Microsoft's license on there other hand has some caveats.

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  2. no, not "machine learning" by TimothyHollins · · Score: 1

    Deep learning does not constitute all of, or even a significant chunk of, machine learning. It is merely the latest fad, much like personalized medicine in medical informatics or nano-machines in biochemistry.

    (I'd even go as far as to say that it's one of the worst parts of the field since neural network models are prohibitively hard to interpret and draw conclusions from)

    1. Re:no, not "machine learning" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      neural network models are prohibitively hard to interpret and draw conclusions from)

      Biological neural networks are also hard to predict and interpret, so I don't think that is a very good argument.
      A system doesn't become less intelligent just because you don't understand how it works.

      Deep NNs have become a "fad" because for many applications, they work better (sometimes far better) than the alternatives.

      If you disagree, perhaps we can settle this over a nice game of Go.

    2. Re:no, not "machine learning" by gweihir · · Score: 1

      People that go for fads like this one usually think they are "cool", "modern" or even "cutting edge", when nothing like that is true. While I fully agree with your statement, those people cannot even understand what you are saying.

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      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:no, not "machine learning" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      People that go for fads like this one usually think they are "cool", "modern" or even "cutting edge", when nothing like that is true.

      Exactly. The really cool kids, like you, just sit on the sidelines and sneer at the dorky nerds that are getting stuff done.

    4. Re:no, not "machine learning" by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You wish.

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      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:no, not "machine learning" by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. There's a giant wall of bollocks emanating from "tech" firms, especially their marketing bs departments. The reality is somewhat different.

  3. one could argue... by e432776 · · Score: 2

    that this would not be unprecedented. After all, Microsoft was an absolutely essential player in "mainstreaming" personal computing. For better or worse, before PC "clones" arrived on the scene running MS-DOS and then Windows, computing was *very* expensive and not mainstream at all. This is in no way to defend other business practices MS has had over the years, but a careful look at the record should show that MS was key to the "PC revolution".

    I'll show myself the door now, thanks.

    1. Re:one could argue... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      IBM AI: Win at jeopardy.
      Google AI: self-driving cars + winning at Go.
      DARPA AI: self-piloting drones.
      Microsoft AI: Racist sexbots

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      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:one could argue... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      After all, Microsoft was an absolutely essential player in "mainstreaming" personal computing. For better or worse, before PC "clones" arrived on the scene running MS-DOS and then Windows, computing was *very* expensive and not mainstream at all.

      That is much more attributable to Intel and PC manufacturers, rather than to Microsoft.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  4. Yes they are... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    if you want to make racist twitterbots. ;)

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    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  5. Re:Hipster MBAs writing the headlines at Slashdot? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    Seriously, mainstreaming? That's a word now?

    "Mainstream" has been used as a verb since at least 1975, when the IDEA act was passed, and handicapped children were "mainstreamed" into regular classrooms. The meaning of the word is obvious, and the usage in the headline is cromulent.

  6. There is so much more to ML than a code library. by ZecretZquirrel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's like thinking that having a compiler means that I can program.