Pirate Party Gains Seats In Iceland's Election (bbc.com)

The BBC reports that Iceland's Pirate Party "has tripled its seats in the 63-seat parliament, election results show. It is in joint second place with the Left-Greens -- with 10 seats each." An anonymous reader quotes USA Today: Iceland's hacker-led, upstart Pirate Party failed to make the nation's powerful Independence Party walk the plank after all. The Pirate Party -- led by a former WikiLeaks collaborator -- rode the populist movement sweeping Europe to make big gains in Saturday's election, but returns on Sunday gave the largest bloc of seats to the center-right Independence Party...

Pirate Party co-founder Birgitta Jonsdottir, who became involved with WikiLeaks in 2010 after its leader Julian Assange visited Iceland, said she was satisfied with the Pirate plunder at the polls. "Our internal predictions showed 10 to 15%, so this is at the top of the range."
Iceland's prime minister was forced to resign in April after the Panama Papers suggested his family had sheltered its personal wealth outside the country.

Comments

Re:Anti-establishment

[rholtzjr]

I would not be too sure of the outcome as of yet, the polls (if you want to believe ANY of them now) are still in the margin of error and more are flipping candidates. In other words, the lady has not sung yet.

Re:Anti-establishment

[phantomfive]

I don't think many people in the US are pro-establishment right now; even those who are voting for Clinton dislike that aspect of her.

Re:Anti-establishment

[phantomfive]

the polls (if you want to believe ANY of them now)

Is there any particular reason to not believe the polls?

Re:Anti-establishment

[rudy_wayne]

the polls (if you want to believe ANY of them now)

Is there any particular reason to not believe the polls?

Other than the polls rarely being right, no.

big whoop

[PopeRatzo]

I can hack you through an exploit in the Akashic records.

Re:Anti-establishment

[PopeRatzo]

Other than the polls rarely being right, no.

Polls are almost always right.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/944...

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...

I'm so envious

[rsilvergun]

of you nord's parliaments. Canada's too. It's not a prefect solution but it is a _hell_ of a lot better than what I got here in the states.

Re:I'm so envious

[TFlan91]

That is clearly up for debate.

Their (Canada, et all) system allows for quicker change, but that isn't always good.

Our (States) system, allows for many more people to block change, but that isn't always good.

However, change isn't always good.

TLDR: Government sucks no matter how you roll. But it's better than anarchy.

Re:I'm so envious

[Goglu]

Canada's system mixes executive and legislative power in such a way that when the party's in power, it can do anything... And very often, the opposite of what their electoral platform stated. (For example, the current Canadian PM, Justin Trudeau, was elected on the promise that he'd change the electoral process, and now says that it's not a priority anymore, since he's so popular!)

Re:I'm so envious

[aliquis]

of you nord's parliaments. Canada's too. It's not a prefect solution but it is a _hell_ of a lot better than what I got here in the states.

Except Sweden is a democrature where the media and politicians lie about immigration and call everything refugees, call it good, hang out and isolate and kick out anyone who dare to say otherwise, can't say the truth, hide identity, think the government have the right to choose the people and voters rather than the other way around, think the will of the people (it's in this article too with "populism" is bad.)
Complete tax pressure isn't all that far from 50% of GDP with the public sector and influence which follow with that including left-wing extremists as the standard among teachers and state-media, state-sponsored other media, clubs, cultural events, total tax on income in the range of 3/4s (if you add it all up together.) Politicians who spends way too much of others money onto destructive idiot projects and solutions no-one would fund with their own money, politicians who give so much to their own parties that they don't really need any members to be able to operate so culling can happen to the extreme, the social demo(c)rats while having less than 1/4 of the voter support still being heavily backed up by the unions obviously and the other way around and the complete domination within national media, schools, public sector, .. Foreign people used as a measure to get things through your way whatever it's to get more socialist voters, "green" voters (rather Islamists and socialists and anti-nationalists by now, guess it matches the Quran..) or liberalization of the markets to handle the situation. USD up 50% vs the SEK in just above 5 years time, quickly more people with the nation and still they talk about high GDP numbers, never mind the complete collapse in the SEK and the larger population, much of it not even accounted for yet because all the immigrants of 2015 haven't had their residency permits yet and even less so their families move over yet. Enormously increased private debt and hot job market with a private debt close that of the national GDP and which has increased well above 5% yearly before - sustainable?

Swedish GDP in USD
2006: 420.03 billion
2007: 487,84 billion
2008: 513.97 billion
2009: 429.66
2010: 488.38
2011: 563.11 billion (so far so good, enter the migration decision and lower interest rates.)
2012: 543.88
2013: 578.74
2014: 571.1
2015: 492.62

Residents:
2011: 9 482 855
2015: 9 851 017

Household and non-profit credits:
2006: ~1.8 trillion SEK
2014: ~3.25 trillion SEK

During 2006-2014 with the Alliance government and tax cuts the welfare kinda remained intact which could be done by selling out lots of public property but that's of course not sustainable either, so what you see is public sellouts and private debt of multiple trillions of SEK and more what? More than 500 000 more citizens likely going towards the million once their relatives are here and what to show for it? At best 25% GDP growth in USD over 10 years which would be on average 2.2% / year close to the "normal" of about 2.6%, throw in population growth of 5-10% and it look worse, say at worst 1.3% / year and capita. Sure there's others which are worse off but how many have doubled private debt or increased it with 50% of GDP during the "crisis"? The worst is yet to come ..

And then it come of course political decisions and immigration will have nothing to do with it and it won't be tolerated if you put "weak groups against each other" or put blame on the weak group, even though we know, or should know, about the expensive solutions, their multiple years of very low performance on the job market (due to few unskilled jobs and high welfare payouts and high lowest wages and lots of money from simply having children and so on with little need to job if you don't want too because someone else will pay for your family anyway - anything else would be "un

Re: I'm so envious

[Rei]

Huh? Winters in Iceland are milder than in Sweden, what are you talking about?

Re: I'm so envious

[aliquis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Four months of average highs above 10 degrees C, 13.3 in July, lows below 0 for five months but worst one just -3 degrees in January.

I dislike the lack of trees, in Sweden you can get the whole range of farming landscapes (though the EU wants that to happen in more productive regions and Sweden be even more full of trees), lots of trees but also regions with few trees and mountains and grass instead of that's your thing, a few large lakes and plenty of smaller ones too and some archipelagos. There's a diversity of nature/landscape. Iceland do have trees but less of them. Norway is a nicer upgrade since it's closer in what's back home in the nature to me. Denmark maybe too, best would had been if it all together with Finland and Estonia was just one country as long as Swedish politicians and immigrants got nothing to say about the development of the region.

Re:I'm so envious

[smallfries]

So that's what it looks like when a Swedish Democrats supporter enters full-on rant mode. Window dressing for your racist views.

Why do you try to make your argument by measuring the size of the Swedish economy in USD? All currencies are currently in a race to devalue the fastest, given that there is too much slack production and debt in the world. http://www.scb.se/en_/Finding-... gives a view less distorted by currency manipulation.

Re:I'm so envious

[aliquis]

Window dressing for your racist views.

Where was the dressing?
Refugee immigration is trash - get over it.
If there would be any dressing of it it would be that I think the actual variation in the world is nice and that I would be totally fine with each people being their own and having their tradition and they being a contribution to the diversity of the world and experiences one can get by going to different places but I definitely don't want them here to replace and destroy my people and society.

Why do you try to make your argument by measuring the size of the Swedish economy in USD?

Because measuring GDP in something more fixed and real than a fiat currency is more relevant, if you drop the value of the currency to half of course GDP will be somewhat higher.
It also matter a lot for me since I can buy less for my money, the stuff beyond living expenses I want to buy are almost always imported (bunch of board-games and card-games, computer games, book and comic book bundles, ..) and those are priced on the global market and hence much more expensive for me now than they were before.

All currencies are currently in a race to devalue the fastest

Which is negative if you already have money. Though if you have had the money in a US stock index fund instead you'd get a 150% profit in SEK in the same time.

given that there is too much slack production and debt in the world.

Taking money from Swedes to give to the r(ap)efugees doesn't increase their capability to buy things.

* Value of the money is relevant.
* Number of citizens for a GDP / capita rather than just national GDP is relevant.
* Public sector spending for immigration also ends up pushing up GDP without contributing anything positive whatsoever to the Swedish society and Swedes.

Re:I'm so envious

[SuiteSisterMary]

Canada basically has three electoral states, on the federal level:

1: A party has a majority. They can do what they want, basically unimpeded.

2: A party has a minority. This is basically a way of the populace to tell the party 'watch it, you're getting a bit out of hand.'

3: The other party suddenly wins majority. This happens on a regular basis. Basically, once a party has had a majority for, oh, eight to twelve years, either it gets complacent, or the usual corruption and cronyism gets too bad to ignore, and we 'teach the incumbents a lesson' by electing the other party for a while.

Note that due to the riding and first-past-the-post system, a government can win a 'sweeping majority' with ~40 percent of the popular vote.

Also, we don't elect a separate executive; imagine if you simply voted for Congress, and whichever party got the most seats in Congress got to put their party leader into the presidency. There's no reason why, in a minority situation, a few parties couldn't get together and form a coalition. This is, in fact, how it's supposed to work; the idea is that if you have a majority, you don't need to bother with a coalition. The way it works in practice, though, is that even with a minority, the government with the most seats gets to fill the office of Prime Minister, and will loudly decry any attempts to form a coalition as 'undemocratic.'

Re:I'm so envious

[smallfries]

Ok, so you are out and out racist. It is sad that you have such prejudice against others.

USD is a fiat currency, so measuring Swedish GDP in USD does not produce a measurement that is more fixed. It simply highlights noise from currency fluctuations.

Of course the race to devalue is negative for people with assets - it is being done to buy the votes of those in debt. They are the majority.

Actually, supporting immigration does buy something for Swedes in the long term - diversity. Even if the 1st generation produce nothing of value, and the 2nd... integration across multiple generations supplies value to the host society. Homogeneous cultures die. Hetrogeneous cultures are more robust to external shocks.

Re: I'm so envious

[Rei]

You're talking about summers. I was talking about winters. Our winters are milder than Sweden. And winter temperatures are usually what bother people in northern countries.

You do have bigger / more extensive forests, but we still have some lovely ones, contrary to popular myth. On the other hand, the areas without trees also exposes the geology, which here is often very dramatic. Mountains aren't just rolling canopy, you see their individual lava flows, ash deposits, dikes, all of the columnar basalt, geothermal sulfur deposits (and active geothermal areas), bright red/yellow/black/etc modified areas, consted with brilliant green moss, etc. Our rainbow-colored mountains wouldn't be visible if they were fully forested. Also, we're wetter than Sweden on average, too, so we have a higher concentration of waterfalls. We don't beat Norway in waterfall height (Norway has some of the highest in the world), but we beat them in waterfall power.

Re, nordic unification: hey, count me in. Will you kick out out our corrupt Independence Party politicians? ;)

Re: I'm so envious

[smallfries]

Do you really think there has been no immigration to Sweden in that time?

Re: I'm so envious

[aliquis]

I can't say I know all that much about Iceland in general. One guy in our board-game club is from Iceland and he spoke about corruption and then I've watched images much of it of course is grassland so to say and I think I read 7% was covered with forests?

Since you are out in the sea milder winters make sense put possibly also colder summers. I don't really need the 25+ degrees C but it's nice to experience summer and while winter is my least preferred season I guess having snow sometimes is ok (but you do too.)

The way I see it Denmark seem to have mostly farm-land and be more densely populated and it's flat and lots of archipelago I assume. Likely very nice. Sweden only have lots of it in Skåne and I live in Örebro but there's still quite a bit of farmed land around here but also quite a bit of forests, but then there's so much area which is mostly just covered by forest and the parts in the north which aren't.

I have the impression less land may be farmed in Norway, the large lakes are fewer (also in Denmark), more mountains, likely very much beautiful nature and diversity there too, the population more spread out with better working rural areas and I guess Oslo and Stavanger feel large enough if that's what one is after anyway (relative Sweden.)

My view of Finland would be that of plenty of forests and of course small lakes. But my view of all of them is mostly just like satellite images, maps and whatever Google brings up. I haven't really been around in them.

I like forests and I like open landscapes too but I guess I like forests more, I also like especially large water bodies. Likely because that's where I've been brought up and it feel safe / like the stuff I know. If I was brought up in a mountain desert area maybe I would had liked and felt comfortable in that.

I guess another nice combination would be the Faroe Islands but that's even smaller still and I'm vegan and don't want to eat fish or like fishing (industry) ;D, very beautiful that too.

As said preferably it would all be just one nation where I could move around freely and visit and settle down wherever and experience all the beauty it is :)
As is within one nation I just feel Sweden have the largest diversity simply because it stretches the furthest from south to north really :), but all of it would be even better, and it would likely had connected us even more.

I don't know enough of your politics, but as said I would assume your piracy party and environmentalist party is like ours and ours are terrible (anti-white communists so to say, or if you want open-border social-liberals.)
Sweden need to be ruled by Norway, Finland and Denmark because they are saner and Sweden has already have ~30% people with immigrant background (just below 70% with two Swedish-born parents if you consider how many who actually live here.)

Re: I'm so envious

[aliquis]

It's so weird that our national day is kinda celebrating the end of the Kalmar union.

WTF is that to celebrate? The problem with a union is that Sweden have the largest population and that our politics risk influence yours rather than the other way around.

Hence I would kinda be ok to include all Baltic nations and maybe Poland (and Hungary, Austria and Ukraine too?) ;D to make the land-mass have more natives and native voting power against the anti-white globalist Marxists, also more white people to mate with.

Scotland? Maybe, but they are such Nordic nations wannabes that it's not necessarily better for the political direction I want :D

GB and Germany of course has been good nations but they are also destroyed by mass-immigration so .. no thanks.

imagine the u.s.

[Anonymous Coward]

with a dozen or more viable political parties, none ever getting a majority by itself, "coalition" governments, instant runoff voting, and strict campaign finance rules.....

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Rei]

The system here still needs to be improved. Votes in the countryside can count for up to double those of Reykjavík. And people voting for small parties can still be throwing their votes away if they don't make enough to get a seat (plus rounding errors can ). The system would be greatly improved if we could get rid of the kjördæmi (regions?) altogether and just vote nationwide, but the conservatives like the advantage that the current system gives them, and they generally dominate our political system.

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Applehu Akbar]

with a dozen or more viable political parties, none ever getting a majority by itself, "coalition" governments, instant runoff voting, and strict campaign finance rules.....

...And a smaller population than Mesa, AZ. Of course such a country will be quieter. I'm about to get a firsthand look, now that I will be hiking there next spring.

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Rei]

What do you call "spring"? Be aware that a lot of the highlands will be closed. Don't be one of those stupid people who sees a closed road and thinks, "Meh, I'll get through". Likewise don't try to drive on a highlands road in a regular car. You will not make it. People try every year. Never drive offroad; you'll have people very mad at you. Lastly, while you technically can legally wildcamp, wildharvest, and hike anywhere within limits (no crossing fences, no ignoring posted signs, not near houses, not near campsites, not in national parks), if you plan to go somewhere on private property, it's a courtesy to let the owner know.

Oh, a couple more "stupid tourist things".... don't light a lava field on fire by trying to burn your own poo to hide it. Don't ignore the Giant Posted Rogue Wave Signs at Reynisfjara and go up to the water to try to become the next person on the casualty list. Don't stand on the edge of hot springs, because in case you didn't notice, that's boiling water with no easy way out and the edges are wet unstable clay being eaten away from underneath. Don't go wandering off onto a glacier without someone experienced with you - especially with an icefall, you'll just dissapear into a crevase and if you're lucky people will find your remains years later.

As for the not dangerous but still be aware of... if you're hiking on less touristy places, where the trail may be little to nonexistant, be aware that Iceland has lots of marshy areas. Try not to get yourself stuck in the middle of one. When hiking in canyons, be aware that our canyons may start out with a nice hikeable area by the river at the bottom, but then eventually it'll pin you up between the wall and deep running water, and you'll have to choose between either turning back, taking your chances in the (freezing) water, or climbing your way out of the canyon. The upper rims are always the easier route. Oh, and keep a charged cell phone. Our rescue services are excellent and cell phone coverage surprisingly good (although if you need a rescue because you were acting like an idiot, don't expect them to be happy with you ;) )

If you're a geology fan, keep your eyes out; Iceland has some great geology and you can find, depending on the area, zeolites, quartz, iceland spar, pyrite, opal, chalcedony, and a number of other neat things. Some places are like straight out of a geology textbook, with volcanoes that have been ripped in half so you can see the inner structure.

Oh, and if you have questions about places to go, just ask. If you really want obscure places, try this site.

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Applehu Akbar]

Thanks for the detail on conditions. I will be on a guided hike program near the end of May, staying in the south, and as in NZ nothing on glacier ice. The road advice sounds a lot like our northern Arizona advice, where bringing a hiking party in on the forest roads network requires a main battle SUV. We will be seeing lots of geothermal features but the guide knows where we can safely stand.

You have canyon flash floods too? This is one of our favorite ways of getting rid of tourists. And yes, a lot of what I will be coming to see will be the geology. Thingvellir, where you can actually see the Mid-Atlantic Ridge ripping apart, for one.

Re: imagine the u.s.

[Rei]

Wow, where to even start?

  * "Foreigners" can't vote, only citizens
  * Citizenship takes 7 years
  * Temporary workers can't get it, only permanent
  * Foreign workers work more and pay more in taxes
  * Ef (th)à ert Ãslendingur þà farÃu à rassgat.

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Rei]

No, we don't usually get flash floods (except volcanic flash floods, which are HUGE ("Larger than the Amazon river"-level huge), but thankfully rare ;) ). Iceland is wet, not desert (well, some parts in the north/northeast are borderline desert due to rainshadowing, but not most of the country). The main problem with walking at the bottom of canyons is just finding yourself at a dead-end after having walked a good ways - it almost invariably happens if the canyon is deep / steep enough. The canyon continues, but you have cliffs and water blocking your way.

"South" is a pretty broad area. But if it's a guided tour, then you don't need tips :) I'm betting you're doing Landmannalaugar, including Fimmvörðuháls; it's our most traveled hiking trail.

Technically the mid-Atlantic ridge runs across the whole country (and branches; It's not a single straight line, but parallel curvy / branching lines), but ingvellir is indeed the most popular place to see it. But expect tourists ;). And don't be like the idiot who jumped naked into one of the water-filled rifts as a dare. The water is just above the freezing temperature, meaning you'll quickly lose muscle strength, and it's difficult to get out even in good circumstances.

Re:imagine the u.s.

[Applehu Akbar]

Yes, Landmannalaugar is on the itinerary. Also Jökulsárlón, Skaftafell, Gullfoss, Fjardargljufur, Systrastapi and Systrafoss. There will also be a day at a geothermal power plant. In all, it's nerd heaven.

Re:Anti-establishment

[Kjella]

I don't think many people in the US are pro-establishment right now; even those who are voting for Clinton dislike that aspect of her.

When it comes to the final election it seems to be almost every aspect is irrelevant. If they made it through the primaries the two reasons for voting are (D) and (R), they could make Nixon and Bozo the clown the candidates and people would vote for them. Oh wait, they did... And to be honest, I hope the clown wins because he'll have the most problems convincing Congress to play along so despite the entertainment I doubt he'll be able to do too much damage as commander-in-chief. And it'd give Bernie or someone else the chance to try again in four more years, if Clinton wins now she'll almost automatically be the candidate next time too. At least the first female President will be good for equality, otherwise I don't see much positive about it.

I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[Deliveranc3]

about the Pirate Party. The ideal of a copyright free country must be a dream for inventors and tinkers.

Re:I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[Anonymous Coward]

The Icelandic Pirate Party aren't exactly arguing for abolishing copyright. They just want to reform it a bit-

And while the election is done with we have yet to see if they will be part of the government or the opposition.

Re:I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[Rei]

Copyright reform isn't really a major issue for us, although it is something we support. There's much bigger issues on hand. Namely, there's a lot of issues that the public overwhelmingly supports - 65-85% - that the conservatives have derailed. Pirates are all about giving power to the citizenry. There's also a huge amount of corruption that desperately needs to be taken on.

Re:I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[Troed]

Luckily the Swedish PP platform says 5 years, renewable three times 5 years each if you register your works in a database. (This to avoid orphaned works).

20 years should be enough even for you.

Re:I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[jonwil]

As a software developer (who has released a lot of personal open source code as well as writing stuff that people paid me to write) I can see that 20 years is plenty.

Any open source software that is 20 years old is unlikely to be of value today (Linux may be 20 years old but I doubt anyone is going to be using 20 year old code anymore, they will be using recent source trees that are a lot newer than that)

Re:I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[jpatters]

Is your latest version more than five years old?

Each update you do will have new code, which would be a new copyright. The freeloaders would have to use a five year old version.

This is a good incentive for you to keep working.

Re: I hope the Slashdot community becomes educated

[AvitarX]

Wow, you went five years from public beta to release without updating anything? Why did you wait so long?

Re:Anti-establishment

[jbn-o]

They are flipping around—a clear sign that Hillary Clinton is a poor candidate for office, just like she was against Sen. Obama 8 years ago. As much as she and her supporters insist Trump is more dangerous and must be defeated, she has never managed to establish the commanding lead over Trump she needs to make it clear the country believes that rhetoric.

However, as much as Jill Stein presents a cogent, ethical, and realistic set of policy changes, I doubt the Green Party will win enough electoral votes to carry any state let alone the US election. The establishment candidate for US president, Hillary Clinton, is part of the bipartisan agreement to lock Stein out for being not popular enough (an anti-competitive excuse offered to the public as if popularity should be a consideration at all, rather than allowing every candidate on enough ballots in enough states to theoretically win into those privately-controlled so-called "debates"). Clinton knows that. Just as when she ran against Obama and Sanders her team knows if anyone is perceived running to the left of her, she'll lose. Therefore Clinton has to use whatever resources are available to her (legal, ethical, or not) to make sure progressive candidates are either removed from the race or largely unheard from and minimized in the corporate-friendly press (including every comedy news program and popular commentary show likely to be seen/heard by young voters). This leaves her to run against the only allowable competition, the Republicans, and try to get them to prop up a candidate from her short list (as listed in the leaked Podesta emails) where she can try to come out looking progressive by comparison to people who think emotionally rather than critically.

The Democrats & Republicans agree in large part on almost all the big money issues of the day. It's a safe bet either Trump or Clinton will become the next US President. With that the US can look forward to more exploitative economic policy at home and abroad via the TPP including treating women & girls horribly despite Clinton's alleged feminism or anti-Trump talk (and repeated replays of his sexist comments). This includes encouraging an atmosphere of belittlement and molestation in small numbers in the case of Trump and his sexist commentary, and killing them by the thousands in the case of Clinton and her many wars of aggression making her a war criminal even now. Trump is the less effective evil because he's nowhere near as belligerent as Clinton. But the Democrats and Republicans continue to be far more alike than different, similar enough that it's not worth voting for either of them.

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[Rei]

Meh, thanks to forestry efforts we'll probably be self-sufficient on lumber in a decade or two. We're never going to win any awards for forestry extent, but we do have some lovely ones.

Then again, there is the old joke that every person in Iceland over the age of six knows.

Q: "How do you find your way out of an Icelandic forest?"
A: "Stand up."

Re:Anti-establishment

[Opportunist]

Well, Bernie had way more support than a sixth of the people. Sadly, in a first-past-the-post world this means jack shit.

Re:Let me know when they get elected somewhere mea

[Rei]

Let me know when Minnesota has a seat in the UN, is a member of NATO (aka, their consent required for decisionmaking), has an EEZ that takes up half the area between Norway and Greenland, etc.

There are advantages to being a nation, even a small one.

Re:Anti-establishment

[phantomfive]

Oh wait you meant Trump? Nobody's actually accused him of rape.

Someone has accused him of that.

Re: Let me know when they get elected somewhere me

[Rei]

You know we had three Cod Wars with the UK... and won each time, despite them being vastly larger, right? In each case, it was by virtue of Iceland being a country. The third time was the most extreme - the UK sent two dozen frigates, versus Iceland's piddly couple of coastguard vessels Iceland ultimately won by threatening to give the NATO base at Keflavík to the Soviets, causing the US to pressure the UK.

Think that would fly in Minnesota during a dispute? Being a nation gives an entity asymmetric bargaining power. Certain aspects of power are based on economic or military might, while others are based simply on status and sovereignty. Iceland's ability to defeat the UK in the Cod Wars is considered a textbook example of expression of soft power. On the international stage, when claims between two nations are evaluated on their merits in non-military, non-economic contexts, both entities are treated as being on equal footing, and their arguments are listened to equally. More powerful nations may try to apply hard power, but that doesn't always play out well in a modern multipolar world; you can end up looking like a bully and losing out in other fields that make the overall cost not worth the effort.

As for Iceland, what's wrong with it? Iceland's name is ~1150 years old, how old is your country's name?

Re:Anti-establishment

[penguinoid]

Polls are almost always right.

Not the most "newsworthy" ones -- especially when they show a surprising victory for their favored politician.

I'm not after quicker change

[rsilvergun]

I'm after less corporate and big money influence. Our senate, electoral college and constitution aren't there to slow change, they're there to keep the poor from voting themselves money from the wealthy landowner class.

I'd also completely disagree with your assertion that gov't sucks. Gov't, like most things, is exactly what you put into it. Below a certain level of material wealth everything sucks. Above that point (which we've been at for years) it's up to you and me.

Iceland once had a good thing going...

[HanzoSpam]

they should have kept it.

Re:Iceland once had a good thing going...

[Rei]

Seriously, you Libertarian nuts are praising the situation that led to the Sturlung era , and even the Sturlung era itself, of all things? The bloody Age of Terror, which led to Iceland's complete collapse and takeover by Norway? That's what you want society to become? Except with guns this time around? Why not just say, "Vote Libertarian: Because Turning The World Into A Mad-Max Post-Apocalyptic Wasteland Sounds Like Fun!"

Re:Anti-establishment

[rockout]

An average of the polls in 538's model not only predicted the results of the last two elections, it predicted the outcomes in 49 of 50 (2008) and 50 of 50 (2012) states correctly. When your "gut feeling poll" reaches an accuracy level of 99%, call me. Until then, shut up with your paranoid "polls are bullshit" wishful thinking. This is a site that generally attracts people that understand math. You may be looking for foxnews.com's comment section.

Re:Anti-establishment

[murdocj]

I guess if you don't care about health care, women's rights, equality under the law, etc, then yeah, I guess you wouldn't see any difference between the candidates.

Re:Anti-establishment

[murdocj]

Yeah i guess non-consensual grabbing women by their pussy isn't considered rape... or wait, actually, I'm pretty sure it is.

Re: Let me know when they get elected somewhere m

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please, a fisheries dispute is a war? No, try fucking Argentina, they fought a war. You just wigged out over trawling rights. Which you are lucky they decided it was cheaper to give away.

Seriously, you'd have lost if they'd scheduled a test match with Liverpool and gave all their hooligans free plane tickets.

But you'd better be careful you don't do the same thing to your fisheries that you did to your forests.

Otherwise, the only victim of your wars was Arthur Treacher, they had to switch from Cod to pollack, and ended up merged with Nathan's.

Couldn't make it on his own any more. Your greed killed him. I suppose that makes you feel like a hero.

But have you considered a nickname? Like the Land of a Thousand Volcanoes? Now that'll bring in lots of tourists. Maybe start sacrificing virgins to Surtur. Even Hawaii does it better. They have had no less than four TV series. And the Brady Bunch visited.

What do you have? Half an arc in Game of Thrones?

Man, at least you won't be completely be flooded when the Ice caps melt.

Then you will really need a new name. The Country that was Formerly Iceland is a terrible choice.

Re:Anti-establishment

[Gussington]

Oddly enough, the anti-establishment candidates here in the US (Bernie and Trump) are also hugely popular,

Trump is not Anti-establishment at all. He might say that to win over stupid people too dumb to actually think about it, but what he really is for more extreme establishment than even the current system.
Anti-establishment means transferring more power from the elite establishment to the people. Trump is about transferring more power from the elite establishment to himself. He's taking it even further away from the people, which is why the comparisons to Hitler. He is extreme authoritarian which mean the power shifts from the 1% to simply 1 man, that is the very worst kind of establishment model there is.
Do not compare Trump with Bernie, they are polar opposites of the spectrum.

Re:Anti-establishment

[penguinoid]

Just to note, the "accurate" polls available in your first link are not available until November 6 (Final Gallup Poll seems to be 2 days before the election)... and are wildly inaccurate if you measure by predicted victory margin (which would be the most interesting aspect on the topic of election), rather than by percentage of support (just predicting 50% support would be almost as accurate). ... and that's for Gallup polls, rather than talking head polls.

Still, they did more often than not correctly predict the winner.

Re:Anti-establishment

[penguinoid]

No, it is most definitely not a mere average of polls. It's a weighted average, and almost every poll was given 0.00 weight. In most cases, that is to reflect the fact that "that was then, this is now" but in many others it is to reflect the fact that the authors of the poll were flaming idiots.

http://projects.fivethirtyeigh...

Re:Anti-establishment

[penguinoid]

To put it more accurately, the establishment hates Trump's guts, which, to many people, is a large portion of his appeal. And another portion of his supporters are from the "wrecking ball" theory of anti-establishment. And another group support him because they think Congress will block his every move.

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[K. S. Kyosuke]

So Iceland is green, and Greenland is full of ice? What depraved times do we live in!

"Pirate" Party?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Are we in the Carribean? Why is it not named the Viking Party, anyway?

Re:"Pirate" Party?

[Feral Nerd]

Are we in the Carribean? Why is it not named the Viking Party, anyway?

The word 'Viking' means something akin to 'maritime raider' in Scandinavian languages which makes it more or less synonymous with 'pirate' and I say more or less because vikings tended to be large amphibious raiding parties or even armies while pirates operated as single ships or small fleets. Your ship or village got robbed by pirates, your entire country could get invaded and occupied by Vikings. Unfortunately the word 'Viking' has also become synonymous with 'medieval Nordic person' so 'Pirate' party is a better name for that party. Calling Nordic people 'Vikings' is a bit like referring to all Americans as 'Hells Angels' or something. I'm avoiding the word 'Scandinavian' here because the hairsplitters will immediately point out that Scandinavians covers only Norwegians/Swedes and Danes to which I usually respond that Scandinavian comes from the Roman word Scandia, which is a name for Norway and Sweden which the Romans thought was an island they named (surprise, surprise...) Scandia. The Danes as far as the Romans were concerned were one of the backwaters of 'Germania Magna' and thus not 'Scandians' or 'Scandinavians'. The Icelanders have a better claim to calling themselves 'Scandinavians' than the Danes since most of their ancestors actually came from 'Scandia' with a significant sprinkling of Scots and Irish. All of this is useless trivia of course but I like to throw it out there because nothing pisses of hairsplitters more than when you hairsplit their hairsplitting..

Re:"Pirate" Party?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

The word 'Viking' means something akin to 'maritime raider' in Scandinavian languages which makes it more or less synonymous with 'pirate'

Which was kind of the point of my comment.

Re: "Pirate" Party?

[Rei]

The Icelandic name is PÃratapartýiÃ. "PÃrati" is not Icelandic for pirate (that's "sjÃræningur") and political party is not "partý" (it's "flokkur"). PÃrati is a reference to the international pirate movement and partý is "party" as in an event where you have fun.

Re:Anti-establishment

[jandersen]

As a complete outsider to the US elections, I shouldn't really offer my opinions, I suppose, but like a lot of the fiercer critics, I do love America, and it pains me to see the mess you guys are in.

I would invite people to take a step back from the furore and think a bit wider about the issues. The problem isn't just that you now have to choose between two unpalatable candidates; it is important that the US starts working again as a nation, both for its people (and here I mean all of its people, not just the favoured few), but it is also hugely important that America doesn't simply drop the ball, internationally. You may wish to disenagage from some of the too many duties you have taken on over the years in your quest for dominance, but there are different ways of doing so, and some could have devastating consequences, whereas other ways might be very advantageous. If Clinton and Trump really is all you have to choose from at this time, the sensible thing to do is to choose Clinton, who actually has a track record in the top of politics. Trump's bluster about "running the country like a business" simply isn't realistic. Firstly because a nation is vastly more complicated than a corporation, and of course, the States run on democracy, which a business doesn't. On top of that, Trump isn't really a good businessman; the fact that he makes a lot of money isn't a good indicator - if you start out with more money than you can squander quickly, then it is actually very hard not to make money, even if it all just sits in a bank account. A good businessman is one who constantly and creatively (as well as successfully) develops his business concept - as far as I know, Trump hasn't done much of that.

But America's problems run much deeper than having to choose the least bad president; somehow you have developed a culture where simple fact is invariably construed as "leftist" (at best) by those on the right, and "rightist" by those on the left, depending on their short term agenda, and the only thing you can't seem to find is a reliable, neutral view - at least originating from inside America. I remember a time, in my childhood (and that's a long time ago, let me tell you) when we all had to acknowledge America as the one, reliable source of facts that the rest of us tried to emulate, even if we didn't like the American Way. And then came the moronic agendas of the narrowminded, religious zealots that took over the debate to the extent that everybody in a public position must now pretend that they care deeply about "God", much to the detriment of truth and ironically, faith. And now, this kind of "faith" tries to dictate whether you are allowed to actually think clearly about real issues in almost all areas. And that, I think, is one of the fundamental problems that you have to solve.

It is not my place to tell you how to solve the problems, but I do suggest that your real enemy is not so much Clinton or Trump or even the political establishment as such - they are only consequences of the much more sinister problem of religious mind-control. Your enemy is stupid, bullying religion - those two adjectives are important: stupid and bullying. There are many intelligent ways to practise religion (or so I'm told, and it seems plausible), but insisting that a fistful of fables is the only Truth that reality must be bent to fit, is stupid. And of course, intelligent practitioners of religion don't go around trying to bully people into closing their eyes to common sense - they don't need to, because they are not scared of reality, and they know that the Bible is just a bunch of stories that were never meant to be taken at face value. So, there you have it: if you want to make America great again, topple the sick establishment and so on, start with stupid, bullying religion and make clear, fact-based debate mainstream again.

Re: Arrrrrrrr

[Rei]

We've got no shortage of ice either ;)

Re: Anti-establishment

[Rei]

The fact that out government is corrupt isn't up for debate. The last term has been one long stream of selling off state assets to friends and family of politicians at a fraction of their market value, media buyouts (and purges of critical journalists) with background money deals, routing money through shell companies in Panama, etc.

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[KiloByte]

So Iceland is green, and Greenland is full of ice? What depraved times do we live in!

Actually, the naming of Greenland was an intentional lie by Erik the Red to make it sound better for settlers he tried to recruit. He lived in 10th century.

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[roger_that]

Rei, I spent 4 years in Iceland thirty years ago, and I have been in some of those forests. At that time, they could have been measured in square yards, and I don't think any of the trees were over 15 feet tall, most being under 5 feet tall. I am glad to hear that some reforestation is being done, and I hope it goes well, but most of the trees that (used to be) planted there grow pretty slowly, so I don't see the "self-sufficient on lumber in a decade or two" claim as being accurate (but we can hope). I hope to get back over there one of these years....

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[Rei]

That's not exactly true either. The sagas say that he did pick the name because he wanted it to be appealing. But he wasn't exactly asking people to go settle on a glacier, either. "Grænland" was pastureland in the southwest that wasn't all that different from his home in Vestfirðir.

Re:Arrrrrrrr

[Rei]

An established sitka spruce here grows at about half a meter a year. So yes, the forests have grown quite a bit since then. And forestry efforts have significantly increased since then. Our largest tree is now 22 meters tall (72 feet). Even in Reykjavík we have some decent ones growing - for example, this is Öskjuhlíð, by Perlan. They're bigger / more extensive right outside of town, in Heiðmörk - althoug the biggest forests are in northeast Iceland (and the biggest trees in the south / southeast, where it's wettest and they grow fastest)

Re: Let me know when they get elected somewhere m

[Rei]

Oh please, a fisheries dispute is a war?

When they send frigates (hard power), and you defeat them with soft power? The discussion is about the power of nations versus states, and it's a clear demonstration of soft power that states do not have. A state can't just threaten to switch sides to the Soviets. A state can't get an even hearing in the UN or international legal institutions.

Seriously, you'd have lost if they'd scheduled a test match with Liverpool

Ahem.

Now that'll bring in lots of tourists.

Tourism here is growing faster than we know how to deal with it, thank you very much.

What do you have? Half an arc in Game of Thrones?

And about 200 other TV shows and movies - here's just a fraction. Iceland has turned into one of the major "overseas" destinations for TV and movie shoots - not only because of the diverse, "unusual" landscapes, but also because in the summer movie crews can film outdoor scenes 24-7 and thus shorten their production time.

Re: Let me know when they get elected somewhere me

[syntotic]

Iceland is not yet uncovering Excrement Colored Anthropoids turned pink with either white hair or in baldness passing as Nordics, right? Or just about to start hunting the strays?

Re:Anti-establishment

[Bert64]

Exactly, he boasted that they would willingly let him do that.. If they willingly do it then it's consensual rather than rape.